Plants wilting a day after watering: root rot?

[bruno12345]

Greetings from Brazil!

Second grow going on.

3 Plants, that are about 45 days old.

Temperature lights on 24-30C and humidity 45 to 65%

Lights HPS 400w dimmable and white 6500k 100W led.

3x3 tent.

Substrate - Sphagnum peat, vermiculite, carbonized rice hull and 25% earthworm castings.

Watering tap water, 1 liter to 1,5 liters every 3-4 days, when pots are light by weight. (60ppm, ph 7,2, alkalinity near zero.) i Dont regulate ph as i use worm casting tea, my first grow i didnt too, and plants where fine till the end. But i dont fertilized cause plants even after heavy waterings, two of them are still heavy dark green, and one is needing a feed. I dont know how they burned, because i only used worm castings in the soild amendment and water, and they burned.

Mistakes made until now: A litte overfert, tips seems burned.
When i transplanted, 21 days old from starter cups to 1 gallon fabric pots, i watered the starter cup, but the new pot was transplanted dry. I dont have to tell you that this shocked the hell of the plants for a week. Then i watered it, and it seems soil is a bit hydrophobic, because the little water i pour, it immediately runs off the pot. And i left the fabric pots touching the plastic tray, wich caused roots to grow a little in the bottom of the pots.

I elevated the pots, so that the bottom has air passing through, but i did 3 or 4 waterings without this technique.

The thing is, now plants are with a really slow growth, you can see by the photos, from what i see in the internet they should be big by now.

And the curious thing, last watering they perched up, and rised like a happy plant should be, and then at the end of the light cycle they wilted, and still wilted by now 2 days after. Soil is wet, top inches still a little wet, and weight shows me there is water.

Could it be that my roots have rotten? Would it be advised to take one of them out of the fabric pots to see if there is rot?
Leaves arent yellowing, no spots on leaves, just slow growth, and wilting.

And the apparently hidrophobic soil, should i submerge the entire bucket in a water + drops of detergent to try to keep moisture more uniform in the medium? Maybe the dry transplant created air gaps, i dont know...

Any help is kindly appreciated, i read a lot but cant seem to understand what is going on.

 

[Emilya Green]

Hi @bruno12345 and welcome to the forum.
Yours is a curious grow and if I understand correctly, you are in a soilless mix. There is nothing in here for the plants once they get into flower... so you are going to need to feed them something. I don't think it is root rot since you are drying them out between waterings... but I think they may be wondering where they are going to get calcium, phosphorus and potassium from, not to mention a few others.

 

[Purplehazer]

Are they really 45 days old...whoaw they are a bit small for their age...after 25 days in these pots they should be a lot bigger with an HPS...are the roots filling the pots or are they still like you transplanted them? they look like they're Pot bound instead of stretching more because they got bigger pots

 

[bruno12345]

Hi @bruno12345 and welcome to the forum.
Yours is a curious grow and if I understand correctly, you are in a soilless mix. There is nothing in here for the plants once they get into flower... so you are going to need to feed them something. I don't think it is root rot since you are drying them out between waterings... but I think they may be wondering where they are going to get calcium, phosphorus and potassium from, not to mention a few others.

thanks emilya, your topic from how to water saved my first grow.

i didnt fertilized them in the last 4 waterings because they were with burned tips, and dark green.

Think that ill try to get a bucket and submerge the whole pot in fertilized water and a little detergent drops.

@Purplehazer they are small and that hurts my heart kkkkkkk. i didnt took them out of the pot to see the roots, i tought maybe this would mess things more.. Do you think it is safe to take a look at the roots and put back in the pot?

 

[Emilya Green]

what fertilizer are you using? veg or bloom mix?

 

[bruno12345]

At the moment not using, but will be a Worm Casting tea, composed basically of 800g of humus with 4 liters of water. Stirred twice a day for 3 days.
No need for aeration. Embrapa (brazilian agropecuary research institute) formula.

