Advanced Nutrients

Bdogg

New Member
Advanced Nutrients. So many people love them and so many people hate them. There is no other nutrient company so divisive. I think what most people do not know or have forgotten that it is actually illegal for companies to list a lot of ingredients that they use in their nutrients. You can list N-P-K, some secondaries (calcium, magnesium) and micros (iron), and some random things like humic acid or beneficial bacterias if they are listed on the bottle as, "non plant food ingredients." If everyone knew all the different things that Advanced Nutrients puts into their nutes compared to say General Hydroponics or Technaflora or Canna, all lot more people would love Advanced. I heard someone say on this forum that you shouldn't but Bud Candy because all it lists on its bottle for ingredients is Magnesium Sulfate and that Magnesium Sulfate is just epsom salts, therefore Bud Candy is just epsom salts and molasses. This is ludicrous. First of all Advanced uses complex carbohydrates that are also in CarboLoad that no other company uses, not cheap molasses. Moreover, there are all sorts of amino acids, proteins, botanical extracts, terpenes that are in Bud Candy but that they are not legally allowed to list on the bottle. They use humic and fulvic acids in a lot of their ingredients and stuff that i can neither pronounce, spell, or describe because I am not a chemist. When companies can only list a few things then it seems as thought Advanced Nutrient's chems are just like any one else's but more expensive. Of course this is what General Hydroponics wants and why they continue to control laws over labeling of nutrients to sway in their favor. They know their ingredients cannot compete with Advanced Nutrients so they make sure that the purchasing public is kept in the dark on the truth of what they are buying. Moreover Advanced uses only pharmaceutical grade materials. Something that almost no other company does, (Bloom by Hydro International does now also but they are a little organic for my taste). So the magnesium sulfate they use is not the same magnesium sulfate that makes up epsom salt or is found in other companies nutrients. I personally like Advanced a lot. They are really the only company that makes nutrients for the plants we grow and caters to the medical marijuana community. They have been kicked out of all the major grow shows ran by Sun Systems, General Hydroponic, Maximum Yield and the rest of the establishment. They released a free magazine Rosebud that was the only indoor gardening magazine that appealed to the marijuana grower. You may not like their nutes, you may think they are overpriced, but regardless, Advanced deserves respect for the isolated stand they have taken for the indoor growing and marijuana community. And I wish people in this community would give a little more props for the only company that speaks the truth about marijuana, makes nutrients designed to grow marijuana, and has been ostracized by the other hydro businesses for their views and for their actions. Well thats my little diatribe.
p.s. What other nutrient company would actually tell you to buy a chem made by the competition. It's true, Big Mike from Advanced actually tells growers to buy Roots Excelurator by House and Garden. A company not affiliated with Advanced Nutrients at all. Roots Excel is simply the best rooting chem on the market. Advanced knows this and they told the growing community this fact and pulled their own competing comparable chem until they could reformulate it and make it better. Why? Because whats good for the goose is good for the gander as my grandfather says. When Advanced customers use Roots Excel their gardens do better and the Advanced chems work better and look better to said gardener and he is more likely to keep gardening and buying from Advanced. Advanced Nutrients understands this business philosophy that companies like General Hydroponics does not.
p.p.s. What is a gander? And why is the goose good for it?
 
I only grow organic, but I would be interested in a link to the law that makes it illegal for them to list all the ingredients. I beleive you, but it's usually the opposite that is enforced.
 
im pretty sure this is also why botanicare dropped its "hydrogaurd" and started makeing "aquashield" its the EXACT same stuff, except, it doesnt list its ingredients on the bottle anymore.

apparently its becasue of issues crossing borders, they had to remove the names of the bacteria's in it.

maybe it makes it sound dangerous, like a biohazard.. lol
 
I only grow organic, but I would be interested in a link to the law that makes it illegal for them to list all the ingredients. I beleive you, but it's usually the opposite that is enforced.

Lots of organic nutrients from AN, just saying.

