Overdose or Hungry?

PacificNorthWest

PacificNorthWest

Well-Known Member
I hope this post doesn't come off as too amateur, at that risk I'd like to hear from the crowd on this one.

I ran into something similar last grow but didn't pay it much attention. I'm getting to about the halfway mark of flowering. Peyote Gorilla fed full line of REMO nutrients in promix (Last time was White Widow though). 4x4 tent pumping 630 watts CMH. Lots of ventilation. Thermostat controlled at 76 +- 2 lights on, approx 66 lights off. The last feed was 70% full strength nutes pH'd to 6.2 every time.

I really can't tell if this one girl is thirsty for more, or if this is an overdose situation. All the other girls are looking great.

Can you guys point me in the right direction? Maybe some factors or things I am missing? Should I pull back feed? Or increase?

I feel like a total newb asking this, but I don't really relate as a newb...I won't be surprised if I get slammed with the: "Feed her water and see her reaction?" replies.

But any other input or knowledge is appreciated. I feel like I suck at leaf diagnosis.
 

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It seems to me to be a potassium deficiency, which would be expected by feeding at 70% of the recommended amount at this point in the grow when the plants are needing more P and K than ever before. Ph sounds good, but the overall color does seem to be a little light. I suggest full feed a couple of times and see what happens.
 
Emilya... Right to my rescue!

Was just reading up on a few of your old amazing posts when I saw that ALERT light up.

The reason I was thinking overdose was because I always feed every time. Reading now that water, feed, water, feed might be better for promix.

I will take your advice. Potassium... hmmfff.

Thank you.
:Namaste:
 
it sounds like you are trying to mix hydro and soil methods. Feed/water/feed/water takes perfect advantage of soil's ability to hold extra nutrient temporarily, so that a water only pass not only fully feeds the plants, but it also clean out the soil and clears the roots for the next big hit of nutrients. Feed/feed/feed even at 70% eventually clogs things up and lockouts start to happen, and that is likely a cause of what is going on here. You keep feeding, and N is building up because it isn't being used very fast right now, and that is helping to lock out K, according to Mulder's Chart. Also feeding every time, the salts are steadily building up in the soil as the plant uses the nutes, and this salt buildup could also be blocking the roots ability to uptake the needed K. The symptoms still make sense, but here is what I would do in light of this new info:
First, I would flush the soil with 3x the container size in fresh un pH adjusted tap water to clear any salt buildup and/or leftover nutes, and then I would feed at the end of that soil cleaning with whatever you can get in there of full strength feed. Then on your next watering, go with water only, and start alternating water/feed/water/feed. I am betting that this lockout goes away, or at least doesn't get any worse.
 
Do what these guys say , feed water feed water , better results ,
also up the ph in soil to 6.4 to 6.5 grab more cal , they use more cal than a cucumber plant uses in flower , :cheesygrinsmiley:


Calcium helps your marijuana plant have healthy and strong cell walls, stems, branches, and stalks. It also helps out with root hair growth and root system development.

Without enough calcium, your plant won’t be able to absorb potassium properly, either. Calcium also helps your plants handle stress factors, such as very warm temperatures.
 
PacificNorthWest said:
Do you have these replies just ready written for people like me?

EDIT: I do fear flushing with 3x tap water just in case this is a really slight case. We'll see.
Click to expand...
lol, no, I just enjoy typing :) there is nothing to fear about the 3x flush. Rumors as to its harm are unfounded... I used to flush 5 separate times during a fox farm grow, as recommended by their feeding chart.

PacificNorthWest said:
But the manufacturer said dose everytime! DOH! :lot-o-toke:
Click to expand...
Which nutes are we talking about? Some of them, like MegaCrop ARE recommended to be given every time. As more details come to light, I might be changing my advice to you once again.
PacificNorthWest said:
Hey while we're on the topic... Is it useful at all to measure pH of run-off? Does that tell you anything?
Click to expand...
Runoff pH and PPM in soil is meaningless. It is like trying to measure coffee out of a percolator. The runoff contains micro particles of the organics in the soil along with nutes and salts and everything else that goes into making up the soil, and that sludge is in your runoff. The more runoff there is, the weaker your coffee... making the reading you get of either PPM or pH, totally arbitrary and meaningless.
 
