first time closet grow. help with different topics

Happyjoy

Happyjoy

Well-Known Member
hey everyone. its my first time grow.
im in day two since the little plants broke ground.
i have a few urgent questeions to make sure everythings ok. thnks!

bascially, grow space: is a cabinet 2'x3' and 5' height.
light: HPS 400w
ventilation: 4" bathroom vent on top of room. a 4" hole in bottom of room.

questions:

LIGHTING:
-the Hps is 26 inches above plants, is that good? how long should it be this way?

-i hung 1 28W daylight spectrum CFL right above the plants (about 2-3 inches away) to add blue veg spectrum.
is this a good move? they all seem to be turning towards it.
should i be using more than 1 CFL to get more blue spectrum?, should i completely forget about the HPS till after a few weeks?

HEAT: heat is around 90-95 deg farenheit. is this an issues? should i find ways to make it cooler by adding an intake fan instead of just a hole? (my intake fan is in the mail and wont be arriving for another two weeks, but i can buy a regular 7" desk fan and put it instead in the meantime

HUMIDITY
i dont think humidity is very good in there. what should i be aiming for? i have a cold humidifier and will use it if nescesary....i wont be able to use it all day. would i be ok to use it sometimes. in other words, the humidity will be going up and down....


i posted different threads here and got tons of help. since the grow has finally started im starting a new thread here to make sure everythings going ok. after i see im in the right direction ill start a grow journal.

THNKS EVERYONE!!!:thumb:
 
Re: first time closet grow. help with different topics.

Happyjoy said:
hey everyone. its my first time grow.
im in day two since the little plants broke ground.
i have a few urgent questeions to make sure everythings ok. thnks!

bascially, grow space: is a cabinet 2'x3' and 5' height.
light: HPS 400w
ventilation: 4" bathroom vent on top of room. a 4" hole in bottom of room.

questions:

LIGHTING:
-the Hps is 26 inches above plants, is that good? how long should it be this way?

*You could probably do without the 400 W and just use the CFL's. Maybe try moving the 400 W up a bit further and keep the CFL where it is and see how that goes. You can lower it later on just see how they look -where it is now I don't think you will fry them

-i hung 1 28W daylight spectrum CFL right above the plants (about 2-3 inches away) to add blue veg spectrum.
is this a good move? they all seem to be turning towards it.
should i be using more than 1 CFL to get more blue spectrum?, should i completely forget about the HPS till after a few weeks?

*Again, just see how they look in a while and how they're growing. You could put four CFL's -wouldn't hurt, put them a couple inches away. They don't need very much light though when you're young

HEAT: heat is around 90-95 deg farenheit. is this an issues? should i find ways to make it cooler by adding an intake fan instead of just a hole? (my intake fan is in the mail and wont be arriving for another two weeks, but i can buy a regular 7" desk fan and put it instead in the meantime.

*Yes that's too hot. You should never get above 90° and try to keep it in the low 80s or less. Young plants do well around 80° but generally speaking I think the ideal temperature is about 75. In the 90s can be actually damaging to the plants. So do what you can to get them down a bit

HUMIDITY
i dont think humidity is very good in there. what should i be aiming for? i have a cold humidifier and will use it if nescesary....i wont be able to use it all day. would i be ok to use it sometimes. in other words, the humidity will be going up and down....

*Honestly, I don't think you need to worry much about the humidity right now but it becomes an issue if its way to dry, or during flowering if it is way too wet then you can get some mold issues

i posted different threads here and got tons of help. since the grow has finally started im starting a new thread here to make sure everythings going ok. after i see im in the right direction ill start a grow journal.

THNKS EVERYONE!!!:thumb:
Click to expand...

I think I , or Antics, may have posted the link earlier to -how to grow marijuana everything you need to know. A lot of these questions can be answered in there as well
Congratulations on the sprouts that's great you are up and running now:thumb:
PS. Do not overwater!!!!
 
Re: first time closet grow. help with different topics.

Weaselcracker said:
I think I , or Antics, may have posted the link earlier to -how to grow marijuana everything you need to know. A lot of these questions can be answered in there as well
Congratulations on the sprouts that's great you are up and running now:thumb:
PS. Do not overwater!!!!
Click to expand...

thanks. your right. i read through alot of that stuff. my heads spinning from all the info and its hard to sort it out practically.
however theres some things there that i didnt find that i was hoping people could help advise:

I read that best humidity level now during veg is around 80%. however for some reason, (must be because the size of my room, together with the 400W hps...) my room gets super dry.
I have my humidifier on full blast and the room is around 40% humidity....
this means im not getting enough humidity, and ill need to be refilling the water alot.
im considering maybe having the humidifer on a timer so that it turns on for 15 minutes every hour, so that the water wont run out so fast, but then the room will be even dryer!

