Guano: A Gardener's Guide

[Retired One]

Introduction​

For thousands of years, guano has been used as a fertilizer. Wars have been fought over it as recently as the 1700's, and in the 1800's the United States government passed a law allow US citizens to occupy any island containing guano deposits, and maintain the sole right to sell it to market. Guano is natures super food. There are a litany of scientific reasons for this, but when you boil all the fat out of it comes down to this, guano is singularly well structured to deliver maximum nutrient uptake. Complimenting that nicely is the fact that they are the most N-P-K diverse organic nutrients and amendments available on the market today.

So in the following guide I'll attempt to explain a number of things.

1) N-P-K ratios and how they are determined
2) Uses of guanos as soil amendments
3) Uses of guanos as teas
4) Uses of guano teas as a base for standard nutrients

Note: This is probably not the best program for new or inexperienced grower. It requires a solid understanding of plant needs throughout the entire life cycle as well as being able to identify plant needs by sight. I've said it before and I'll say it again, I believe this post to be the most useful post, for all growers, on the entire site Cannabis Plant and Pest Problem Solver - Pictorial Got a problem? The answer is in there with pictures to help.

So, we shall begin now. I hope everyone finds this helpful.

N-P-K Values And How They Are Established​

First, due to the large number of companies dealing in guano at the retail level, and the nearly infinite N-P-K combinations that result from that, it was necessary to select one brand to use for illustration purposes. I chose Sunleaves, because they are the most readily available in my part of the world. Sunleaves is OMRI certified, so you can be sure of it's 100% organic content. However, this should not be taken as an endorsement of this brand over any other, it was simply convenience.

Indonesian Bat
​

.5-12-.2​

Jamaican Bat​

1-10-.2​

Mexican Bat​

10-2-1​

Peruvian Seabird​

10-10-2​

So the immediate question is how do we get such wide swings in the N-P-K values. The answer is quite simple actually. Diet. Bats that consume a diet high in fruit, like the Indonesian or Jamaican, excrete a guano high in P. Bats that survive on a diet consisting primarily of insects, like the Mexican, excrete guano high in N. Seabird guano doesn't have a single species source, many different birds contribute to these deposits, and the differences in the diets, and the diet of what the bird's food source was consuming, are reflected in a guano high in both N and P with a good amount of K as well. I want to reiterate that there a numerous companies out there, and their N-P-K values are different, in many cases, very different, and that difference opens all manner of numerical possibilities and this whole thing is numbers.

This was what fired my initial interest in using guanos. I realized that there was no perfect bottled set of nutrients. There was always a need for a little more of this or a little less of that, and all of a sudden the cabinet I keep my nutes in began to resemble a display case at the hydro store I frequent. I also tend to grow multiple strain at once and there are no two strains out there that want the same thing. Very few plants grown from seed of the same strain will want the same thing at the same time, so the flexibility it offered was very intriguing.

So with the understanding of the N-P-K levels, how they are established and the radically different values that can be provided by other suppliers, it's time to move on to preparation and application.

Guano as a Soil Amendment​

A word of caution before we move forward. Guano is, of course, an organic nutrient. However, unlike your preferred bottled organic nutrient, you can burn a grow to a crisp with it. Careful, complete mixing in the soil is essential to eliminate guano hot spots in the soil. Take your time and be thorough or you will pay a price.

Amending soil with guano falls into two categories. Pre-plant and established plant.

Pre-Plant Soil Amendment​

When pre-plant mixing, consideration must be given to the contents of the soil. For example, I'm using FFOF in my current grow. It contains enough nutrient value to supply the plant for the first 3-4 weeks of life, so I tend to use a 1 quart square planter for that period, allowing the plant to become slightly root bound. I then amend the soil with 1-2 Tablespoons of guano per gallon of soil, it pays to err on the side of caution here, some plants are nute sensitive, think Blueberry or Strawberry Cough. This is the first chance you have to kill your grow. Be patient, start with low doses, and learn what the strain will take.

