Removing large fan leaves during flowering: a good idea or not?

[EARTHWALKER]

I spent about 2 hours today removing almost ALL of my fan leaves as every single bud site was covered. 3 hours later and the plant is smiling at me.

 

[bananakush]

All the people I take advice from around here say different, they take all but the top 2 sets of fan leaves. Have heard from many different people to do this to increase bud size and yield. I haven't gotten it just right yet, but I'm trying.

The idea is that those huge lower fan leaves are just sucking more nutrients from the plant and not photosynthesizing hardly anything since they are inches below the upper canopy and not receiving much light. So they are essentially doing nothing yet the plant is being forced to keep feeding these huge leaves to keep them healthy instead of diverting that extra energy to the buds.

I know the theory that it takes the plants longer to recover from the stress of taking her leaves, and in the end hurts the yield, but I disagree. While I do think that it stresses the plant for a day or two, when they come back they come back with an increased vigor. Like pissed off bees, and they keep it up.

If your a soil grower I think it benefits to trim at least some inner fan leaves so that light can reach the soil. This helps to dry it out faster and keep a healthier environment IMO. You can then feed more often.

i do it like that but i trim al the fan leaves of before flowering it slows the branch down for a few days but then the growing begins .... but i start on the top of the plant and make my way down so that the lower branches catch up to the top .... leaves are constantly growing ... we are growing indoor. what are you all buying nutrients and lights .... and feeding plants with every watering for?.... YUST DO NOT TRIM OF ALL THE LEAVES trim of yust the ones that are in the way of the plants branches a branch that does not become light does not grow and buds grow on branches not on leaves
but it's important to trim the leaves in veg and then in flow. when the buds are big enough so that the smaller ones can catch more light

 

[STOP]

just look at my grow and tell me defol dose not work. OK! .if you dont believe in defol thats cool too. but i bet you looking at my garden and thinking why is mine not like that. happydays.

 

[Dutty Panty]

Agree with stop. I strip mine bare get hp per plant minimum

 

[STOP]

every thing that is said about fan leaves feeding the plant and photosynthesis. is true don't get me wrong. BUT, and its a big BUT.we are hobby gardeners, these survival Technics that the plant has don't apply to me. photosynthesis not happening they are under the canopy and getting no light. thats that. feeding, i am feeding the plant from day one. i am in charge of the nutes. this plant is not out side in the earth , storing all the nutes to use later in case they get lost .there will always be nutes for them ,unless i don't feed them..so what the plant dose to survive in the big bad world . is useless in my snug tent with a lovely environment and plenty of nutes. so in a hobby grow like mine .they just get in the way , and they are not doing shit. i have done this test before.
defoling in the flowering stage, i only do in the last 3 weeks. 1 .any thing that is not getting any light, goes.2. anything that is taking light away from small buds that look like they have potential , goes. in the end . i end up with nice hard buds from bottom to top. in stead of just buds on top and loads of light green pop corn. 15 years ago ,i left half my tent alone. what hapend was as follows, the plant gave me nice top buds and loads of pop corn for making butter. BUT! the other half of my tent witch i defoliated ,the plant gave me 30% more bud and 95% less pop corn. witch suits me. so since that experiment i have always incorporated a defol. so now i just get solid hard fat buds. and a little pop corn for butter and the pop corn is high grade.i used to hate pushing my plants that had only 3 weeks with my hands and seeing light green still in nappies,s . baby bud. and thinking, shit ,what are you going to do in the next 3 weeks. (nothing) those days are well gone . now its like, such a nice sight when you see light green small buds come to life in just 24 hours of being opened up.and giving you hard wee nuggets in the end.

 

[Greenbeard]

Hi guys!

I'm a first time cannabis grower and my experience is basically zero at this point. I am however doing some research into this topic of defoliation because the plants I have going (4 White Rhinos) are all extremely bushy.

Here, take a look

This one will become a mother so it will not be transplanted into a larger pot as my nursery/mother room can't accommodate too large ladies

They are all still quite small but they will probably keep being quite bushy and dense with these very large fan leaves throughout their life - so pruning, defoliation and different techniques of LST will probably be beneficial for the end result. So, I've started looking into this topic and from what I've read so far it seem like there's a very long and persistent argument between cannabis growers around the world about whether defoliation is good or bad.

I know from personal experience that tomato plants will benefit from some defoliation as they tend to get quite dense with leaves, obstructing light from hitting the fruit. I also always remove what we in Sweden call "thieves" which are new shoots that come out between the stem and branch and basically just steals energy that could go into the branch and subsequently its fruits.

Anyways, I did find these videos by someone calling himself "carpo719" and he seem to be making a very good case in favor of defoliation.