As for what I've learned about the labeling bit, read this:

YOU
 
I really don't have any links to support my claims but look around for the Agricultural Commisions websites as well as tons of articles written by Mike Straumetis (spelling?) from Advanced Nutrients. Read "Hydro Hijacking" and several articles he writes about the hydro industry in "Rosebud" magazine's website. He provides links I believe. The fact that the Hydro industry cannot list full ingredients is just sort of common knowledge for people in deep in the Hydro game. Mike lists an old Big Bud bottle with all the L-Amino acids listed and then he lists the bottle he was forced to release after the original bottle was forced off the market. Also Hydroplex by Botanicare just a few months ago listed about 50 ingredients. Now it lists about 5. Same stuff... different label. And your right BudBro this is the exact opposite of what we are used to with food labels, drug labels, etc. But I gave the reasons for why this goes on. Established old school companies like Gen Hydro rely on the current labeling laws to stay competetive.
 
It's all good, like I said, I grow organic and use supersoil, so no nutes or very little is required for me personally. I have an aquaintance that blogs about stupid politicians and stupid laws and I gave him the heads up. If there is a stupid law out there, he'll find it, lol!!!
 
Advanced Nutrients. So many people love them and so many people hate them.

Products are (probably) ok. The rest of the company is the stuff of nightmares, lol. So are the prices. But I understand that it takes a lot of income to keep such a monstrous ad campaign going non-stop.

I think what most people do not know or have forgotten that it is actually illegal for companies to list a lot of ingredients that they use in their nutrients.

Technically, the companies can list any ingredient they want to. They just have to prove that it's a useful plant nutrient. Yes, that costs money since it must be an independent kind of thing (IOW, you can't just submit a statement that your "boys in back" determined it to be so). As to why Mike doesn't do this... Maybe the monetary outlay and income received from being able to advertise (and advertise... and advertise) how he is "getting shafted" is much better than the money he'd spend on having his products tested by recognized scientific bodies.

I would like to see that rule improved to the extent that ALL ingredients in a product must be listed on the label. I'd like to see a model where ingredients which haven't been scientifically determined to be useful include a statement to that effect, like dietary supplements have. That way, the customer can decide for him/herself whether the ingredients are useful or whether they are snake oil.

Big Mike likes to rant about the AAPFCO and how he would be forced to create 107 different labels for each product in order to disclose as much information as possible. He does, however, regularly fail to admit "little things," lol - such as the fact that the AAPFCO has been trying for years to get states to standardize their regulations so that things would be the same in all 50 states. (I occasionally wonder why he hasn't been sued. Maybe it's a mark of the amount of credibility - or lack thereof - that those other companies grant him, I really don't know.)


I personally like Advanced a lot.

That's readily apparent. But you shouldn't let that color your perceptions.

They are really the only company that makes nutrients for the plants we grow

Well...

Except for General Hydroponics, which started because the owner was growing cannabis in soil on his back porch way back when and one of the scientists at the company he worked at asked, "Why aren't you growing them with hydroponics?" (And they proceeded to do just that.)

And then there's Blue Planet Nutrients (a trusted sponsor, BtW). Corey not only makes his products with the cannabis gardener in mind, he is regularly here in the forums, helping people out and improving his products. Have you ever seen one of his labels? That's not lettuce in the background, lol (and those frogs' eyes are suspiciously red...).

BlueMax_Grow_front_.JPG


And... all the other nutrient companies. Just because a manufacturer doesn't name their products with catchy names such as "Bud Candy" doesn't mean that they aren't appropriate for growing cannabis - it just means that they cater to a wider audience, many of whom would be distressed by a product that is advertised for cannabis (or, at least, in such an "in your face" way as AN does).

They released a free magazine Rosebud that was the only indoor gardening magazine that appealed to the marijuana grower.

Yeah, but since it's a wholly-owned mouthpiece for Big Mike which often doesn't list sources for the articles, it does come up somewhat short in the credibility department.

BtW, is it true that he named it Rosebud because of the way a certain piece of his customers' anatomy looks after entering into a customer/supplier relationship with him, or is that just a vicious rumor spread by his competitors when they have nothing of substance to fight with?

Ok, that was uncalled for, lol. I just wanted to see what it was like to speak using Mike's way. I didn't really get anything out of it. <SHRUGS> Maybe if there was a dollar to be made, I would.

p.s. What other nutrient company would actually tell you to buy a chem made by the competition.

I've been told twice by representatives of nutrient companies that I didn't need to purchase their Ca/Mg products when I used tap water, that epsom salt would supply the magnesium and my water would supply the calcium. Does that count?

Of course, having done so, those companies did not immediately rush right out and create a huge advertising campaign shouting to the world that they did so. Maybe that's because they've got some sort of hidden agenda... or because the owners of those companies haven't spent their entire lives in the advertising/marketing field.


