newbie help

[matscom]

hi, Im first time grower looking for some advice.
i currently have a hybrid clone 80% sativa 20% indica,
24/0 in veg in coco, indoor tent with 250w light and extraction fan.
temp 22°c - 27°c and RH 40% - 50%.
nutrients canna coco and superthive.

so here's my problem i got the plant 1 week ago and was told to give it a feed that night. the following day the leaves started to curl and hook

so then the next feed was with just superthive, then next feed with nutrients still looking dry. i follwed this with just water and the coco seems quite moist. the plant now seems to be very dry at the bottom with a couple of dead fan leaves. The healthier leaves appear to be losing their colour.

any advice would be greatly appreciated.
mat

 

[Dutty Panty]

Let dry out before watering. And only give nutrients every third feeding till she bounces back. So

Let dry out
Water only water
Let dry out
Water
Let dry out
Water with nutrients.

 

[Dutty Panty]

Also welcome matscom check out my journals and start yourself one. Also post in introduce yourself thread

 

[BuddroGreen]

What is the pH? when using coco the pH should be 5.7-5.8

I would mix nutrients at 1/2 strength of canna bottle directions, after nutrient solution is all mixed, then pH the nutrient solution to 5.7-5.8 and feed plant. I would just use your Canna base nutrient without the Superthrive until you get your plant back on track.

Also, in coco you should supplement Cal-Mag (Calcium & Magnesium) get yourself some General Hydroponics Cali-Magic, it's a little cheaper than Botanicare Cal-Mag+ .

Usually when the tips of the leaf curl under like that it's called "clawing" and is usually from too much Nitrogen (toxicity).

Here is a Coco Guru with some really good videos, and if you post in his thread he will answer any coco questions you may have.

How I grow in coco Youtube videos and pics

Here is the Coco Forum:

Coco Growing

 

[matscom]

Cheers guys i shall heed your advice. thanks for the quick response and warm welcome I'll check out the youtube link. thanks

 

[Cannabelle]

Hugs Matscom,

I see at least 4 different ongoing issues:
--Possible transplantation shock;
--Heavy, unaerated soil;
--Beginning of a potassium deficiency and other nutrient deficiencies;
--White mineral build-up around inner edges of your pot.

At first glance, the wilting and death of leaves looks like your plant is suffering from transplantation shock or other systemic, root zone shock like a severe ph swing or oxygen depletion. Do you know the ph of your watering solution?

Coco coir by itself is too heavy to allow for healthy root structure. It needs some amendments like the addition of perlite, coarse rock, small wood chips, horticulture sand, etc. Without amendments to give roots air pockets, every time you water coco coir, you'll end up suffocating your plant slowly because the roots need oxygen.

Coco coir is a great, soiless base, but again it needs amendments and a little more potassium in the feed. Coco tends to bind to potassium. I can see the beginning of potassium deficiency leaf twisting is some of the fan leaves as well as other deficiencies probably due to a combination of over watering, poor soil structure, unbalanced PH and the beginning of root rot.

The white mineral residue around the inner rim of the plant makes me wonder if the mineral content of the water is too heavy, the plant was over fed at sometime, or the pot was reused and not washed out.

Dutty gave you great, simple advice as a first step to helping your plant recover. Letting the coco dry out for a few days will help aerate the coco. Check your water PH or use distilled water until you can get a decent ph monitor for the moment. Prune the dead and dying leaves at the base of the leaves. Give your plant at least a week to recover before transplanting it into a more root friendly amended cannabis growing medium. Keep posting updates.

Meanwhile, visit 420's How to Grow Marijuana section to learn more.

Best wishes

 

[Dan Ultra]

Great advice from both Dutty and Cannabelle!!

 

[Antics]

What is the pH? when using coco the pH should be 5.7-5.8

I would mix nutrients at 1/2 strength of canna bottle directions, after nutrient solution is all mixed, then pH the nutrient solution to 5.7-5.8 and feed plant. I would just use your Canna base nutrient without the Superthrive until you get your plant back on track.