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[/video]

I definitely agree that internet is a very good tool for dispelling myths perpetuated for years by a handful of "expert" cannabis growers/authors. The only way to really know what works and doesn't is to actually try and see for yourself and then share the information to others using forums such as this one.

 

[MrWhat]

personally I do not advice to remove fan leaves during flowering.
Simply because during the flowering stage the plant energy is focused in bud-building process. Everytime you hurt her, she takes longer to heal herself and her energy has sent to repair the damage instead to the flowers.

BTW if you are in the veggie-time you can do everything you want to your plant (if is a photoperiod one), beeing careful.

Try, try and try again. That's the only way to know what is better for you and your plants, and create your own growing style!

Forums are really helpful, but your experience and knowledge is a luggage with no weight! So bigger is better!
experiment and express yourself

The true drug, for me, is growing.. I'm totally addicted with it!

 

[2clean]

only remove leaves that are blocking buds only . i do it in weeks 3-6

 

[Ziplock]

Its funny how we try to imitate nature as best we can and then second guess nature. I am no expert but I have always let the plant do what it is supposed to. Never worried and usually get a good harvest.

That's the best advice I've seen here. I'm into flowering on my 6th grow, this time I used a hands off approach (difficult for an ex-bonsai keeper). The difference is staggering! I'm gonna be swamped with bud, and the only diff. is that I didn't trim fan leaves, just bent them out of the way, when necessary. I'm convinced.

 

[dwopjr2]

I started my flowering cycle back on May 10th and I noticed that the leaves are turning yellow now on plants that are under LED. I went to my local center and I was told to add some more nitrogen into the feeding, plus the bloom feeding. Anyone experience this?

Thanks,

 

[Dave Groomer]

My Bubba OG and Granddaddy Purple plants are 40 days into flower. I'm seeing lots of nice buds on all the branches. One thing that is happening, is that the many large fan leaves coming off the plant frequently lay over top of buds, thus putting them in partial shade.

One of my local "experts" says that the large fan leaves should be removed to get the buds in full light, and the little leaves that are directly connected to the buds are the leaves that need full light because THEY are the ones that fuel bud growth.

It kind of makes sense, but this genius has been wrong about growing these plants before.

Any thoughts on this?

I remove almost all my fan leaves at about 25 days or so (I like to wait till after most of the stretching is done) Then I will do it again around day 40-45 if needed again. Look at my Train Wreck and my Cali Jack.

 

[JBUptown]

Just my opinion/experience ... not recommending any course of action/inaction!

Had 4 strain identical plants (M1 clones) in a tent (4 AK47, all other variables were the same).

1st control - stripping all light blocking fans leaves and lower leaves not getting much light during both Veg and Flower
2nd control - stripped only lower leaves not getting much light during both Veg and Flower
3rd control - stripped only light blocking leaves over buds only during Flower
4th control - stripped no leaves at all, only tucked and pushed light blocking fan leaves below budding sites during Veg and Flower

After 5 months total Veg and Flower, the 4th control plant was by and large the winner. More size, density, flavor ... better in almost any category that a rating might be considered desirable. Second place went to 3rd control plant, less yield but harder nugs. No discernible difference between control 1 and control 2. This one experiment led me to think that "leaving the leaves" on the plant was the best choice. Perhaps if the plant didn't want them she wouldn't have made them, or would have gotten rid of them herself. Tucking and bending the fan leaves is a regular and twice a week habit now!

This is now my preferred way of treating plants, but I'm not suggesting this as THE best method. Just a preference after the test.

 

[zagil]

from my experience is you remove the fan leaves your buds will be fluffy .. i have tried this before .... and now i remove only and only the bottom one so the nuts can be travels non stop to the top ......

now i have single plant in soil white widow extrm .. shes on week 5 .. feeding full line on AN with a 1750ppm+ CO2, 3 litters of nuts every morning and she is asking for more ..crazy plant and scary ...with 1750ppm of mixing 12 type of nut every day .. i can admit i have never ever saw some thing let her in my life ... when she was on week 3 flowring she was asking me for more than 1900PPM and waaw no burn sign at all

she is under "1100watt" of full 2100K 2700K 3000K LED grow light made by my self in a tent 3x3x6 feet i know it sounds crazy and my light is an ass kick ... if you ask for photos i say NO ... i never share my private stuff to the cyber world. sorry
good luck all

 

[Misterbeans]

