High Brix Refractometer Results Log & Data Thread - Post Your Brix Levels Here

[Graytail]

Re: High Brix refractometer results log and data thread.. post your Brix levels here.

Excellent, Icemud!

Those look like good sample leaves.

That's gonna be some really fine smoke.

 

[Icemud]

Re: High Brix refractometer results log and data thread.. post your Brix levels here.

Hey Graytail!! Thanks!

I have a suspicion that you might be into....since your a Brix master too lol

Ok, so I have 3 mystery kush's growing in my grow area....2 of them closer to the light than the 3rd one... therefore the 2 mystery kushes are receiving much more light than the 3rd one due to the position in my tent...

what I found very interesting was both of the mystery kush's in the same position in relation to the lights produced similar brix levels of 21-23...but the 3rd mystery kush which is not receiving as much light was only around a 17 brix level...

All of the plants are clones of the same mother, in the same soil, and get the same nutrient feeding regiments....

What I am considering,, which would makes sense, is brix levels are also based on light intensity.... more intense light, more photosynthesis, more sugars??? just my guess based on my current observation...

Have you witnessed anything like this in your grow? I'm just curious if this is another factor us brix growers should be looking at..

 

[VonDankenhoek]

Re: High Brix refractometer results log and data thread.. post your Brix levels here.

guys here is a relevant convo about brix from a respectable gardening site:

Charles_Dankens wrote:

I think most folks know to follow a basic protocol regarding time of day, sample material, soil moisture etc. I do a lot of farmer's mkt shopping and often test the veggies i purchase. Once in while i take an mj reading but, as you mentioned, it hasn't been easy to make sense of the data.

reply:

That's the problem with using a refractometer for plants (via. petiole or leaf extract), there are too many variables that affect its outcome (many of which are not in the operator's control), no matter how stringent the protocol. So even if the Brix reading itself were without question a sound scientific metric (which it isn't in this use case), it would not be accurate enough to draw sound conclusions.

Charles_Dankens wrote:
Do you think that other disolved solids which are detected in brix readings are relevant to plant health? Or do carbohydrates constitute nearly all of the dissolved solids shown on a refractometer.

reply:

What you asked is really in my mind the biggest flaw in using Brix to divine plant health: that it is affected by not only carbohydrates (sugars), but also strongly affected by TDS (total dissolved solids), because Brix quantifies TSS (total soluble solids).

So Brix measures two main things: TDS and TSS, while TDS comprises part of TSS. So then we should consider what comprises TDS (e.g. ions) and TSS (e.g. sugars), and which one is more helpful in terms of qualifying quantifying (not divining) plant health in terms of quantifiable metrics for plant health and nutrient uptake. And the answer is TDS, not TSS.

Where in this case TDS includes elements (ions), most notability potassium, magnesium, and sodium. But that's only in the sap for Brix, the mineral concentration of the tissue and the sap is far more important than sap alone (the latter has greater variability due to its nature vs. tissue).

And if we really care about TDS, not TSS, then it would follow that using an EC meter like the LAQUAtwin Conductivity Meter (that model at $225) is much better than using a refractometer. Or instead of the flat sensor, one could dilute the sap 2:1 (or greater) with distilled water and use a normal EC meter. However, for data on specific elements like calcium, nitrate, etc., that comprise TDS, we need to use a leaf mineral assay.

Ignoring all the factors I wrote about in my previous posts in terms of the error prone and inaccurate nature of using a hand-held (especially non-digital) refractormeter, what we should be most concerned about in terms of plant health is TDS. And to qualify TDS (i.e. the concentration of essential plant elements) we need to use mineral leaf tissue assay. That's why Brix is the cart while mineral leaf assay is the horse, and we only need the horse.

Now, in terms of sugars from TSS, that can be useful to try and divine the photosynthetic health (rate) of the plant. However, trying to infer e.g. radiation use efficiency (RUE), photosynthetic rate, and CO2 fixation by Brix is very flawed and inaccurate. Better than using Brix to measure plant heath is quantifying chlorophyll concentration, this is what I use in the field (this also allows for tracing of inferred nitrogen status): atLEAF+ handheld chlorophyll meter ($299).

If we want to inexpensively and indirectly infer photosynthetic rate (not by true quantum yield) and thereby the health of the plant, as well as the 'stress' of the plant (e.g. effects of insects and pesticides), then quantifying chlorophyll fluorescence with a chlorophyll fluorometer such as the z990 FluorPen (about $2,500) is a much better choice. And the z995 FluorPen offers quantification Ft, NPQ, OJIP, and inferred (not direct) quantification QY (Quantum Yield) and Light Curve (QY), at about $5,000 to $7,000.

However, to really quantify photosynthetic rate for a very accurate measurement of plant health a one must use a photosynthesis meter (clip) or chamber, which measures CO2 from leaves. An entry model leaf clip style from Li-COR is about $55,000. The least expensive and still scientifically sound photosynthesis meter I've found, for in-field use, is the Q-Box CO650 Plant CO2 Analysis Package from Qubit Systems (at around $7,500).

P.S. The idea of using Brix as most gardeners do (testing leaves and petiole) was created in the late 1900's (circa 1860). There have been great advances in science since then that are better suited for the reasons Brix is used by gardeners in this case (leaves and petioles).