What is a gander? And why is the goose good for it?

A male goose.

And why is the goose good for it?

See: Birds. And: Bees.
 
in response to tortured..

to be fair, in my own localized non documented experiments, of all the nutrients i have tried, AN was by far the easiest to use,(in the sense of measuring ratios, and not needing more additives) and provided me with the best results.
I have NOT tried anything apart from AN's 3 part, and i refuse to buy the (in my eyes) overpriced additives, as i see no need to do so.

now.. with that said, i havent tried blue planet, and i would absolutely love to. With all the positive feedback on the product, i have no doubt in my mind that i would get great results.

my only problem, is i would rather buy locally from my normal store, and not order online. The guy at the store, IS a very outgoing guy, and always brings in products that i request. He knows i wont make him order garbage that he cant sell. So, perhaps ill try to sweet talk him into bringing in a basic line of BPN, and see how it goes.

i see many people bash AN, and its mostly due to them not liking big mike. or thinking he's "sketchy" . I have never met the guy, and for all i know, he might be a big phoney/sketchy character, who knows. But, what i do know, is AN has given me some killer bud, at a good price. (while using strictly the 3 part)
 
I have read where lots and lots of people had success with the AN line.

And the expense... Well, when one is growing a product that one would have to spend lots of money to buy, it does mean that one still comes out ahead.

Long as it works for you and you're happy about it.

As for BPN nutes, I don't know if they are available in stores yet or not. But the owner/formulator is a member here.

Here are a couple of threads you can read and - if you like - contact Corey.
https://www.420magazine.com/community/threads/blue-planet-nutrients-special.144152/
https://www.420magazine.com/community/threads/free-nutrients.150519/


 
Why all this talk about advanced nutrients? Any reputable nutrient company will give you spectacular results, the difference is in the cost.

I'm surprised to see nobody talking about Dyna-Gro, another forum I visit has loads of journals using Dyna-gro with fantastic results. A member named Homebrewer even does side by side testing with Dyna-gro and other nutrient companies.

The reason I'm mentioning Dyna-gro is for several reasons actually
- Most concentrated (2-5ml per gallon)
- Very Inexpensive
- Popular among Commercial farmers (available in 8oz to 55 Gallons)
- Contains all 10 essential micronutrients & 6 Macronutrients
- Check out their website, very straightforward, has analysis of all 16 Micro & Macro nutrients
 
The ratio of urea nitrogen to ammoniacal/nitrate nitrogen is pretty high with Dyna Grow, isn't it?

Other than that, I haven't heard any horror stories or anything.

EDIT: It's mentioned in a few threads here.

The OP in this thread recommended it:
What Nutrients Should I Use? / How much Nutrient Should I Use?

and it was tested along with several other brands in this thread:
A top nutrient study: Which is the best? Produces most?
The tester stated it was a "simple and effective fertilizer," (Test #6) but then went on to state "The final product was more generic than any other test and although potent, the dried product was my least favorite. As with many chemical/synthetics Brix levels were very low." Although he did reiterate that it was simple to use for people who place more value on that aspect of their nutrients.

EDIT #2: I just remembered reading that DG was kind of high in P and low in K for growing cannabis. IDK personally, have never tried it. Never tried House & Garden nutrients, either, which are supposed to be good for cannabis. I suppose most of them are if one learns the ins and outs of the particular product (and the strain(s) that one is growing).
 
The ratio of urea nitrogen to ammoniacal/nitrate nitrogen is pretty high with Dyna Grow, isn't it?

Other than that, I haven't heard any horror stories or anything.

EDIT: It's mentioned in a few threads here.

The OP in this thread recommended it:
What Nutrients Should I Use? / How much Nutrient Should I Use?

and it was tested along with several other brands in this thread:
A top nutrient study: Which is the best? Produces most?
The tester stated it was a "simple and effective fertilizer," (Test #6) but then went on to state "The final product was more generic than any other test and although potent, the dried product was my least favorite. As with many chemical/synthetics Brix levels were very low." Although he did reiterate that it was simple to use for people who place more value on that aspect of their nutrients.

EDIT #2: I just remembered reading that DG was kind of high in P and low in K for growing cannabis. IDK personally, have never tried it. Never tried House & Garden nutrients, either, which are supposed to be good for cannabis. I suppose most of them are if one learns the ins and outs of the particular product (and the strain(s) that one is growing).