It's

I am no expert but I can tell you that my trial and error after a number of rounds is that removing the large fan leaves does stimulate larger bud growth. I honestly don't know that it matters too much but my set up is DWC. My first few grows, I didn't trim the plants at all. They had tons and tons of leaves and in the end all the buds were numerous, popcorn sized and very light. After a number of tries changing everything, from lighting, nutes, bucket design, the biggest and most noticeable change was to really shape the plant in veg by removing the lower leaves and in week 5 of flowering start removing any fan leaves that block the light from the flower leaves. letting the light get into the plants inner sections was the change. The change was literally in 24 hours. It was so simple and straight forward that I was and still am shocked that it is not part of 99% of how to's with this plant. I noticed that if you look at the plant from the upside down you can see the leaves that block out the light. Before I started this the plants all stalled in week 5-6 and the leaves would start to look stressed and yellow far too early. I've also noticed that you can not go by an 8 week flower time. You literally have to just go with the flow, and check the plants daily with a small microscope. When it's time, the plant will let you know.
These results may be the strain and or the hydroponics making the difference but I have to say I am a fan of loosing the fans.

Very funny you say that. I'll have to get pics tomorrow but... I had an issue that I could not fully determine pretty sure magnesium deficincy. Anyway I'm the kind of guy that reads everything and makes the best decision at the same time I say #@$% @% lol. So I figured the buds have allot of sugar leaves coming out of them so I tried to determine a ratio of bud leaves to make up for fan leaves. I did not care I would had chopped it and took my yield loss. Most the fan leaves had this issue and I took about 10 off at one time ready to chop and hand if necessary . I did take the ones covering bud sites. I read and watched the pros say the stress kills the plant slows growth ect. This was the weaker plant with smaller buds. As an experiment with the same strain I left the other plant untouched as it has no issues. The plant i cut the big, main fan leaves off of it's now almost double the size in buds and now but far the better of 2 plants. Like a race it was far behind but now with the fan leaves mostly gone it is way, way ahead of the race. I've seen the professionals say never cut fan leaves ect. Ect. Im hard headed and it paid off. This plant that was about to be chopped is turning into the beast lol. So from this experiment im seeing that the excess fan leaves are slowing the growth of the buds. The rest of the leaves are more perky also more dense. I won't chop the rest though because I think it may help the final phase but I don't know. The other plant is bushy like the one I trimmed the leaves on and looks ok but nothing like the trimmed one lol. Both strains are haze xtreme and looked the same except for the leaf problem deficiency or whatever. All i can see here also is nothing but benefits so far, major benefits. They are sleeping ill get pics tomorrow and the update at harvest I'm almost week 6 mostly sativa I expect to harvest at week 10 most likely. These are regular seeds not autoflower I would not touch an autoflower personally il just let it go. Trimming 10 of the biggest fan leaves off in the same day didn't hurt me a bit. I'll be sure to post the pics tomorrow. For me in the future I'll be taking leaves during flower week 3 is when I did it. I'll do a couple more trials different strains but I'll only probably take 2 leaves a day. You know what proof is everything I'll be right back going to take pics now. I tried doing the order from non trimmed to trimmed along with the buds. I also trimmed another leaf to show the reason I did this. I use the entire advanced nutrients line and happy frog soil. I use 1/4 the recommended dosage of nutrients. The pictures you really can't see the true deal in person is extremely noticeable. I took the net off after trained a few days ago I will put it back up to support weight later. Seeds popped may 14th I fimmed at node #5 and topped at node # 8 and looks like I can only upload 10 pics lol.

 

[Tony Urban]

A lot of folks like to defoliate through different phases of their grow.

This was counterintuitive to me so I have avoided this. Partially because of a plant silviculture class I took in college and partially due to common sense.

My plants are in soil and self prune the further we go into flower. They tell me when they are done. I tend to keep them as long as possible as they are the engine/energy storage.

 

[Misterbeans]

A lot of folks like to defoliate through different phases of their grow.

This was counterintuitive to me so I have avoided this. Partially because of a plant silviculture class I took in college and partially due to common sense.

My plants are in soil and self prune the further we go into flower. They tell me when they are done. I tend to keep them as long as possible as they are the engine/energy storage.

 

[Misterbeans]