P.P.S. That company Qubit Systems offers all kinds of really great tools for plant and soil monitoring and science at the lowest prices I've ever seen. A Ph.D. biologist runs the company and they manufacture most of their own equipment and cater to colleges and universities that's how they keep prices low. And they also don't try to be the best, like Li-COR (who is one of the best), instead, Qubit Systems tries to offer good entry to middle level scientific accuracy at low prices.

User avatar
spurr
Charles_Dankens wrote:
Spurr i think brix has appeal for gardeners because of its instant gratification and also because it is diy. The brix style practitioners that i chat with use it a general gauge of overall health and also to compare the effects of varying drenches and foliars by taking before and after readings.

Sorry I just noticed this. Before Brix is measured it's important to wash the leaves, ideally with a strong acidic solution (e.g. using pH 3 using citric acid), and then with distilled or deionized water. So residual ions and organic compounds (e.g. sugars from compost tea) do not containment the sample for Brix measurement, as can happen during sap extraction with a leaf press. Also, the press should be thoroughly cleaned between uses, with strong acidic solution.

 

[high 420kwats]

Re: High Brix refractometer results log and data thread.. post your Brix levels here.

2 top leafs sap from stems of leaf.

 

[Icemud]

Re: High Brix refractometer results log and data thread.. post your Brix levels here.

2 top leafs sap from stems of leaf.

Damn!!! very nice! 20 from the sap! amazing!

 

[high 420kwats]

Re: High Brix refractometer results log and data thread.. post your Brix levels here.

same as above just 1 week later.

 

[high 420kwats]

Re: High Brix refractometer results log and data thread.. post your Brix levels here.

same as last week.

 

[KidGrow420]

Nice reading on the holy grail OG ! Staying in and around the 20% ^ brix is more then excellent.

 

[StoneyMemoirs]

Nice reading on the holy grail OG ! Staying in and around the 20% ^ brix is more then excellent.

Holy hell us that real!? I haven't gotten more than 15, taking big fan leaves. Seems like most of the juice comes out of the stem...

 

[Conradino23]

I got 22 once my top, but I doubted myself. Didn't feel it in high which led me to believe there's a cap for the touch it gives the bud in the end. Anything over 20 is over the top though which is an excellence for an orange in Italy

 

[Icemud]

I haven't checked my brix in a while and so tonight decided to pull out the refractometer to see where the plants were at. Had some issues with deficiencies a few weeks back and now the plants are pulling really healthy with really good leaf posture so I was curious how they were doing.

I took the readings as usual. Take a nice mature leaf, roll it into a ball and pulverize it with some pliers. Then once its a leafy mush I squeeze a few drops onto the lens and take the reading.


How long in veg/bloom?
I haven't been tracking but about 2 months of veg, still in veg.

What time of day was sample taken? (morning, mid day, evening)
Sample was taken about 5 hours after the lights turned on.

What area of the plant was sampled? (top, middle, new growth?)(leaf, bud)
4th node down from top, on a fully mature leaf.

What growing method or medium?
2+ year old recycled supersoil, most of my dead or trimmed green leaves are recycled back into the soil. I also occasionally will add coffee grounds.

The Base Soil Mix:

ProMix HP
Worm Castings
Volcanic Pumice
Alaskan Forest Humus

The Amendments:
Azomite (trace minerals and micronutrients)
Calcium Carbonate Powder 97%
Soft Rock Phosphate (Collidal Clay with high phosphorus and CEC value)
Gypsum (Calcium Sulfate)
Crab Shell Meal 2-3-0 23% calcium(also a P source and source of chitin a hormone/growth regulator)
Fish Bone meal. (3-18-0) 24% Calcium
Lava Sand (adds trace minerals and supposedly adds paramagnetic value to the soil)
Kelp Meal (also has growth hormones and PGR's, plus trace minerals)
Alfalfa Meal. (2-0-3) (contains Trichontinol which aids in plant growth and health)
Powdered Humic Acid (Adds Carbons to the soil as well as trace minerals and aids in chelation of minerals)
Humboldt Myco's Maximum (Beneficial Bacteria and Mycorrizae Fungus)
Epsom Salts (Magnesium Sulfate)
Greensand (0-0-3) (Trace Minerals)



What nutrients are being used? and whats feeding schedule?
Compost teas, Earthjuice teas, hydrolyzed fish, occasional botanicare pro series


Are foliar sprays being used, what kind and feeding schedule?
compost teas or a mix of hydrolyzed fish, b vitamins, fulvic acid, cal mag with calcium nitrate, yucca extract

What Lighting is being used?
2x budmaster white cob4's, 1x budmaster god4, 1x budmaster 730nm far red emerson led
18/6 veg schedule, canopy receiving between 500-700umol/m2/s-1 of PAR.

CO2?? yes, no, and PPM if you have readouts..
2 milk jugs supplying a small trickle of c02, with yeast, water and sugar.



Black cherry soda: 24-25 brix

ogiesel: 16 1/2 to 17 brix

harlequin: hard to tell but looks about 14 brix

tangie 3: 14 brix

black diamond og: 18.5 brix

tangie 5: looks about 17-18 brix

Here is the garden: