Growing with Coco: Questions, Answers & Scuttlebutt

[HorseBadoritz]

High all,

I've got 2 bricks of coco and I'm having a hard time finding much on how to use it here on 420.

OBX Gardener suggested it might be helpful to start a coco thread, so here we go

I started checking into coco hempies after I found a tutorial by Hempy. Here's something I lifted from there:

"hi all heres an up date think these are around 2 weeks now the thing i like about useing coco peat like this is its less effert and by just adding something other than coco peat in the rez to allow the coco to drain into the rez it works so much better now yes coco peat holds a lot of water or nutrient rich water but it also holds lots of air and in short it is for me being the medium of choice.

I dont claim to be an expert on the topic far from it infact but from all i have read so far on coco it basicly acts a lot like soil yet unlike soil works and works very well in hydro the only thing it realy needs to have done before its used is for it to be well flushed with tap water only to remove any salt.

Coco wicks in short draws moisture up if its allowed to sit in water so by simply just placeing some other medium in the rez and in all honesty i think coco chips will work and plan on useing it next you can use more coco peat and still have an enternal rez but in all honesty the proof is in the plants that are growing in it if there happy then you must be doing it right."

Thanks for any contributions.



Horse Badortiz

 

[HorseBadoritz]

I'm thinking of doing a coco hempy with either OC+ or canna A & B.
I've got 5k GH Cocotek bricks. I'm not exactly clear on prepping the coco, so any insights would be appreciated.

I think I can put the brick in a pillow case, and run water thru it til it's clear. How much water could it take? I have well water with a high Total Alkalinity and pH. I have 15 gal of dehumidifier run off stored.

Could I just wash the coir with well water, flush that with the distilled h2o, then prep that with my next question... what do you prep with?

That's enough for now... my boys are losing their ball game

 

[HorseBadoritz]

Mods, is it cool to copy text from other sites and post here? I understand if it's not, but I am such a slow typer, you could grow a crop before I finish

I'm still in the beginning stage so here's something I found at grass city from a helpful fellow named AskEd.

"Working With Coco Bricks
I recommend distilled or RO water for expanding bricks, you can use it straight out of the bottle. Optionally you can add your own nutrients in very low dosage, like 150-300 ppm or 1/4 strength directions. This provides basic food for young seedlings or clones when they are ready to eat. I like to add micro nutrients (Tiger Bloom or Maxicrop) if I'm not adding nutes, but I always ph my water to 5.8 at minimum.

Rinsing Coco
In the early days of coco (early 1990's), coco was not processed as well as it is today. You had to rinse the hell out of the coco before using it to rinse out the salts in it. This was a terrible time in coco history, but most of today's products are pre-rinsed and ready to go. Manufacturers spend months rinsing and steaming the coco into usable condition. I prefer the bagged coco because I mix in organic amendments and it's ready to go. I basically pour the coco from the bag, mix in my stuff, and put into the container.

To check the coco, pour some distilled or RO water through the coco, measure the runoff's ppm (please see pics below for more detail on this). It should be less than 100ppm (less than 50ppm is ideal). If it's over 200ppm, tell your source they are selling crappy coco! I've tried every brand I can get my hands on, I've yet to come across sub-par coco, even ordering from Ebay stores or Amazon.


Preparing Coco
Coco is fine to use by itself, a lot of people prefer this over anything else. I like to mix in some perlite to add some airiness and structure, I truly feel this speeds up the growth rate as well. The draw back is that you have to water more often. I prefer 75% coco & 25% perlite, but I've had great success with 50/50 mix.

** I highly advise adding some lime to your base coco at the rate of 1 tbsp per gallon of medium. Hydrated is good, I prefer pelletized because it's slow release and keeps the calcium issue at bay during flowering when it's the most troublesome. It has a lot of other benefits, but the calcium supply can save you a lot of headaches later.

If I want a super fast growing plant, I'll sprout it in a 1 gallon container if I have the space. If I don't have the space I use smaller containers. I really don't like using smaller than 6" or 1/2 gallon pots, although I've used smaller as well as platic cups with no issues. For flowering, 3 to 5 gallons is plenty big for most indoor grows. Outdoors I don't recommend anything smaller than a 5 gallon."

Any comments on Ed's piece would be apprciated

GrowerZ has also been posting some helpful info in the OC+ thread.

 

[Bandit420]

High HB!
Thanks for starting this thread! I too am looking into coco for use in a drip system tray. Pretty much the same thing as a rockwool slab type set up for blooming extra clones rather than trashing them.
So far what I've found is that the company Canna seems to be the leader in coco gardening. They make 2 nute lineups specifically for coco and they also make the buffering agents for presoaking the coco. I also saw that they have several grades of coco to choose from that come in bricks, bags, or slabs.
I'm still trying to find other options as far as products and how to use info. I'll post here if I find anything good.

