1st Grow - 4 Strains - 2'x3' Closet - CFL Veg - Mars-Hydro Reflector Flower

[Dan Ultra]

First, I'll just say they lost all my business until they can learn how to change with technology.
Secondly, if CalMag products were a hoax, it would be bullshit in a bottle, and contain no calcium or magnesium.

And basically what they seem to be saying is: "We lack the ability and/or knowledge and/or desire to thoroughly test our products in mediums grown with LED lighting. So we don't care about those customers who choose to grow with LED lights. Thank you for your purchase, but you're on your own and we refuse to help you"

Horrible way to do business IMO.

CalMag seems to be an absolute necessity with LEDs and coco. When it comes to LED and soil, you may or may not need it, and that will really depend mostly on the strain. They're just like people. Some people like pizza more than others. Some strains like Calcium and Magnesium more than others.

I like pizza a lot, if anyone was wondering

Now if the problem isn't advancing, which is doesn't appear to be, I would ignore it as chalk it up to being a fluke. I had one leaf on my Cotton Candy show a nasty phosphorous deficiency. No other leaves affected, so I took no action.
But it does look like a Magnesium problem. But again, I wouldn't worry unless it keeps advancing.

Now for your LST. Good start, BUT you don't want that wire on your branches. As the plant grows the wire will cut into the branches. You can take small sections of drinking straws to slip over the wire, and give you a wider contact area with the branch.

Well said Antics. For the record, I like pizza a lot too.

That gardening wire is okay to use as long as it isn't wrapped tight around the stems. I used it for all my flux training and had not issues. I basically made a J hook on the end to grab the branch and then secured it where I needed it on the pot edge. (or in my case the hamper edge). Just be careful not to make it tight on the stems and not to pull too hard on them in one direction.

 

[Happyjoy]

thnks everyone for ur input and advice.
btw i also like pizza!

i actually wrote back to biobizz telling them that in any case im using LED's since thats what works the best in my case, and i asked them for advice what to do. heres what they wrote back:

Ok, we understand why youhave made the choice to use LED’s. Again, we have never used any Ca/Mg supplements when growing with Biobizz under LED’s. this was the result. Stick to the light-mix schedule and during flowering slowly increase Bio-bloom to between 5-10ml per liter. Only if the plants ask for it! Some genetics need a lot of nutrients, other require less. There is no exact science for this, since there are so many different genetics.



This was the result of a test we did with a medicinal grower from Central-Europe. So this is what you can look forward too:


Ok, we understand why youhave made the choice to use LED’s. Again, we have never used any Ca/Mg supplements when growing with Biobizz under LED’s. this was the result. Stick to the light-mix schedule and during flowering slowly increase Bio-bloom to between 5-10ml per liter. Only if the plants ask for it! Some genetics need a lot of nutrients, other require less. There is no exact science for this, since there are so many different genetics.



they also sent me some pics of the test grow they did with LED's.

i think theyre main point they meant is that, LED lighting doesnt just need more cal/mag. they claim that it causes the plants to need much more of other nutes also, and people just tend to focus only on the cal/mag instead of fixing the whole nute problem....not sure what the final conclusion is though. its just their opinoin.

my question is now, how in the world do i know to recognize if each particular plant likes pizza (i mean extra nutes) or not?

what signs am i looking for if i decide to start feeding them extra

 

[Antics]

Just watch for deficiencies: Cannabis Plant and Pest Problem Solver - Pictorial

If you see one, first step is to verify PH is correct (in soil usually you just know it's good with regular 6.5 feedings, and soil buffer keeps things good) If PH is good, then just increase nutes slightly.

