WW/Wappa 2L Hempy GLR 1st Grow!

[SauronBlue]

So, here's how I started out:
39"x39"x~72" Agromax grow tent
Roots Organic media(coco coir with perlite and vermiculite)
A 6" clip-on fan
A 6-pack of some kind of seed starter plugs that I think are rockwool
400w HPS ballast/hood combo(~10' cord to ballast)
400w HPS Bulb
Cords for moving light up and down easily
8" coasters for under the plants(in the pic, not gonna use)
Cheapo nutes(not gonna use, but doing well on kitchen plants)
Temperature/humidity display with remote sensor
Blue Planet nutes 2-part plus Liquid Blue
-not pictured(will post pic up tomorrow)-
Vermiculite
Permalite
Hydroton pellets/balls
Reverse Osmosis water
Ph testing kit with up/down adjusters
A couple timers and extension cords
--Carbon filter(DIY) and exhaust fan to come in near future--

The tent was very easy to put together, and was done in about 10 minutes, and that was with having to take it apart when I realized certain corners point up or down. The hardest part was fitting the cover around the metal frame, and required a bit of maneuvering, and you will need close to a foot around the tent to allow you room to work.The great thing is that it will come apart just as easily, and even comes with a carrying case for the disassembled unit. The poles are metal, and much stronger than the 1/2" pvc that I thought it was made of. It easily supports my light, and could probably hold 2 more if I had the room, should have no problem with a fan and scrubber. The weakness of the tent is the fact that the walls are simple cloth(treated to be light/air-proof), and wont allow you to use it to support ducting or anything. You need to find a way to hang everything from the roof, or make a support from the ground up. I'm still working on how to have the simple ducting elbows on there for light blockage without them just flopping around lazily. That one gallon jug is in there for size perspective

 

[1970s Grower]

you can keep humidity in by putting a wash cloth or rag wicked in the water bowl like a kerosene lantern. Wrap the air tube from the pump in the wick. You could also just put an airstone on the end of the tube and put it right in the water dish.

 

[Maer]

Ultrasonic humidifiers are pretty cheap also, I add 2 tsp 10% H2O2 per gallon of RO, that way it lasts forever because you get no mineral and no bacterial buildup.

I suppose you could add H2O2 to the rag technique, I would be afraid of mold or something with that. Then again I have never done it!

 

[R2MNot]

Did number 4 bounce back yet?

Ohh and that does not look like rockwool to me

 

[SauronBlue]

Ultrasonic humidifiers are pretty cheap also, I add 2 tsp 10% H2O2 per gallon of RO, that way it lasts forever because you get no mineral and no bacterial buildup.

I suppose you could add H2O2 to the rag technique, I would be afraid of mold or something with that. Then again I have never done it!

Though I appreciate the suggestion, I doubt I will be incorporating the rag tech into my setup. I don't yet think it's the humidity killing #4, as the others are not suffering with her, and most people are saying I'm good to be on the slightly dry side. The info on the H2O2 was really interesting, I found 35% at about $100 a gallon online, but It would take 3 weeks to get here due to hazmat shipping delays, so I think there are more important things to spend $ on right now, unless a grow store has some locally. -update- there is a local shop with 1L 29% generic brand h2o2 for $10. Is this good, or should I get food grade and dilute down? Do you really see a worthwhile difference with this?

Did number 4 bounce back yet?

Ohh and that does not look like rockwool to me

Thanks to Maer's reference to H2O2, I found a thread out there about H2O2 that had this to say:
"Roots require Oxygen to breathe and low levels are the main cause of almost all root diseases. Both soil and hydroponic plants often fall prey to the same syndrome although it is rarely recognized as what it really is. Hydroponic crops often fail due to "root rot" and soil crops succumb to "over watering." The real cause of both these problems is a shortage of Oxygen at the root zone. In a soil system the soil consists of particles, a film of water on the particles and air spaces between the particles. When too much water is put into the soil the air spaces fill with liquid. The roots will quickly use up what Oxygen is dissolved in the water, if they haven't drunk enough of the liquid to allow air back in to the soil spaces they will stop working. In this situation roots will start dying within twenty-four hours. As the roots die the plants ability to drink water and nutrients will decrease, this will cause symptoms of nutrient deficiencies (mostly pale, slow, weak growth), and strangely they will start to wilt like they don't have enough water. It is easy to make a fatal mistake at this point and add more water."
It goes on to explain how this effect continues to build on itself the longer the condition goes untreated, and the plant dies faster and faster as the roots rot and use up more oxygen in that process, etc. I think this is what happened with #4, as she fits the symptoms, and the plugs really stay moist from the tray in the bottom. I noticed this morning that even the ones I hadn't watered well had soaked up enough water from the res to be really moist on top. If she's still alive when I get home, I will make a last ditch effort to save her by drying her out.