I prefer to use Mexican Bat for this stage. The N is what the plants really want and need at this point. Others prefer to use Peruvian Seabird, liking the substantially higher P rating to help stimulate root growth, but I think it's to hot unless used in tiny amounts. I prefer the Seabird as a transitional topdressing when the plants are transitioning from veg to flower, but still have high N requirements as well as a growing hunger for P.

If you prepare your own soil, experimentation is the rule for you. Start small and move up slowly but regularly until you find the right amount. You know what you are putting into your soil, so you probably understand the N-P-K needs of a soil mix as well as anyone and quite likely are already using various guanos.

Established Plant Soil Amendment​

Established plant soil amendment is just a fancy way of saying top dressing. 1/2 Teaspoon of guano per 1" of planter size. The plant may take more...potentially quite a bit more, but caution is the watchword until you get a feel for the plants reaction. Sprinkle it as evenly as possible over the topsoil and work it in well with a claw, follow with a slow, but drenching, water.

I prefer to do this twice. The first time is about 3-4 days before they go to 12/12. I'll apply Seabird guano to start laying on the P and hardening it to the even hotter Indonesian that's on the way for the peak of flowering. The second is just short of halfway through flowering, when I give it as much Indonesian as I think she'll stand.

Use of Guanos as Teas​

Unlike soil amending, tea feeding is a fast absorption application. I have seen P deficient plants, with stems nearly completely red, be back to normal in 5 hours. This is an area where the structure of the guano lends itself to maximum quick delivery of nutrients.

There are two ways to make a guano tea. The first is directly mixing your guano into the water. For this method you will need:

One or more 5 gallon buckets.
An air pump
An air stone
Heating pad.

This method is quite simple, and can be used by people who have not heavily amended their soil, to provide some measure of time release feeding.

Fill your bucket with warm, not hot, water and place it on top of a heating pad on it's lowest setting.

Insert air stone and plug in air pump.

Dump measured guano into bucket and leave for 24-48 hours.

The resulting tea will look exactly like what it is...semi dissolved pooh, but there is no really detectable odor. Before application this tea can be strained off for use by those who have amended their soil. If you do not strain it off, keep it well mixed during application. This method is hard on air stones, and you will be regularly replacing them.

The second is the tea bag method and it is used almost exclusively by those who have amended their soil to some degree or another or have gotten sick of replacing air stones This method requires the following:

One or more 5 gallon buckets.
An air pump
An air stone
Heating pad
Filtration material...this can be anything from cheesecloth to coffee filters. I use restaurant hairnets provided by a buddy who owns a restaurant. They are the must useful things for this as well as filtering butter, and do a pretty good job as hash screens when tightly doubled up.

Insert your air stone and test.

Place hairnets over bucket, I use three, and push the airline though the nets and reconnect to air stone. You can drill a hole though the bucket for the line if you wish.

Place guano in the hairnets.

I put one net over the top.

Leave this to brew up for a minimum of 48 hours, and then apply.


Both of these methods produce an extremely potent feed. As with just about any nute, the 1/4 to 1/2 to 3/4 to full strength method of stepping up the strength should be applied. Feed rates are 1/4-1/3 gallon per gallon of planter size. Watch closely after the first feed and each resulting step up for signs of burn. Flush quickly and completely if needed.

I use tea feeds as replacements to plain waterings, although every fifth wetting is a plain water soak.

Use of Teas as a Base for Standard Nutrients​

Note: This method should only be employed by those using a completely organic nutrient regime. Those using a chemical organic program should not attempt to use a tea base with their nutrients as serious problems could potentially arise.

Teas bases are an outstanding way to boost specific nutrient values to address a deficiency or a need for more of a particular nutrient.

For example, a plant that is 5 weeks into the vegetative cycle may need more N than the nutrients are providing, so a tea of Mexican bat guano would make an outstanding base to deliver the higher doses of N.

Great caution should be used when employing this technique. Heavy handed application of a tea base/nute mix can cause irreparable harm to your grow.