Also, in coco you should supplement Cal-Mag (Calcium & Magnesium) get yourself some General Hydroponics Cali-Magic, it's a little cheaper than Botanicare Cal-Mag+ .

Usually when the tips of the leaf curl under like that it's called "clawing" and is usually from too much Nitrogen (toxicity).

Here is a Coco Guru with some really good videos, and if you post in his thread he will answer any coco questions you may have.

How I grow in coco Youtube videos and pics

Here is the Coco Forum:

Coco Growing

I 100% agree on the PH. That should be checked first by running some PH 5.8 water into the plant, and checking the runoff PH to see where things stand.

But I wouldn't speculate on deficiencies or toxicity yet, as many problems will simulate other problems, which can be a giant headache to track down.

Like what appears to be a Magnesium deficiency could be simple PH lockout. However I don't see N toxicity. That curling is likely a shock or PH issue. It's difficult to overwater in coco, so overwatering currently isn't something I'm considering.

 

[Dan Ultra]

Antics, do you grow straight coco, or a coco mix? Reason I ask is cuz I hear straight coco does not drain well at all, so in theory you could easily overwater. I am not too familiar with hydro, so don't jump on me if I am completely mistaken here. Lol

 

[Antics]

Antics, do you grow straight coco, or a coco mix? Reason I ask is cuz I hear straight coco does not drain well at all, so in theory you could easily overwater. I am not too familiar with hydro, so don't jump on me if I am completely mistaken here. Lol

Coco with about 4 quarts of perlite. I saw a lot of coco growers doing this, and suggest it, so I just listened to them. And I use no vermiculite in my mix.

Currently, I can have my mix fully saturated until runoff. Watering is spread out to ensure even saturation using a bottle with holes in the lid to simulate a shower head.

The next day, the mix can be given a gallon of water (6 gallon pots), and it will absorb an additional 1/3-1/2 gallon, with the rest becoming runoff.

People said to treat it like hydro, so I am

 

[BuddroGreen]

Coco is a form of Hydro, you can water multiple times a day and still have 30% oxygen content in root zone. When Coco drys out it causes all kinds of problems, and even root death.

 

[Antics]

Awesome video brother. I might be changing how I do things, instead of watering once a day with a gallon, water twice a day with 1/2 gallon each time.

Thanks!

 

[BuddroGreen]

Awesome video brother. I might be changing how I do things, instead of watering once a day with a gallon, water twice a day with 1/2 gallon each time.

Thanks!

We're all here to help each other. The video came from the link I posted earlier, but here it is again

How I grow in coco Youtube videos and pics

He has a great one on deficiencies in coco

 

[matscom]

Thanks for the advice, there's so much to take in and tonnes of information within these forums.
My ph has been a bit under what has been recommended (around 4.5 -5.0 the owner of the mother has told me it was used to 5.8), im upgrading to a truncheon this Friday along with a few other bits of kit and mentioned nutrients.
also I've clearly over watered her! so the advice on letting her dry out is the first thing I'm going to follow. it was also pointed out to me that the light was too far away.

so from what i understand with the ph being too low she's not able to absorb the nutrients and with the over watering her the roots can't get any oxygen.
would that be right?

 

[Antics]

Thanks for the advice, there's so much to take in and tonnes of information within these forums.
My ph has been a bit under what has been recommended (around 4.5 -5.0 the owner of the mother has told me it was used to 5.8), im upgrading to a truncheon this Friday along with a few other bits of kit and mentioned nutrients.
also I've clearly over watered her! so the advice on letting her dry out is the first thing I'm going to follow. it was also pointed out to me that the light was too far away.

so from what i understand with the ph being too low she's not able to absorb the nutrients and with the over watering her the roots can't get any oxygen.
would that be right?

I've been here over a year I think now, and I probably don't know even 1/8 of the information on the site yet. There literally is tons of it.