Personally i'm not too familiar with urea nitrogen but I think I recall seeing the same thing about AN if i'm not mistaken. If you look at the journals by homebrewer you can see testing on cannabis. He compares DG to others like GH, and Advanced connoisseur. He tests them in things like concentration, ph stability, and obvious things like vigor and yield. Dyna Gro proved to be the most concentrated and the most ph stable, these were however in rockwools. He continues to use DG because the tests convinced him they were the best bang for the buck. He also uses their supplement protekt 0-0-3, it's a potassium silicon solution. I tried it out because a bottle of protekt was $12 and the Dyna-gro was $20.

I just grow for personal so I'm trying to steer away from synthetics. except for maybe my DWC bucket. :cheesygrinsmiley:

I'm running BPN's organic line w/coco and Aerated teas/foliars for the first time this go to venture into the organic world and experience firsthand if I can tell the difference.
 
I know what a gander is. Stupid joke. Although for the longest time I always kind of assumed a gander was a flock of geese. The saying makes more sense that way. You know, like whats good for one goose is good for all the geese. Good to see the thread has heated up a bit. Not one response for days... then a bunch. Anyway, I certainly like AN's politics more than I like their nutrients. I use Bud Ignitor, and Overdrive. They are the best in their categories by far. No Big Bud because I think Hydroplex is just as good but half the price and I use CarboLoad Powder because its really one of a kind and reasonably priced. As far as their other products go I'd use them all if they were free, you know what I mean. But I think its silly to pay so much for things like potassium silicate, fulvic acid, OTC/amino acid/carbohydrate etc. etc. When potassium silicate is potassium silicate (Grotek for cheap but good nutes), I make my own fulvic acid at 7% strength most fulvic acids like Diamond Nectar from General Hydroponics are only .01 % strength. (who's the real hip-off artist Tortured Soul, the company that charges 17$ a liter for fulvic acid at .01% strength or the company that charges 27$ for fulvic acid at .37% strength and is of much higher quality in general?) I could give an entire list of all the nutrients and organic foliars, outdoor organic soil amendements, I use... blah blah blah. I'm not going to. Needless to say, I use a lot of stuff by a lot of different companies and even use General Organics for fish hydrolysate and organic Cal-Mag for outdoor and compost teas. Although I do not like giving them my money, the plants come first. I even use Sun System hoods despite my hatred for that company. You see Tortured Soul I don't let my opinions color my actions that much ; ). Sure I have my opinions. Saturator by Dutch Masters is a must have for any foliar application, Hygrozyme is better than any other enzyme formula, period, Bloom Foliar A & B will forever get rid of even a thought of powder mildew, and I get worse results when I use any other ripening formula other than Overdrive. It is in the top three of every hydro stores sales in the surrounding 50 miles for a reason. However, none of these things matter. People have their opinions. I think that the thing to keep in mind regarding companies like General Hydroponics and Advanced Nutrients is this. General Hydroponics relies on the status quo and holds back progress for their own gain and Advanced Nutrients pushes forward progress for guess what? Their own gain. Gen Hydro would never want all the ingredients to be listed on their bottle, because then companies not as established would begin to take over their market share. And Tortured Soul is right about the fact that Advanced Nutrients is not the only company pushing for cannabis rights and catering to the medical grower but they are, by far, the biggest company to do so. And are you serious? Your actually going to tell me that General Hydroponics supports medical growers and creates nutes for the cannabis grower? You are clearly far too well informed to push that kind of B.S. Why don't you give General Hydroponics a call and invite them to your new local Cannabis Cup, (Advanced Nutrients is a sponsor for the High Times Cup's all over the world; why? to make money of course. At least they put their money where their mouth is and support the people who support them. Where do you think General Hydroponics would be without the cannabis grower? Do they admit it? No. Do they cater to the community that made them who they are? No. Do they even acknowledge that community exists? Hardly. They make chems called Floramato and flavor their nutes with flavors that are as far from any cannabis flavor they could get, Pina Colada, Banana, Pineapple. You see, its even subtle, things like nutrient flavors (which are inherently B.S. anyway) Botanicare releases their Sweet line to align with cannabis strains. Sweet Citrus for O.G.'s, Diesel's, Skunks, etc., Sweet Grape for purples, Sweet Berry for Blueberries and other indica dominants. What strain are you going to match Pina Colada with?) better yet, see if they'll sponsor your legalization rally. Let me know their response. Its companies like Sun System and General Hydro that ban Advanced Nutrients from their catalogue, magazines, and trade shows. Not the other way around. What are they so afraid of exactly? Oh wait I know. Their afraid of advertising a nute made by AN called Kushy Kush, their afraid of the stand that AN takes on Cannabis issues. What I'm saying is that I want to hear Tortured Soul's opinion on Cannabis issues. What he thinks about companies like Gen Hydro and Sun Systems and their take on Cannabis rights and the fact that they force all the other hydro companies to adopt their ways or they will ban them from their trade shows, not let them advertise in Maximum Yield, kick them out of their catalogues, and destroy their business. You may think Big Mike is a real show off, egotist (he probably is, I mean he calls Gen Hydro and Sun Systems executives the Good Ol' Boys), you may think AN's nutes are overpriced (probably are), you may think they rush into too many markets, (have you seen their version of a TrimPro Rotor? The Samurai? It's horrible... and their fans are lucky to work when you get them, much less a week, or a month, or a year later), you may even think their chems are garbage, (I disagree, except for their nutrient teas, not only overpriced, I got 2.5 gallons of grow and bloom each for free and threw them away, didn't even give them away, threw them away) but how can you dispute the stand they take on Cannabis and how can you dispute the way in which Gen Hydro and Sun have turned their backs on the cannabis community who made them rich? Sun System once released a bunch of 1/4 inch hosing that had some sort of weird chemical in the plastic that killed cannabis. What happened when they were confronted by a medical co-op in Cali that proved this chemical was in the plastic and that it killed over 250,000 $ in crops. Sun said they would replace the cost of the tubing itself but not the crop since it was federally illegal to grow cannabis anyway. If you want to go around trumpeting the B.S. laws in this country go become a D.E.A. agent. Better yet, go work for Gen Hydro.
 
