Do you start your autos in their final pot?

[datfatboi]

when you're trying to get maximum yield using soil and perlite, do you start in a final pot or up pot with autos?

 

[013]

Yes that is correct - start your autos in their final pot! Autos can be upcanned but they are also easily stunted if/when you piss them off, so it’s recommended to start them in their final container. Emilya has an article that will help you, many have read the first watering document of hers but the 2nd one is equally important Emilya - How to water an auto

 

[Emilya Green]

I do not believe in starting in the final container. Auto's are not as sensitive as people make them out to be and uppotting does not have to be stressful, contrary to the myths surrounding Autos and uppotting. If you believe the hype used to sell autos (an inferior product) in that they are so easy to grow that you don't even have to uppot them, then you will immediately and right from the start, lose control of the watering cycle, unless you have some great skills in judging where the roots are and how to entice them to grow throughout the container with your watering can. Every watering session will be a guess as to whether you are over or under watering your plants in an overly large container and it is incredibly easy to drown the lower roots and stunt or kill the plants when starting this way. Without specialized watering techniques, the roots will simply grow straight downward and will do very little lateral growth needed for increasing the density of the roots.

It is extremely hard to build a rootball, or any sort of superior root structure, without limiting the roots in the early stages, by forcing them to grow denser in a small container, and this is the primary reason we successively uppot from small containers at first, to finally the large final container... so we can build superior roots all through the container. Your final product both in quantity and quality is totally dependent on the roots you are able to entice that plant to grow in the early stages... it doesn't happen automatically, even for an Auto. If you want to start off in the final container and your plant survives your waterings, it will almost always produce less than a plant that has been successively uppotted and watered correctly so as to entice the roots to grow.

 

[NorthernCosmos]

@Emilya - When you say that autos are inferior, do mean the yield, the smoke quality, the growing process, or...? No redeeming qualities at all?

So far I've started all my autos in their final 12 liter pots. I may just take your advice and start my two new Jack Heir autos in smaller pots.

* Would going from 1 or 2 liter straight to 12 liter be "ok enough", or are more stages preferred?

* How do we know when to up pot?

* Should we score the root ball when up potting, or would that be a bit much for an auto?

@datfatboi : I hope you're ok with me adding some Qs for Emilya here - maybe we'll both learn something

 

[Bill284]

when you're trying to get maximum yield using soil and perlite, do you start in a final pot or up pot with autos?

If you use air pots, you can increase root growth and easily upcan,which I believe is paramount to root growth,with absolute minimal damage and stunting of plant growth. They are more expensive than the more popular goto grow bag. Which i still have great success with but to max your autos imo they are worth every extra penny. Happy growing friend.

 

[Justin Goody]

I do start mine in their final container but admittedly (like @Emilya said) it takes some technique to get the roots to chase the water, and easy to do wrong. Way too easy to over or underwater. There’s a fine line of having your soil too moist or too dry when the seed starts too. It takes time to learn or sometimes luck. In my case trial and error got me there. Sometimes that’s the best way.
I will agree partially that autos are inferior as far as THC content, because of the ruderalis. But even that’s slowly changing. And otherwise when it’s all weighed out, autos are superior for my situation. Impervious to light leaks (and power outages) Being fast growing often helps avoid pests and mildew. I average 6 oz per plant in 70 days, and I’ll put my auto version of any strain up against its photo equal grown by an average stoner grower any day.
I don’t have room to go any bigger, just faster. Autos are therefore the way...for me.

 

[Deketx]

Ok Justin, now you've got my attention. 6oz per plant? Please tell me what you're doing to get that. Ex, medium , nutes, lights?
I also start in the final container( 5gal), but I've learned how to water , thanks to Emily, over the last 4 grows.

 

[Emilya Green]

@Emilya - When you say that autos are inferior, do mean the yield, the smoke quality, the growing process, or...? No redeeming qualities at all?

So far I've started all my autos in their final 12 liter pots. I may just take your advice and start my two new Jack Heir autos in smaller pots.

* Would going from 1 or 2 liter straight to 12 liter be "ok enough", or are more stages preferred?

* How do we know when to up pot?

* Should we score the root ball when up potting, or would that be a bit much for an auto?

