Kingsnake235
New Member
i am relatively new to this scene, but have been researching for CBD production as well, so i have read/learned a few things.
firstly, all the compounds are present in the plant and concentrated in the trichromes (i believe) - i read it is possible with some kits to test the ratios of the compounds even in veg state, so therefore, they are present throughout the plants.
however, to maximize the production of CBD for any particular strain, it is best to grow the plant as long as possible so that the trichromes turn amber from being white and the pistils turn orangey/dark - use a "loupe" or similar magnifier to look closely at the crystals - during this process you can lose a bit of THC content (many people harvest earlier, while the crystals are more white upto 50% amber, to get a "head high" from the increased THC levels) but it should ensure that your final product has maximized its potential CBD output.
also, after harvesting and drying, a proper cure can theoretically increase the potency of compounds present.
if you really want to extract the CBD after that, particularly for medicinal purposes, I would suggest making a tincture from either the cured buds or the trim/stems/etc, and using your bud in that way. I am planning to do this if i manage to make it through to flower for my first grow in progress, but haven't made my own yet.
Ingestion typically induces more of a body high, which is where the effects of CBD really kick in (called "couch lock") and i have found tincture to be an excellent way to get great pain relief and euphoria without the "stoned" feeling of smoking or eating cannabis. (haven't made my own, but I've tried some from a friend who makes it)
methods of drying, curing, and extraction are plentiful throughout the forum; i have rarely needed to look elsewhere for answers to my questions!
anyone, please feel free to correct me if i have erred.
good luck!
firstly, all the compounds are present in the plant and concentrated in the trichromes (i believe) - i read it is possible with some kits to test the ratios of the compounds even in veg state, so therefore, they are present throughout the plants.
however, to maximize the production of CBD for any particular strain, it is best to grow the plant as long as possible so that the trichromes turn amber from being white and the pistils turn orangey/dark - use a "loupe" or similar magnifier to look closely at the crystals - during this process you can lose a bit of THC content (many people harvest earlier, while the crystals are more white upto 50% amber, to get a "head high" from the increased THC levels) but it should ensure that your final product has maximized its potential CBD output.
also, after harvesting and drying, a proper cure can theoretically increase the potency of compounds present.
if you really want to extract the CBD after that, particularly for medicinal purposes, I would suggest making a tincture from either the cured buds or the trim/stems/etc, and using your bud in that way. I am planning to do this if i manage to make it through to flower for my first grow in progress, but haven't made my own yet.
Ingestion typically induces more of a body high, which is where the effects of CBD really kick in (called "couch lock") and i have found tincture to be an excellent way to get great pain relief and euphoria without the "stoned" feeling of smoking or eating cannabis. (haven't made my own, but I've tried some from a friend who makes it)
methods of drying, curing, and extraction are plentiful throughout the forum; i have rarely needed to look elsewhere for answers to my questions!
anyone, please feel free to correct me if i have erred.
good luck!
The real reason why curing creates a more potent result is it makes rapid decarboxylation (lighting it on fire) more efficient and less likely to burn up the THC. I am not certain if decarboxylation is needed for CBD to work.
If you are going to cook it down into some sort of oil or butter or what not then you don't really need to cure it you can do that right after harvest.
If your intent is to do just that and cook it down then you want to read up on the benefits of Chitosan. We can make you a tea brew that will have the plant oozing with sap just coming out of bud sites all over. Great for cooking down and vaping...not so good for smoking.
If you are going to cook it down into some sort of oil or butter or what not then you don't really need to cure it you can do that right after harvest.
If your intent is to do just that and cook it down then you want to read up on the benefits of Chitosan. We can make you a tea brew that will have the plant oozing with sap just coming out of bud sites all over. Great for cooking down and vaping...not so good for smoking.
The real reason why curing creates a more potent result is it makes rapid decarboxylation (lighting it on fire) more efficient and less likely to burn up the THC. I am not certain if decarboxylation is needed for CBD to work.
If you are going to cook it down into some sort of oil or butter or what not then you don't really need to cure it you can do that right after harvest.