 

[R2MNot]

100 clams a gal sound a little high seems like i get my gals for around 25

 

[SauronBlue]

I did find quite a bit cheaper at grow stores, but not "food grade" or 35% strength. The best I found near me were these 2:

Both are 1L(even though the pic says 4L) and aound $10. They claim to be 29-30%H2O2. Any opinion on the usefulness of this and/or CO2?
Upon closer inspection, I realized that these are both made by nutrilife. Not much info on their site as to the quality or grade(food-grade or bulk)

 

[R2MNot]

The one on the right is what i use

 

[SauronBlue]

Ok, so here's the news: #'s 1 and 2 are thriving still. #3 has still not popped out, not sure what's going on down there. #'s 5 and 6 are both slowly growing, and I helped them both out of their shells very gently(first pic is before, then after). The wappa was much greener under there than the WW are. #4 is confusing the hell out of me, I would really appreciate someone out of all you growers giving me any info about what could be happening with this dying babe.

I'm completely confused as to how to help #4. I am now thinking that the problem is over-watering, so I've put a bottle cap under the plug, to keep it removed from the res, and allow it to dry out a bit. I does appear to be continuing to grow, so I'm nervous about cutting it off from moisture. I did put about .25ml of water on it, just to keep it from drying all the way out, but the plug was still quite moist, especially towards the bottom. There is a good 2-3mm from the bottom of the plugs to the base of the res, so if i had very little water in there or raised it up a bit, I could leave have a res for the searching roots without keeping the plugs so moist.
I put this cap:

in this hole:

then put the plug back in

Why can't we just put straight nutes on a plant, and just allow them to take up what it needs? Why do we need to meter the amount we allow them to have? Also can anyone (Maer?) give me an idea of how long the H2O2 lasts on the plants? I'm planning on growing around 30 clones in hempy's. Any guesses on how much I'll go through on a grow like that, and how drastic an effect it will cause?
Someone needs to make a real "consumer reports" type comparison of different parts of a grow (under controlled settings) to give ratings to lights/nutes/methods/add-ons. Lights could be graded on heat, electric consumption, spread, penetration, lumens, cost, life, etc. - and from that, each would have an overall grade. There is way too much conjecture, and not enough conviction. Why is is so hard to just go to one place and see "led is much more expensive, and has less penetration, but also much less heat output and energy usage compared to hps?" I search for hours for the answers to simple questions, and along the way I get tons of dissenting opinions. We will never win while we are disorganized, and LE is sophisticated. We are wasting boku $ on propaganda that ruins our culture(like auto-flowering seeds!) This is what happens when I don't smoke! lol I'll be back after a mental-health break...

 

[R2MNot]

#3's problem is it didnt get buried deep enough and couldnt get ahold of the cube. It is now busy turning the root that is above ground into stem. It will catch up.
You cant really fiddle with it cause it will break. Cover it up to the green part of the leaf. Grind up some vermiculite or what ever you have on hand if the chunks seem to big.
It doesnt need any more or less water than the others...just time.

H202 is a nice thing to have...but many growers do fine with out it.
You can buy the 1 dollar quarts at walgreens until your budget gets thicker.
Seems like it is 3% it works i have used it many times.

"Why can't we just put straight nutes on a plant"
Same reason you dont give a newborn baby human a rack of babyback ribs for dinner....mmm now i am hungry

 

[R2MNot]

One more thing if it was me as soon as i see anything green i put the cubes in a real container...If you see roots poking out the bottom you are over due to get it in a container. 16oz cups will get you to at least week 2. But you can put them right into the final pots as well.

 

[SauronBlue]

#3's problem is it didnt get buried deep enough and couldnt get ahold of the cube. It is now busy turning the root that is above ground into stem. It will catch up.
You cant really fiddle with it cause it will break. Cover it up to the green part of the leaf. Grind up some vermiculite or what ever you have on hand if the chunks seem to big.
It doesnt need any more or less water than the others...just time.

H202 is a nice thing to have...but many growers do fine with out it.
You can buy the 1 dollar quarts at walgreens until your budget gets thicker.
Seems like it is 3% it works i have used it many times.

