If it were not for the modification of my discomfort, by the THC effects (recreational?), I would not get any relief to speak of. By fooling my brain into thinking the pain feels like nothing uncomfortable, at all, I get relief! Pain is, in fact, all in the head! Cut off our heads and we would not feel it! That being the case,only, if we could stay alive without circulation to our heads!
Why Medical Marijuana Makes Sense For Chronic Pain, A Doctor's View
If it were not for the modification of my discomfort, by the THC effects (recreational?), I would not get any relief to speak of. By fooling my brain into thinking the pain feels like nothing uncomfortable, at all, I get relief! Pain is, in fact, all in the head! Cut off our heads and we would not feel it! That being the case,only, if we could stay alive without circulation to our heads!
Smokeater
Well-Known Member
I was a Firefighter/Paramedic for a long time full time and have NEVER seen any harm come from Marijuana. I've seen plenty of other O.D.'s on other drugs, but not on Marijuana. The absolutely worst thing I've seen is smoking themselves to sleep with no repercussions. But I have seen people drink themselves to death thru alcohol poisoning. If alcohol is legal, then so should marijuana. It's safer and does not do the damage that alcohol does (Not only can you kill yourself with it, but it also damages internal organs that can't be reversed). If I had to pick the safer of the two, It would definitely be weed.
Weed is safer than water: you can't drown !
Smokeater
Well-Known Member
Radogast, I completely agree with you, Marijuana is (as far as I know) the safest drug for the symptoms that Medical Marijuana is used to treat (and a lot more). I'm just disgusted with the way Illinois implemented the program. It's obvious they don't want the "trial program" to work. It ends in 2016 of a 4 year "program" that they wouldn't let us use it for the first three years (at least up by me near Wisconsin). I think it's time to start writing letters again to fix this (or at least attempt to). I also want to say that you are running a great thread here and getting the word out. So thank you for the thread!! It's great and informative.
Heather De Ath
New Member
If you are a patient then you are not a recreational user. Medical and recreational can not be combined. Medical is to treat a condition. Recreational is to "get high" out of a normal state.
Heather De Ath
New Member
If you are treating a medical condition [even if doing it illegally] then you are not a recreational user.
Going Down
New Member
I disagree! Even for those who are recreational users, they do get medical benefits out of smoking weed if they know it or not!
With all possible respect, RudyRuderalis, the division you express between recreaton and medical reminds me of the division between male homosexuals and female homosexuals in the 1970s.
You express yourself similar to the lesbians who tried to distance themselves from the male gays.
To non-supporters, the distinction doesn't matter.
But the lesbians somehow thought they could advance their cause by distancing themselves from the men. Those gay men who did publically distasteful things like frequent BDSM clubsm gay bath houses, and wear handkerchiefs of different colors and keys on different sides of their waist.
Trying to seperate themselves led to wierd moments where womens groups denied dykes and claimed all lesbians were lipstick lesbians. They remind me of recent moments like 'smoking without inhaling' and taking marijuana in forms that don't 'get you high.'
The lesbians of the 70s DID NOT gain social acceptance by going their own way, they only achieved legal progress on the coat tails of gay men. It was in unification that they found strength.
I am AGAINST medical marijuana patients trying to distance themselves from recreational users. While there is an obvious urgency of need between a cancer patient and a teenage toker, in all cases they are trying to improve their lives by partaking of the multiple positive benefits of marijuana. I personally believe the mental and physical health benefits to the teenager toker are vitally important to the health and progress of our nation in the next generation.
You can fool yourself, and others into thinking you are "different" than other marijuana users, but all you are doing is dividing us up into categories that allow the authoritarians to 'divide and conquer.'
We are all marijuana users on the same spectrum. I embrace the use of marijuana by everyone leading us to a happier, healthier future !
You express yourself similar to the lesbians who tried to distance themselves from the male gays.
To non-supporters, the distinction doesn't matter.
But the lesbians somehow thought they could advance their cause by distancing themselves from the men. Those gay men who did publically distasteful things like frequent BDSM clubsm gay bath houses, and wear handkerchiefs of different colors and keys on different sides of their waist.
Trying to seperate themselves led to wierd moments where womens groups denied dykes and claimed all lesbians were lipstick lesbians. They remind me of recent moments like 'smoking without inhaling' and taking marijuana in forms that don't 'get you high.'