-so should i be using a different light during veg in order to keep the humidity lower (if the light is even the problem?)

THE NEXT QUESTION IS:
should i:
- continue vegging with only the HPS and one 28WCFL, or
- add my fixture i made to it for 4 28W CFL bulbs.
(i read abunch about this in the articles, but not sure in my situation what to pick)

the reason im asking is because i have the CFL hanging downards in between the little plants. and theyre all turning towards it (its actually pretty cute). so even though they have this blinding massive 400W hps over them, theyre still leaning themselves towards the little 6500k CFL. pretty intresting....
 
Re: first time closet grow. help with different topics.

Boy does this sound like me over 10yrs ago.. my first setup was a 400w hps with a batwing reflector and I used a bathroom fart fan as my exhaust.. the temps your talking about will eventually fry these suckers though, need to address that issue ASAP. A hot room is in the mid 80's and they perform even better at 78f. I run mine a bit hot still and some strains can handle it pretty good at 82f.. I don't think your fan can draw enough air from that hole unless it is connected directly via ducting.. I bought mine at home improvement store for $12.. now have a 265cfm squirrel cage fan with a can fan filter for odor control and having great results.. you may not see any damage now, but you will as they grow I'm afraid. I grow from start to finish now for many years using a 400w HPS light and get very good results, puts out many more lumens then a cfl although they work good for extra side lighting when they get a bit older.
Right now your biggest worry of all should be getting your heat down as temps that high will cause wilting, poor bud production and even hermie issues as they stress.. best of luck man.
 
Re: first time closet grow. help with different topics.

Good info above- try putting your 4 cfl setup above the plants and kill the mh for now. It will get more humid when the room is full of larger plants and moist soil, but in the meantime 40% is great (probably some fairly obvious diy ways to raise the humidity though if you want) and without the mh it won't be drying out so much.
 
THANKS everyone for all this advice! i had no clue heat was such an important issue, and that it was going to get so hot!

my exhaust fan specs says it clears out 67 cubic meters a minute. and its connected directly through ducting.... but its not doing the job with the 400w HPS.
however the fan is connected into the ceiling of the room, and the light is in the middle of the room.
i thoguht that maybe if i move the exhaust fan down to the level of the light, that perhpas it would suck out the hot air better....but was told that it doesnt make a difference.
should i make the exhaust fan be sucking from below the light instead of at the roof?

i noticed today that if i keep the grow room door open, that the temps drop to 85F.
so i have two options now for the next two weeks of vegging (estimated time till my LED arrives...)
should i stick with the 400W HPS with the door open and temps of 85F (but humidity levels of around 40%)
or should i switch over to 4x28W cfls to keep the temps lower, and get optimal humidity?, but i wont have the 400W HPS...(is there actually any advantage to the HPS over the CFL's at this stage of vegging?) ....

i can also add more CFL's. im not limited to just 4 bulbs. i just figured that at this stage, i dont need more than that, till my plants take more space than 2sq feet.


i think im going to be buying a LED light (the mars reflector 96x3), to lower the temps. it just seems too difficult dealing with the heat of the hps in this room.
the actual DRAW power is 170-200W. that would give me around 30W per square meter. is that ok being that i just want to have a small sizedquality grow, or do i NEED to pitch in for the next size up which has a 250W-300W actual DRAW power?

ill be more than happy growing with the 96x3 light, especially since its more in my price range, but i want to make sure that the 30W per sq foot is acceptable in my case or if i should really be pitching in more money and getting the 143x3 size.
 
hey everyone!
so i finnally took down that 400W HPS. "sigh of relief". i think my plants were getting baked under it ;)
i put in my 4x28W CFL fixture over about 3 inches over the little guys and everything seems much cooler in there.

the TEMP now is 80F with the door closed and sealed. (with the hps it was 95 closed. and 85 open)
HUMIDITY is around 35% during the day. when i spray with the sprayer or when the humidifier is on, it goes up to 50%.


i noticed that the stems of the 3 plants are all purple.... so im guessing its not because of genetics.. could it be nutrition problems so early on? or could it perhaps just be because they were suffering from all the heat and theyll get over it?
what should i do? ive read different things in the guides, but what exactly needs to be done here to detect the source of the problem?
 
hey everyone.
so my temps are still around 85 during the day. some people have reccomended that i get a larger CFM exhaust fan...
im currently using a 4" exhaust with 67CFM rating at the top. and a passive intake with a small fan blowing air from the outside. (waiting for my 4.7" 79CFM computer fan to come in the mail to use as an intake)

should i really get a stronger CFM exhaust fan? my room is 30 cubic feet. that means with my current fan it 'should' be getting cleared out twice a minute....

i see that when i open the door to my growroom, the room goes from 85 deg, to 75 deg.
so would that point out to needing a stronger exhaust, or intake, or both?
(on another note, i was also told to have a stronger exhaust than intake, in order to create a vacume in the room. so i can buy a 7" exhaust, and use this 4" for intake (or just leave it passive if i see the 7" is enough...)

another thing to point out. i took the temps by the ceiling of my growroom, and they are 71F. its only 85F underneath my CFL's.
so would that mean that with the LED's, i wont need to get a bigger exhaust, since the main heat will be at the top, and not trapped in between the lights and plants?
 
hey everyone!
i have a quick question which would seem to have an obvious answer, but ive been reading all over the internet and cant find a solid answer that i understand.

how often should i be wattering my seedlings in the 12oz solo cups????

the reason i put them in solo cups to begin with, was because i thought that that way, its easy to monitor the watering. and that i should just put a little water each day in order to make sure the soil doesnt dry out.
but ive been reading of people watering solo cups once or twice a week. its hard for me to understand how once a week would be sufficient in such small cups?

i tried sticking my finger in one inch to see if its damp, but im afraid to ruin the roots since its such a small space, and also i cant really tell.

should i be watering in small amounts every day, or a full watering till it runs out the hole once a few days?
 
Holy shit. Lots of questions.

I'll see what I can do, just answering in order to save some time:

Heat rises, the fan should be at the highest point. Any lower, and you're not removing the hottest air from the grow.

CFLs for Veg are highly effective, and use less power. If you can use them, do it. Just make sure you have 1-2 bulbs per plant, or pots placed close enough to share a bulb. Plants should be within 2-6" of the bulb.

HPS is not used for Vegging, MH is. So there would be no advantage to using HPS over CFL (assuming CFL are 6500K)

If you're talking about the 2'x3' grow space, the 96x3 Reflector will work. It will give you 28.33 watts per square foot (I calculate using the smallest draw to be safe)(you said square meter at first and I was like wtf, that means 3 watts per square foot lol) Calculated it myself, and you should be good for how you want to grow. If you want to go bigger later, you can add a second light with no problems. I just added a 2nd light myself. With one light, I was growing with around 20 watts per square foot.

For SMALL, QUALITY, the light is spot on perfect, and might be capable of giving you good results for a medium grow as well. How long you Veg will basically dictate how big your plants grow.

Purple stems is usually a sign of phosphorous deficiency. In soil, if your PH is below 6.5 Phosphorous can also be locked out. Verify PH of nutes going in, and runoff coming out first.
Keep an eye on it for a few days under the CFLs. If PH was good, and problem progresses, give nutes diluted.
If PH was too low, and problem progresses, correct that.

Fans. Fun stuff.. Basically: Fans will be rated a CFM number, in their specific application. If it's designed to be used open air, like a PC, window fan, table fan, or something like that, it can flow what it claims. Add a filter, ducting, or any kind of resistance, and the CFM drops immediately.
You may need to increase the number of fans, or use a higher flowing fan/fans. The LED will give off as much heat as maybe 2 CFLs? I'm guessing here... They give off some heat, but not a ton. But enough that you'll still need ventilation.

Correct, about the LED and possibly not needing a bigger fan. For now, if you have heat trapped between CFLs and plants, add a small fan to blow across the canopy.

The simple answer: Water as often as they need it.

There's no way to tell someone how many days between watering. Varied soil composition, perlite, vermiculite, organics, rocks, wood, etc.... all affect how long soil holds moisture.

For seedlings, I prefer to just keep the soil moist. Not wet enough to drip out of the bottom, but not dry either. Once I start feeding nutes, I water until I see a little runoff, then no water until the soil on top is bone dry, and soil inside has time to dry out.


I really gotta ask you dude... did you read this link: How to Grow Marijuana Everything You Need to Know
A ton of this shit I just answered is covered on that page. You really gotta read it man. Hit CTRL F, and search for keywords on the page. It's fast. Easy. And has all the answers you need.
 
Antics said:
Holy shit. Lots of questions.

I'll see what I can do, just answering in order to save some time:

Heat rises, the fan should be at the highest point. Any lower, and you're not removing the hottest air from the grow.

