High Brix Hydroponics

Skybound

Well-Known Member
Apologies in advance if the title gassed anyone to believe that somebody finally did it! I am vigorously in pursuit of high brix hydroponics, but I am still at least months away from possible success. Instead, this is my attempt to attract like minds to a common topic to increase discussion and share ideas. I am already fully invested, I make my own concentrates, mix my own chelated micro nutrient blend to whatever trace targets I desire, and aside from the increasing laundry list of organic inputs, I have in play quite possibly the best combination of materials needed to have a good chance to be successful in high brix hydroponics.

Before I get too far ahead of myself, if anyone is interested in learning how to make their own nutrient blend using Hydro Buddy (an app for Windows/Linux), and what my very successful blends are, please see the link in my signature for mixing nutes and using Hydro Buddy. I am free for questions beyond that, but please read at least all of page one. Page 2 is some chit chat, but there is also useful tidbits on page 3. I mix my own nutrient blends beginning to end and am already growing extremely healthy plants with only extremely minor deficiencies. I was already in the process of refining my nutrient ratios when I stumbled onto high brix growing journals and Doc Bud's kit. Much added reading informed me that I was already in pursuit of perfectly balanced feed which is a prerequisite for brix growing. It was then that I stumbled onto this chart posted to THCfarm.

sap-ph.png


I just received my refractometer and learned my brix was around 7%, which I guess is not good compared to DBHBB plants. What they consider high is the high teens, but 12 is considered the benchmark. My aim is around 14%. It will be a lot more than just dialing in the nutes, but it will likely also require a bit of sacrifice too. Not in the sense of lost bud weight, but in the sense of knowing you're not going to be fattening up as much. It's a fine line difference, but the way I understand it is that brix is the measure of sucrose content of the ploem so the less water there is present will skew the sucrose content (brix%) upwards. I believe this is why my plants are so very healthy, but my brix % is still so low. To get it to increase will involve the discovery and adoption of better practices, most of which I am already a proponent of;
  • highly refined nutrient regimen that promotes adequate calcium and potassium uptake
  • monitored nitrate levels
  • monitored magnesium levels. Mag controls the creation of chlorophyl, and carbs and will likely be very influencial in brix in hydro.
  • many organic inputs
  • religious use of beneficial bacteria (for me via ACTs)
  • decreased feeding frequency or increased O2 levels in DWC to promote root growth
  • lowered EC
The last part is a little out of the scope of control and is likely just a happy result of ideal elemental targets. What I mean is that my very good feed charts before delving into high brix pursuits only put a 730 on my TDS meter each res change. Since getting into high brix pursuits, I decreased nitrate a bit, but increased calcium by 20 and potassium by 30ppm more. This is not a simple 50ppm on the meter, but generally speaking would translate into a number closer to 75ppm increase, so my new weekly start is 800 on my meter. I will stay with 800 so long as my tips don't burn, but after that, I gotta decrease some things again to regain good health, before testing new targets again.

Because I now know my leaf sap PH

First Test.jpg


I can make educated guesses about 2-3 different elements to change. I have made lots of great advances and will continue this totally alone if need be, but I do hope to attract like minds, hydro growers and hopefully some organics brix growers that are willing to share their wisdom and experience. I bet if they help us succeed with this, we can learn more about it which in turn might help them futher improve their brix numbers and maybe even harvest more weight in the process? I've received some contention in other threads, but that can be expected when pioneering anything new. Us test dummies are how humans advance.
 
My current topic of struggle is another source of calcium. Gypsum is no good, neither is calcium chloride. I'm currently using Calcium Carbonate powder from Kelp4Less that advertises that it's soluble, but I estimate at least half of it precipitated. I found some videos about mixing pulverized egg shells with white wine vinegar to chemically strip the calcium from the solids so that the solids can be filtered out, but I need to track down how to calculate the ppm of the input weights involved in that process so that I can properly make my concentrate and input the custom solution into Hydro Buddy for use to calculate my different feed charts.

If anybody has any insights about any part of that process, please explain to the best of your ability!
 
Are you adding the calcium carbonate last when you mix? If you mix your calcium into the mix and let it set the calcium will precipitate. That's the reason most companies sell a separate calmag bottle.
 
Are you adding the calcium carbonate last when you mix? If you mix your calcium into the mix and let it set the calcium will precipitate. That's the reason most companies sell a separate calmag bottle.

I add the CC dead last and shake the jug before adding it, but that seems a moot point. I bought a gallon of vinegar and I'm going to track down some mixing info to see if I can chemically strip the calcium from the carbonate. I don't mind a few grams or a light particulate dusting that settles, but what happens with the CC is just not acceptable even though I'm using it. I expect I might even see more cal deficiencies like I did when I though Biomin was adding Ca to my res.

Have you ever done the CC/vinegar thing?

 
So I've been spending hours each day just web searching various term combos in hopes of locating the numbers I need for a custom calcium solution in Hydro Buddy, but I use Duck Duck Go because I am sick of Google being caught spying and working with hostile governments, but for shitz-n-gigglez, I search on google "how much calcium is in calcium acetate" and boom, my answer right there up top, plus all of the other references. Epic fail for DDG. I might have to go back to being spied on and exploited, lol.

