Constant Problems Lately - Need diagnosis

[MikeKeezy420]

Hello everyone. First time grower and poster, long time lurker. I
have three plants left, two have died. Two Midnight Kush and One super lemon haze.

Here are my tools:

The bottle had 16-16-16 fert in it.

16-16-16 fert and Miracle grow potting soil

Here are the plants:

Here are the close up shots:

super lemon haze showing signs of what appears to be an N deficiency

Same with the oldest plant, the 1st midnight kush

midnight kush started getting these spots recently, he was the healthiest plant until now

Super Lemon haze, older foilage dying off and turning yellow

My super lemon haze just suffering and the N deficiency working its way up even though I feed it the Grow Big, Worm castings, and Foiliar feed.

The tap water PH test

My water that I treated with PH down, it's 7.1, however when i first applied the PH down to my 5gallon bucket of water it was actually at 6.5 which raises an eyebrow.


Some basic stats:

-Soil based medium
-All three in Five gallon pots
-Two were born in october (tallest MK and the Super Lemon haze), one in november
-Very recently all three started having problems showing signs of deficiencies, I had four plants before but my Pineapple chunk died.
-Before I used PH Down, I was just using regular Tap water and letting it sit for 24 hours. I was Tap water, in conjunction with the 16-16-16 and Foxfarm Wormcasting and bat guano. Everything was perfectly fine. Until about two weeks ago.
-250 watt lamp and a fan to circulate air.
-The super lemon haze and the young midnight kush are both topped, the older MK is not.
-I have not purchsed tiger bloom because I want my plants healthy as possible before I bud them.


I'm really at my wits end. I don't want to use the 16-16-16 because when i added the fert, when my Pineapple Chunk was showing signs of deficiency it just accelerated the death. I did the same with the Super LEmon haze but it didnt die, however it's conditioned worsened. When I started adding the treated PH water it seemed to recover but now the N deficiency started appearing on the SLH, and now the others too. I really do not know what do anymore. I need some help and guidance.

 

[Vapedogg223]

to 420 Magazine MikeKeezy420!

First things first...your photos aren't showing properly. Take a look here: Photo Gallery Guide: How to Resize, Upload & Post Photos

Okay, now that thats out of the way I'm going to go out on a limb and say your problem is soil related. Miracle Gro potting soil is notorious for causing problems... It's just horrible for cannabis. There's fertilizer already in it, so you don't want to add any additional nutrients until the plants start to fade. I wouldn't use the 16-16-16 at all. When you do need it stick with Fox Farms.

The other thing I can promise you is that you don't need to pH your water if you grow in soil. With 5 gallon containers the soil mix alone will buffer the pH. Remember most soil mixes are peat based, straight peat has a pH between 3.5 to 4.6, then they add dolomite lime which will raise the pH. Properly constructed potting soil will buffer pH all on it's own!

I would flush them really, really well with straight water. For 5 gallon pots I'd put 15 gallons through each one. God only knows what kind of salts you have built up in there...the fertilizer they add is absolute crap.

After you flush them, I'd just go back to just watering them normally without adding anything, there's likely to be some of the time-released fertilizer still in the soil. I'd love to see you brew some worm castings tea to give them in a couple of weeks. Right now your soil is probably a chemical fertilizer wasteland, If you get some beneficial bacteria in there you'll be amazed how the plants show their appreciation.

 

[miwa]

Check your soil runoff ph...dam mg thats what i am using...it will raise your ph way too high...

 

[MikeKeezy420]

Whoops, I didn't preview my post. Images are fixed. I really don't know what to do. So do I flush 15 Gallons immediately, or over time?

On a side note, the worker at the Hydroponics store said if I adjust my water PH it will directly affect the soils PH.

 

[Icemud]

I agree with most that has been said.... Completely flush your soil, with PH adjusted water...aim for around 6.5 in soil...add a little bit of lemon juice until you reach 6.5ph...don't dump a bunch in, go slowly because you don't want to have to add PH up to bring it back up if you overshoot the 6.5.

Use at least 3x the amount of water as you have soil...for instance 3 gallon pots...flush with 9 gallons of water...at least 2x would be sufficient..

Then let your soil completely dry out before watering again. You probably have too high of a soil PH, which is locking out vital macro and micro nutrients and the only way the plant will feed again properly, is to correct the soil ph..

Even better, if you can get your hands on some organic soil, I would even take it as far as re-potting them if your situation gets worse..but I would first try flushing and then go from there...I definitely am a strong believer in Organic cultivation, you should definitely look into it.... much better results in the end, and healthier for humans, animals, plants and the earth...

