Topping, LST, Bending?

[tomatofarmer]

Welcome, Im looking for the experts for this one. Good thing this site is full of them. First Grow, 25 days in veg plants between 7" and 9" will post pics here quick. Im looking for advice and what to do. I've read alot about topping, LST, and Bending, but i have questions and want to know what would be best for my plant, and most beneficial to my yield. I was about to jump into LST but then i read you need to top first. Im not sure if im reading for that. I seen a lot of people that bend say topping is not the way to go and vis versa. Looking for advice and info

 

[SwedishCloset]

As I see it;

Got time? then top/fim´em
In A hurry? just LowST
//
seariously..

 

[WizHigh]

Im here to kill that none sense. Topping is the awesome way to go. And I have pictures to prove it. I love topping and will continue to top my plants. Topping will help your over all yield and also will get them to be bigger buds and more buds. I use LST just to get light to reach places that are to bushy. I use topping to get my plants even more bushier for bigger colas and more bud sites. As seen in these pictures. I topped my plants over 20x And this is the results. Topping will produce huge colas and I may be able to harvest each plant 2x doing so by harvesting 1st half and then letting the other half flower more and then harvest again. By using LST and Topping you can do alot and gain alot. I mean look at it, each top is like its own damn plant

This is another plant I LST & Topped.

And here is one I super cropped and topped. By time this one goes into flower you wont be able to see the main stock unless I LST it. Other then that just topping and more topping.

 

[exile19]

Well with LST or bending helps by giving light to the bud sites so they get more light, topping is also good for limited space you get 2 heads instead of 1 and it starts to bush out once that happens. FIMing(f@ck I miss) is the same as topping but you get multiple heads 3-4 instead of 2. How long do you plan on growing? what kinda lights do you have? so someone can see what would "benefit" your yield, negatives of topping or fimming is height the grow more vertically, and lsting is for confined spaces and strain type some handle better than other with recovery speed.

 

[WizHigh]

Hey Exile19, good point about F.I.M. you actually get more tops then just 2 when you top, well this all depends on how many times you top after each time you do it. I topped each bud site 7x on my biggest plant. I F.I.M. a couple of times but I always got 3 tops instead of 4 lol. But what im saying is if you LST the colas where you topped then there will be amounts of 4 tops. This is if you top that same cola 2x. So if you top it 3x then there will be 6 bud sites. It all depends if thats what you want to do. Or as mine, I just left the colas as is. Theres atleast 10 tops going on in there thats making it 1 whole BIG cola. I LST one of the colas which is on the other side of the first plant and it will now have 4 tops. I topped that 2x but I tryd F.I.M. and it turned into 3 tops. But point im making is, if he uses LST and topping/F.I.M. the right way then theres no limit to what can happen. Only good will come out of it. Its art!

 

[exile19]

youre right about the art part but I havent done it that many times after 1-2 tops or fim I usually stop but what youre saying is right on

 

[WizHigh]

Yea you should top continuously, it really does make a difference. Try it some time. I top then let the plant rest for 2 weeks then top every site again. Then LST if I need to. You dont have a journal going?

 

[exile19]

No I had to get lights get seeds upgrade everything soon I will put one up, after I get some more lights, but thanks dude will have to do that

 

[Muttt]

I topped all mine. I did it because I didn't have anything else to grow and I needed the clones. But, what I didn't realize was that every time I cut the top off, what was left double up on main stalks. So, I went from one main stem to eventaully having like 9. It makes for one hell of a nice bushy plant. Especially with my indicas. We will see how it yeilds in a month or two.

 

[tomatofarmer]

Here are mine they are 25 days old and are 7-9" when should i start topping? Also they are under 2 90watt led that are working great so far, i was a bit skeptical at first.

 

[WizHigh]

So I see those type of LED lights actually work out very nice. Are those from home improvement stores, like regular LED lights? I may have to do a side by side comparison on my next grow.