Calcium Equivalents.jpg
 
If my math is right, Calcium Acetate has 25.3% of actual calcium that can be taken up by the roots. Last night, I added 378.6 grams of calcium carbonate powder in with 1 gallon of white vinegar in a 5gal pail, and put it into veg so the kids can play in the CO2 for a day, lol. FWIW, the math is verified in Hydro Buddy by setting the weight to 1 gram, the volume to 1 liter, the result is 253ppm (mg/L).
 
I want to get a VPN. There's a lot more I'd like to do on the web that I just don't .... because ...., lol.
 
have you read this article ?


Several times. I LOVE Max Yield articles, so much so that I usually read the ones of topics that I study several times to better digest the contents. I'm surprised college students love to smoke pot so much because when I study while baked, I always lose my place, my mind wanders, I forget what I've read etc. It does make studying both fun and a PITA at the same time.

Thanks for thinking of me and I'm happy to see some RIU peeps here on 420! Welcome! Just a heads up though, 420 mods might moderate that link due to MY being a competitive Mag. Also, I get grief some times when linking to cheap products as 420 has a lot of sponsors that they try to promote. It makes a lot of sense as a business model, but can be cumbersome to the free members like us that are just trying to learn. I think the mods do a great job finessing the difference between corporate requirements and not being too anal about certain things like links to very useful information. Still, from time to time I get a post removed or edited to omit a link or something to that nature.
 
For record keeping, here is my before and after feed charts. The before chart was pretty conservative with the ratios, but the after high brix chart I feel to be fairly liberal with Ca and K. Both are a bit above my comfort zones, but I feel safe still, but am monitoring closely. I made a gallon of Calcium Acetate that's about done. I will just switch out the calcium carbonate directly with the acetate and adjust the dose in hydro buddy, but the targets remain the same for now.

Before chart;
Full Grow Targets.JPG



After chart - High Brix Experiment - test ratios - 1
High Brix Targets.JPG


Edit - For the record, the Before Chart was growing me fantastic super healthy plants. My only concerns then were Ca and K being just a touch too low and N being a touch too high, but I wanted to use these targets just a bit longer to ensure myself of the symptoms I was seeing as they were extremely minor. I do also suspect something to do between copper and Zinc, but I have to do more research before I want to change my micro levels. I hate to use the phrase "close enough", but chelated micros are not cheap, and because this formulation is "close enough", I'd like to use the whole volume of it which will buy me some more months to research this topic more intimately. It might be just that I add a bit more trace in the ACTs, but like I said, I need to do more reading and digging. At any rate, if it turns out that Test 1 was too much, I'll know ideal levels are between the old and the new which would greatly define what is unknown.
 
lets See how they take it now.

I'm not even sure I've ever seen a Ca or K toxicity, but compared to the GH and other shit I've used in my years, then later analyzed, I'm sure I'll be in great shape. I do hope that my attempts to supplement Ca with carbonate, then acetate will pan out, because Hydro Buddy just smashes numbers and it assumes the substance is available as advertised, so it will use less Cal Nite in the process. I went through this a few months ago when trying to use chelated calcium in the res. That shit would work great as a foliar but did not dissolve in the res and everything just precipitated right out of suspension. It's times like that when you believe you're doing good, but end up doing twice as bad that I am nervous about. I have this stuff in all my reservoirs and as soon as I get the acetate filtered and bottled, I'm going to prematurely dump all my res's and rebuild so not to keep taking a chance on the CaCO3.
 
Cannabis use large amounts of C & K so I don't think it will burn them at your levels. Just keep an eye open for Micros getting locked out. If you could find what Dyna-Gro uses to chelate their calcium with you'd have it made. They found a way to prevent calcium from precipitatin.
 
If you could find what Dyna-Gro uses to chelate their calcium with you'd have it made. They found a way to prevent calcium from precipitatin.

All I've ever seen Ca chelated with is Amino Acids which I have and will add into my concentrates. but I'll check it out. FWIW, most other chelators are poisonous to plants in higher doses. It's fine to chelate trace metals at below 5ppm, but obviously calcium goes way above 100ppm, or in my case, a measly 120 to start. Though, when my Ca was at 100, I only ever got some late bloom splotching, but never any tip burn so I suspect I was very close. My aim is to get better visual queues, then test the sap's PH and try to tweak the elements until I can dial into 6.4 PH. I suspect by then the brix will be roughly 8%, maybe more. To drive it higher, I will have to devise a feeding schedule that is less than my current, but more than Doc Bud's which I think is on average once weekly? In hydro, I will need at least once a day, but maybe I'll need to dust off the Arduino stuff and build a timed outlet so I can do shorter feeds than 15 mins from a mech timer. Still though, a lot more reading to do.

I am considering rev engineering Doc's guaranteed analysis to try to better understand his nutritional approach to see if I can glean something from that. I can load all of the foliars and drenches into hydro buddy, then use each according to his chart to consider what's happening or what desired effect is sought after. The beauty of hydro is that I can test theories in hours-days which is why I think I can get high brix in a reasonable amount of time, hopefully before I intend to quit growing. IDK if I will ever grow again, and if I don't, I would really like to exit on a very positive note.
 
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