 

[Setting Sun]

Thanks for starting the thread Horse!

I'm just too damn busy right now to participate much in any threads outside of my two current and very active journals, but I appreciate you taking the initiative.

Coco is fascinating stuff, and my plants are loving it.

The "Ask Ed" guide above is very good, IMO.

 

[HorseBadoritz]

High HB!
Thanks for starting this thread! I too am looking into coco for use in a drip system tray. Pretty much the same thing as a rockwool slab type set up for blooming extra clones rather than trashing them.
So far what I've found is that the company Canna seems to be the leader in coco gardening. They make 2 nute lineups specifically for coco and they also make the buffering agents for presoaking the coco. I also saw that they have several grades of coco to choose from that come in bricks, bags, or slabs.
I'm still trying to find other options as far as products and how to use info. I'll post here if I find anything good.

Thanks for stopping in Bandit. I, too, have seen some nice coco grows with Canna. GrowerZ is doing coco hempies and OC+. I might have to try a side by side, cause I can't make up my mind

 

[HorseBadoritz]

Thanks for starting the thread Horse!

I'm just too damn busy right now to participate much in any threads outside of my two current and very active journals, but I appreciate you taking the initiative.

Coco is fascinating stuff, and my plants are loving it.

The "Ask Ed" guide above is very good, IMO.

Hey SS, just bumping this thread is a help. Maybe someone can help link any coco threads together?

I am following what you're doing, too, thanks for staying accessible

 

[Bandit420]

I was checking out Botanicare's site and they too have some goodies for coco coir with several size blocks and what they call Botanicoir slabs or bags.
They also have a CNS17 nute line just for coir in grow & bloom.
H&G also make coir only nutes so it looks like there's some good stuff out there. All of it looks easy to use.
Hopefully some sort of buyers guide could be established on the coir products. I'm sure some coco coir mediums are cleaner or finer than others so it would be nice to get a heads up on which products are the best.
I'm also wondering if the buffering presoak agents are needed and if a good clean 5.5-6 ph tap water soak would be fine.

EDIT: My tap water is 80-120ppm & 7.5-8 ph which is why I prefer to use it rather than invest in ro or bottled water

 

[HorseBadoritz]

High all,

so here's some basic stuff, and it's my experience only...

Today I exploded a 5k HG Growtek brick. I'd read about putting a brick in a pillowcase, hosing it down, and tra la la. Dang, smaller bricks, or bigger pillowcases! Split mine right down the seam. I ended up up dumping most of it into a recycling bin that had a few 3/8" holes in the bottom.

I was going to do the rinse til the ec in = ec out. Sounds simple enough.

I've got well water and it read:

TA over 200, that's all the farther the strip goes.

ec NaCl 278

ec KCl 139

ppm

NaCl 139

KCl 139

pH 6.9

First 5 gal flush all the readings were the above x 10. So much for AskEd's premise that all modern coco is good to go

After maybe 20gals:

TA 40-120, is there a way to get closer with the pool strips?

ec NaCl 254

ec KCl 207

ppm

NaCl 104

KCl 104

pH 7

So the ec NaCl confused me. When I'd used the meter before, that number was roughly 1/2 of the KCl. If I read things right, that's what I got on this well water reading.

I did add some hose after the 1st reading. I don't know enough about what I'm looking at, or what I'm looking for, but the last ec KCl reading seems out of line to me. When I took the 1st hi reading, I flushed, then flushed, then flushed again... reading actually went up 5??? Point of diminishing return, republicans cooking the books?

Anyway, I stopped, looked at this mass of coco and wondered WTF am I gonna do with this? I'm not ready to put it into pots... dang, I don't have any pot to put in pots... I dumped it in the baby pool (good thing I've got an extra, the baby's coming over tomorrow and it's going to be 90°), covered it with a sheet, and hope the stuff dries out without attracting any unwanted bugs! Dragging it into the crawlspace seems like a mold explosion waiting to happen... bugs... mold whaddya do? I just wanted some coco ready to grow 4 plants in Trader Joe's rosepots, and clone the girls going into those pots and maybe a few others...

I'm thinking the Canna stuff in the bags isn't such a ripoff

So, tell your friends and their relatives to dump their coca thoughts here, they can't be anymore baked than I am

and coco

 

[Setting Sun]

Ok, here's how I wound up prepping my no-name coco brick, and it worked really well.

I put the brick in a tote and filled it with my garden hose. It took about 6 hours to hydrate enough so I could break it up and add more water.