If your intent is to do just that and cook it down then you want to read up on the benefits of Chitosan. We can make you a tea brew that will have the plant oozing with sap just coming out of bud sites all over. Great for cooking down and vaping...not so good for smoking.
so right after harvest without letting the plant dry or after?
first time i've heard of using chitosan, isn't that shell fish? does it increase thc and cbd but make it too sticky to burn then? I'll look it up now nayways thx
In the right dose it works great for smoking too. Chitosan does a lot of things. It is the secret ingredient in AN Bud Factor X.
That pic as I recall was right before harvest. I think it was still growing. It was a very low under the canopy popcorn bud...but I had sap everywhere. Real pain to harvest but you get a lot of resin to vap as you go cleaning the tools.
So just a little on Chitosan because you could spend weeks online learning about it...so here is the 10 cent tour.
Chitosan is from primarily derived from the shells of Crustaceans and and shell fish. You will notice on many bags of soil that it has oyster shells in there and this is why. I use Crab meal found at any good garden shop. Mine also sells Shrimp meal as well. Supper cheap as it is waste by product from the fishing industry.
What happens is actually a lot of things so you can read about this for days in real scholarly university studies published on the web.
Primarily what happens is the plant thinks it has an insect infestation. This causes a lot of rapid response mechanisms. One obvious one is accelerated and huge flower growth to help chances of propagation. When Insects infest an area plants will try to bloom hard to get the next generation a chance. A not as obvious response is the immune system goes crazy into overdrive. There are lots of paper showing how the plants are now immune to all sorts of diseases and infection after introducing it. In the case I demonstrated above the plant will begin heavy resin production all over to make the plant in hospital to the insects. The stalks become sticky, everything becomes real gooey if you put a ton in there. With the perfect dose you just get huge high potency flowers.
There is a reason AN sells this stuff for so much and people rave about it.
If you want to make your own I have a recipe posted here that combines AN Nirvana and Bud factor X and Voodoo juice into one bucket. great to add any time of the grow. Just scroll to the end of the thread and I added an additional recipe with all that stuff. Cheap, Easy and fun to make.
I posted it in the DWC section as that is what I was doing at the time so the warnings about it being strong have to do with the proper dose according to the res size. In soil you can follow it exactly, put 2-4 cups per plant and drive it in with a health dose of pHd water. Nowwa days I add a bit more sugar and brew it a bit longer. Every 12 hours add some "sugar" and the bacteria will go bananas. Keep string it every few hours so the sediment at the bottom does not start to make the wrong kind of bacteria.
Tea Bag your DWC
I guess the one warning is this has everything the plant needs in bloom as far as nutes. So to prevent nute burn you back off on everything else. Still add silica and Sugars and some Cal / Mag if needed...but you wont need any more fancy ferts for a while after adding this is soil. I would even recommend skip a feeding leading into this if you are a heavy feeder. The bacteria will get in there and start fixing all kinds of problems and make things way more available. When I do this in DWC my uptake of both water and nutes double. I was dumping in 5 gallons of high concentration nutes every day after I flushed out the res from the original doseing. So for DWC you can put this in 1 week to res change and just top off with water with "some" light nutes until res change and then restart the new res and you are golden.
PM me for more if you are at all unsure of yourself at doing this. There is another thread where I showed step by step the process with pics and did a better job explaining it all.
That pic as I recall was right before harvest. I think it was still growing. It was a very low under the canopy popcorn bud...but I had sap everywhere. Real pain to harvest but you get a lot of resin to vap as you go cleaning the tools.
So just a little on Chitosan because you could spend weeks online learning about it...so here is the 10 cent tour.
Chitosan is from primarily derived from the shells of Crustaceans and and shell fish. You will notice on many bags of soil that it has oyster shells in there and this is why. I use Crab meal found at any good garden shop. Mine also sells Shrimp meal as well. Supper cheap as it is waste by product from the fishing industry.
What happens is actually a lot of things so you can read about this for days in real scholarly university studies published on the web.
Primarily what happens is the plant thinks it has an insect infestation. This causes a lot of rapid response mechanisms. One obvious one is accelerated and huge flower growth to help chances of propagation. When Insects infest an area plants will try to bloom hard to get the next generation a chance. A not as obvious response is the immune system goes crazy into overdrive. There are lots of paper showing how the plants are now immune to all sorts of diseases and infection after introducing it. In the case I demonstrated above the plant will begin heavy resin production all over to make the plant in hospital to the insects. The stalks become sticky, everything becomes real gooey if you put a ton in there. With the perfect dose you just get huge high potency flowers.
There is a reason AN sells this stuff for so much and people rave about it.
If you want to make your own I have a recipe posted here that combines AN Nirvana and Bud factor X and Voodoo juice into one bucket. great to add any time of the grow. Just scroll to the end of the thread and I added an additional recipe with all that stuff. Cheap, Easy and fun to make.
I posted it in the DWC section as that is what I was doing at the time so the warnings about it being strong have to do with the proper dose according to the res size. In soil you can follow it exactly, put 2-4 cups per plant and drive it in with a health dose of pHd water. Nowwa days I add a bit more sugar and brew it a bit longer. Every 12 hours add some "sugar" and the bacteria will go bananas. Keep string it every few hours so the sediment at the bottom does not start to make the wrong kind of bacteria.
Tea Bag your DWC
I guess the one warning is this has everything the plant needs in bloom as far as nutes. So to prevent nute burn you back off on everything else. Still add silica and Sugars and some Cal / Mag if needed...but you wont need any more fancy ferts for a while after adding this is soil. I would even recommend skip a feeding leading into this if you are a heavy feeder. The bacteria will get in there and start fixing all kinds of problems and make things way more available. When I do this in DWC my uptake of both water and nutes double. I was dumping in 5 gallons of high concentration nutes every day after I flushed out the res from the original doseing. So for DWC you can put this in 1 week to res change and just top off with water with "some" light nutes until res change and then restart the new res and you are golden.
PM me for more if you are at all unsure of yourself at doing this. There is another thread where I showed step by step the process with pics and did a better job explaining it all.
It drys fine...it is not too sticky to burn. It is really resinous. If you smoke it both your pipe and lungs will be full of tar. You will need to clean you pipe a lot. But if you do a normal dose you wont really notice it that much. That pic was from a run where I just kept adding some every few weeks to push it to see what would happen. That happened...
And some perspective...that was not modern genetics. That was 20 year old seed I still had from the mid 90's. Probably some original Skunk or NL. But nothing special.
And some perspective...that was not modern genetics. That was 20 year old seed I still had from the mid 90's. Probably some original Skunk or NL. But nothing special.
- Thread starter
- #7
b4 i got home and read about your tea i bought some chitosan from amazon 240 capsules at 500 mg each. can these be used instead of crab meal for making the tea? as the chitosan wasn't really cheap and would like to use it as im growing in a soil environment. and my plant is at 8 weeks
thanks Wink
thanks Wink
I don't know about pills. I make it for dirt cheap. Chitosan can be refined for penny's from waste product from the fishing industry. In multiple posts I have linked the stuff I use. It is $10 for a bag that you would need years to go through. I will link it again here.
Since it is broken down already you wouldn't use it instead of crab meal. You would use it instead of the tea. The whole point of the tea is to make it yourself. So now you would put that in the watering can and let it dissolve and water it to the plants.
Here is what happened.
I have a background in cannabis and horticulture. I was out of the game for some time. When I got back into it everything available on the market has changed and everything we used to do in our back yards is now available in a fancy bottle with a label. But none of it is new stuff. People have been doing this forever relatively speaking.
I was given the complete propaganda spiel about Advanced nutrients from a few places and finally got pissed that they would charge so much for stuff that is just basic common knowledge to anyone who knows anything. So I did a bit of research to find out what all the main ingredients are in each of the bottles that are actually useful. I did lots of research to confirm and understand first which bottles were nonsense and which bottles were of value. Then I focused on the ones that mattered or was stuff I didn't already have and made myself a list of things I needed.
