Chlorine and Chloromine

[Rifleman]

Us DWC water heads know how much water a plant can drink in a single day. I assume many are like me and have extra buckets of water sitting around letting the chlorine evaporate, unless you have an RO system.

But what if your water company switches to Chloromine? It's my understanding that it will not evaporate out. Or what if you don't have room to have an extra 15 or 20 gallons of water sitting around in the way?

My thoughts as I the day away. Way back when... a long time ago, I used to do aquarium maint. We would pull tap water, treat it with a squirt from a bottle, and pour it into the tanks. Never lost a fish due to bad water. Hmmmm. A dig through wiki and my memory is restored. We used Stress Coat, which claimed to remove ammonia, chlorine and chloromine instantly. Makes sense due to chloromine being derived from ammonia.

Next grow I'm going to do a side by side comparison of treated water straight from the tap vs untreated water that has sat out. For a few dollars a bottle, if it works and I don't have to dodge the four extra buckets in the floor... well, what can I say, I'm a lazy grower.

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[TorturedSoul]

Yeah, chloramine sucks. Chlorine is easy - just pour a capful or two of H₂O₂ into a gallon of (pH >7.0) water and it's almost instantly gone. But to do that with chloramine, you'd first have to break its bonds, turn it back into chlorine and ammonia. Then you could use H₂O₂, but that wouldn't do anything in regards to the ammonia. So hydrogen peroxide wouldn't be a viable solution anyway.

Chloramine also uses up carbon water filters significantly faster than chlorine does (when the water is flowing slowly enough through the filter for it to actually remove all of the substance).

The aquarium product should be a great choice, IMHO. Avoid any "chloramine neutralizer" product that doesn't specifically mention ammonia on its label.

 

[MickFoster]

My city has been using chloramine for over 10 years to purify its drinking water and I use it straight out of the tap - never had a problem.

 

[Rifleman]

My city has been using chloramine for over 10 years to purify its drinking water and I use it straight out of the tap - never had a problem.

That's good to know Mick, thanks. I've always heard it couldn't be done.

 

[Latitude17]

I was pretty interested in checking this out until I read in their product description: "Our unique formula is scientifically proven to reduce fish stress and heal damaged tissue by forming a synthetic slime coating on your fish...".

RO is pretty lazy-friendly, @Rifleman. Makes for amazing drinking/cooking/cleaning water too. May I ask why you're not using it yourself?

 

[Virgin Ground]

Just a quick point.
Make sure it isn't sodium thiosulfate. This is toxic and is the main ingredient in aquarium dechlorinators.
I think API uses it. I'd have to check the msds.
These dechlorinators usually say that they are for ornamental fish. This means not for Aquaponics or fish farming or anything edible.
Vitamin C is your friend here. I think it is a 50 mg tablet will dose a 5 gallon bucket. This is what greenhouses, aquaponics, hydroponics and water treatment plants use. It is safe and your plants can use the vitamin C. They don't need the extra sodium regardless.
Vitamin C will break the ammonia bonds of chloramines and detoxify the chlorine.
Vitamin C is also cheaper.

Happy growing.

 

[Virgin Ground]

I was pretty interested in checking this out until I read in their product description: "Our unique formula is scientifically proven to reduce fish stress and heal damaged tissue by forming a synthetic slime coating on your fish...".

RO is pretty lazy-friendly, @Rifleman. Makes for amazing drinking/cooking/cleaning water too. May I ask why you're not using it yourself?

It irritates the fish making it produce more slime coat. I think the synthetic part is aloe vera.

 

[Growingasmile]

Just a quick point.
Make sure it isn't sodium thiosulfate. This is toxic and is the main ingredient in aquarium dechlorinators.
I think API uses it. I'd have to check the msds.
These dechlorinators usually say that they are for ornamental fish. This means not for Aquaponics or fish farming or anything edible.
Vitamin C is your friend here. I think it is a 50 mg tablet will dose a 5 gallon bucket. This is what greenhouses, aquaponics, hydroponics and water treatment plants use. It is safe and your plants can use the vitamin C. They don't need the extra sodium regardless.
Vitamin C will break the ammonia bonds of chloramines and detoxify the chlorine.
Vitamin C is also cheaper.

Happy growing.

I have ascorbic acid pills aka vitamin c pills, would probably be a bad Idea to add to my water because of potential contaminants and binders but I am tempted to try adding it to an experimental seedling

 

[Virgin Ground]

I looked up the API.
It took me less than 30 seconds to looks at the sds and I can tell you that it isn't safe.
It has carcinogen warnings on the first page.

 

[Virgin Ground]

I have ascorbic acid pills aka vitamin c pills, would probably be a bad Idea to add to my water because of potential contaminants and binders but I am tempted to try adding it to an experimental seedling

Those are fine. Any binders are food grade.

 

[TorturedSoul]

Vitamin C will break the ammonia bonds of chloramines and detoxify the chlorine.

Yeah, but then what happens to it? Does it become part of molecules of it and whatever you've just added, or does it remain in a state in which it can <BLEEP> with one's nutrient mix?

 

[Virgin Ground]

It is taken up by the plant as a form of ammoniacal nitrogen. I think you would have to have excessive chlorine/chloramines for it to be a problem.
You do need to watch the pH with it as it is an acid. Sodium ascorbate won't change the pH but the plant has to deal with the sodium. Sodium ascorbate is used on large amounts of water to negate a pH drop. Ascorbic acid is used on smaller amounts, like aquatic and hydroponics where smaller amounts are used and it's easier to control pH.

 

[Emilya Green]

A little goes a long ways... One vitamin c tab will dechloramine an entire bathtub of water. A bathtub... hmm.. a perfect multi gallon mixing bowl. Works faster when it is warm too.

 

[Virgin Ground]

One could also use a small aquarium filter on a bucket filled with activated carbon. This will remove chlorine/chloramines and some heavy metals.

If you are going the vitamin C method and are still worried about ammonia, you can use the same filter method with zeolite. Zeolite can hold 1000 times it's weight in ammonia or something ridiculous like that.

I tend to think that most people think they have a chlorine/chloramine problem when their water falls within normal standards safe for all life, barring you live on the coast where there is more chloride and sodium.

Chlorine is an essential nutrient. when I top my aquarium off, I don't use any dechlorinators. I am adding 1gallon to a 40 gallon. The amount of chlorine is so small it dissipates and is not going to harm my fish. The small amount of chlorine helps my plants and fish to perform vital processes. If I'm changing anything over a few gallons I will use something. The plants can take much, much more than the fish can.

Fertilizer companies use muriate of potash. This supplies chloride and K to the plant.
Ideally you want to keep your chloride around 70 ppm. At 150 ppm you want to irrigate for excessive sodium. This is a ball park for most plants.

I hope I was clear and didn't ramble too much, I've been under the weather, so to speak. I'm finding it hard to concentrate.

 

[Rifleman]

I appreciate all the replies y'all, now we have a thread offering some alternatives for those folks screwed with chloromines.

I've got a whole house carbon filter, and a salt pellet water softener and I can still smell the chlorine in my water. I just let it sit around a few days to evaporate out. I don't use a RO system because 1) I dont have a place to set it up where i have both water and electric as my water pressure isn't enough to push it through & i'd need a pump. 2) I'm cheap and just can't bring myself to waste the bypassed water. 3) Just never saw the need.

@Virgin ground mentioned it might contain sodium thiosulfate (STS). For those of you not aware, STS can be used to produce feminized seeds by entirely spraying a female plant, reversing it to produce female pollen. The pollen will produce all fem seeds, however the plant you spray isn't good for anything except the pollen after spraying. Discard it after collecting the pollen.

Thanks again for the responses everyone. I hope it helps someone in the future.

 

[LiberalThinker]

Another alternative, used by brewers for the same job is to use 1g of potassium metabisulphite in 100L water. The plant can use the reaction products, potassium and chloride ions as well. Apparently, it has little effect on pH. It is mainly used in brewing to sterilise water at the rate of 700mg/UK gallon. In 100L of water I doubt it will have much anti-microbial action but if you are using bacteria/ fungus it maybe a good idea to give it a really good vigorous stirring to knock out any dissolved sulphur dioxide before adding your stuff. Some people are sensitive to sulphur dioxide, which may cause them to cough, so do it in an open space if necessary. It doesn't knock out loads but you can smell it. I've used it for wine-making in the past.

 

[growingathome]

I had thoughts around this recently, and I decided to try a new product. Before ordering I called them to confirm that nothing in it would react with fertilizer, and they confirmed this. I did about an hours worth of research, and I picked the best choice. I'll be trying it myself this week.

Seachem Prime Fresh and Saltwater Conditioner - Chemical Remover and Detoxifier

 

[LiberalThinker]

I had thoughts around this recently, and I decided to try a new product. Before ordering I called them to confirm that nothing in it would react with fertilizer, and they confirmed this. I did about an hours worth of research, and I picked the best choice. I'll be trying it myself this week.
Seachem Prime Fresh and Saltwater Conditioner - Chemical Remover and Detoxifier

What's in that? I've since learned that you can add the potassium metabisulphite incremetally until the water stops smelling of chlorine, which it releases, and just starts to smell of sulphur dioxide, which means the chlorine has gone at that point If you remember how much you put in, you've optimised the dose for your local water. You can also get Campden tablets made with it, of which, one crushed one in 20 gallons should suffice. There are Campden tablets made with sodium metabisulphite which should be avoided.

 

[DrDoob]

I appreciate all the replies y'all, now we have a thread offering some alternatives for those folks screwed with chloromines.

I've got a whole house carbon filter, and a salt pellet water softener and I can still smell the chlorine in my water. I just let it sit around a few days to evaporate out. I don't use a RO system because 1) I dont have a place to set it up where i have both water and electric as my water pressure isn't enough to push it through & i'd need a pump. 2) I'm cheap and just can't bring myself to waste the bypassed water. 3) Just never saw the need.

@Virgin ground mentioned it might contain sodium thiosulfate (STS). For those of you not aware, STS can be used to produce feminized seeds by entirely spraying a female plant, reversing it to produce female pollen. The pollen will produce all fem seeds, however the plant you spray isn't good for anything except the pollen after spraying. Discard it after collecting the pollen.

Thanks again for the responses everyone. I hope it helps someone in the future.

I think you might have it confused with Silver Thiosulfate (STS) which can be used to make pollen on female plants.

 

[growingathome]

What's in that?

I'd just be repeating what's on the amazon page