My question to you is how come when you defoliate indoor due to light not hitting budsights they start to grow and mature? Buds that do not get light seem to not grow. If you defoliate from my research on you tube side by side trial's got get increased yield. It makes sense outsidoutdoor due to the light supply but indoor the leaves that don't get light droop. If there is no deficincy then the storage is useless and you have nutes to support the plant. The videos i seen the buds harvest at the same time defoliate or not. I think indoor the the risk of heavy foliage invites problems with no air flow also. With your education help me understand I am a trial and error guy I have found it's not better but easier to learn the hard way. I think the leaves are great for veg and it makes sense to me to take leaves that get no light because you have more leaves in the bud that get light to make up for the loss. I can't understand with more leaves why the buds getting no light don't grow. I think the plant tells me that at this point the bud leaves need light to grow. It seems that the fan leaves are great for veg and horrible for bud growth if not exposed to light. So if the fan leaves create so much energy in flower I would think the buds would grow great with no light exposure. If defoliation of fan leaves during flower is and issue why do deficiencies not develop? I have never been able to find an explanation so it seems the leaves in the buds are for bud growth and the fan leaves feed the plant for veg and are only food storage during flower. It makes sense that they help pump the plant in flower but I do not think you need as many due to the leaves in the bud. As long as you do not take a ratio of fan leaves larger than the leaves that exist in the buds. Im asking for the knowledge you learned from studies in school because mine are from research and experience. In the outdoor I see no need to defoliate because they get plenty of light in most cases or even indoor if they get good light everywhere. I know the lower part of the plant has weak development regardless so I chopped them and ran soil up the stalk to grow more roots but I'm speaking for the main branches that can produce good buds of the branch. And thank you

 

[Tony Urban]

I should clarify my personal reasoning, based on my situation.

I grow in living organic soil. I layered my soil with humus, perlite, sphagnum moss, and all those other soil amendments. I suspect my plant and the soil have a process that differs from dwc, hempy, and hydro. I think my plant takes and stores certain nutrients out of the soil in early veg and stores them in the fan leaves. My leaves fade and fall throughout flower quite aggressively. The plant takes what it needs from the soil and the fan leaves during flower. I let the leaves litter the topsoil. But this is just my high thoughts.

In dwc, hempy, and hydro all those nutrients are provided through the grow. I think the ability to defoliate is increased. You can accomplish a variety of responses with defoliation. But this is not my area of expertise.

 

[Tony Urban]

There are so many variables to yield. I can’t attribute one factor in any one result. Some plants like pruning. Some don’t.

There are entire threads and discussions on this subject on 420.

I chose this one method because it was chosen for me. My plant lost leaves on its own. Others use what works for them.

 

[Misterbeans]

I should clarify my personal reasoning, based on my situation.

I grow in living organic soil. I layered my soil with humus, perlite, sphagnum moss, and all those other soil amendments. I suspect my plant and the soil have a process that differs from dwc, hempy, and hydro. I think my plant takes and stores certain nutrients out of the soil in early veg and stores them in the fan leaves. My leaves fade and fall throughout flower quite aggressively. The plant takes what it needs from the soil and the fan leaves during flower. I let the leaves litter the topsoil. But this is just my high thoughts.

In dwc, hempy, and hydro all those nutrients are provided through the grow. I think the ability to defoliate is increased. You can accomplish a variety of responses with defoliation. But this is not my area of expertise.

I study nature because it teaches you so much. I can imagine Tesla looking at a thunderstorm and trying to figure out how energy was being created like the rotation of the earth with moisture lightning and extreme force, the engine. I think the engine, fan leaves is needed for veg for the plant to grow and also for the stretch phase or first 3 weeks roughly of flower switch to 12/12 . I study and watch this plant and I think if the fan leaves was to full throddle grow buds then the buds themselves would not need fan leaves. So i think in nature the roots spread and steal as many nutrients as possible to store for when the times get rough. For any living thing it stores food from plants to people for the long run and much more than needed in general. So my idea is that the plant stores way more nutrients in the leaves than are needed to grow because if they only took what they needed you could not get nutrient burn because the plant would reject it. This is why I think after the veg and stretch phase the nutrients in the fan leaves are only storage and as long as the fan leaf to bud leaf ratio is about equal and it is fed nutrients until the last 2 weeks of flower then during the last two weeks it will take in what's left to finish. So it makes me thinking fan leaves are to support veg and flowering stretch growth and bud leaves support bud growth with a back up of nutrient storage if needed in fan leaves. We still need photosynthesis to grow so i think leave as many fan leaves as possible that do not cover bud sights that get good light and for the final 2 weeks. But it's like removing the bottom branches early on the just take energy to create very little so why not chop them early on to promote growth to the upper level with higher bud development. Maybe I think too much but lol, just trying to explain the method to my madness. If fan leaves are the engine to bud growth then the buds covered by fan leaves should grow amazing with the leaves covering them not when you take them away, that's why iI and the flowers support thier own growth with the fan leaves and everything that happens up to week 3 of flower is to support them not grow them. In nature the fan leaves provide the nutrients and shade needed to keep all parts of the plant safe to reproduce, even if the top half gets burned by heat or ate by animals and broke the bottom can survive and still reproduce. But indoors you can manipulate all growth to the highest yielding areas because you can provide nutrients and protect the plant.