With my list in hand I went to the hydro store I trust where there is a guy with a degree in Horticulture who also does everything himself. We talked a bit about this stuff and it wasn't long before he realized I wasn't to be fooled. He pulled me aside and we started going over all the stuff I found and we came up with a recipe to put the entire advanced nutrient line into one bucket and get it all done for cheap.
I had no intention of getting the results I did... All I was trying to do really was not pay for Bud factor X because they charge a ridiculous amount of money for waste trash byproduct that they bottle. They literally take trash and throw some enzymes on it and break it down and put that in a bottle and sell it for a ton of money.
So I got the stuff and went home and brewed up the tea and started using it... my Hydro system doubled its uptake of nutes and water. I had a stable res and needed no pH adjusting and the PPMs were stable...complete balance and harmony with a living res better than I ever achieved with Voodoo juice or anything else. The things exploded. I was topping off 25% of the res daily with high concentration nutes and the plants were exploding. I did the tea a few times and ended up with sap everywhere. But the point is I make it for cheap using the byproducts you can get anywhere, including amazon, and I break it down with a standard basic microbial process people have been doing since at least the 70's.
So I am sorry I can't help you with the pills I have no idea how to dose them. I take a $10 bag of crab meal and break it down with enzymes and microbes from products found at any hydro store. I have used this bag of crab meal probably 10 times or more and still have most of it.
I use this stuff...
Amazon: Down To Earth Crab Meal Fertilizer, 5 lb.
and this
Amazon: Down To Earth 5-Pound Alfalfa Meal 2.5-0.5-2.5
and this...which can be found at home depot.
Alaska By Pennington Kelp Liquid Fertilizer 0.13-0-0.60 Concentrate, 32 ounces
In a basic worm casting brew with added enzymes and sugars. Enzymes speed up the process. Sugars get the microbes to breed heavily.
There are a few more things if you go back and read any of the posts I pointed you to or PM'd you. Those 3 will get you the 2 most important things for blooming from the AN line and when run heavily in a hydro DWC I got the resin coming out everywhere as predicted by all the papers on chitosan.
I am sorry I can't be more helpful. All I know is what I have done. There are a few people on here I have gotten to try it and they love it. All I can say is I can help you through how I do it. I have yet to see it work with so much resin in soil. I think for soil I have to back way off on the fertilizers and run up the crab meal to get that reaction.
I am putting it in my compost now to see how that works out. I put some directly in the soil in my current grow and that didn't do so well. It really needs to be broken down. So I am trying it out in my compost blend next. I really want to get this down for soil.
Lastly many companies make a good soil blend in a bag. Not complete but good. If you look on the ingredients on many of them you see oyster shells. They are in there exactly for this purpose and a few others. This is not magic of voodoo science. Everyone who understands soils are doing this. But no one is taking medical grade pills for people and putting them into soil. You take the waste product from the fishing industry whether it be shrimp or crab or oysters... and break it down naturally and then you have what you need.
And one final note on this...
I was at another hydro store (I live very close to 3) and I was talking to the owner about this. They also make and bottle their own tea. we were looking at it and it is similar to mine but missing a few things. As we talked he tells me well we can get it in a bottle and labeled for about $2.50 so that's why you see it here for $5. He tells me "when I was talking to the AN rep about how cheaply we bottle it they let slip that they get their product in the bottle with label for about $0.25 a bottle on average across the line."
It is all just a bunch of marketing and propaganda. You can make all this stuff yourself at home for dirt cheap. It just takes patients to learn stuff.
I have started adding this stuff to my modified version of Subcools very basic standard compost and we shall see what happens.
Since it is broken down already you wouldn't use it instead of crab meal. You would use it instead of the tea. The whole point of the tea is to make it yourself. So now you would put that in the watering can and let it dissolve and water it to the plants.
Here is what happened.
I have a background in cannabis and horticulture. I was out of the game for some time. When I got back into it everything available on the market has changed and everything we used to do in our back yards is now available in a fancy bottle with a label. But none of it is new stuff. People have been doing this forever relatively speaking.