 

[Weaselcracker]

Yes- most of the things on that chart will be seen because of ph probems, or sometimes overwatering.
You will never need, in a stoned moment, to suddenly go rushing to the corner store desperately asking to buy 'a bottle of manganese , please'. It doesn't work that way.
I actually recently managed to have actual deficincies- from underfeeding! I was seeing leaf problems starting, and being so cautious about over feeding, and confusing myself over trying to use my (newish) tds meter, that I kept reducing the nutes from the schedule I'd used for years (new strains- I figured maybe they were super sensitive...), and eventually started flushing. I got all sorts of crazy problems- yellow and black and brown crispy dying leaves. A full feeding stopped the probems cold.
So underfeeding can happen. But it takes dedication.
Try to follow a cautious version of the nutrient schedule provided by the company. Over fertilizing usually shows up at the leaf tips first. If that happens stop feeding for a bit and watch. But always keep an eye on ph and never overwater. Keeping the plants wet for extended periods will give a bunch of deficiencies as well.

 

[Happyjoy]

thnks everyone for this priceless advice! little by little tihngs are coming along.

btw heres a follow up email from biobizz.(not nearly as helpfull as ur chart, but theyre trying to help) turns out theyre not too bad afterall.
Here some things you can detect visually, to be sure that you are on the right track:

Dark green leafs and shiny: perfect nutrient regime

Lighter green leafs: increase the dosage a little

Yellow leafs: contact us and we'll have a look together. Please be aware at the end of the cycle, leafs are supposed to be yellow/light green.





When leaves are curling down or up, the tips of the leafs become yellow, and the edges of the leafs curl up: overdosage!



Joy, it all sounds maybe very complicated, but it is not as hard as you might think. Use common sense and a bit of logic, to be able to determine that a plant needs. So check your plants every day, check leaf color and general impression. You'll get the hang of it soon enough. Use your experiences to learn and improve yourself. A remember: you are growing crops that will ALWAYS give you a yield, even if you might do everything wrong.



We apologize, this answer to your questions is a bit general and vague, but that is just how it is. We do enjoy mailing with you howeverJ

heres some pics of the end of this week.
MEDI HAZE is already a week into LST. looking great

heres the durBAN POISON and MAUI WAUI just a few days after LST'ng
i used a different LST method with these two, than i did on the medi haze. i tied down the plant already from the stem (similiar to the fluxing idea) since they werent tall enough, but they were getting very bushy.

HERES A pic of the AUTO strain. getting really crystally

and heres a profile pic of all of them

btw as u can all see, i squeezed the grow over into the corner of the room to leave room for my fans and to make the light more concentrated. so if i keep them restricted like this, ill be having around 50W per sq ft, instead of 30W


so are things ready now to flip the switch?
for refrences sake, the pots are 3 gallon pots.

if im gonna flip the switch, should i first put up the SCROG net, and how much above the plants am i aiming? the medi haze is around 1.5 inches taller than the others.


i think im kinda getting the hang of it. the medi haze and durban leaves look pretty uniform and green. the maui waui is light green down the middle of the leaves. kindof like the leaves are darker green on the outlines than the insides. if this continues, so ill add extra nutes to the maui next time.
the only thing is, as of now, the plants are being watered once every 6 days till theyre ready for the next feeding (i think). so that means, that if i see i need to feed more nutes to balance out a plant, i need to wait till next watering?
thnks again for all the input

 

[Weaselcracker]

Most people put the scrog screen 8-12" above the top of the pots, while they are in veg, spreading the branches in to the screen as they grow, and then flip to 12/12 when the screen is about 2/3 full.
I don't do it this way, because I have two rooms- a veg and a flower room. It's awkward/impossible for me to get screens on some of the vegging plants and then carry them to the flowering room later- so I just put the screen on at the same time as I take it to the flowering room, which works just as well. You can put the screen on any time between now and shortly after the flip.
It's nice to have at least 7 or 8 inches space above the pot so you can get your hands in there to groom the plant, and also to water, etc. but it's not essential.
Try to guesstimate when your available growing space is about 60% full, then flip to 12/12.
I like to have about one bud for every 4" or so of space
I've found so far that even my stretchiest sativas can be tamed by weaving them back into the screen if the tops grow too tall.
About the feeding thing- you can always top up with a little more feeding during the week if they seem underfed, or flush if they get over fed. The options are open. Underfeeding will take longer to take effect and cause damage than over feeding will.
I hope this helps. Good luck.
They're looking good