@datfatboi : I hope you're ok with me adding some Qs for Emilya here - maybe we'll both learn something

Some Autos are actually some pretty good quality, so I am not saying it is a waste of time growing them, but if I had the desire for strongest pot available and I had to choose between a White Widow regular or an Auto, I would choose the regular every time. Not being crossbred with the small non powerful ruderalis plant, the photo would be taller, bigger budded and higher THC content.... so I do consider them to be inferior to photos in those regards.

Since ease of transplant is key so as to not stress out the Auto on transplant, air pots and other hard sided containers make transplanting very easy, and I would suggest hard sided pots for each stage up to the final container for that reason. I would not score or otherwise free up the roots upon transplanting... again to not create stress. In a non auto I have been known to slice the rootball vertically into thirds or quarters, intentionally causing stress, so that the roots go wild when hitting the new soil. I would never even consider doing this with a fast growing Auto. I also think that if you took the time to build a rootball of some sort in the 2L size, you could get by with going up to a 12... but only with an Auto, again because they are so fast growing.

When to uppot is always up to the roots. When the roots become so dense in a particular space that the medium is no longer an effect buffer for holding water, in that the plant can drain all the water you can get the medium to saturate with, in 36 hours or less, it is time to uppot to at least a 3x bigger container... probably 5x bigger for an Auto. Any time before that is rushing it, and defeating the purpose of keeping the roots restrained so they thicken up. I would be willing to bet that in a side by side comparison, a plant started in a final container, even watered correctly, will end up smaller than a similar plant that was forced to form a rootball even at a solo cup size before moving on.

 

[Justin Goody]

Ok Justin, now you've got my attention. 6oz per plant? Please tell me what you're doing to get that. Ex, medium , nutes, lights?
I also start in the final container( 5gal), but I've learned how to water , thanks to Emily, over the last 4 grows.

To learn autos, I just did what @Carcass was doing. I think I'm only about in the middle of the spectrum as far as quantity, though. Other here are easily hitting 8-10 oz in bigger pots.
Once the method is down, constantly upgrading genetics and lights has helped me achieve better yields. I'm not necessarily interested in getting MORE. I grow 4-5 plants at a time, I have plenty of weed to smoke. I want BETTER. Better taste (better terps), better smell, better resistance to disease, better looking,
And for an auto, this Wedding Cake is about as strong as I’ve grown.

Im going to run it again next month under a new light and see if it can get even better.

 

[Deketx]

To learn autos, I just did what @Carcass was doing. I think I'm only about in the middle of the spectrum as far as quantity, though. Other here are easily hitting 8-10 oz in bigger pots.
Once the method is down, constantly upgrading genetics and lights has helped me achieve better yields. I'm not necessarily interested in getting MORE. I grow 4-5 plants at a time, I have plenty of weed to smoke. I want BETTER. Better taste (better terps), better smell, better resistance to disease, better looking,
And for an auto, this Wedding Cake is about as strong as I’ve grown.

Im going to run it again next month under a new light and see if it can get even better.

I'm not looking for as much as I can grow, I'm just thinking I should be getting more from my plants . Right now if I fill 2 mason jars per plant ( cured) I've been happy. But that's not always the case.
But I'd like to maximize what I get since im already putting in the work. I give away most of what I grow, I have 2 friends that use it for medical issues. And a brother that likes free weed, lol.
You mention 2 things I've been thinking about, genetics and lights. There are so many seed Co's out there, it's hard to decide. We all know about the large players but how do really know about the smaller ones? And I'm sure there are some great small breeders out there. Light wise I'm using COB's ( not high end) at only 45w per sq ft. So I might need to upgrade this year.

 

[Justin Goody]

I'm not looking for as much as I can grow, I'm just thinking I should be getting more from my plants . Right now if I fill 2 mason jars per plant ( cured) I've been happy. But that's not always the case.
But I'd like to maximize what I get since im already putting in the work. I give away most of what I grow, I have 2 friends that use it for medical issues. And a brother that likes free weed, lol.
You mention 2 things I've been thinking about, genetics and lights. There are so many seed Co's out there, it's hard to decide. We all know about the large players but how do really know about the smaller ones? And I'm sure there are some great small breeders out there. Light wise I'm using COB's ( not high end) at only 45w per sq ft. So I might need to upgrade this year.