To use a tea base, brew a half strength tea and strain completely. Removal of all non dissolved material is essential. To this, add your nutrients in stages and mix completely. When using this technique for the first time, careful attention must be payed to the plant. Any evidence of burn at all should be met with a heavy flush, followed by a reduction in strength of tea and nutes by 25%.

Tea bases, while an extremely useful tool for "loading" a particular nutrient, should be used with caution. The combination of the fast absorption and slow release can cause runaway burn issues. It is best to use this technique to head off a potential deficiency. Routine use of this technique is not recommended.

A Note on Castings​

Worm castings are an indispensable component in an organic growers bag of tricks. Whether amending soil or providing a direct feed tea, worm castings have proved their value time and again.

Worm castings were, and for the most part still are, red worm castings. What changed was the diet. Until around 10 years ago, the vast majority of red worm castings were fed a diet of cow manure. Most growers know that while cow manure is usable, it is far from optimal. Around ten years ago, two events conspired to change this. First, was a growing backlash against hog farmers in the state of North Carolina. Brothers and Sisters, a hog farm stinks...from miles away. It's the worst, most disgusting smell you can possibly imagine. There were also serious environmental concerns over the huge waste ponds of hog excrement. Then, in rapid succession, the remnants of two hurricanes passed directly over the eastern portion of the state, the area containing roughly 90% of the states hog farms and a good portion of the state found themselves shoveling pig pooh out of their houses. New restrictive laws were enacted, and the hog farmers had to figure out something else to do with the waste.

Before too long worm farms began popping up alongside hog farms. Interestingly, these farms were not initially interested in marketing castings, they were selling the red worms as bait, and selling the castings as an afterthought to local farmers to fertilize their fields with. Within two years, it became apparent that they were not dealing with an ordinary fertilizer.

Most castings have a seemingly low N-P-K value, 1-1-1 to 4-2-2. Hog manure fed worms had an N-P-K value, established by the North Carolina Department of Agriculture, of 8-18-6. A combination of numbers that is extremely interesting, as a tea of this would seem to be a perfect for a plant from around week 4 until the grow is done. I have ordered a box of these castings and will be experimenting with them further and I'll report on the results.

A Closing for Now​

This is just the beginning of a guide that I'm sure will evolve over the coming months. As I gain more experience with the combinations and applications, I'll post more specific recipes. If I post it, it's been tested thoroughly...nothing here is experimental. I personally enjoy the experimenting process, but have no desire to lead anyone astray by suggesting radical formulations or untested ideas. However, for those with the knowledge and inclination, there is an endless variety of combinations to play with.

Be careful with your preparation. Check your measurements twice. Pay close attention to what the plant is telling you, especially in the 5-6 hours following a feed. Take notes if it helps you keep track of what you are doing. Following those steps will ensure you do no harm.

Many thanks to Soniq420 for his editorial and posting assistance. It's a great help to have someone who knows what they're about looking over things and offering suggestions.

The thread is now open for questions or comments.

 

[HazeSeeker]

 

[The Weed]

Some great Signature link Material. Great job SouthernWeed many will benefit from your hard work. Thanks

 

[Medifreddie]

Hey SW, great "how to". Thanks for your time & efforts. Bless ya man. I switched over to exclusively using the BG's quite some time ago. I began several seasons ago outside using the Indo .5-12-.2 during flowering stage with solid, steady results. When I first began usin it, I was sprinklin a half cup or so dry mix around the plant (5-6footers) then lightly raking in with a hand trowel/rake. My drip system would do the rest.

I found mixing a teaspoon of the BG with a gallon of water, pouring around the entire plant(s) and then runnin the drip system produced even better results. The soluble mix was definitely more efficient not only for root intake but also more economic in terms of using less per feeding.

I also began using the Vital Earth BG 9-3-1 exclusively indoors. I begin feeding my clones at apprx 2 months (8-10 inches) when I put them under the 600w. 1/4 teaspoon per gallon/water apprx twice to 3 times until they reach 2 to 3 ft. I then move them to the flower room where they go on the Indo .5-12-.2 until shortly before harvest.

Ive found that using the high nitro BG in the growing stages helps them go right into the .2-12-.2 without any problems whatsoever. My days of mix n match nutes are long gone. Used wisely as you indicate, the 2 BG's, for me, have been outstanding and simple.

I wasnt aware of your tea process. Interesting. I have just been putting a teaspoon of the BG into a gal jug, fill with water, shake & pour. Ive found, in the flower room, my 3 gallon pots take exactly a 1 gal mix when dry with minimal runoff so the mix stays consistent with each plant/pot. My 600w area plants are in 6 inch pots and I still use the gallon jug mix but less BG. I might try your bucket deal but as of now,"if it aint broke dont fix it" LOL

As per our conversation(posts) not too long ago, I am planning on ramping up to the seabird guano on my next flower run. Should be good...Thanks again bro.... peace n good luck MF

 

[WeedyMcWeedWeed]

after i get a couple grows under my belt, i will be using your knowledge and this guide to use to guanos. i want to go completely organic eventually.

 

[smokinchimney]

sweet thread

Do you have any super soil mixes for an Auto flower strain something I can put on an auto watering setup?

how about the same for a normal strain?

 

[Retired One]

Smokinjimmy, sorry it took so long to get back to you, I was unavailable for about 3 weeks there and just noticed you question.

As far as soil mixes for autoflower strains, you have to take into account that the plant goes straight to flower with little or no veg cycle. That being the case, you need to begin with higher than normal levels of Phos in your mix. You cannot, however, ignore the N requirements of a young and rapidly growing plant. Therefor, amending your soil with Peruvian seabird guano (10-10-2) would be the way I'd go. Start your amending/tea feeding slowly, learning what the strain will take. Remember, you can always add more, but it's the next thing to impossible to take it back out.

With respect to auto watering solutions, any tea could be used in an auto watering setup. However, the dissolved solids seem to begin precipitating out of solution at around 72-74 degrees, so keeping your res temp controlled will be critical. Frankly, I wouldn't recommend using a setup like that at this point, just water them yourself.

In my current journal, I posted one soil mix recipe and several more will be posted as we get to them. You may want to drop in from time to time there and see what I'm working with and doing.

 

[maryjohn]

Would it be bad form to critique this article a bit, from a scientific perspective?

For instance, there is really no need to bubble a guano tea. The N and P salts in the guano are water soluble (if it sounds like miracle grow, it works the same way), and bubbling does absolutely nothing helpful or hurtful. It's just something people associate with the word tea. For guano, coffee would be a better word. Also with straining, there is no point unless you are going to spray it (it clogs the sprayer).

That's kind of a start... if the "sciencey" approach is welcome here, I'd love to introduce some tidbits to maybe change how people see guano a little. I do avoid using it for moral reasons, but I'm a meat eater, so I have no right to be sanctimonious.

 

[Medifreddie]

Would it be bad form to critique this article a bit, from a scientific perspective?

For instance, there is really no need to bubble a guano tea. The N and P salts in the guano are water soluble (if it sounds like miracle grow, it works the same way), and bubbling does absolutely nothing helpful or hurtful. It's just something people associate with the word tea. For guano, coffee would be a better word. Also with straining, there is no point unless you are going to spray it (it clogs the sprayer).

That's kind of a start... if the "sciencey" approach is welcome here, I'd love to introduce some tidbits to maybe change how people see guano a little. I do avoid using it for moral reasons, but I'm a meat eater, so I have no right to be sanctimonious.

MJ, Would love ta read your 'tidbits". I use the bat guanos, specifically the high nitro for veg and the high phosphorus during flower. i dont get into the tea deal either. The BG mixes fine with water, so for me it's mix & go. BTW, say what they may, I still use the Miracle Grow. So, nanner, nanner. I also leave the hi-sci and technincal approach to others. Whatever. I've used chicken manure in my outdoor gardens for years and now used the guanos also. I prefer both over the unending bottles of nutrient mixes and fertilizer concoctions that contain, really, who knows what. IMO, a lot of marketing hooey goin on there.

Not sure where the moral or the meat eater parts fit in as the guano is harvested from the floor of the bat caves, as I understand it and anyone who would eat a bat, well, enough said. In any event, would like to hear your take......MF

 

[Retired One]

Would it be bad form to critique this article a bit, from a scientific perspective?

For instance, there is really no need to bubble a guano tea. The N and P salts in the guano are water soluble (if it sounds like miracle grow, it works the same way), and bubbling does absolutely nothing helpful or hurtful. It's just something people associate with the word tea. For guano, coffee would be a better word. Also with straining, there is no point unless you are going to spray it (it clogs the sprayer).

That's kind of a start... if the "sciencey" approach is welcome here, I'd love to introduce some tidbits to maybe change how people see guano a little. I do avoid using it for moral reasons, but I'm a meat eater, so I have no right to be sanctimonious.

I would not call it bad form at all. As a matter of fact, you are pretty close to dead on. Pretty close. The TDS numbers were nearly identical regardless of how I prepared the tea. The difference was the speed in which they got there. Using the "tea bag" and airstone method, usually had all the good disolved out of the dry guano a little faster, which is helpful if you are running through as much of it as I currently am.

I recomended straining off the tea as a caution against having to much buildup in the soil. Now with most strains, I wouldn't worry to awfully much about it, but sure as God made little green apples, someone would have poured a mixture of tea over some hyper-sensitive strain and cooked the hell out of it. That's why I recomended straining it off. As you get some experience using it across different strains, you'll learn which ones can take it and which ones can't. As I said early on, this is no program for the beginning gardener.

Additionally, I am a huge proponent of foliar feeding, right up to the point of flower developement, so straining it off also has the benefit of allowing the use of the same mix for both methods of application.

With respect to the scientific approach, by all means share...I'm not holding myself out as the final word in all things guano. I may not completely understand the science...I'm just a simple country boy...but others may. This thread was started for just this reason...to educate others, and myself, on the different methods of use. There is, after all, more than one way to skin a cat.

 

[maryjohn]

ok, cool. Let me suggest an alternative approach then: composting all manures, so that N and P salts are not added right on top of the plant, but rather incorporated into a living web. The plant will still need those salts, as it can't get to a the N bound up in proteins and amino acids inside bacteria (and archea). Instead for N you will be using "micro guano" pooped out by flagellates, amoebae, and to a lesser extent, ciliates - right around your roots (the rhizosphere). P will come from the interaction between bacteria and fungi. The game becomes about finding the right balance so things regulate themselves, and the tea or extract you add is now about microbes, rather than salts (like NO3 in guano). It's a new way to look at organics, as being more about the system you create, rather than the ingredients you use.

Should I start a thread? I don't want to look like I am de-legitimizing anyone's system.

but sticking within the conventional method, wouldn't using a hand blender be faster than bubbling? the real purpose is to disperse things, no? Just don't tell the wife. Remember as well, the only food for fungi is the stuff that doesn't dissolve. Fungi are very important to healthy soil. If you are not trying to culture microorganisms, there is really no need to oxygenate water. If you are culturing microbes, I suggest careful research to make sure you are adding enough air. Too low dissolved O2 will favor anaerobic life, and too long a brew will result in a protozoa monoculture, which can gobble up too many bacteria at once and possibly burn your plants, or at the least cause it to release high amounts of N salts in bursts, rather than in a steady flow (the kind of soil population that favors weeds - alas, MJ is not really a weed, we just call it that.)

If what I'm saying sounds cool, check out Dr. Ingham's page.