The lesbians of the 70s DID NOT gain social acceptance by going their own way, they only achieved legal progress on the coat tails of gay men. It was in unification that they found strength.
I am AGAINST medical marijuana patients trying to distance themselves from recreational users. While there is an obvious urgency of need between a cancer patient and a teenage toker, in all cases they are trying to improve their lives by partaking of the multiple positive benefits of marijuana. I personally believe the mental and physical health benefits to the teenager toker are vitally important to the health and progress of our nation in the next generation.
You can fool yourself, and others into thinking you are "different" than other marijuana users, but all you are doing is dividing us up into categories that allow the authoritarians to 'divide and conquer.'
We are all marijuana users on the same spectrum. I embrace the use of marijuana by everyone leading us to a happier, healthier future !
Sadly, Illinois has taken baby steps so far.
My guess is, with the high quality ditch weed history of Illinois, and the international movement to decriminalize and legalize cannabis, Illinois will catch up.
and thanks, but it's not my thread
Jacob does a good job gathering news from all over. I couldn't do that job well without rearranging my life. I appreciate his sacrifice.
I have a sister who was recently diagnosed with MS, I also have an older sister who has had MS for close to 30 years now. The difference between the 2 sisters? The one who got MS 30 years ago has never once smoked or consumed pot, while my other sister has been an avid recreational smoker since her early teens. When she asked the Dr. why it struck her so late in life, the DR. told her that he believed that her smoking pot all those years had held it at bay and it was not till she got older and her body not as strong that it could no longer hold it at bay. Just an FYI recreational use has its place too, I believe in the medical field they call it "preventative medicine"
cleanslate
Well-Known Member
Radogast's reply to this comment is simply brilliant.
Medical vs recreational is a false dichotomy born out of the oppression of prohibition. Cannabis was able to come out of the shadows of prohibition and gain a small toehold of legality because of its remarkable healing powers. Because it was able to do for suffers of serious diseases and conditions what conventional drugs (masquerading as real medicine) are incapable of doing. It was the grassroots patients, growers and advocates, not the learned medical establishment, that made this possible.
Labeling cannabis as as drug plays into the hands of prohibitionist agenda. Those who support the legitimacy of the healing herb should not concede to the false dichotomy of medical vs recreational. Cannabis is not a drug, but rather a plant that is an important nutritional supplement (especially for the endocannabinoid system); a highly nutritious food and last and not least the quintessential medicine like no other. Pharmaceutical drugs and alcohol are not worthy to stand in the shadow of cannabis.
Only a limited number of medical conditions qualify for medical cannabis cards. This leaves millions of others with equally serious conditions -- and not so serious conditions -- unable to legally obtain cannabis who have the right to treat themselves with cannabis as medicine. Many others simply want to use cannabis to maintain their health and prevent the onset of serious disease (such as cancer) and even be able to eat raw cannabis as a highly nutritious food, especially the seeds.
I use cannabis to help maintain my health and while doing that cannabis gives me the additional gift of enhancing my sense of wellness by supplementing my natural endocannabinoid anandamide (the bliss molecule) with its own (THC) bliss molecule.
There are so many other injurious or detrimental side effects to long term opioid use to treat any type of chronic pain. Prescription medications in general and pain killers and opioids specifically can and do cause: Accidental death from overdose, breathing and heart problems, accidents and falls due to dizziness and drowsiness, physical addiction, emotional & mental dependence, increased tolerance to most pain relievers, sleep disorders, osteoporosis & tooth decay, and bowel dysfunction. All of these are recognised and documented by numerous studies, the AMA & DEA among others.
I personally have been diagnosed with osteoporosis and have lost all my teeth DIRECTLY due to prescription opioid use. After over 25 years of "medical treatment" I am in much worse condition than ever. It has only been in the last few months, after getting off of opioids completely thanks to MMJ, that I have been able to get out of bed on my own for the first time in years. I can go outside for a little while now and have hopes of actually becoming a somewhat productive individual FOR THE FIRST TIME IN OVER 25 YEARS.