I would make sure that all of your feedings from now on are between 6.4 and 6.8PH..Organic soil with a good microbiology usually will buffer itself quite well...but since your using synthetic based fertz and tap water, I have doubts that your soil microlife is doing much at all... over time, soil without proper flushing builds up salts, which will raise the soil ph...once you hit over PH7 your going to start seeing sign's of nutrient deficiencies...

Stray away from that MG and stick with the foxfarms...but hold off for a week after the flush...let the plants regain consciousness first...

Good luck to you and your plants....

Also...Look into starting a grow journal here at 420 mag..!! Its a great way to document your grow, look back into issues with the grow and see where things went wrong, get advice and overall share your grow with other experienced farmers You definitely have great detail!!! Can't wait to follow your journal!

 

[Vapedogg223]

Whoops, I didn't preview my post. Images are fixed. I really don't know what to do. So do I flush 15 Gallons immediately, or over time?

Run it through all at once... you are trying to flush all the nasties out of there. Also, yellowing on the lower leaves is normal. They don't get much light, the'll die and fall off. The lowest branches don't produce much anyway, and many growers lop them off so the plant can focus it's energy on the upper buds, and so you can get better air flow through the plants.

 

[MikeKeezy420]

I read into the guides about the yellowing leaves on the bottom, but the yellowing is appearing on the top too. Which i believe is some sort of N deficiency.

I tried flushing my Pineapple chunk, and it just continued to die so I am hesitant to flush anything anymore. I will give it another go though.

I've already lost one plant, and it was doing beautifully until this happened. Now I am about to lose all my plants. I tried my best but it looks like it is going to fail realistically.

I had a good time and it was good when it was going good. However, I'm close to pretty much about to giving up and just go back to buying from someone.

I spent a lot of money, now i just feel like its about to die and its whatever. I've tried so many things.

 

[Icemud]

Don't give up faith...there hardy plants and with some knowledge and a little TLC, you will have great meds in no time... trust me... On my first grow, before buying anything or even planting anything... I spent 3 months reading, researching and understanding all element's of growing cannabis, and my first grow, in a 2x4 tent, I managed to pull over 1LB of some of the best organicly grown pot I have ever had... Why it turned out sucessful..because I did the research and understood what it takes to properly grow a good plant...

Now does this mean that I don't run into issues...nope..I'm still learning and with each grow I grow... It takes time and experience...weather you read from others experiences and apply what works, or just trial and error till you get it right, your learning

As suggested above, spend some time reading around this site...I have not bought one book on how to grow cannabis, all of the info you need is here... patients is key, understanding the plant is key....and the rest is time...

Try flushing with PH adjusted water...get rid of that PH up/down chemical crap and use lemon juice for PH down, baking soda for PH up.... a little goes a long way so take your time... Flush your plants WITH PH Balenced water of 6.5PH....let them drain and let the soil dry up...should be at least 5 days between feedings in 5 gallon pots at this stage...NO more!! When your soil is dry, then mix up your foxfarm nutrients in your tap water...bubble for at least 24 hours and check your ph....adjust your PH to 6.5...and feed... you should be fine my dude!!!

 

[Vapedogg223]

Yeah, Icemud and I are going to disagree on pHing the water. That's cool, everyone has their own style that works for them.

I never bother to even check pH anymore, and my tap water runs around 7.5-8 depending what wells and reservoirs they are blending on a given day.

I could also point you to Doc Bud's journals... He grows some of the most amazing plants you've ever seen, and has been trying to get soil growers to stop wasting their time pHing for years.

When's the last time you saw a farmer growing beautiful organic vegetables pH his or her water? I just think it's not necessary.

 

[MikeKeezy420]

Thanks Icemud for the support. Ironically i am using at 2x4 tent as well.

I'm flushing it as we speak and i tested the run off, it was at 6.0 to 6.2. Which i think is close to optimal, which might indicate that something else is the matter maybe not the PH. Then again, the water I used had PH down in it.

@nate

That sounds interesting any links to Doc buds journals, I would like to see what he says on the matter if he never PH's and neither do you.

It feels like I'm totally missing something here.

 

[Icemud]

Here is a chart that will help you see how the nutrients are effected by ph...

organicgarden.org.uk

What was the PH of the water before you tested the run off?

 

[MikeKeezy420]

@Icemud

Right now it's sitting at about 7.0-7.1

 

[Icemud]

Yeah, Icemud and I are going to disagree on pHing the water. That's cool, everyone has their own style that works for them.

I never bother to even check pH anymore, and my tap water runs around 7.5-8 depending what wells and reservoirs they are blending on a given day.

I could also point you to Doc Bud's journals... He grows some of the most amazing plants you've ever seen, and has been trying to get soil growers to stop wasting their time pHing for years.