Then diluted with water until desired PPM

what fertilizer are you using? veg or bloom mix?

now upper part of the plant raised (new growth and 2 pair of leaves), and bottom part is wilted :|

 

[Nunyabiz]

Most likely lack of water

 

[013]

Your VPD is whacked - 30 C is too warm for indoors plants, and your rh is low. Can you get temp down to 28? but keep the rh up towards 65? Think you need a humidifier but a quick bush fix is large pan of water in the tent with a fan moving air across the surface. They have only been in that new soil for 21 days there is zero chance they are rootbound. If soil is hydrophobic maybe switch to bottom watering and soak them 5 minutes in a deep pan or bathtub then pour a gallon or two down the top.

 

[bluter]

Your VPD is whacked - 30 C is too warm for indoors plants, and your rh is low. Can you get temp down to 28? but keep the rh up towards 65? Think you need a humidifier

op is in brazil. that's pretty much indoor conditions. a humidifier is just gonna drive everything up and promote other issues.

 

[013]

Ah- totally my bad....

 

[Emilya Green]

At the moment not using, but will be a Worm Casting tea, composed basically of 800g of humus with 4 liters of water. Stirred twice a day for 3 days.
No need for aeration. Embrapa (brazilian agropecuary research institute) formula.

Then diluted with water until desired PPM


now upper part of the plant raised (new growth and 2 pair of leaves), and bottom part is wilted :|

Sorry Bruno, but that is not fertilizer. Your plants are starving.

 

[bruno12345]

Sorry Bruno, but that is not fertilizer. Your plants are starving.

Well, my first grow was almost done by this fertilizer, 150g from 3 plants, 250w hps + 100w white chinese led. Plants developed very nicely, healthy and with good yield and potency.

My tea gets a 1100ppm after 3 days.

 

[bruno12345]

Your VPD is whacked - 30 C is too warm for indoors plants, and your rh is low. Can you get temp down to 28? but keep the rh up towards 65? Think you need a humidifier but a quick bush fix is large pan of water in the tent with a fan moving air across the surface. They have only been in that new soil for 21 days there is zero chance they are rootbound. If soil is hydrophobic maybe switch to bottom watering and soak them 5 minutes in a deep pan or bathtub then pour a gallon or two down the top.

Thanks for the tip, will be watering this way partner. Hope this will get them up and happy

 

[Emilya Green]

Well, my first grow was almost done by this fertilizer, 150g from 3 plants, 250w hps + 100w white chinese led. Plants developed very nicely, healthy and with good yield and potency.

My tea gets a 1100ppm after 3 days.

Where is the calcium? Its very low in EWC. How about the potassium? Or the phosphorus? Sure, there is plenty of Nitrogen, but do earthworms create Iron? nope. How about boron, manganese, magnesium, and the other elements needed by these plants? Its not in your soilless mix. Its not in the EWC in the amounts needed by the plant, no matter how thick you make the brew. If it were that easy to make nutrients, no one would buy the expensive brand name nutrient lines. You must have done something differently in the past to make this work... maybe using actual soil instead of that mix you are in now.

The purpose of a tea is to create microbes... not to feed the plant. In that respect, as an untargeted tea, your EWC and humus will create lots of microbes. Brewing for 3 days however, if you are not feeding that brew bucket a good amount of molasses each day, the microbes will quickly die off from a lack of food. There are not hardly any nutrients other than too much nitrogen in that tea however... and if you were in a good mineralized soil where those microbes could go to work processing elements into a usable form for the plants, you would be set. Being in that soilless concoction that you are calling soil however, with no large amounts of minerals cooked into it, the microbes have nothing to do and nothing to feed your plants.

 

[Enjoil]

Greetings from Brazil!

Second grow going on.

3 Plants, that are about 45 days old.

Temperature lights on 24-30C and humidity 45 to 65%

Lights HPS 400w dimmable and white 6500k 100W led.