But any who, you can start topping now. And when they grow back after 1 or 2 nods top them again. I play around and some times let them get to 2 nods and then top or some times 1 nod. 2 nodes will give you 4 tops. 6 If you count the first time you topped. When the side branches start to grow from the main stem, let them get to there 4th nod before topping them the first time. Unless the side branches are stretching then I would top before the 4th nod.

Great looking plants also

 

[tomatofarmer]

The leds are from home depot they are: EcoSmart(90W) LED Flood Light Bulb there like 35$ a pop, and they keep my temp at about 82 degrees. I dont know what im going to do for flowering lights tho.

 

[WizHigh]

They have LED 2700-3000k lights also at home depot. So I guess use them. What are those on the kelvin scale? They seem like 5000k. They work great I see. Hows the growth rate with them? Doesnt seem like to much stretching either. How long have you been vegging?

 

[Fuzzy Duck]

Pruning

Pruning techniques are commonly used by Cannabis cultivators to limit the size of their plants and promote branching. Several techniques are available, and each has its advantages and drawbacks. The most common method is meristem pruning or stem tip removal. In this case the growing tip of the main stalk or a limb is removed at approximately the final length desired for the stalk or limb. Below the point of removal, the next pair of axial growing tips begins to elongate and form two new limbs. The growth energy of one stem is now divided into two, and the diffusion of growth energy results in a shorter plant which spreads horizontally.

Auxin produced in the tip meristem travels down the stem and inhibits branching. When the meristem is re moved, the auxin is no longer produced and branching may proceed uninhibited. Plants that are normally very tall and stringy can be kept short and bushy by meristem pruning. Removing meristems also removes the newly formed tissues near the meristem that react to changing environmental stimuli and induce flowering. Pruning during the early part of the growth cycle will have little effect on flowering, but plants that are pruned late in life, supposedly to promote branching and floral growth, will often flower late or fail to flower at all. This happens because the meristemic tissue responsible for sensing change has been removed and the plant does not measure that it is the time of the year to flower. Plants will usually mature fastest if they are allowed to grow and develop without interference from pruning. If late maturation of Cannabis is desired, then extensive pruning may work to delay flowering. This is particularly applicable if a staminate plant from an early maturing strain is needed to pollinate a late-maturing pistil late plant. The staminate plant is kept immature until the pistillate plant is mature and ready to be pollinated. When the pistillate plant is receptive, the staminate plant is allowed to develop flowers and release pollen.

Other techniques are available for limiting the size and shape of a developing Cannabis plant without removing meristematic tissues. Trellising is a common form of modification and is achieved in several ways. In many cases space is available only along a fence or garden row. Posts 1 to 2 meters (3 to 6 feet) long may be driven into the ground 1 to 3 meters (3 to 10 feet) apart and wires stretched between them at 30 to 45 centimeters (12 to 18 inches) intervals, much like a wire fence or grape trellis. Trellises are ideally oriented on an east-west axis for maxi mum sun exposure. Seedlings or pistillate clones are placed between the posts, and as they grow they are gradually bent and attached to the wire. The plant continues to grow upward at the stem tips, but the limbs are trained to grow horizontally. They are spaced evenly along the wires by hooking the upturned tips under the wire when they are 15 to 30 centimeters (6 to 12 inches) long. The plant grows and spreads for some distance, but it is never allowed to grow higher than the top row of wire. When the plant be gins to flower, the floral clusters are allowed to grow up ward in a row from the wire where they receive maximum sun exposure. The floral clusters are supported by the wire above them, and they are resistant to weather damage. Many cultivators feel that trellised plants, with increased sun exposure and meristems intact, produce a higher yield than freestanding unpruned or pruned plants. Other growers feel that any interference with natural growth patterns limits the ultimate size and yield of the plant.