That Wedding Cake was grown under a @Mars Hydro TS1000. I think with coupons/codes that light runs about $130, it’s killer for only 140w.
And for genetics, @Weed Seeds Express is a great company with fast discrete shipping. Not a huge menu like some of the bigger companies, but their selection packs a lot of quality into a small space. I have a 100% germination rate from them so far and have more grows coming up.

 

[Nunyabiz]

Half dozen of one 6 of the other.
Some seem to believe the only way they can get a good root system is constant up potting. Which may be true for them and how they grow in their particular medium.

Myself I plant a germinated seed directly into a 25 gallon fabric pot in LOS with a proper soil tilth with cover crop and as long as my worms aren't totally out of control I have never had a single problem, my roots completely fill up a 25 gallon fabric pot like a peat bog and does so very quickly.
Absolutely zero need to up pot, especially for an autoflower.
I have lots of aeration in my soil, the cover crop roots keep the top several inches very porous, the worms bore lots of holes getting oxygen to the roots and I super oxygenate my water with o2 emitters plus I use aloe vera in my water especially when the roots are developing so my roots grow like wild fire.
Id say if growing in a proper LOS in large pots then plant right into pot, doesn't matter if its a 400 gallon bed.
If you're growing in aerated Coco then id still plant directly into a 5 gallon fabric pot.
If you're in a standard potting soil that's kinda heavy like a Fox Farm etc.. that stays wet then you might have to do the constant up potting.

First pic is day 9
Up to this point i usually water at least twice a day with just a few ounces of very oxygenated aloe vera water in a circle around the plant about 3+" away from plant, I keep soil very moist not wet and make the roots reach out for it for the first week.

This is 18 days later.
Now if my roots weren't growing like mad below ground the plant above ground would not be growing this fast.
If these were autoflowers they would be larger than this and already starting to flower.

So entirely personal preference and depending on medium, a good LOS or coco i think you're better off planting a germinated seed directly in final pot, up potting only complicates matters and serves no real purpose but to add the possibility of stunting the autoflower.
Any other soil and you might be better off up potting and just be very careful as to not disturb the roots any more than need be.

 

[Nunyabiz]

As for autoflower in general i think most of them aren't really ready for prime time genetically.
They are very unpredictable, if you find one thats stable then add that one in your rotation.

The best autoflower I've found so far, the most stable trouble free is a Honey Peach CBD.
I get between 6 to 8oz everytime I grow it and it grows up to over 4" a day.

 

[datfatboi]

I do not believe in starting in the final container. Auto's are not as sensitive as people make them out to be and uppotting does not have to be stressful, contrary to the myths surrounding Autos and uppotting. If you believe the hype used to sell autos (an inferior product) in that they are so easy to grow that you don't even have to uppot them, then you will immediately and right from the start, lose control of the watering cycle, unless you have some great skills in judging where the roots are and how to entice them to grow throughout the container with your watering can. Every watering session will be a guess as to whether you are over or under watering your plants in an overly large container and it is incredibly easy to drown the lower roots and stunt or kill the plants when starting this way. Without specialized watering techniques, the roots will simply grow straight downward and will do very little lateral growth needed for increasing the density of the roots.

It is extremely hard to build a rootball, or any sort of superior root structure, without limiting the roots in the early stages, by forcing them to grow denser in a small container, and this is the primary reason we successively uppot from small containers at first, to finally the large final container... so we can build superior roots all through the container. Your final product both in quantity and quality is totally dependent on the roots you are able to entice that plant to grow in the early stages... it doesn't happen automatically, even for an Auto. If you want to start off in the final container and your plant survives your waterings, it will almost always produce less than a plant that has been successively uppotted and watered correctly so as to entice the roots to grow.

in my experience, i've used both your method 3 times, and the final pot method, i found that in autos i got bigger yields starting in the final pot... even i if i was really careful with uppotting, i feel like it still slowed it down.