 

[Medifreddie]

ok, cool. Let me suggest an alternative approach then: composting all manures, so that N and P salts are not added right on top of the plant, but rather incorporated into a living web. The plant will still need those salts, as it can't get to a the N bound up in proteins and amino acids inside bacteria (and archea). Instead for N you will be using "micro guano" pooped out by flagellates, amoebae, and to a lesser extent, ciliates - right around your roots (the rhizosphere). P will come from the interaction between bacteria and fungi. The game becomes about finding the right balance so things regulate themselves, and the tea or extract you add is now about microbes, rather than salts (like NO3 in guano). It's a new way to look at organics, as being more about the system you create, rather than the ingredients you use.

Should I start a thread? I don't want to look like I am de-legitimizing anyone's system.

but sticking within the conventional method, wouldn't using a hand blender be faster than bubbling? the real purpose is to disperse things, no? Just don't tell the wife. Remember as well, the only food for fungi is the stuff that doesn't dissolve. Fungi are very important to healthy soil. If you are not trying to culture microorganisms, there is really no need to oxygenate water. If you are culturing microbes, I suggest careful research to make sure you are adding enough air. Too low dissolved O2 will favor anaerobic life, and too long a brew will result in a protozoa monoculture, which can gobble up too many bacteria at once and possibly burn your plants, or at the least cause it to release high amounts of N salts in bursts, rather than in a steady flow (the kind of soil population that favors weeds - alas, MJ is not really a weed, we just call it that.)

If what I'm saying sounds cool, check out Dr. Ingham's page.

Too cerebral for me. Southern, sounds more like your cup of "tea"...LOL MF

 

[Retired One]

ok, cool. Let me suggest an alternative approach then: composting all manures, so that N and P salts are not added right on top of the plant, but rather incorporated into a living web. The plant will still need those salts, as it can't get to a the N bound up in proteins and amino acids inside bacteria (and archea). Instead for N you will be using "micro guano" pooped out by flagellates, amoebae, and to a lesser extent, ciliates - right around your roots (the rhizosphere). P will come from the interaction between bacteria and fungi. The game becomes about finding the right balance so things regulate themselves, and the tea or extract you add is now about microbes, rather than salts (like NO3 in guano). It's a new way to look at organics, as being more about the system you create, rather than the ingredients you use.

Should I start a thread? I don't want to look like I am de-legitimizing anyone's system.

but sticking within the conventional method, wouldn't using a hand blender be faster than bubbling? the real purpose is to disperse things, no? Just don't tell the wife. Remember as well, the only food for fungi is the stuff that doesn't dissolve. Fungi are very important to healthy soil. If you are not trying to culture microorganisms, there is really no need to oxygenate water. If you are culturing microbes, I suggest careful research to make sure you are adding enough air. Too low dissolved O2 will favor anaerobic life, and too long a brew will result in a protozoa monoculture, which can gobble up too many bacteria at once and possibly burn your plants, or at the least cause it to release high amounts of N salts in bursts, rather than in a steady flow (the kind of soil population that favors weeds - alas, MJ is not really a weed, we just call it that.)

If what I'm saying sounds cool, check out Dr. Ingham's page.

I don't think you are de-legitimizing anything. I believe that we are just using a variant of the same basic idea.

My program now is tailored to an indoor grow, using bag soil. I may be wrong, but it sounds to me like you are building a soil/ecosystem for plants grown outdoors.

That's actually where I started out, grew for 17 seasons that way and my heart is still there. I'll be able to put out 10 plants or so this year...a sad comedown from the glory days...and what I'm reading sounds quite intriguing. My outdoor strain is very hearty, requiring little to give a nice yield, and rewarding with bumper crops if you pay it the slightest attention. The idea of "building" up the plant site is interesting to me, as we didn't do very much to the soil before planting. They were well fed and watered, but soil prep was minimal.

It is going to take me a few days to digest everything on your site link...facinating...but I'll be sure to come back to this when I have a more complete grasp of it all.

I had started to wonder if this thread was ever going to do anything but gather the odd hit, but now there are three of us here all trying to do essentially the same things. Let the ideas flow, I say.