Another method of trellising is used when light exposure is especially crucial, as with artificial lighting systems. Plants are placed under a horizontal or slightly slanted flat sheet of 2 to 5 centimeters (1 to 2 inches) poultry netting which is suspended on a frame 30 to 60 centimeters (12 to 24 inches) from the soil surface perpendicular to the direction of incoming light or to the lowest path of the sun. The seedlings or clones begin to grow through the netting al-‘ most immediately, and the meristems are pushed back down under the netting, forcing them to grow horizon tally outward. Limbs are trained so that the mature plant will cover the entire frame evenly. Once again, when the plant begins to flower, the floral clusters are allowed to grow upward through the wire as they reach for the light. This might prove to be a feasible commercial cultivation technique, since the flat beds of floral clusters could be mechanically harvested. Since no meristem tissues are re moved, growth and maturation should proceed on schedule. This system also provides maximum light exposure for all the floral clusters, since they are growing from a plane perpendicular to the direction of light.

Sometimes limbs are also tied down, or crimped and bent to limit height and promote axial growth without meristem removal. This is a particularly useful technique for greenhouse cultivation, where plants often reach the roof or walls and burn or rot from the intense heat and condensation of water on the inside of the greenhouse. To prevent rotting and burning while leaving enough room for floral clusters to form, the limbs are bent at least 60 centimeters (24 inches) beneath the roof of the green house. Tying plants over allows more light to strike the plant, promoting axial growth. Crimping stems and bending them over results in more light exposure as well as inhibiting the flow of auxin down the stem from the tip. Once again, as with meristem removal, this promotes axial growth.

Limbing is another common method of pruning Cannabis plants. Many small limbs will usually grow from the bottom portions of the plant, and due to shading they re main small and fail to develop large floral clusters. If these atrophied lower limbs are removed, the plant can devote more of its floral energies to the top parts of the plant with the most sun exposure and the greatest chance of pollination. The question arises of whether removing entire limbs constitutes a shock to the growing plant, possibly limiting its ultimate size. It seems in this case that shock is minimized by removing entire limbs, including proportional amounts of stems, leaves, meristems, and flowers; this probably results in less metabolic imbalance than if only flowers, leaves, or meristems were removed. Also, the lower limbs are usually very small and seem of little significance in the metabolism of the total plant. In large plants, many limbs near the central stalk also become shaded and atrophied and these are also sometimes removed in an effort to increase the yield of large floral clusters on the sunny exterior margins.

Leafing is one of the most misunderstood techniques of drug Cannabis cultivation. In the mind of the cultivator, several reasons exist for removing leaves. Many feel that large shade leaves draw energy from the flowering plant, and therefore the flowering clusters will be smaller. It is felt that by removing the leaves, surplus energy will be available, and large floral clusters will be formed. Also, some feel that inhibitors of flowering, synthesized in the leaves during the long noninductive days of summer, may be stored in the older leaves that were formed during the noninductive photoperiod. Possibly, if these inhibitor-laden leaves are removed, the plant will proceed to flower, and maturation will be accelerated. Large leaves shade the inner portions of the plant, and small atrophied floral clusters may begin to develop if they receive more light.

In actuality, few if any of the theories behind leafing give any indication of validity. Indeed, leafing possibly serves to defeat its original purpose. Large leaves have a definite function in the growth and development of Cannabis. Large leaves serve as photosynthetic factories for the production of sugars and other necessary growth sub stances. They also create shade, but at the same time they are collecting valuable solar energy and producing foods that will be used during the floral development of the plant. Premature removal of leaves may cause stunting, because the potential for photosynthesis is reduced. As these leaves age and lose their ability to carry on photo synthesis they turn chlorotie (yellow) and fall to the ground. In humid areas care is taken to remove the yellow or brown leaves, because they might invite attack by fungus. During chlorosis the plant breaks down substances, such as chlorophylls, and translocates the molecular components to a new growing part of the plant, such as the flowers. Most Cannabis plants begin to lose their larger leaves when they enter the flowering stage, and this trend continues until senescence. It is more efficient for the plant to reuse the energy and various molecular components of existing chlorophyll than to synthesize new chlorophyll at the time of flowering. During flowering this energy is needed to form floral clusters and ripen seeds.

