Is this a cal-mag issue?

[Phattsacks]

Growing in soil with Fox Farms Ocean. Everything looked great until 3 weeks back when it switched to flowering. At the time, we had a heat wave of 100 degrees so thought at first that it was heat stressed. Water has proper ph. Going light on the Nutes. Never seen this before but this is first outdoor grow. Already looked for nutes and no bugs other than a larger spider I found hanging out, but no webs. Any help is appreciated. Seems to just be a few leaves at a time doing it.

 

[Sierra Cowboy]

Hey Phatt. That is not Cal/Mag, Cal/Mag makes the leaf yellow with green veins, see my journal and you will see a Cal/Mag def. plant . I would go to problems , pests and disease control thread under the grow tab to better diagnose that issue, I am no expert but it looks more like a pest issue to me perhaps spider mites.

 

[Phattsacks]

Thanks Cowboy. That was my first thought too but couldn’t find any solid signs. I also figure that since it’s been 3 weeks since first seen the damage that an infestation would have grown larger but still seems to be a few leaves here and there. Have a 2nd plant growing next to it, different strain but has none of these issues. My past run ins with mites were always indoors so probably made it worse but they seemed to spread prett quickly and to all plants. Will go back and do some more looking with the jewler’s glass to see if anything is there.

 

[TorturedSoul]

There is no element called "cal-mag" . There's calcium and there's magnesium. What the person described in post #2 is a magnesium deficiency. This can be caused by an insufficient about of magnesium, obviously. It can also be caused by improper pH, which would prevent the plant from accessing the element.

It can also be caused by... too much calcium. The ratio of the two elements is important, too, and if this gets out of kilter, simply - and blindly - adding more of both elements could end up causing trouble instead of alleviating it. . . .

 

[Sierra Cowboy]

There is no element called "cal-mag" . There's calcium and there's magnesium. What the person described in post #2 is a magnesium deficiency. This can be caused by an insufficient about of magnesium, obviously. It can also be caused by improper pH, which would prevent the plant from accessing the element.

It can also be caused by... too much calcium. The ratio of the two elements is important, too, and if this gets out of kilter, simply - and blindly - adding more of both elements could end up causing trouble instead of alleviating it. . . .

Geez Tortured soul, I was trying to answer the mans question" is this a Cal/Mag deficiency" no where was it stated that they were one and there is a / between indicating two different substances. Your response seemed a little hostile, just saying !

 

[TorturedSoul]

<SHRUGS>. If I'd been feeling hostile, I'd have ignored yet another thread about the "cal-mag" lie.

Geez Tortured soul, I was trying to answer the mans question" is this a Cal/Mag deficiency" no where was it stated that they were one and there is a / between indicating two different substances.

If you were, in fact, intending to make a new cannabis grower aware that they're two separate things, it probably wouldn't have hurt to expressly state it. Or... you know... in mentioning a calcium deficiency and a magnesium deficiency "as two separate things," maybe you could have told the poor guy what a calcium deficiency looks like, too, instead of only listing symptoms of a magnesium deficiency when you discussed "cal/mag," lol.

Hey, Phattsacks, I'm stuck accessing the forum via a cell phone at present, so I cannot easily add one of the many deficiency & toxicity charts that have been posted and reposted here over the years. But there's a thread that deals with this kind of thing (and which should probably be considered to be required reading for every cannabis grower). Here's the link:

Cannabis Plant and Pest Problem Solver - Pictorial

Here is a ready reckoner for Cannabis plant and pest problems. It has been put together by a master grower. I have edited for content and added to as needed. I hope you learn from this treatise. I have been doing a lot of research on sick plants and also helping out others a lot on sick plants...

www.420magazine.com

I'm sorry that I can't give you specific help, but I'm going blind in one eye, have 20:120 vision in the "good" one, and am using a 5" display. Having color-perception issues doesn't exactly help, either. I'm slowly getting used to zooming text and "sliding the view every which way" in order to read the text in a thread, but trying to do the same with a photographic image generally only serves to make my headaches worse. I'll have to tinker with my old laptop again and see if I can get the power cable to make a useful connection to it (tripped over the thing one too many times and broke whatever it is inside the laptop that the cable connects to).

 

[Phattsacks]

Great reading tortured! Best detail I have seen and I have been scouring the net for info as well everyone I have shown it too in person has given a different guess and don’t want the risk of a guess. Sorry for the cal-mag comment but was writing it quickly & have always termed it that way from the product in the past, but do know there is a difference. After reading through all of it, the one that seems actually closest is a PH problem. About the same time it started, I did switch my ph & ph down brand cuz of availability. Other than a few fan leaves at a time, it seems to be doing fine.

 

[TorturedSoul]

In no particular order:

I occasionally come off as seeming to be a bit of an asshole. There's probably an easy to figure out reason for that .