The physical benefits of MMJ are obvious to most and fairly easy to point out but what about the psychological benefits? If you have never experienced the devastation of becoming a totally dependant problem to your loved ones, or of learning your child will never be without pain or ...(so many other situations) you will never know the the feeling of NOT being an anchor holding everyone you know and love down in a constant state of poverty and insecurity, you will never know how bad things can get and therefore never understand the magnitude of the benefits to MMJ
I personally have been diagnosed with osteoporosis and have lost all my teeth DIRECTLY due to prescription opioid use. After over 25 years of "medical treatment" I am in much worse condition than ever. It has only been in the last few months, after getting off of opioids completely thanks to MMJ, that I have been able to get out of bed on my own for the first time in years. I can go outside for a little while now and have hopes of actually becoming a somewhat productive individual FOR THE FIRST TIME IN OVER 25 YEARS.
The physical benefits of MMJ are obvious to most and fairly easy to point out but what about the psychological benefits? If you have never experienced the devastation of becoming a totally dependant problem to your loved ones, or of learning your child will never be without pain or ...(so many other situations) you will never know the the feeling of NOT being an anchor holding everyone you know and love down in a constant state of poverty and insecurity, you will never know how bad things can get and therefore never understand the magnitude of the benefits to MMJ
Smokeater
Well-Known Member
Sadly, Illinois has taken baby steps so far.
My guess is, with the high quality ditch weed history of Illinois, and the international movement to decriminalize and legalize cannabis, Illinois will catch up.
and thanks, but it's not my thread
Thanks Radogast for pointing that out. Sorry Jacob, I didn't notice the name at the beginning of the thread, You make some excellent points in this thread now that I've gone back and read all them. Between you and Radogast, you guys have made some good points.
Smokeater
Well-Known Member
The thing is that when your on opiates, you are essentially doing hero*n and hero*n is certainly one of the hardest drugs known to man to kick, so just because they take the active ingredient of hero*n and condense it down to pill form doesn't make it any less addictive and hard to ween off of, so anything that you can do to help your symptoms without taking opiates is a good thing. I never understood why so many doctors just hand out opiates like candy knowing full well just how addictive they are, especially when their are other options in the form of a far more less addictive natural plant with virtually no addictive side effects? Maybe they just want people addicted to pill form hero*n so they can keep lining their pockets with big pharma money, IDK?
Rudy, I feel your pain about having IBS brother, I was about 12 years old when they told me I had IBS so I had it most of my life. In about 2003 my symptoms got so bad that I felt like someone was stabbing me in the gut with a red hot knife on a daily basis, to the point where I was leaving work everyday because I couldn't even stay on my feet. So I kept on going to the doctor about it, and going back and going back and kept being told it was IBS. So I finally decided to go to a gastroenterology specialist to have testing done and after a CT scan they found out that it wasn't IBS after all, I had diverticulitis which is a tear in the colon membrane that forms a bubble in your colon and that food particles collect in which gets infected and if left untreated can actually burst inside of you and kill you, in fact they said you have a 80% chance of dying if it happens while your in the hospital, much less if your at home and they can't rush you straight to surgery. Point being, you may want to get them to look and make sure that's not what you have brother, just to make sure. I wound up going under the knife and having about a foot of my colon cut out of me. My colon specialist told me to start taking 2 TBSP of Benefiber every single day which keeps everything moving through your digestive track smoothly like it's supposed to while at the same time reducing your cholesterol. So I did that and and I haven't looked back, my stomach pains are virtually gone now. I highly recommend it brother. In fact I recommend it to everyone because it actually keeps your colon healthy naturally and working smoothly which in turn keeps your whole body healthy because a healthy colon is essential to your overall health. FYI, Walmart sells a generic version of Benefiber for half the price and it works just as good, everyone should look into this...Good stuff, it's flavorless and I drink it in my coffee every single day.
The Docs aren't getting the money from ONLY Big Pharma, I've been on opiates since 2000 and the Doc has to have me come into the office EVERY month for new scripts (They can't put refills on class 2 narcotics) and with all the patients he has doing the same thing, he's raking it in hand over fist! I'm positive that is the reason he won't get involved with MMJ. You get a card and don't have to see him every month. He has said he believes in MMJ and every month they do a drug test on me (to make sure I'm actually taking my meds and not selling them) and they come back positive for THC most months (when I can find some) and he never even mentions it except the first time and he said MMJ was good and maybe if I could get more weed, I could even ween myself partially off the opiates, of course he said partially because he wants my business every month. I've looked all over far northern Illinois and can't find one pain doc that is pro MMJ and will write it. My doc has signs up in his office that say he doesn't now or ever will prescribe Medical Marijuana. What other reason can he have for refusing to prescribe something he has told me he believes in and never will prescribe it other than the money he gets from appointments. It all comes down to the mighty dollar and ignorant beliefs.