CFLs for Veg are highly effective, and use less power. If you can use them, do it. Just make sure you have 1-2 bulbs per plant, or pots placed close enough to share a bulb. Plants should be within 2-6" of the bulb.

HPS is not used for Vegging, MH is. So there would be no advantage to using HPS over CFL (assuming CFL are 6500K)

If you're talking about the 2'x3' grow space, the 96x3 Reflector will work. It will give you 28.33 watts per square foot (I calculate using the smallest draw to be safe)(you said square meter at first and I was like wtf, that means 3 watts per square foot lol) Calculated it myself, and you should be good for how you want to grow. If you want to go bigger later, you can add a second light with no problems. I just added a 2nd light myself. With one light, I was growing with around 20 watts per square foot.

For SMALL, QUALITY, the light is spot on perfect, and might be capable of giving you good results for a medium grow as well. How long you Veg will basically dictate how big your plants grow.

Purple stems is usually a sign of phosphorous deficiency. In soil, if your PH is below 6.5 Phosphorous can also be locked out. Verify PH of nutes going in, and runoff coming out first.
Keep an eye on it for a few days under the CFLs. If PH was good, and problem progresses, give nutes diluted.
If PH was too low, and problem progresses, correct that.

Fans. Fun stuff.. Basically: Fans will be rated a CFM number, in their specific application. If it's designed to be used open air, like a PC, window fan, table fan, or something like that, it can flow what it claims. Add a filter, ducting, or any kind of resistance, and the CFM drops immediately.
You may need to increase the number of fans, or use a higher flowing fan/fans. The LED will give off as much heat as maybe 2 CFLs? I'm guessing here... They give off some heat, but not a ton. But enough that you'll still need ventilation.

Correct, about the LED and possibly not needing a bigger fan. For now, if you have heat trapped between CFLs and plants, add a small fan to blow across the canopy.

The simple answer: Water as often as they need it.

There's no way to tell someone how many days between watering. Varied soil composition, perlite, vermiculite, organics, rocks, wood, etc.... all affect how long soil holds moisture.

For seedlings, I prefer to just keep the soil moist. Not wet enough to drip out of the bottom, but not dry either. Once I start feeding nutes, I water until I see a little runoff, then no water until the soil on top is bone dry, and soil inside has time to dry out.


I really gotta ask you dude... did you read this link: How to Grow Marijuana Everything You Need to Know
A ton of this shit I just answered is covered on that page. You really gotta read it man. Hit CTRL F, and search for keywords on the page. It's fast. Easy. And has all the answers you need.
Click to expand...

hehe. i just added a like ;) would also give about 420 likes if i could. thnks
yeah ive read through those posts. the problem is each thing more that i read, i get about a million opinions on each topic. thats why it helps after i read through everything, to get one or two actual peoples opinions here currently to help me decide the final way...
i think that tip of CTRL F will make it easier for me to look through there....

ill put up pics of my cfl setup soon when i get the time.

so about the LED's. you said that the 96x3 would go good in my room. however ive been reading that LED grows really should be 50W per sq foot. but in action, i see alot of journals here where people are using closer to 30W.

how was ur LED grow that u used 20W a sq.foot? i dont want to do this whole grow, and then end up with just mediocre buds since there wasnt enough watts. i would really love that these plants come out 'amazing'...so im trying to put in all the care i can to make it the best i can to my ability.
i wouldnt want, because of trying to save 100$, to lose out on alot of potential 'quality' that i could have had. if i go wtih the 144x3' then that will be 50W per sq foot, which would be exactly like it should... however will this jump up the quality alot, or just quanitty?

the reason it seems confusing to me in this case especially, is that the difference in lighting with the 144x3 and the 96x3 is that the 144x3 is the same with as the 96x3, but its just an extra 1/3 longer. so wouldnt that just mean more coverage,
in other words, the plants towards the center of the room will still be getting the same amount of WATTS with the 144x3 or the 96x3. but the extra wattage will just be effecting the edges of the grow room.... or does it not work like that?
 
The reason you see different, and sometimes conflicting opinions, is because there's more than one way to skin a cat.

But you don't see things like people growing with incandescent bulbs, or growing with flashlights, because they don't work. The things you are reading, have all worked for someone, and it's up to you to find what works best in your environment.

My Plant under 20w/sqft was Vegged 11 weeks, had 4 weeks od serious PH trouble where the plant was dying, so about 9 weeks of good Veg time, and I would have seen about an ounce +/-. I recently added the second light, so I'm hoping to bump that up towards 1.5-2, I just harvested today, and should be looking at 1-1.5 ounces.