Here's another great link for you man.. tons more info to help give you a headstart on growing: How to Grow Marijuana Everything You Need to Know

And you last question, you are 100% correct. It's called PH lockout. In soil, and in hydro, there are two separate ranges the PH has to fall into. If the PH creeps outside that range, certain nutrients will become 'locked out' and the plant can no longer absorb them.

You can see what I mean in this chart:

Keep in mind that soil is on the right, and pretty much everything else.. hydro, coco, hempy, aero, etc.. is on the left.

Now if we assume that I was correct in diagnosing a Magnesium deficiency (which I may or may not be correct.. but just as an example) We look at the chart, and see Mg is absorbed in hydro (coco) between around 5.8-10 (but we never want a PH of 10 in hydro, as it affects other nutes) So if you are in fact showing an Mg deficiency, we can guess that your PH might be too low, which is why I jumped right into suggesting that you check your PH, and verify proper calibration of your PH meter.

 

[BuddroGreen]

Thanks for the advice, there's so much to take in and tonnes of information within these forums.
My ph has been a bit under what has been recommended (around 4.5 -5.0 the owner of the mother has told me it was used to 5.8), im upgrading to a truncheon this Friday along with a few other bits of kit and mentioned nutrients.
also I've clearly over watered her! so the advice on letting her dry out is the first thing I'm going to follow. it was also pointed out to me that the light was too far away.

so from what i understand with the ph being too low she's not able to absorb the nutrients and with the over watering her the roots can't get any oxygen.
would that be right?

pH has been your problem 4.5 - 5.0 is to acidic for cannabis, bring your pH up to 5.8 keep it there every time you feed. Water every day giving 10%-15% pot size in nutrient solution to plants, treat coco like hydroponics and keep saturated. When you water every day, you are actually flushing out old nutes & and putting fresh oxygen into the root zone, when the plant gets older and stronger you can water more, the plant will let you know when it wants more.

Nutrients are a lock and pH is the key that unlocks them to the plant, 5.8 is optimal in hydroponics for all the nutrient elements to be available for use by the plant.

Watch those videos, they are very educational.

 

[matscom]

Cheers for the links,
I haven't given it anything for the last 48hrs, the coco appears to be drying although still moist.
how long would you say to leave it?
Also when i do water it should that just be plain ph adjusted water or is it going to require nutrients if these have been locked out?
thanks matt

 

[BuddroGreen]

Start watering once a day with 1/2 strength pH'ed 5.8 nutrient solution until your plants get back on track, then as they get bigger and demand more you can water them more than once each day with nutrient solution.

Mix you nutrient solution, and then pH the solution to 5.8, always like that. The reason the plant was locked out is because your pH was in the 4.5 - 5 range, the elements in the nutrients were locked out to the plant because of pH. once lock out occurs, you will see all kinds of deficiencies, also not watering coco and having it dry out can cause all kinds of nutrient salt build up, causing lock out and deficiencies.

Coco has some interesting compounds in it that keeps your roots from getting root rot and love beneficials, since the water is sitting in the coco fiber not aerating it's self like DWC with oxygen being pumped in, again coco holds 30% oxygen fully saturated...it's really virtually impossible to over water coco as long as there are drain hole/slots and it drains to waste (DTW).

 

[Antics]

Cheers for the links,
I haven't given it anything for the last 48hrs, the coco appears to be drying although still moist.
how long would you say to leave it?
Also when i do water it should that just be plain ph adjusted water or is it going to require nutrients if these have been locked out?
thanks matt

Buddro is right on the money. He has some solid advice there for you brother.

And just to give you an idea, I'm growing in coco now. My plant is in a 6gal/about 22L pot, I was watering DAILY, with 1 gallon of 1/2 strength nutes, slowly working up towards 3/4 strength. After seeing a video Buddro posted, I am now watering twice a day, 1/2 gallon each time, and I have no problems with overwatering. It seems almost impossible to overwater.

Now if this was soil, the plant would be sick in the first week.

 

[matscom]

With thanks to you guys we're back on track now with full strength nutrients.

Now she's been topped and pruned a little.