Advise for training plants for allowed Grow Box space?

[Southerncough]

There's some theories and such out there from seed shape to whatever, but the earliest way I've been able to tell is to put some cuttings in a cup of water under 12/12 light and see if they start to preflower (nothing elaborate, could be a CFL bulb in a cardboard box on a $5 timer). You may have a little better luck rooting the cuttings first because it is asking a lot (hormonally) for the tiny cutting to grow roots and start flowering at the same time, but IMO that's the absolute earliest way. Sometimes if it's a new strain I'll grow out the tiny plant and harvest a gram or two of bud as a fun little preview.
i.e. if the tiny plant produces the best herb I've ever had...I'm going to be sure to make more clones! but if it's "eh, okay" or a difficult plant to raise, etc. then I may grow out the others and move on.
For example I bought some seeds for a strain (by a well known commercial breeder) that was hailed to be "a grower's dream", a "super hardy plant" with "unbelievable massive yields" and it was the most finicky plant I've ever grown with medium yield of okay smoke. Maybe it was a bad seed or something but it definitely didn't live up to the hype that influenced me to add it to my shopping cart. I haven't bothered trying any of the other seeds from that batch, but I've also moved on to other, more hardy strains like northern lights, afghani, purple haze, and such.

I grow both reg and fem seeds so sometimes I have to sex them and sometimes I don't

 

[Seniorweeder]

There's some theories and such out there from seed shape to whatever, but the earliest way I've been able to tell is to put some cuttings in a cup of water under 12/12 light and see if they start to preflower (nothing elaborate, could be a CFL bulb in a cardboard box on a $5 timer). You may have a little better luck rooting the cuttings first because it is asking a lot (hormonally) for the tiny cutting to grow roots and start flowering at the same time, but IMO that's the absolute earliest way. Sometimes if it's a new strain I'll grow out the tiny plant and harvest a gram or two of bud as a fun little preview.
i.e. if the tiny plant produces the best herb I've ever had...I'm going to be sure to make more clones! but if it's "eh, okay" or a difficult plant to raise, etc. then I may grow out the others and move on.
For example I bought some seeds for a strain (by a well known commercial breeder) that was hailed to be "a grower's dream", a "super hardy plant" with "unbelievable massive yields" and it was the most finicky plant I've ever grown with medium yield of okay smoke. Maybe it was a bad seed or something but it definitely didn't live up to the hype that influenced me to add it to my shopping cart. I haven't bothered trying any of the other seeds from that batch, but I've also moved on to other, more hardy strains like northern lights, afghani, purple haze, and such.

I grow both reg and fem seeds so sometimes I have to sex them and sometimes I don't

Southerncough, your input never ceases to amaze me Bro. I have read a ton of stuff on early sex determination and not yet has anybody mentioned "cloning' for early preflowering, that to my unexperienced asssss is just pure genius. Dont know yet if I will try it or not, but it has me thinking hard on the subject buddy! Im having soooooo much fun with my first grow, it is all just a blast for my old asssss! Thanks again buddy!, If u like I will send pix of my girls shortly??? Bare with me, having Tequila and Beers tonite, so be aware of the type O's!

 

[Southerncough]

Thanks dude!
Cloning can be as difficult or easy as you want to make it. Some will tell you to buy an aeroponic chamber or build a bubble bucket or buy rockwool or plugs or peat pellets and a clone dome. All good methods, but if you want to start simple just put the cuttings in a cup of water! What I've found in my experience that the most critical secret to a successful clone is...drumroll...sharp cutting tools!
Sometimes I would have great success cloning and then less and less and less until one day I realized my garden shears were dull AF! I've used razor blades with success but then you gotta deal with disposing a bunch of razor blades not to mention i'm clumsy and have dropped them before. If you use scissors or shears or whatever make sure they're super sharp with a small file or something and your odds of success just went way up! Think about it, the stem is like a bundle of drinking straws and a dull cut crushes the straws, blocking their ability to move water and food to the top of the plant! Also, if you take cuttings after a heavy feeding of nitrogen they will take longer to root because the plant is loaded up with what it needs and will take longer to send roots looking for more food.

 

[Seniorweeder]

Dang buddy, everything U explain makes sooooo much perfect sense. U have the knowledge and a great way of relaying it. Ive seen vids on cloning and they all mention having sharp scissors but never say why that is so important. Makes perfect sense when u lay it out. What age or size should the Mother plant be, also can u tell me which limbs make the best ones? I am now sure I will be trying it for the heck of it. I actually have Peat Pellets that I use for germing, and have some cloning gel or root starter, what ever u call it. I also read where U spray the leaves of the clone and not wet the pellet so not to wash off the gel. I will be getting a CFL bulb, and making a small area to keep them in away from my grow box! I am talking about a screw in bulb, what is the best bulb, i.e. watts, lumens or what ever? Sorry to keep U so involved with me but U are awesome, I greatly appreciate your input friend!