3x3 tent.

Substrate - Sphagnum peat, vermiculite, carbonized rice hull and 25% earthworm castings.

Watering tap water, 1 liter to 1,5 liters every 3-4 days, when pots are light by weight. (60ppm, ph 7,2, alkalinity near zero.) i Dont regulate ph as i use worm casting tea, my first grow i didnt too, and plants where fine till the end. But i dont fertilized cause plants even after heavy waterings, two of them are still heavy dark green, and one is needing a feed. I dont know how they burned, because i only used worm castings in the soild amendment and water, and they burned.

Mistakes made until now: A litte overfert, tips seems burned.
When i transplanted, 21 days old from starter cups to 1 gallon fabric pots, i watered the starter cup, but the new pot was transplanted dry. I dont have to tell you that this shocked the hell of the plants for a week. Then i watered it, and it seems soil is a bit hydrophobic, because the little water i pour, it immediately runs off the pot. And i left the fabric pots touching the plastic tray, wich caused roots to grow a little in the bottom of the pots.

I elevated the pots, so that the bottom has air passing through, but i did 3 or 4 waterings without this technique.

The thing is, now plants are with a really slow growth, you can see by the photos, from what i see in the internet they should be big by now.

And the curious thing, last watering they perched up, and rised like a happy plant should be, and then at the end of the light cycle they wilted, and still wilted by now 2 days after. Soil is wet, top inches still a little wet, and weight shows me there is water.

Could it be that my roots have rotten? Would it be advised to take one of them out of the fabric pots to see if there is rot?
Leaves arent yellowing, no spots on leaves, just slow growth, and wilting.

And the apparently hidrophobic soil, should i submerge the entire bucket in a water + drops of detergent to try to keep moisture more uniform in the medium? Maybe the dry transplant created air gaps, i dont know...

Any help is kindly appreciated, i read a lot but cant seem to understand what is going on.

Welcome bro bro! Emilyas got you. You could not have better help!

I was just curious, how is your yard? Can you grow outside? I would think in Brazil you could grow some plants very easily outdoors. I wanna come visit! I will bring beans! Lol. Jk

 

[bruno12345]

Where is the calcium? Its very low in EWC. How about the potassium? Or the phosphorus? Sure, there is plenty of Nitrogen, but do earthworms create Iron? nope. How about boron, manganese, magnesium, and the other elements needed by these plants? Its not in your soilless mix. Its not in the EWC in the amounts needed by the plant, no matter how thick you make the brew. If it were that easy to make nutrients, no one would buy the expensive brand name nutrient lines. You must have done something differently in the past to make this work... maybe using actual soil instead of that mix you are in now.

The purpose of a tea is to create microbes... not to feed the plant. In that respect, as an untargeted tea, your EWC and humus will create lots of microbes. Brewing for 3 days however, if you are not feeding that brew bucket a good amount of molasses each day, the microbes will quickly die off from a lack of food. There are not hardly any nutrients other than too much nitrogen in that tea however... and if you were in a good mineralized soil where those microbes could go to work processing elements into a usable form for the plants, you would be set. Being in that soilless concoction that you are calling soil however, with no large amounts of minerals cooked into it, the microbes have nothing to do and nothing to feed your plants.

Very nice information about Iron, but i humbly disagree about phosphorus, potassium, calcium and magnesium.
Heres a quote from embrapa about the worm cast tea composition. Obviously the are differences between different earthworm castings, it is in Portuguese, but you can easily translate.
"125 mg L de nitrogênio, 23 mg L de fósforo, 534 mg L de potássio, 28 mg L de cálcio, 630 mg L de magnésio, 33 mg L-1 de sódio, pH de 7,02 e condutividade elétrica de 2,31 mS cm-1."

Electrical condutivity of 2.31mS, around 1150PPM. Nice ammounts of NPK.

About calcium, i forgot to say that my substrate mixture has dolomitic Lime, wich i think helps boosting Ca and Mg too.