Once it was well-hydrated and broken up, I put all of it in a regular 30-gallon planter that I had put on my lawn. Took the hose and ran gallons and gallons of water through it, moving the planter occasionally so that my lawn got a good watering.

I filled a 5" square pot, ran some tap water through, and checked the ppm. Tap water ppm was 145, coco runoff was 140.

Even if I bought the best brand-name coco on the market, that claimed that it was pre-rinsed, I would prep it the same way.

My tap water at 145ppm, has a fair bit of calcium in it, but not so much that I need to cut it with RO, or use something else, so I figure that when I do my thorough rinse, the coco pre-charges with the calcium in my tap water, and is stabilized for the same water I'm going to be using for the grow.

I use the same planter to store the leftover coco, so couldn't be easier.

 

[HorseBadoritz]

Even if I bought the best brand-name coco on the market, that claimed that it was pre-rinsed, I would prep it the same way.

But, but, but... the Canna stuff looks so right! Seriously though, would you really re-prep the canna?

My tap water at 145ppm

I'm trying to get a handle on this, I read 139 ppm from my well, but I have a TA of over 200... do you know what your TA is?

, has a fair bit of calcium in it, but not so much that I need to cut it with RO, or use something else, so I figure that when I do my thorough rinse, the coco pre-charges with the calcium in my tap water, and is stabilized for the same water I'm going to be using for the grow.

I use the same planter to store the leftover coco, so couldn't be easier.

Do you store it wet or dry? Dang pool won't fit thru the door

 

[Setting Sun]

yep, I would prep the Canna the same way, because I have this theory that even if the coco is well-rinsed and ready to go, it will still benefit from a rinsing and pre-charge with the same water it's going to be getting throughout the grow.

That could be completely wrong, but it makes sense in my pea brain, lol.

My total alkalinity is 75-80ppm.

I kept the planter outside for a few days to let the coco dry out, and then I put it in my shed and used the big saucer that came with the planter to loosely cover it. It's still drying out, so I didn't want to cover it too tight.

Maybe you can throw some burlap or something breathable over the pool and just keep it outside until it's dry enough to store easily.

I wouldn't take that wet wookie anywhere near my grow, lol.

 

[Father Jack]

I may be new here...but not new to growing....and I've been growing in coco for a few years. Hempy bucket is my preferred method for ease of use and results. Some good info above...but here is one of the better articles I have read about coco. Alot of the old coco articles were written before people really knew how to use the stuff.

Integral Hydroponics Page Coco Substrate Science

 

[HorseBadoritz]

I may be new here...but not new to growing....and I've been growing in coco for a few years. Hempy bucket is my preferred method for ease of use and results. Some good info above...but here is one of the better articles I have read about coco. Alot of the old coco articles were written before people really knew how to use the stuff.

Integral Hydroponics Page Coco Substrate Science

High Father Jack,

Welcome to 420, and especially to this coco thread. I'm off to read that article, thanks.

 

[Bandit420]

This week I'm going start messing with some coco. I have easy access to the GH CocoTek bricks & mats and Coco Dan Croutons so I'll try those. The GH products have claims of being ph balanced and have a very low sodium content. One brick makes 3.5 gallons of media.
I want to use it in an ebb & flo for veg. The plants will be in 6" net cups and then move to diy waterfarms for bloom. I'll want to use the croutons in the waterfarms. I might go with croutons for the ebb n flo but I need to make sure they wont float up and out of the net pots.
I also want to set up a Dutch style leaching tray for over flow clones. The clones will go staright from the cloner to bloom.
For that I may just fill the tray half full with coco mats and have a plastic wrapped slab on top of the mats with the bottom plastic cut out so the roots can grow thru and into the matting.
I like the way ConqueringLOJ has his dripper and irrigation set up so I'll probably go with something very similar to fit the tray.
It seems that plenty of growers use all sorts of coir only and regular nutes and both have great results.
I want to keep my nutes simple so I'll go with Floranova with Plant Success Soluble & Molasses every two weeks

 

[HorseBadoritz]

yep, I would prep the Canna the same way, because I have this theory that even if the coco is well-rinsed and ready to go, it will still benefit from a rinsing and pre-charge with the same water it's going to be getting throughout the grow.

Are you going to be using OC+ and simply incorporating?

That could be completely wrong, but it makes sense in my pea brain, lol.

I was thinking along that line, too, so it makes perfect sense to me

My total alkalinity is 75-80ppm.

I'd love to just go with the well water. Seem I'm on the TA edge, so I may go for it.

I kept the planter outside for a few days to let the coco dry out, and then I put it in my shed and used the big saucer that came with the planter to loosely cover it. It's still drying out, so I didn't want to cover it too tight.