 

[Southerncough]

fun stuff! First off, clones don't need a whole lot of light, just something consistent. I've done them under a reading lamp, cheap LED's, CFL, whatever. As long as it's not too intense and they get 12 hours of darkness is what really matters.
If you have an LED strip or bar light (real cheap) those work great. I've got one in my kitchen that can change colors from a warm yellow/white to a cool blue/white and one in between that was $15 on amazon, etc.
As for where to take the cuttings, many will argue to use the side branches others the top. If I'm planning to top the plant anyways, I'll take about a 6" cut off the top (if the plant's at least 12" tall and has established lower growth).
Some will say that the higher shoots will have more growth hormones, some will say that the lower shoots root faster, but really I feel what's most important is that the selected limb look and feel healthy and hearty, like it would grow agressively, etc.
If the top of your main stem is really rigid and thick, it will make a solid clone BUT could take a very long time to root.
If your lower stem is floppy and too skinny with wispy leaves and such, may root fast into a flimsy floppy plant...or just wilt. I like to select a branch in between that feels strong enough to stand up on its own but not so rigid that it won't root for a month.
I like to give them a goldilocks bend test. If they're really bendy and floppy, pass. If they won't bend at all, pass. BUT if I find one that bends some and then springs back, perfect!
The next few steps you want to do as quick as possible...
Make a 45 degree cut right above a leaf node on the branch to remove the "clone". Also make sure your tools are CLEAN!
If you can't get any alcohol to sterilize them with, at least waive them over a lighter for a few seconds on each blade.

Next, quickly strip all but the top two leaf sets from the cutting and put it straight into water. This is to minimize the risk of the open stem taking in air bubbles (very bad). Let them rest in the water for at least a few minutes while you work on other stuff, burn a doob, whatever. Remember if taking cuts from multiple plants to keep track of who's who. Label each cup to match corresponding plant with a sharpie, etc. Make sure your plants have distinctive labels as well! If I'm sexing 4 northern lights plants, each one will be tagged "NL1, NL2..." etc. and then the cups will get labeled the same.
From here you can get creative on the rest of the process. You can dip the cuttings in cloning gel, powder, whatever. Some even snap a leaf off an aloe plant and dip the clone in the goo inside it with great success! You can put them in plugs, you can put them in a cloning device, or just leave them in the cup! Some folks like to go straight from the plant into the cloning plug, but I like to let them rest a little in a cup of water and get a good drink first, it seems to help.

There is an additional step that most do...clipping the leaf tips. Often when you see pictures of cloning you'll notice that the leaf tips have been clipped. This helps reduce the amount of vegetation that the rootless plant has to support, saves space, and some say it tricks the plant into growing faster (i.e. its natural response to being eaten by animals is to send more growth hormones to the top).

To spray or not to spray...tis the question. I think it depends on your humidity. If the rooting gel gets wet it probably won't go too far away and even if some does, it's okay. Rooting gel isn't mandatory but can speed up the process by a few days in most cases. The real issue is keeping just enough humidity so that the clones won't dry out but not so much that they get moldy and die. You can buy a big plastic dome thing or cut the bottom off a coke bottle or even make a "tent" with a ziplock baggie. If you're supplying water to the stem via cup, aeroponic or bubble cloner the humidity dome will be overkill as they have enough from below.

Also, another tip for first time cloning... I've found that when their stems are supported my clones have a higher success rate because they're not fighting the weight of the leaves (while having no roots). Not everyone does this and it's not necessary, BUT for a newbie I'd recommend putting a crutch next to the stem like a stick, barbecue skewer, toothpick, etc for the cutting to lean on if it's struggling. I've even used a pipe cleaner and bent a little lasso around the stem (loosly). Not necessary if using a cloner because the top of the plant is supported by a collar while the stem dangles below.

Good luck!

 

[Seniorweeder]

Hey "Southern", ive had company the last few days. Man as always such great input friend. I have decided to top two plants tomorrow and to try to clone the tops, unless u say they are too young or small for that? They are about 8" tall and going into their 5th set of leaves or nodes. Im planning on cutting above the 4th node which will give me abut a 1" stem. I was planning on sticking them into Peat Pellets as I have had good luck germing in them, but then I got thinking about how they have been growing in Coco-Loco now for weeks, so would they be better in the neutral pellets or in cups of the fertilized Coco stuff to get the roots going? My box temp is a fairly steady 72/78, and the RH is between 55/65. My 600 watt LEDS are up about 30' from the floor now and I used them to germinate all my seedlings, so I will keep the clones in there for a couple weeks until I try doing the 12/12 lights for pre flower! I did some calculating tonight to figure how tall I will let these get before I go to 12/12 and its about 14", then I have another 14 or so inches of growth for flowering to leave me with 18" up to my lights. Im hoping with a one time topping and maybe trying some LST I can make it all work out!! "Please feel free to ad anything to my ideas for adjustment, and thanks a ton as always!