Liquid humus is also rich in a molecule very similar to Auxin, giberelins, humic and fulvic acids.
There is research ongoing to hidroponic lettuce using this tea,
I know its hard to believe, but i grew 3 nice plants, very healthy in coloration, roots, yield and potency, using only that simple fertilizer, without aeration or molasses. It is also said to be a very potent foliar fertilizer, helping against diseases.

But i will definitely buy me a complete fertilizer, so i can mix with my tea when watering. Thinking primarily in Micronutrients.

Welcome bro bro! Emilyas got you. You could not have better help!

I was just curious, how is your yard? Can you grow outside? I would think in Brazil you could grow some plants very easily outdoors. I wanna come visit! I will bring beans! Lol. Jk

I know, im kinda of a emilyas fan hahahaha

Well i wish i could my brother, here in Brazil people think MJ is equal crack or heroin... Come visit me man, we eat Beans almost everyday, rice and beans is the most consumed things in Brazil as regarding to everyday food.

But you know, the same Embrapa i mentioned above, made a research and almost the entire territory of Brasil is cannabis friendly, and we could be a giant producer in the future. (if our monkey minded conservatory politicians allow).

 

[Enjoil]

thanks emilya, your topic from how to water saved my first grow.

i didnt fertilized them in the last 4 waterings because they were with burned tips, and dark green.

Think that ill try to get a bucket and submerge the whole pot in fertilized water and a little detergent drops.

@Purplehazer they are small and that hurts my heart kkkkkkk. i didnt took them out of the pot to see the roots, i tought maybe this would mess things more.. Do you think it is safe to take a look at the roots and put back in the pot?

Very nice information about Iron, but i humbly disagree about phosphorus, potassium, calcium and magnesium.
Heres a quote from embrapa about the worm cast tea composition. Obviously the are differences between different earthworm castings, it is in Portuguese, but you can easily translate.
"125 mg L de nitrogênio, 23 mg L de fósforo, 534 mg L de potássio, 28 mg L de cálcio, 630 mg L de magnésio, 33 mg L-1 de sódio, pH de 7,02 e condutividade elétrica de 2,31 mS cm-1."

Electrical condutivity of 2.31mS, around 1150PPM. Nice ammounts of NPK.

About calcium, i forgot to say that my substrate mixture has dolomitic Lime, wich i think helps boosting Ca and Mg too.

Liquid humus is also rich in a molecule very similar to Auxin, giberelins, humic and fulvic acids.
There is research ongoing to hidroponic lettuce using this tea,
I know its hard to believe, but i grew 3 nice plants, very healthy in coloration, roots, yield and potency, using only that simple fertilizer, without aeration or molasses. It is also said to be a very potent foliar fertilizer, helping against diseases.

But i will definitely buy me a complete fertilizer, so i can mix with my tea when watering. Thinking primarily in Micronutrients.


I know, im kinda of a emilyas fan hahahaha

Well i wish i could my brother, here in Brazil people think MJ is equal crack or heroin... Come visit me man, we eat Beans almost everyday, rice and beans is the most consumed things in Brazil as regarding to everyday food.

But you know, the same Embrapa i mentioned above, made a research and almost the entire territory of Brasil is cannabis friendly, and we could be a giant producer in the future. (if our monkey minded conservatory politicians allow).

Ha ha, I meant seeds. I call seeds beans. I’m studying up on breeding plants, it’s super complex....

 

[bruno12345]

Ha ha, I meant seeds. I call seeds beans. I’m studying up on breeding plants, it’s super complex....

Hahaha my bad. These kind of beans are worth gold here in BR... Good genetics is hard to find, and when you do, you have to pay the price for it... Many people getting rich only by selling beans. I can only imagine, but im sure complex and fun, as with everything related to these plants.