One more thing. You find me a person that both writes for Maximum Yield and also High Times. Because I know of a person that writes for both Rosebud and High Times. Erik Biksa.
 
+1 on the House and Garden their stuff is the bomb and you never see them pushing their stuff in add's and stuff. you either like it and know about it or well you don't. They also don't have a whole lot in their line up either and you don't need lots of bottles of supplements. The only thing that changes is the A&B from hydro,CoCoir,dirt and so on all the same supplements. They are on the higher price side as far as things go and you might be able to get the same or better results with other brand or mix and match your own line but for simplicity and great results i chose House and Garden
 
Yeah. I would say House and Garden might just be the most expensive line out their. Amino Treatment or whatever its called, Root Excel, Shooting Powder, Top Load, all crazy expensive but they are also the most concentrated nutrients on the market but despite that they are still crazy expensive. They have a beneficial bacteria called Bacto Force or something like that that is supposed to be the best beneficial by far by it is illegal in North American for some reason. Good stuff though. i only use Root Excel but I would use amino if I wanted to pay that much. But i don't.
 
I like how the haters are always referring to "the rest of the company" as being evil, scary, full of boogeymen, or whatever.

But there's never really anything more to it than that. And if you press them you'll get the usual "well someone I trust said so-and-so" or "if you do your homework you'll find such-and-such", but there's never any real evidence that backs it up.

It's like that old standby of conspiracy theorists - that the biggest evidence that a conspiracy theory is true is the complete lack of any evidence because if it were true they'd cover it up by destroying all the evidence. Which, of course, completely ignores the fact that if something were not true there would very likely be no evidence to say it was true.


And after you consider that many of the scary campfire stories that are allegedly about Advanced Nutrients are clearly and easily shown to be false and people have admitted to starting them specifically to damage AN, it doesn't do much to bolster the credibility of the other stories "someone I trust told me".
 
BtW, is it true that he named it Rosebud because of the way a certain piece of his customers' anatomy looks after entering into a customer/supplier relationship with him, or is that just a vicious rumor spread by his competitors when they have nothing of substance to fight with?

Ok, that was uncalled for, lol. I just wanted to see what it was like to speak using Mike's way. I didn't really get anything out of it. <SHRUGS> Maybe if there was a dollar to be made, I would.
This is just mean and nasty. Your credibility is shot

 
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