Maybe you can throw some burlap or something breathable over the pool and just keep it outside until it's dry enough to store easily.

I've got it under a bed sheet, it's gonna be a slow dry! I turned it this morning, and flying things are in it already... so spinosad is in our future... I'm just hoping the sheet keeps the cats out!

I wouldn't take that wet wookie anywhere near my grow, lol.

Sure does smell better than a wet wookie

and check out Father Jack's link... good stuff.

 

[HorseBadoritz]

This week I'm going start messing with some coco. I have easy access to the GH CocoTek bricks & mats and Coco Dan Croutons so I'll try those. The GH products have claims of being ph balanced and have a very low sodium content. One brick makes 3.5 gallons of media.
I want to use it in an ebb & flo for veg. The plants will be in 6" net cups and then move to diy waterfarms for bloom. I'll want to use the croutons in the waterfarms. I might go with croutons for the ebb n flo but I need to make sure they wont float up and out of the net pots.
I also want to set up a Dutch style leaching tray for over flow clones. The clones will go staright from the cloner to bloom.
For that I may just fill the tray half full with coco mats and have a plastic wrapped slab on top of the mats with the bottom plastic cut out so the roots can grow thru and into the matting.
I like the way ConqueringLOJ has his dripper and irrigation set up so I'll probably go with something very similar to fit the tray.
It seems that plenty of growers use all sorts of coir only and regular nutes and both have great results.
I want to keep my nutes simple so I'll go with Floranova with Plant Success Soluble & Molasses every two weeks

The slabs are pretty cool... I hope you'll do a journal?

I've got the Cocotek drying... the pH may have been balanced but I wouldn't exactly say it was a low salt product

 

[Bandit420]

I finally got a chance to put my hands on several coco products today. My local shop is in the middle of some product change over with some coir products being discontinued and new ones being introduced.
The slabs from GH and the chunky blend from Empire are on the discontinue list so I'm going with these products that should be around for some time.

This is a 9lb compressed block of coir chips & chunks. It's from Hydrofarm and is Omri certified organic. It retails for $10.
I want to use this stuff in diy waterfarms and an ebb & flo tray. For the ebb n flo I may mix it with the brick coir and use fabric bags for the containers. I think the fabric would be a good choice in preventing loose coir from floating around in the rez and grow tray.

For the matting I want to use that in soil filled Air Pots for the bottom liner over the screen to aid in water and soil retention in the pots. I also think that stuff may have a place in all soil containers as a bottom liner to prevent the soil from compacting.

 

[HorseBadoritz]

I finally got a chance to put my hands on several coco products today. My local shop is in the middle of some product change over with some coir products being discontinued and new ones being introduced.
The slabs from GH and the chunky blend from Empire are on the discontinue list so I'm going with these products that should be around for some time.

This is a 9lb compressed block of coir chips & chunks. It's from Hydrofarm and is Omri certified organic. It retails for $10.
I want to use this stuff in diy waterfarms and an ebb & flo tray. For the ebb n flo I may mix it with the brick coir and use fabric bags for the containers. I think the fabric would be a good choice in preventing loose coir from floating around in the rez and grow tray.

For the matting I want to use that in soil filled Air Pots for the bottom liner over the screen to aid in water and soil retention in the pots. I also think that stuff may have a place in all soil containers as a bottom liner to prevent the soil from compacting.

High Bandit, thanks for giving this a goose. So the chips are compressed? I've been reading that the bigger chunk brands seem to work better because of more airspace compared to the finer stuff.

I know the Cocotek is pretty fine, so I'm going to put 3" of chunky perlite in the bottom of the hempy bucket, then cut the Cocotek with 25-30% perlite.

I might try a bucket with less perlite in the mix, because one of the things I want the coco for is water retention.

 

[Bandit420]

High Bandit, thanks for giving this a goose. So the chips are compressed? I've been reading that the bigger chunk brands seem to work better because of more airspace compared to the finer stuff.

I know the Cocotek is pretty fine, so I'm going to put 3" of chunky perlite in the bottom of the hempy bucket, then cut the Cocotek with 25-30% perlite.

I might try a bucket with less perlite in the mix, because one of the things I want the coco for is water retention.

The chunks are only compressed in the package. The package is only about 12"x12"x5" and there's about as much in there that would fill up a Fox Farm OF bag of dirt if it was loose.
I like the idea of the chunky grade coco especially for the waterfarm. From what i hear it's supposed to drain and retain water like hydroton.
It looks like the finer the grade the less frequent waterings are needed.
An ebb n flo with hydroton might need several flood cycles a day but the fine coco may only need one per day.