 

[Medifreddie]

"I had started to wonder if this thread was ever going to do anything but gather the odd hit, but now there are three of us here all trying to do essentially the same things. Let the ideas flow, I say."

Hey Southern, sadly I am not in yours and MJ's league in terms of the in-depth mechanics of the "living web". Wish I were but I'm just a fella who tends his garden/plants on a simple level. Whether it be veggies or medicine, my approach is, as mentioned: simple, enjoyable and as with any garden, productive, hopefully. I choose my nutrients & fertilizers based on results and personal choice. That said, the guanos, used in their basic form, work for me.

Gardeners/growers come in many forms and with different levels of expertise and understanding. I suspect, in some cases, in the gardening/growing fields, the less you know may not be such a bad thing under the right circumstances. It is also my opinion, that while I believe the use of guanos is no more difficult to utilize than chicken manure, if I were contemplating the use of guanos and read your post, I would quite possibly feel a bit overwhelmed and settle for something less involved which is not to say your detailed and in-depth step by step tutorial isnt necessary or unappreciated. Simply put, while some folks will relate, I submit the average grower will read it and most likely settle for a bottle of whatever and call it good. Truthfully, Dr Ingham's page hurt my brain. LOL MF

 

[maryjohn]

Inside, oustide ... not much of a difference. You just have to fill in the gaps. You need invertebrates to complete the web (I keep most in a worm bin, but some live in my containers), and you need to simulate bedrock, most likely with rock powders. I'm using mixed "soil" that is not soil at all, but am moving over to mineral based soil in a tub.

The theory sounds cerebral. In practice, I mix up soil, add some amendments, pour on some compost slurry, put it in the container, and wait. I might add molasses or neptune's harvest (very bad for the environment btw) to the soil as it sits. After a while, I plop in a plant, and from then on my job is to just give water, or if things look off, more compost slurry.

The theory stuff is to explain how it works. In practice, it's the easiest way I can think of.

Is it a variation on the same system? Well, yes and no. Life is unstoppable, and your medium is not sterile. There has to be some nutrient cycling going on. The question becomes, is it stable and serving your plant's needs? If you your plant gets hungry without intervention from you, your soil is out of balance. Also, my nutrient cycle involves my kitchen, my worm bin, my soil and my plant (most of which goes back to the worm bin). When using manure from far off places, it's not really a cycle, so much as an extraction. For me the motivation was actually to recycle all my kitchen scraps into MJ, as it lowers my environmental footprint, which is high enough with the lighting. That is not to judge anyone. I eat meat, and that alone gives me no right to preach.

 

[Retired One]

"I had started to wonder if this thread was ever going to do anything but gather the odd hit, but now there are three of us here all trying to do essentially the same things. Let the ideas flow, I say."

Hey Southern, sadly I am not in yours and MJ's league in terms of the in-depth mechanics of the "living web". Wish I were but I'm just a fella who tends his garden/plants on a simple level. Whether it be veggies or medicine, my approach is, as mentioned: simple, enjoyable and as with any garden, productive, hopefully. I choose my nutrients & fertilizers based on results and personal choice. That said, the guanos, used in their basic form, work for me.

Gardeners/growers come in many forms and with different levels of expertise and understanding. I suspect, in some cases, in the gardening/growing fields, the less you know may not be such a bad thing under the right circumstances. It is also my opinion, that while I believe the use of guanos is no more difficult to utilize than chicken manure, if I were contemplating the use of guanos and read your post, I would quite possibly feel a bit overwhelmed and settle for something less involved which is not to say your detailed and in-depth step by step tutorial isnt necessary or unappreciated. Simply put, while some folks will relate, I submit the average grower will read it and most likely settle for a bottle of whatever and call it good. Truthfully, Dr Ingham's page hurt my brain. LOL MF

I can see what you're saying, that's for sure. That page made me read very slow and consult a dictionary at the same time. And you are quite right about the levels of ability and understanding, I just like to keep moving the line forward.