"Why can't we just put straight nutes on a plant"
Same reason you dont give a newborn baby human a rack of babyback ribs for dinner....mmm now i am hungry

Do you mean #4? The one that is wilting? Cover the stem on the skinny frail brown part with vermiculite? I also have some coco coir media mix if that's better, but I'm not sure if that's even what you're telling me. Both 3 and 4 are struggling, but 3 is under the surface, 4 is wilting. $1 quarts in walgreens, do you mean just the stuff from the pharmacy aisle that some people put in their ears or clean cuts with? As far as the baby analogy, we're not changing anything about the food other than the amount available in the immediate area - how did we go from baby food to baby-back ribs? We are not injecting or force-feeding, just providing a ready supply in the surrounding water. The plant can still take or leave as much out of the water as it likes, right? You could put a baby in a crib with 100 bottles of formula, and he's not gonna suckle till his head explodes. He gets full, then stops, lets the rest go to waste until his parents clean them away.

Either way, thanks for chiming in.

 

[SauronBlue]

One more thing if it was me as soon as i see anything green i put the cubes in a real container...If you see roots poking out the bottom you are over due to get it in a container. 16oz cups will get you to at least week 2. But you can put them right into the final pots as well.

What about the post I see where they have 2 sets of strong leaves and roots coming out from all sides of the cube at first move? That one tiny root is the only thing coming out of anywhere on each of those 2 cubes, and they are the only 2 with any protrusions.

 

[R2MNot]

yea #4 sorry. Coco should work. As far as when to pot them...thats just what I do.
If you are going hempy the quicker you get it in the hempy pot the quicker the tab root will get down to the res and the real fireworks begin.

 

[Truth Seeker]

One more thing if it was me as soon as i see anything green i put the cubes in a real container...If you see roots poking out the bottom you are over due to get it in a container. 16oz cups will get you to at least week 2. But you can put them right into the final pots as well.

Whats good R2M!!!
just throwing in my 2 cents on your post, I started out with the plugs as well, and in 4 days time the roots were pokin out all over!!! I then put them into the party cups and by the beginning of week 3, they had already rooted the whole cup!!! they are now in 1 gallon pot, and after 4 days the roots have made it to the bottom again, I am using BPN'S Root Magic in my soil though, so I get some rapid growth with my roots!!!
As for planting straight into a big bucket, I am going to have to disagree with you on that 1, I recently had to scrap an indoor project I had going because of the roots not being at the bottom of the bucket, the soil would stay wet, it took 14 days for the soil to dry out!!! all bad!!! other than that!!! no issues!!!

SB,
Man with number 4 I would pull that bad boy, already causing stress, you more likely come out with having a boy!!! are these fem seeds???

 

[SauronBlue]

Whats good R2M!!!
just throwing in my 2 cents on your post, I started out with the plugs as well, and in 4 days time the roots were pokin out all over!!! I then put them into the party cups and by the beginning of week 3, they had already rooted the whole cup!!! they are now in 1 gallon pot, and after 4 days the roots have made it to the bottom again, I am using BPN'S Root Magic in my soil though, so I get some rapid growth with my roots!!!
As for planting straight into a big bucket, I am going to have to disagree with you on that 1, I recently had to scrap an indoor project I had going because of the roots not being at the bottom of the bucket, the soil would stay wet, it took 14 days for the soil to dry out!!! all bad!!! other than that!!! no issues!!!

SB,
Man with number 4 I would pull that bad boy, already causing stress, you more likely come out with having a boy!!! are these fem seeds???

Yes the seeds are fem, and were like $12 each. I already cooked 5 of the 10 pack I bought, so scrapping any plant is a last resort. I wouldn't mind if I was planning on nurturing a mother, but I plan on cutting all of these plants down to start my hempy, so I need as many as I can get to make 25-30 clones.
I like the logic in upgrading the pots in stages, but since I'm new to this, and my final pots will only be 2-liter bottles(not that big), I don't think the advantage outweighs the trouble and potential to screw up and stress my babies further. I didn't even know BP had a rooting mix. Others have told me not to use my rooting gel, as It wont make any difference. I have root tech gel from techna flora. Can I put this in the water when feeding?