Come pay us a visit man, Brazil is a marvelous place to enjoy vacations. Beautiful women, welcoming people, sun, beaches, food is cheap and plenty. What can i say, i really enjoy here hahahaha. You would be sure very welcome in my home (hope i can get my babies to yield, so we can smoke decent MJ).

 

[Emilya Green]

Very nice information about Iron, but i humbly disagree about phosphorus, potassium, calcium and magnesium.
Heres a quote from embrapa about the worm cast tea composition. Obviously the are differences between different earthworm castings, it is in Portuguese, but you can easily translate.
"125 mg L de nitrogênio, 23 mg L de fósforo, 534 mg L de potássio, 28 mg L de cálcio, 630 mg L de magnésio, 33 mg L-1 de sódio, pH de 7,02 e condutividade elétrica de 2,31 mS cm-1."

Electrical condutivity of 2.31mS, around 1150PPM. Nice ammounts of NPK.

About calcium, i forgot to say that my substrate mixture has dolomitic Lime, wich i think helps boosting Ca and Mg too.

Liquid humus is also rich in a molecule very similar to Auxin, giberelins, humic and fulvic acids.
There is research ongoing to hidroponic lettuce using this tea,
I know its hard to believe, but i grew 3 nice plants, very healthy in coloration, roots, yield and potency, using only that simple fertilizer, without aeration or molasses. It is also said to be a very potent foliar fertilizer, helping against diseases.

But i will definitely buy me a complete fertilizer, so i can mix with my tea when watering. Thinking primarily in Micronutrients.


I know, im kinda of a emilyas fan hahahaha

Well i wish i could my brother, here in Brazil people think MJ is equal crack or heroin... Come visit me man, we eat Beans almost everyday, rice and beans is the most consumed things in Brazil as regarding to everyday food.

But you know, the same Embrapa i mentioned above, made a research and almost the entire territory of Brasil is cannabis friendly, and we could be a giant producer in the future. (if our monkey minded conservatory politicians allow).

proof is in the pudding as they say, so those must indeed be some very well fed earthworms. It would be very interesting to follow a grow using this method to see what, if any, deficiencies appear while in bloom... have you thought about sticking around and doing a grow journal so we can all learn more about this? I never would have thought it possible, but I learn new things all the time, and if you say it works, then I believe you. I of course would like to know more about these EWC and this tea too, which seems to be more than a microbe producing tea... this stuff instead is a real nutrient!

But back to the drooping... they still doing it? They do appear to be clawing a bit like they are getting too much N... and of course that is why we call it N toxicity when it is being overdosed... it locks out everything else.

 

[bruno12345]

proof is in the pudding as they say, so those must indeed be some very well fed earthworms. It would be very interesting to follow a grow using this method to see what, if any, deficiencies appear while in bloom... have you thought about sticking around and doing a grow journal so we can all learn more about this? I never would have thought it possible, but I learn new things all the time, and if you say it works, then I believe you. I of course would like to know more about these EWC and this tea too, which seems to be more than a microbe producing tea... this stuff instead is a real nutrient!

But back to the drooping... they still doing it? They do appear to be clawing a bit like they are getting too much N... and of course that is why we call it N toxicity when it is being overdosed... it locks out everything else.

Yes it is very easy to produce and very nutritive. I believe humus is a very complete fertilizer, and has biostimulants. Also very cheap round here. 1 dollar = 5kgs. wich makes me 25 liters of 1100ppm solution, around 35 liters of diluted (700ppm) fertilizer with 1 dollar. No aeration, no molasses. Hard to believe hahahahhaah

Well, they perked up a little, but still drooping, these pictures are from today (sorry hps on, hard to see the colors), but still hasnt watered, waiting for them to completely dry to soak them in my humus tea.
Yes one of them is very dark, with signs of N overfert. The three of them, after transplant, presented burned tips, so i basically gave them only water. One of them is still very dark green, so ill go very lightly on this one, but the other will be surely fertilized.

About the grow journal, will gently think about it, you were so receptive, i appreciate all the help received.