here is my theroy: let's say you put your seed in a 500g cup, the roots will first start growing really fast, but once they start realizing there is little space, they slow down growth, but they still grow. yes, this leads to a denser stronger rootball, but in my experience, it slows down growth! i'm a really open-minded and tried following your tips to the last letter, but it doesn't work for me (with FEM'S i do up pot, simply because it's more convenient as you don't really care if you slow down a fem a bit if that means a stronger root system, since you're not limited by a genetic timer)

 

[Emilya Green]

in my experience, i've used both your method 3 times, and the final pot method, i found that in autos i got bigger yields starting in the final pot... even i if i was really careful with uppotting, i feel like it still slowed it down.

here is my theroy: let's say you put your seed in a 500g cup, the roots will first start growing really fast, but once they start realizing there is little space, they slow down growth, but they still grow. yes, this leads to a denser stronger rootball, but in my experience, it slows down growth! i'm a really open-minded and tried following your tips to the last letter, but it doesn't work for me (with FEM'S i do up pot, simply because it's more convenient as you don't really care if you slow down a fem a bit if that means a stronger root system, since you're not limited by a genetic timer)

Whatever works best for you @datfatboi, that is the method to use. I have never seen a slow down upon transplanting of any plant, ever, but I do it very gently and the plants don't skip a beat... instead, I always see a growth spurt immediately upon transplanting and hitting that fresh new soil.

 

[datfatboi]

Whatever works best for you @datfatboi, that is the method to use. I have never seen a slow down upon transplanting of any plant, ever, but I do it very gently and the plants don't skip a beat... instead, I always see a growth spurt immediately upon transplanting and hitting that fresh new soil.

perhaps you could try to do 2 autos in a final pot and 2 autos with your method that would be interesting

that's actually what i'm gonna do next month, 1 auto in the final pot and 1 uppotted.

i tried this last year too and the final pot one yielded around 35% more

 

[Jack420]

I always did final pot coco but would be interesting up potting for a change see how it goes so far my autos get big with out tampering with roots ever n always fill up pot that for sure!

 

[Emilya Green]

perhaps you could try to do 2 autos in a final pot and 2 autos with your method that would be interesting

that's actually what i'm gonna do next month, 1 auto in the final pot and 1 uppotted.

i tried this last year too and the final pot one yielded around 35% more

I am sure that I could manage to get a plant to develop somewhat of a rootball, even starting in a large container. Most people new to this and not knowing how to properly water in such a situation would not have that advantage. Successive uppotting admittedly isn't required to produce some semblance of a rootball, but it sure helps. Restricting the roots consistently produces root mass that is beyond compare... you just can't achieve the same results in open soil, no matter how you water.

A test like you propose, in my grow rooms, wouldn't show a huge difference between methods only because I have studied watering methods, but put in the hands of a new grower of weeds, I think the result of this side by side would be profound. To claim however, that starting in a final will always beat a plant that had been successively uppotted, that I am sure could easily be disproven.

 

[Weed Seeds Express]

That Wedding Cake was grown under a @Mars Hydro TS1000. I think with coupons/codes that light runs about $130, it’s killer for only 140w.
And for genetics, @Weed Seeds Express is a great company with fast discrete shipping. Not a huge menu like some of the bigger companies, but their selection packs a lot of quality into a small space. I have a 100% germination rate from them so far and have more grows coming up.

We strive to get the best genetics, best service and indeed fast discreet shipping. Even though Covid19 is making things hard right now!

 

[datfatboi]

I do start mine in their final container but admittedly (like @Emilya said) it takes some technique to get the roots to chase the water, and easy to do wrong. Way too easy to over or underwater. There’s a fine line of having your soil too moist or too dry when the seed starts too. It takes time to learn or sometimes luck. In my case trial and error got me there. Sometimes that’s the best way.
I will agree partially that autos are inferior as far as THC content, because of the ruderalis. But even that’s slowly changing. And otherwise when it’s all weighed out, autos are superior for my situation. Impervious to light leaks (and power outages) Being fast growing often helps avoid pests and mildew. I average 6 oz per plant in 70 days, and I’ll put my auto version of any strain up against its photo equal grown by an average stoner grower any day.
I don’t have room to go any bigger, just faster. Autos are therefore the way...for me.

6 OZ? can you tell me more? i have insane yields with fem's, but my auto yields always suck, i get around 30 to 100 g from a plant max from autos.... fems i can easly do 300+ per plant