Language - and use of same - can sometimes... be a different thing to different people. As a very broad example, 99.9+% of the posts here are in English, as the majority of the members and staff are located in the United States and other countries where that language is the primary one in use. Nonetheless, with the number of members we have, even a minority can equate to a lot of people who do not use it as their first/main language. It might be the second, third... even possibly the fifth language they've learned; they might not have the same proficiency we have (should have? ). Commonly used English-language slang might not be common at all in their world. Many people don't even use contractions like we do and, therefore would think/say, "I do not understand," instead of, "I don't understand." A person might even have NO working knowledge of English and, instead, be relying on some kind of translation website to facilitate communication. Having owned old Japanese motorcycles and their accompanying owner's manuals, lol, I know that... things can sometimes get lost in translation. I try to be clear I'm regards to what I'm attempting to communicate to others (with varying degrees if success, I suppose).

These threads "live on in perpetuity," so to speak. I've been a member here for about 10½ years, and I can remember referencing threads that were several years old when I joined; I (very) occasionally even see new activity in some of those old threads show up in my list of subscribed threads, even now. A thread might get read by a great many people over time. You seem like you can easily understand the replies you're getting, but that might not be the case with the person who ends up reading it next week, or sometime in the next decade. And those people might not... You're wanting help with an issue that does not appear to be a calcium- or magnesium-related one. But someone in the future might end up "here" via a web-search engine. <SHRUGS> Maybe a clarification of sorts will be helpful to them, who knows?

I'm glad you understand that "cal-mag" (or "cal/mag") means "calcium AND magnesium." I have one of those "both" supplements. I use it, but rarely. I'm more likely to reach for the Epsom salt to treat (or prevent) a magnesium deficiency, or the calcium nitrate to treat (or prevent) a calcium one. I don't recall offhand what the commonly accepted "correct" ratio between the two elements is. I'm terms of parts per million, I think it's something like 5Ca:1Mg for optimum cannabis plant health. Whatever it is, one assumes that most plants are already receiving some amount of each of those two elements. IDK... It's like preparing a great meal, sort of. You might want a little "sweet" and a little "savory." The ultimate success of the dish can be influenced not only by how much of various spices you add, but also in what ratio.

How is the drainage situation with your plants? Have you added anything to the Ocean Forest product? Most people add perlite to help with drainage, generally 25%, 33%, something like that. If they don't, it can lead to issues (cannabis doesn't do well in waterlogged soil, and does best when given a thorough watering and then the soul is allowed to dry out (but *not* to dust, lol), rather than being given just a little water but too often).

Extreme temperature... Temperatures over 100°F are brutal, especially when a plant is in a (black) container instead of "in the ground." Moisture evaporates faster. Plus, the plants transpire a lot more moisture via their stomata, as a means of self-cooling. You might, therefore, decide to use less perlite. And you'd probably be right to do so... But it's still important to have a good bit - both to help with the aforementioned drainage and to help prevent soil compaction. If the soil is too sense, the plant suffers due to inability of the roots to access oxygen. Plus, when soil is dense and/or compacted... Water flows by way of the easiest path - and with this kind of soil condition, it's not uncommon to end up with a couple of "water channels" through the soil and much of the water missing most of the root system. Er... You may or may not already know this.

High heat is both an issue in and of itself, and can make other issues more significant. Being cold and wet doesn't cause the flu (et cetera) - but if we spend a few days in that state, it certainly lessens our resistance to such things.

A lot of pH adjustment products use the same basic ingredients, so a change in brands might not be much of a factor. On the other hand, not all do - and they're probably mixed at various concentrations.

Have you calibrated your pH meter recently?

A well-buffered soil can deal with minor (or even not so minor) pH swings. The soil you're using has lime in it to help with this. I've read of issues due to insufficient amounts, but it has been years and one hopes they've become much more consistent since then. Still, some folks choose to add a little extra. Not a huge amount, maybe a tablespoon per gallon of soil, if I remember correctly. I don't know how necessary it is. It probably depends on things such as the total length of the grow (and whether the plant is going to spend most of that time in the same container/soil). It's always a good idea to mix the soil well before using it, just in case the ingredients didn't get mixed sufficiently when it was bagged up. Those small, cheap "kiddie pools" are useful for this kind of thing. If you have a Big Lots or Ollie's store in your area, it'll probably have some at the end of your local "hot weather season." If it's hot there all year, lol, you'll probably have to pay the regular MSRP.

Uh... Maybe I should have put this one right at the top of this message, but: Hi, I'm Tortured Soul, and I've been known to ramble... a bit .

Good luck with your plants!

 

[Sierra Cowboy]

Wow Great write up ! I wish I would have had this information a few weeks back when I was chasing my plants issue, Thanks for the enlightenment.