Removing large amounts of leaves may interfere with the metabolic balance of the plant. If this metabolic change occurs too late in the season it could interfere with floral development and delay maturation. If any floral inhibitors are removed, the intended effect of accelerating flowering will probably be counteracted by metabolic upset in the plant. Removal of shade leaves does facilitate more light reaching the center of the plant, but if there is not enough food energy produced in the leaves, the small internal floral clusters will probably not grow any larger. Leaf removal may also cause sex reversal resulting from a metabolic change.

If leaves must be removed, the petiole is cut so that at least an inch remains attached to the stalk. Weaknesses in the limb axis at the node result if the leaves are pulled off at the abscission layer while they are still green. Care is taken to see that the shriveling petiole does not invite fungus attack.

It should be remembered that, regardless of strain or environmental conditions, the plant strives to reproduce, and reproduction is favored by early maturation. This produces a situation where plants are trying to mature and reproduce as fast as possible. Although the purpose of leafing is to speed maturation, disturbing the natural progressive growth of a plant probably interferes with its rapid development.

Cannabis grows largest when provided with plentiful nutrients, sunlight, and water and left alone to grow and mature naturally. It must be remembered that any alteration of the natural life cycle of Cannabis will affect productivity. Imaginative combinations and adaptations of propagation techniques exist, based on specific situations of cultivation. Logical choices are made to direct the natural growth cycle of Cannabis to favor the timely maturation of those products sought by the cultivator, without sacrificing seed or clone production.

 

[tomatofarmer]

Wizhigh i believe the LEDs are 3000kalvin i googled how to find out but i could be wrong, Don't know the growth rate at one point they grew almost an inch in one night. I transplanted them recently and it seems to have slowed them a little, but they are 26 days old.

FuzzyDuck that info helps a lot thanks man, what is your opinion of topping then? I am working with only 3'6" Space to grow up. Im Thinking about LST regardless

 

[WizHigh]

For those to be 3000k they sure did a good job. I may have to get one just for a side plant. Or to keep a male plant alive to breed.

 

[Fuzzy Duck]

FuzzyDuck that info helps a lot thanks man, what is your opinion of topping then? I am working with only 3'6" Space to grow up. Im Thinking about LST regardless

Don't top a plant more than twice and never top when it is in the flowering stage, this process can actually be repeated almost infinitely, but over-diffusion of apical dominance will produce smaller, lower quality buds, so it is usually done no more than a couple of times or few at best.


LST can be used in conjunction with topping since topping increases axial growth (side shoots), topping is often done a few weeks before beginning LSTing. LSTing works by changing the distribution of hormones; more specifically Auxins, in the plant.

But start with something you feel cormfortable with, if its your first time growing & advance at your own pace

 

[WizHigh]

Why not top a plant more then once? Ive topped multiple times. The plant still grows strong. I have to read that whole post you put up. But I still wouldnt get why not?

 

[Fuzzy Duck]

Why not top a plant more then once? Ive topped multiple times. The plant still grows strong. I have to read that whole post you put up. But I still wouldnt get why not?

Over-diffusion of apical dominance is caused by multiply topping of the original limb/branch.

E.G

1st topping creates 2 new branchs, you then top these 2 new branchs to create 4 new branchs, you then top these new 4 branchs to create 8 branchs & so forth... topping in this manner is known as diffusion of apical dominance which leads to smaller lower qualitie buds.

Hence you only really want to do this a couple of times per limb.

 

[Jimmycricket]

LST its the way to be, Homie G, don't you see? Your plants will be, infinitely, better then thee, grown near the sea, as hard stressed trainees.

If kind buds is what you seek. Look to pick at harvest's peak. Plants are alive, and do most thrive, when stress is low, so they may grow.