I was given the complete propaganda spiel about Advanced nutrients from a few places and finally got pissed that they would charge so much for stuff that is just basic common knowledge to anyone who knows anything. So I did a bit of research to find out what all the main ingredients are in each of the bottles that are actually useful. I did lots of research to confirm and understand first which bottles were nonsense and which bottles were of value. Then I focused on the ones that mattered or was stuff I didn't already have and made myself a list of things I needed.
With my list in hand I went to the hydro store I trust where there is a guy with a degree in Horticulture who also does everything himself. We talked a bit about this stuff and it wasn't long before he realized I wasn't to be fooled. He pulled me aside and we started going over all the stuff I found and we came up with a recipe to put the entire advanced nutrient line into one bucket and get it all done for cheap.
I had no intention of getting the results I did... All I was trying to do really was not pay for Bud factor X because they charge a ridiculous amount of money for waste trash byproduct that they bottle. They literally take trash and throw some enzymes on it and break it down and put that in a bottle and sell it for a ton of money.
So I got the stuff and went home and brewed up the tea and started using it... my Hydro system doubled its uptake of nutes and water. I had a stable res and needed no pH adjusting and the PPMs were stable...complete balance and harmony with a living res better than I ever achieved with Voodoo juice or anything else. The things exploded. I was topping off 25% of the res daily with high concentration nutes and the plants were exploding. I did the tea a few times and ended up with sap everywhere. But the point is I make it for cheap using the byproducts you can get anywhere, including amazon, and I break it down with a standard basic microbial process people have been doing since at least the 70's.
So I am sorry I can't help you with the pills I have no idea how to dose them. I take a $10 bag of crab meal and break it down with enzymes and microbes from products found at any hydro store. I have used this bag of crab meal probably 10 times or more and still have most of it.
I use this stuff...
Amazon: Down To Earth Crab Meal Fertilizer, 5 lb.
and this
Amazon: Down To Earth 5-Pound Alfalfa Meal 2.5-0.5-2.5
and this...which can be found at home depot.
Alaska By Pennington Kelp Liquid Fertilizer 0.13-0-0.60 Concentrate, 32 ounces
In a basic worm casting brew with added enzymes and sugars. Enzymes speed up the process. Sugars get the microbes to breed heavily.
There are a few more things if you go back and read any of the posts I pointed you to or PM'd you. Those 3 will get you the 2 most important things for blooming from the AN line and when run heavily in a hydro DWC I got the resin coming out everywhere as predicted by all the papers on chitosan.
I am sorry I can't be more helpful. All I know is what I have done. There are a few people on here I have gotten to try it and they love it. All I can say is I can help you through how I do it. I have yet to see it work with so much resin in soil. I think for soil I have to back way off on the fertilizers and run up the crab meal to get that reaction.
I am putting it in my compost now to see how that works out. I put some directly in the soil in my current grow and that didn't do so well. It really needs to be broken down. So I am trying it out in my compost blend next. I really want to get this down for soil.
Lastly many companies make a good soil blend in a bag. Not complete but good. If you look on the ingredients on many of them you see oyster shells. They are in there exactly for this purpose and a few others. This is not magic of voodoo science. Everyone who understands soils are doing this. But no one is taking medical grade pills for people and putting them into soil. You take the waste product from the fishing industry whether it be shrimp or crab or oysters... and break it down naturally and then you have what you need.
And one final note on this...
I was at another hydro store (I live very close to 3) and I was talking to the owner about this. They also make and bottle their own tea. we were looking at it and it is similar to mine but missing a few things. As we talked he tells me well we can get it in a bottle and labeled for about $2.50 so that's why you see it here for $5. He tells me "when I was talking to the AN rep about how cheaply we bottle it they let slip that they get their product in the bottle with label for about $0.25 a bottle on average across the line."
It is all just a bunch of marketing and propaganda. You can make all this stuff yourself at home for dirt cheap. It just takes patients to learn stuff.
I have started adding this stuff to my modified version of Subcools very basic standard compost and we shall see what happens.