I just looked up your Remo nutes and can see that they do recommend feed feed water or even feed feed feed water. They misuse the term flush in their instructions and do recommend that you starve your plants during the last 7-14 days... to each his own on that one. But, they never talk about doing a 3x flush of the medium, but they also recommend running this system in coco, not soil. So, I need to ask which promix you are in... are we talking about soil or coco?

I apologize for the confusion here, but I didn't do my homework on this before I started responding, and should have looked up your nute line and started asking more questions right from the beginning and gotten a better idea of which promix you are in. I think we are starting to see what is going on though, as the finer details come in.

I go back to my original diagnosis of a potassium deficiency and that I believe it is due to your 70% feed. This is a carefully measured and regulated grow system, and it is very important to religiously follow their every instruction. Full strength, FFFW or FFW is what they recommend. The only question I see at this point is which promix you are in so we can determine where your best incoming pH should be, and with the high price of those nutes, if you follow the directions, they really ought to do the job.
 
Emilya...no apologies are necessary. I feel like the one who should apologize as I kinda feel like the typical shitty grower who posts blurple pics with no information.

I'm running Promix HP with mycorrhizae. It is the only brand of promix available to me. Are there better ones I should be looking for? As far as I know I treat it like soil right? Even though it's actually "soil-less"? I started a few years ago with a 75% promix HP / 25% perlite mixture for better aeration...however, in the last few months, I dropped the perlite for convenience reasons (why add anything more to a "professional" mix was my thought on that).

The 3rd FAQ on the Remo website says: "...we recommend feeding every time you water, but this comes down to grower’s preference". It then says, shortly after, it's fine to skip a feed every 2 or 3, but it sounds to me, that their first recommendation is to feed every time.

I get that this doesn't specify soil/soilless/hydro though.

The only reason I dropped feed to 70% is that I mixed 10 gallons and then decided I needed 12. So I just added 2 gallons of water to the feed reservoir. Resulting in more like 80% strength I guess. Also, in the back of my head, I was a bit concerned with build-up as I have been feeding everytime (see above). And the last grow I wasn't sure if this was overdose or build-up either. Still a great harvest though.

I will definitely switch to feed/water/feed/water after reading your guys' thoughts on the matter. I'm actually looking forward to the cost savings when only using half the juice.

Again, thanks for the investigative questioning. You guys do good work here!
 
There is not necessarily a "better" soil, just mixes that require different handling than what you have. Yours will work just fine with your chosen nutes. The HP is soilless, mostly sphagnum moss. As such, you should not be in the soil pH range, and you will probably see a bit better nutrient pickup with the pH of your nutrient mix down near 5.8-6.1... the nutrients are flexible and will work at that range too. Remember when you are considering using the soil's usual method of FWFW, that you are not in soil, and your faux soil mix does not have the same ability that soil has to hold over nutrients for the next pass, nor is your nutrient line designed for doing things that way. I think if you re-read the feeding suggestions, they say that you could feed every time, but if your personal preference is not to, then do the FFW or FFFW. Follow their instructions before anyone else's suggestions... and you should be ok. If this were a Fox Farm Nutrients or a soil grow, you would do several things a little bit differently, but I am convinced now that if you get on the proper feeding amounts and timing and adjust your pH down just a tad, you will hit the sweet spot.
 
yes the sweet spot for soilless medium will be 5.6 to 5.9 the peat will hold the last feed of nutes you put in and the next time you water it releases again , its pretty cool , :cheesygrinsmiley:, ive made a copycat mix ,fffw will be an over kill ffw is better i think
You MIGHT have plenty of nutes in your medium so i wouldn't start adding more as you have left loads on the table without being ate, by being well out of the ph range its just sitting there doing nothing ;) drop your water ph to 5.7 so she can get some CAL into her , then the cal will help the plant take up the (K) that its lacking in also ( as said above by fellow members ) ,
i think its a slight hidden hunger not a def ,
 
This is great advice of a technique I have used in the past, but often forget that it's a good tool in the toolbox.

The problem here is only 1/5 plants is exhibiting symptoms.
 

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