When's the last time you saw a farmer growing beautiful organic vegetables pH his or her water? I just think it's not necessary.

I'm actually agreeing with you.... In organics you do not need to PH adjust...your correct....

This guy is not using organics... therefore PH adjustment is advisable...

Docbud is growing in a very fortified organic soil with a full microbiology...so there is a vast soil life that is taking care of PH buffering...I do the same..no ph adjustment besides bubbling my poop tea.....Organic...

With chemical ferts there is not much of a microbiology colony in you the roots because with harsh salts killing them off, and little organic material or carbs to fuel them in production, they are not doing much to the soil PH... Yes cation/anion exchange thru the roots does help assist in PH adjustment in soil, but most of the soil health is due to the living organisms...which adjust ph, adjust nitrogen and amonium levels.... So for that reason..anyone using synthetic, non organic soil and nutrients...I strongly advise ph adjustment...

Soil growing does not mean Organic.....2 completely different things...

 

[Icemud]

@Icemud

Right now it's sitting at about 7.0-7.1

so your soil ph is sitting a little low...keep flushing until you see your run off come close to the ph of the ingoing water...

going in 7.1ph...coming out 6.1...your soil is pretty acidic..

Keep flushing with that 7.0 water until your run off is reading around 6.5...then let it dry out...that should help your problem...

 

[MikeKeezy420]

Alright i guess i'm going to flush the others as well.

I think if this doesn't work though I'm going to call it quits. Maybe try again somewhere down the line. they were growing perfectly fine since october, but since late december my plants are just dying off one by one.

When I was just using the 16-16-16, Fox Farm Worm Castings and Fish emulsion, and plain 24hr old tap water they were doing fine.

A lot of time and energy spent just fail, it's pretty disheartening especially when they were doing so well before, haha but hey that's life.

Hopefully it works, otherwise i hope attempt number two is my lucky number.

Ultimately I'm just sad cause now they look like complete shit.

 

[Vapedogg223]

I'm actually agreeing with you.... In organics you do not need to PH adjust...your correct....

This guy is not using organics... therefore PH adjustment is advisable...

Docbud is growing in a very fortified organic soil with a full microbiology...so there is a vast soil life that is taking care of PH buffering...I do the same..no ph adjustment besides bubbling my poop tea.....Organic...

With chemical ferts there is not much of a microbiology colony in you the roots because with harsh salts killing them off, and little organic material or carbs to fuel them in production, they are not doing much to the soil PH... Yes cation/anion exchange thru the roots does help assist in PH adjustment in soil, but most of the soil health is due to the living organisms...which adjust ph, adjust nitrogen and amonium levels.... So for that reason..anyone using synthetic, non organic soil and nutrients...I strongly advise ph adjustment...

Soil growing does not mean Organic.....2 completely different things...

You are forgetting that his earlier grows were all with Osmocote Plus, he stopped pHing before he went organic. My first two grows were 50/50 Fox Farm Ocean Forest/Light Warrior and OC+ incorporated with the soil. I still use OC+ and am just in the process of transitioning to organic myself. Right now I have somewhat of a hybrid of the two. I'm convinced the beneficials can play well with synthetics as long as you don't over do it.

Thanks Icemud for the support. Ironically i am using at 2x4 tent as well.

I'm flushing it as we speak and i tested the run off, it was at 6.0 to 6.2. Which i think is close to optimal, which might indicate that something else is the matter maybe not the PH. Then again, the water I used had PH down in it.

@Nate

That sounds interesting any links to Doc buds journals, I would like to see what he says on the matter if he never PH's and neither do you.

It feels like I'm totally missing something here.

Here's his Journals starting with the most recent, They are worth a read whether or not you pH your water!

Doc Bud: All Organic OG Kush SCROG
DocBud - New Room - Super Soil - Etc
Medical Grow
DocBud's Next Medical Grow
MK-Ultra Hempy - C02 - 1000 Watts
Un-Lucky Queen 12/12 Hempy
DocBud's Hempy Grow
My First Grow: Pre Grow

 

[Icemud]

I hope everything works out for you mikeezy!

 

[Vapedogg223]

Alright i guess i'm going to flush the others as well.

I think if this doesn't work though I'm going to call it quits. Maybe try again somewhere down the line. they were growing perfectly fine since october, but since late december my plants are just dying off one by one.

A lot of time and energy spent just fail, it's pretty disheartening haha but hey that's life. Hopefully it works, but if not i hope attempt number two is my lucky number.

Don't give up yet bro! You acted early, they still look really good for the most part. They also seem strong enough to make it with a little help!