420 Warrior
Well-Known Member
If I may? I have been reading some of the post's here and some of them have kinda lost sight of the mission, so here's my attempt to get us all on the same page here;
There really is no difference between "recreational" and "medical" Cannabis use.
The so called "recreational user" uses Cannabis to relieve stress in almost every case, it's a way to melt away the tension and/or stress of everyday life and bring some relief from the day to day crap that gets thrown at us daily and the resulting stress from all that life throws at us over time can be detrimental to overall health in the long run, so by using Cannabis to aid in stress relief, opposed to other prescribed drugs or alcohol is a much safer alternative. Stress is a real medical condition, no matter how you slice it, it has been proven to cause many problems such as depression, heart problems, high blood pressure, IBS and many other complications in overall health over time. So in that respect, Cannabis is certainly a preventative maintenance medication hence making every "recreational" Cannabis user essentially a "medical" Cannabis user.
The "medical" Cannabis user is just someone who has been diagnosed with an actual physical debilitating disease of which and actual doctor has prescribed or "recommended" them Cannabis for it's healing properties. The use of Cannabis for relief of pain, nausea, depression and many other symptoms caused by debilitating diseases is just allot more profound and noticeable than that of less noticeable ailments. It's a beautiful thing and there's no denying what good Cannabis is doing for suffering people every single day.
Now here's the real kicker, and everyone needs to listen up good here!...No matter how we slice and dice and chop it up into little pieces, Cannabis users both "medical" and "recreational" alike have fought side by side, shoulder to shoulder, tooth and nail to combat the oppression, greed and tyranny that have been created as a direct result of Cannabis prohibition for many many years now and for anyone on which ever side of the fence your on to denounce Cannabis use by anyone who chooses for themselves to use Cannabis for any reason, doesn't really see the bigger picture here and (no offense) is being down right irresponsible. Cannabis use a PERSONAL CHOICE ISSUE...It's a matter of CIVIL LIBERTY to use Cannabis as we see fit, it's not for anyone else to choose for us what we decide to put in our own bodies, that decision should be left up to each and everyone of us to choose that for ourselves...PERIOD!
In my personal opinion and I'm sure most everyone will concur, the only people who shouldn't have a choice are kids, because kids brains haven't fully developed yet and they don't have the full capacity to understand all that life has to offer, good or bad, so they shouldn't have access to anything that has psychoactive effects on their developing brains. The only exception to this are those kids that have actual diseases that can be helped by Cannabis and that a doctor has determined needs Cannabis to relieve their symptoms.
To sum up, I know this article was supposed to be about "chronic pain", but Cannabis shouldn't just be limited to chronic pain or any other one ailment, Cannabis shouldn't be generalized at all because it's use is a good fit for anyone who uses it for any reason they see fit to use it for, medical, spiritual or otherwise. The way I see it, It's a simple choice to decide that for yourself.
There really is no difference between "recreational" and "medical" Cannabis use.
The so called "recreational user" uses Cannabis to relieve stress in almost every case, it's a way to melt away the tension and/or stress of everyday life and bring some relief from the day to day crap that gets thrown at us daily and the resulting stress from all that life throws at us over time can be detrimental to overall health in the long run, so by using Cannabis to aid in stress relief, opposed to other prescribed drugs or alcohol is a much safer alternative. Stress is a real medical condition, no matter how you slice it, it has been proven to cause many problems such as depression, heart problems, high blood pressure, IBS and many other complications in overall health over time. So in that respect, Cannabis is certainly a preventative maintenance medication hence making every "recreational" Cannabis user essentially a "medical" Cannabis user.
The "medical" Cannabis user is just someone who has been diagnosed with an actual physical debilitating disease of which and actual doctor has prescribed or "recommended" them Cannabis for it's healing properties. The use of Cannabis for relief of pain, nausea, depression and many other symptoms caused by debilitating diseases is just allot more profound and noticeable than that of less noticeable ailments. It's a beautiful thing and there's no denying what good Cannabis is doing for suffering people every single day.