Quality will be fine under your chosen light, as long as the plants fit into the light coverage area. With lower light, you just won't see huge harvests per plant, but 30 watts is still pretty decent, I wouldn't worry about it for what you want to do.

Doesn't work like that. You have more LEDs on more lights/bigger light, which means more available spectrum saturation for the plants.

Think of it like this... put 4 people in a room, pour 3 gallons of water on them.

Now pour 5 gallons of water on them.

People = Plants
Water = Light
 
hey there everyone! thnks for all the help and guidelines!
i added in the stronger exhaust fan. the room is steady now around 76 deg with lights. (can go up to the 80s if it gets really hot, but not too much above 80.(this temp is under the hood with the cfl's which is the hottest part of the room ;)

heres some pics to see if im doing this right.
this is a pic of the CFL light i put together. its 4x28W white cfl's under a reflection hood
light_a.JPG


heres a pic from the side:
lights_b.JPG


heres a pic of the plants. theyre just about 6 days old in these pics
plants_c.JPG
plant_a2.JPG
plants_b.JPG

(the little coffee cup is a seed germinating (hopefully ;) )


and heres a pic of them under the lights in the room
under_light.JPG

the yellow colored led is a 20W warm spectrum i put to help add a tiny bit of warm spectrum ( i read its a good idea to add a little warm during veg.)


theres just soo little room i cant get back far enough to take a pic of the whole room, but theres that little 4" fan on the right side, and a larger 10" one on the floor blowing up to the hood and over the plants themselves (not directly though, just enough to have them move a little)

the seedlings are around 3" from the lights, and are about 1" tall. maybe a little more. (the durban p is about 1.5". its the fastest by far. the leaves are larger, and its growing another set ahead of the others)
is it possible that they all may have been stunted from growth becuse of the 400WHPS and high temps (over 95F) that i had in the first 4 days...?

i have an important question:
so i know its not generally good to transplant this early, but the soil i used origionally was just regular potting soil, and i accidently packed it down tight when i germinated the seeds. so i was thinking it might help the little plants by transplanting them already now, to this new soil i got, so that things will be nice and airy there. (and maybe the new soil will help with the reddish colored stems...)
i got really good soil thats made with nutrients in it for all stages of plant growth. (its gentle to seedlings also).
the soil is mixed with COCO and soil. (and i bought a bag of perlite to mix in with that also).

should i go for it already now, even though theyre this small? i have a feeling that they really want better more aired out soil.

what dyou guys think?
 
hey there everyone!
im still trying to figure out the watering thing. im afraid of overwatering, but i also dont want to be under watering.
heres a pic of the plants today.
under_water_or_over1.JPG

i read that drooping leaves can be a sign of over or under watered.
are these leaves drooping? should they look like theyre stretching and reaching upwardes towards the light? if so, does it look like theyre over or under?
of course i stuck my finger an inch in the soil to check if its damp. well it doesnt feel wet like mud for sure. but its not bone dry either...


btw the little sprout is the medi haze which just came up. its a week behind everyone else since the first seed didnt sprout so i started a new one. its two days old today ;)
 
If your plant is under watered (which it isn't), the soil will be very dry and the pot will be light, and the whole plant will be wilting. If the soil appears moist and the plants leaves are drooping downwards, it is well watered or overwatered. The only decent way in my opinion to judge when to water is by the weight of the pot. Test the weight of a full pot of dry or slightly moist soil against a pot of wet soil and you'll get a feel for it quickly. Let them almost dry out before you water again. The wet to dry cycle is very important. I am surprised if info on this pot weight method isn't in the how to grow marijuana section, but people seem to keep re-posting this same info over and over so it probably should be. Because your plants are small and pots are relatively big, you'll have to be careful not to over water. The wet-dry cycle should be happening within about 3-5 days. I go about 5 days if I completely soak them down. More than a week of being wet is getting too long. Overwatering means – the roots staying soaked for a long period. If your plants are not drying out within five days or so then do not soak the soil when you water, just keep it moist as needed. This will change as the plants get bigger.
 
ok thnks!
i guess my problem was that i never did a full water, and then waited for it to dry out.
from the beggining i was just watering a little bit each time to keep it constanlty moist wihtout soaking it. (its what i read in one of the tutorials for seedlings somewhere online.) but it has really been confusing.
i like the method of doing a full watering, and then waiting a few days.
ill let them all get dry this time and compare it with a pot of dry soil and then thoroughly water and wait a few days agian.
thnks
 

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