Having said that, I can see some logic in the point you raise. I just don't want to limit the flow of ideas. You may consider your approach "simple", but that in no way means that your results or techniques are less valid than mine or anyone elses. Frankly, I think a convincing argument could be made that we've overanalyzed everything so much we now honestly believe we can speak plant...better than the plant...lmao.

Disregard the overly technical, it may hold no interest or practical application for you, but keep watching and sharing your experience and results, which, after all, are the only two true yardsticks of a grower.

 

[Retired One]

Inside, oustide ... not much of a difference. You just have to fill in the gaps. You need invertebrates to complete the web (I keep most in a worm bin, but some live in my containers), and you need to simulate bedrock, most likely with rock powders. I'm using mixed "soil" that is not soil at all, but am moving over to mineral based soil in a tub.

The theory sounds cerebral. In practice, I mix up soil, add some amendments, pour on some compost slurry, put it in the container, and wait. I might add molasses or neptune's harvest (very bad for the environment btw) to the soil as it sits. After a while, I plop in a plant, and from then on my job is to just give water, or if things look off, more compost slurry.

The theory stuff is to explain how it works. In practice, it's the easiest way I can think of.

Is it a variation on the same system? Well, yes and no. Life is unstoppable, and your medium is not sterile. There has to be some nutrient cycling going on. The question becomes, is it stable and serving your plant's needs? If you your plant gets hungry without intervention from you, your soil is out of balance. Also, my nutrient cycle involves my kitchen, my worm bin, my soil and my plant (most of which goes back to the worm bin). When using manure from far off places, it's not really a cycle, so much as an extraction. For me the motivation was actually to recycle all my kitchen scraps into MJ, as it lowers my environmental footprint, which is high enough with the lighting. That is not to judge anyone. I eat meat, and that alone gives me no right to preach.

I've found the difference in indoor and outdoor growing to be rather extreme, but then I'm just a dense country boy, who once mistook ping pong balls for a Chinese venereal disease.

I have just spent alot of years playing with this and that, learning what works for me and what doesn't. If those years have taught me anything, it's taught me what works for me, may not work for you...or vice versa.

I find your approach facinating, and will be reading more. The idea of manufacturing soil to put in the holes, soil that is completely organic and nutritionally balanced, seems to be a no-brainer to me. However, and I'm in no way trying to impose stringent limits on the thread, I don't want to drift to far from the actual purpose of the thread, which is to introduce people to the idea of using an all organic fertilizer that has been in use for thousands of years.

 

[maryjohn]

yeah, good point. i'll start another thread i guess? is this a safe place to post pics?

 

[maryjohn]

re: miracle grow - I had a "religious" organic phase, and it's over. I no longer believe in angels and demons. i was liberated by science. it is entirely possible to be way more responsible and make safe to smoke buds with miracle grow (takes me back to my first guerilla grow and the drama when a friend poached the buds premature. I was less mad about the theft than the unripeness), and even in my way of growing it is fine to use as long as its used to feed the soil (or compost) and not the plant. this means very small doses. Guano gets you immediate N from NO3, which is a salt, while miracle grow gives you soluble N from urea, ammonium phosphate, et al. These compounds are all related and deliver pretty much the same thing: ionic N and conversion to ammonia. In my book you are either feeding ionic N, or the soil is.

If I were to look down on people who don't do it my way, that would include not only 90% of organic growers, but everyone who uses fertilizers. that would be lonely. so i might push hard sometimes to inform or correct on the science, but i don't see the use in throwing accusations of heavy metals, radioactivity, or any other accusations with dubious science behind them. Even pesticides have their place, as long as the costs are assessed. I have yet to see a scientific assessment of product safety for use on MJ though (it's not like tobacco at all).

 

[Wingman420]

SouthernWeed That is fantastic like MediFreddie and so many others I was always just putting dried guano into gallon jugs 1tsp/gal and now will "brew the pooh."
I also have Birds that I breed and train whose dried droppings have been used in Old Timers Garden's since time immemorial.
Will definitely pass the word to fellow growers that will be instant converts.