newsisnoise
New Member
i'm curious if anyone has used carbonic acid to lower their pH. i figure non-sodium carbonated water has "some" of this and could be useful to lower pH.
Thoughts?
Thoughts?
pH adjustments
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Flurple
Nug of the Month 3rd Place Winner (Nov 09')
im a grow noob but have a background in chemistry. unless im missing your point...carbonic acid is basically
"Carbonic acid (ancient name acid of air or aerial acid) has the formula H2CO3. It is also a name sometimes given to solutions of carbon dioxide in water, which contain small amounts of H2CO3. The salts of carbonic acids are called bicarbonates (or hydrogen carbonates) and carbonates. It is a weak acid. Carbonic acid should never be confused with carbolic acid, an antiquated name for phenol.
Carbon dioxide dissolved in water is in equilibrium with carbonic acid:
CO2 + H2O ⇌ H2CO3
The hydration equilibrium constant at 25°C is Kh= 1.70×10−3: hence, the majority of the carbon dioxide is not converted into carbonic acid and stays as CO2 molecules. In the absence of a catalyst, the equilibrium is reached quite slowly. The rate constants are 0.039 s−1 for the forward reaction (CO2 + H2O → H2CO3) and 23 s−1 for the reverse reaction (H2CO3 → CO2 + H2O).
***Carbonic acid is used in the making of soft drinks...(LOADED WITH CO2)***
inexpensive and artificially carbonated sparkling wines, and other bubbly drinks."
ya most of that is "bla bla bla"
but it sounds like it is good for lowering pH but the fact that it is saturated with CO2 i dont like it... roots like oxygen, not CO2 (i cant say for sure CO2 will be introduced but im not familiar with the reactions of carbonic acid and soil/roots/water(based on pH) because of this, i think you are better off using propper pH down/up for plants
"Carbonic acid (ancient name acid of air or aerial acid) has the formula H2CO3. It is also a name sometimes given to solutions of carbon dioxide in water, which contain small amounts of H2CO3. The salts of carbonic acids are called bicarbonates (or hydrogen carbonates) and carbonates. It is a weak acid. Carbonic acid should never be confused with carbolic acid, an antiquated name for phenol.
Carbon dioxide dissolved in water is in equilibrium with carbonic acid:
CO2 + H2O ⇌ H2CO3
The hydration equilibrium constant at 25°C is Kh= 1.70×10−3: hence, the majority of the carbon dioxide is not converted into carbonic acid and stays as CO2 molecules. In the absence of a catalyst, the equilibrium is reached quite slowly. The rate constants are 0.039 s−1 for the forward reaction (CO2 + H2O → H2CO3) and 23 s−1 for the reverse reaction (H2CO3 → CO2 + H2O).
***Carbonic acid is used in the making of soft drinks...(LOADED WITH CO2)***
inexpensive and artificially carbonated sparkling wines, and other bubbly drinks."
ya most of that is "bla bla bla"
but it sounds like it is good for lowering pH but the fact that it is saturated with CO2 i dont like it... roots like oxygen, not CO2 (i cant say for sure CO2 will be introduced but im not familiar with the reactions of carbonic acid and soil/roots/water(based on pH) because of this, i think you are better off using propper pH down/up for plants
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- #3
newsisnoise
New Member
That's what i was thinking too, that CO2 isn't beneficial to roots, as it isn't readily usable to the roots. But i've come across these studies here....
CO2 on the roots
CO2 on the roots part 2
CO2 on the roots part 3
These suggest that plants can absorb CO2 through the roots, hence my curiosity.
Btw Flurple, it warms my heart to see serious science added to the discussion. Brilliant!!
CO2 on the roots
CO2 on the roots part 2
CO2 on the roots part 3
These suggest that plants can absorb CO2 through the roots, hence my curiosity.
Btw Flurple, it warms my heart to see serious science added to the discussion. Brilliant!!
billybudtoker
New Member
i'm curious if anyone has used carbonic acid to lower their pH. i figure non-sodium carbonated water has "some" of this and could be useful to lower pH.
Thoughts?
just went out and purchased some Ph down for my new grow but on my bagseed practice I was using vinegar which works good,: but I know not the consequences of long term use. Best to spend around 7 bucks for some Ph down.
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- #5
newsisnoise
New Member
how well does the vinegar work? i would imagine it's quite fast, but i'd be concerned it was too acidic.. experiment time.
i suppose you can pick up some pH down from any hydro store, eh?
i suppose you can pick up some pH down from any hydro store, eh?
Flurple
Nug of the Month 3rd Place Winner (Nov 09')
then again diluting the vinegar will reduce its potency but for use on plants its well worth the purchase...organic or chemical pH adjustment solutions
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- #7
newsisnoise
New Member
am i correct in assuming that pH ups and downs are not organic? i really don't know what they use for them..
Flurple
Nug of the Month 3rd Place Winner (Nov 09')
i use advanced nutrients for my feeds and all the nutes are straight up chemicals...the pH up and down as far as i know ar not organic but many are...(lime, potash, worm castings, bat guano and bonemeal are all organic, hope i gave you a clue about your goal
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- #9
newsisnoise
New Member
man flurple, you've been awesome. the water at my house is pH 8-8.7 most of the time. so, you know, that's kinda a problem. haha. i've been using lime to some effect, but anything i can learn to help is a god-send.
here's an example of my pH troubles..
How'd I do?
i think that's part (at least) of the browning on my tips..
here's an example of my pH troubles..
How'd I do?
i think that's part (at least) of the browning on my tips..
Chopper
New Member
My tap water is also @ 8.6 or so. 1/8 cup of white vinegar in 5 galons will lower it to about 6.4. Lemon juice will accomplish the same thing. As far as being a long term solution...? I haven't had problems yet with lemon. I need to do a flush today, and I'm using vinegar to lower 25 gallons. I don't expect troubles in such a diluted concentration, but we'll see.
I personally use citric acid to lower my pH, and it doesnt even require that much, very very very tiny amount to get 8.5+ to 6.0-6.5. and its cheap
FredFlintston
New Member
In the reef aquarium world there is a popular saying (and coral are very sensitive to nutes ph, etc.)....."the solution to pollution is dilution", I would presume the same is true here?