Now here's the real kicker, and everyone needs to listen up good here!...No matter how we slice and dice and chop it up into little pieces, Cannabis users both "medical" and "recreational" alike have fought side by side, shoulder to shoulder, tooth and nail to combat the oppression, greed and tyranny that have been created as a direct result of Cannabis prohibition for many many years now and for anyone on which ever side of the fence your on to denounce Cannabis use by anyone who chooses for themselves to use Cannabis for any reason, doesn't really see the bigger picture here and (no offense) is being down right irresponsible. Cannabis use a PERSONAL CHOICE ISSUE...It's a matter of CIVIL LIBERTY to use Cannabis as we see fit, it's not for anyone else to choose for us what we decide to put in our own bodies, that decision should be left up to each and everyone of us to choose that for ourselves...PERIOD!
In my personal opinion and I'm sure most everyone will concur, the only people who shouldn't have a choice are kids, because kids brains haven't fully developed yet and they don't have the full capacity to understand all that life has to offer, good or bad, so they shouldn't have access to anything that has psychoactive effects on their developing brains. The only exception to this are those kids that have actual diseases that can be helped by Cannabis and that a doctor has determined needs Cannabis to relieve their symptoms.
To sum up, I know this article was supposed to be about "chronic pain", but Cannabis shouldn't just be limited to chronic pain or any other one ailment, Cannabis shouldn't be generalized at all because it's use is a good fit for anyone who uses it for any reason they see fit to use it for, medical, spiritual or otherwise. The way I see it, It's a simple choice to decide that for yourself.
420 Warrior
Well-Known Member
Oh yea, I'm with ya on this one for sure, insurance companies play into this as well as big pharma. By now, I'm sure most doctors everywhere have read up on the reports coming out of the more liberal MMJ states and for them to just disregard all the good reports and findings of their colleagues is both disrespectful and irresponsible of them, especially if they post anything saying they will "never" prescribe medical Marijuana to their patients. It's purely about greed and has nothing to do with helping and healing patients and goes directly against their hypercritical oath as someone we're supposed to be trusting with our very lives.
IMO, You should confront him and ask just pray tell why he would post something like that, especially if he told you what he did? If it's purely just to maintain his reputation, then he should just not post anything and no one will be the wiser, but if it's because of his kick backs, then it's all about the money and has nothing to do with helping patients. I'd tell him that healing shouldn't always be about money, it should always be about compassion, otherwise he should have gone to law school instead of medical school. If I were you, I'd tell him that he's putting your very life in danger by keeping you strung out on pain killers and that he should have more compassion and an open mind when treating people that trust him to help them and that he shouldn't let greed influence his decisions. Doctors of all people should know better!
420 Warrior
Well-Known Member
Could be fiber? could be vitamins? could be both? Either way, apples alone don't keep the doctor away, that's a cliche. it's a culmination of everything we do that keeps the doctors "at bay" not "away", Cannabis or conventional medicine, no one is immune to health issues and there's not one single person on earth that doesn't have a shelf life, no matter how scared and over cautious we are, we're all destined to cash out at some point, some sooner than others but we all have a destiny with a long dirt nap at some point...point being that life is way too short to deprive ourselves of all the beautiful things life has to offer while were still in this world and no one should ever be allowed to deny us of the things in life that make us happy, Cannabis included!
SpicyCocoLeaf
New Member
I have a troubling history with doctor prescribed opiates myself and medical cannabis has been my truly organic savior!
In defense of an Illinois doctor - "never' is indefensible - "Not now because I don't want to wind up in jail" is a real concern.
So far, two Illinois doctors are facing criminal charges, one essentially for recommending to a new patient as opposed to being a previously established primary care physician. There were multiple office visits, so you know that patient paid through the nose, but according to the prosecutor - it wasn't enough.
In my opinion, it's a real risk to make a recommendation in the jurisdiction of an Illinois prosecutor who wants to make a name for themselves - which is basically all prosecuting attorneys.
So far, two Illinois doctors are facing criminal charges, one essentially for recommending to a new patient as opposed to being a previously established primary care physician. There were multiple office visits, so you know that patient paid through the nose, but according to the prosecutor - it wasn't enough.
In my opinion, it's a real risk to make a recommendation in the jurisdiction of an Illinois prosecutor who wants to make a name for themselves - which is basically all prosecuting attorneys.
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