 

[SauronBlue]

So, I forgot my camera cord at work today, and it was a crap-ass day, so I didn't feel like going back to get it. Turns out I also left a bunch of spray-painted 2L's that I was gonna pre-fill, and now that I see the growth, I would've planted 2 or 3. So, #4 has made a surprising turnaround! I think giving her a night out of moisture seems to have done her some good. Looks like I've got some decent instincts with this stuff! After covering the holes around the stems with roots media, they are all making good progress. #2 is still the tallest and widest. her spiked leaves have outgrown the round ones. #6 Is almost as big now, and darker green(different strain). #2 is a bit smaller than both of those, but still very strong. #4 is now the same number size-wise, and after helping her out of that cumbersome shell casing, she has some pretty starting leaves fanned out, and even her first jagged leaves. I used a toothpick to dig around in the hole for #3, and realized that she is growing, but for some reason the plant seemed to only grow down from the root, not up from the stem. I pulled the seed husk off with barely any resistance, and there were pretty developed leaves waiting to spring out. By tomorrow she will have jagged leaves showing, but she's at ground level, and I'm too scared of ripping the root to try pulling her up to a better level. The only one that still seems to be struggling is #5, who was salvaged from the original 6 seeds that I over-heated on my cable box trying to germinate. she still looks just as healthy as yesterday, but that's the problem - there's still no progress. I think I'm gonna try giving her a night off from soaking in the res and see if it helps her like it did with #4.

 

[SauronBlue]

So, I just mixed up a batch of nutes for the next couple days, 8 oz water with .25 ml each of part A/B of BPN 2-part and Sugar Daddy, and B-52 with .5ml Root 66. I also have BC Grow/Bloom/Boost, Piranha, Tarantula, Thrive Alive B1 in red and green, MagiCal, and awesome blossom, as well as a sample of rootech gel. I'm planning on using the BPN 2-part as a strong core, but if there is anything else that I could use in my hempys to help things along, why let it go to waste? At the same time, I don't want to negatively affect the balance that is set by the core line. Any and all input is greatly appreciated here. I will be dropping half of the current plants(and later half of the clones) in 2L bottles with about 2" of hydroton in the bottom, just above the drain hole (to keep the coco out of the res, and keep it from draining out with the water), then fill them with Roots Organic soil-less media(coco coir with perlite and vermiculite), then topped with about an inch more of hydroton to seal in the moisture. The other half(of both stages) will be in a mix of 75%perlite/25%vermiculite. I'm sure each will respond better to a slightly different nute schedule, for one thing, the p/v will need cal/mag, where the coco wont.
Thanks all for your support!

 

[SauronBlue]

Hey, hope you don't mind if I keep my eye on this project...

I'm glad to have you, and hope many, many more stop by, and not only watch, but throw ideas around! The whole point of this grow is for me to learn as much as I can, so I need all of your input

 

[SauronBlue]

I was able to get some pix up thru alternate means, so here is a visual update. #4 is growing with renewed vigor! I am no longer watering from the top, just letting these plugs(whatever material they are) to soak up moisture from the little res/drip tray. They stay pretty wet, and hopefully keeps the taproots wet without drowning the rest of the soil. #4 actually has a nice root dangling out the bottom, and #1 has cross roots, or bat-wings coming off of the main root(though I can't get a decent pic with this camera). #5 is still growing very slowly, but still looking strong, #3 has not flopped her leaves open, though they are now exposed to the light and air. The seedlings now average 1.5-2". I am preparing hempy homes for the first 4 now. I think I'll wait a day or 2 before transplanting. Temps have been a bit chilly, right now it's 72f in there, I'm under my blanket to cover my chilly toes out here. If I wanted to warm them up, would turning the lamp on outside of the "day" schedule be bad for them? Since the tent is open, the get at least 2-3 hours a day of considerable splash-over from soft white bedroom lights. You can see how they are slightly leaning away from the fan, though I think that's good to toughen up the stem, right? I would think that if they weren't challenged by breezes, the stalks would become weak and spindly, no? I do wonder if it would help to rotate them, so as to have the wind blow them in every direction, not just the same way all the time. I am planning to get a conversion bulb this week to make my setup MH. This is the bulb:
400W MH Conversion 7200k $15 online
conversion series lamps allow you to use the same fixture/ballast for different stages of plant growth. From the vegetative to the flowering stages, conversion series have it all.
Unless anyone feels I should make a change, I plan to get this bulb and a 1L bottle of the H2O2 from an earlier post, sometime this week. Any opinions on whether storing my RO water in plastic containers for weeks before using on my plants will cause any transfer of chemicals or anything like that? I am now using 2L bottles to store the water, but i plan to switch to 5-gal buckets with lids as I make use of the bottles.