 

[Happyjoy]

thnks again.
its amazing how the plants really speak out their needs. i never knew it was like this before

before this past watering (which was the fist watering with the full amount of nutes since flushing two weeks ago), the medi haze used to have light green on the insides of all the leaves, surrounded by dark green. it was very thirsty for nutes.

after this past watering, just two days after, all the leaves of the medi haze became a solid nice green color. and all the other plants also look much more solid of a color. really cool

 

[Happyjoy]

should i top the medi haze again? its getting really long. the main two branches that were lst'd are already reaching over the pot into the other pots spaces.
should i top those main two branches so that the other plants will have time to catch up? or does it not really matter, since ill be putting up the screen soon, so ill just start weaving the medi haze into the screen?

should i be doing any pruning on the plants? the durban and maui are really crowded and condensed. just so much growth mashed together. is there some parts i should be looking to take off to make things more spacey and allow the plant to focus its energy on the best parts of it?

also another question.

on the auto plant, about 2/3 down the plant, theres large fan leaves, and they seem to be shading out the rest of the plant underneath them. however theres alot of budding action going on down there under those leaves. should i take them off, or trim them or something like that to give the lower bud formations more light? ive heard different opinions about pruning autos...especially since its flowering already. maybe i should just cut those leaves in half to avoid too much shock, or is it best to just leave them? it has about 2.5 weeks left to flower accoridng to the breeders.

 

[Happyjoy]

hey there everyone!
end of week 6. and things seems to be going great.

im planning on flipping to 12/12 now. but i just realized, yesterday i went and topped about a third of the many growths on the medi haze because its outgrowing the other plants by too much and has sets of leaves coming up everywhere. do you think its ok even so, if i switch to 12/12 so soon after topping? ive read in general to wait at least a week after topping....but beint that its only a small portion of the plant, and already later on in growth, is it ok to switch now wtihout waiting a week? (i dont want it to grow too much more or ill be out of room on the SCROG screen even before i start


heres some pics of the auto. should i groom those fan leaves? it looks like theyre shading out the lower parts, where theres some nice budding happening there.
the auto is almost 7 weeks old. and from most of what ive seen online from actual growers, it takes between 55-60 days from seed
so that means i should have another week and a half maximum. is there any point in trimming the fan leaves now?

i like that photo next to the salt shaker. autos are so crazy.
btw how much dyou guys reckon is on the plant after its dried? around 2.5?
(P.S i must point out that i made too many mistakes with this auto. im sure if i would have started it out from the begining in the correct sized pot in the correct soil/nutes, and not have transplanted it too many times, that it would have been taller.)
thnks

 

[Weaselcracker]

I don't think you should mess with the auto, just let it do it's thing. As for the Medihaze - up to you whether to top or not. You still have a little bit of time.
I do think you should trim some of the undergrowth out- the part of the plants that will always be in the dark. This, and the topping, I would do no sooner than a week before the flip, so the plant can be unmolested for the week prior to flipping it. Then I usually don't do much trimming during the first 3 weeks of flowering, while it's stretching. I just tuck and arrange things as they grow. After the plant stops stretching I trim any more undergrowth away, and pinch off the lower budsites. When they're flowering they tend to get very bushy and crowded if you don't do some cleanup.

 

[Happyjoy]

I don't think you should mess with the auto, just let it do it's thing. As for the Medihaze - up to you whether to top or not. You still have a little bit of time.
I do think you should trim some of the undergrowth out- the part of the plants that will always be in the dark. This, and the topping, I would do no sooner than a week before the flip, so the plant can be unmolested for the week prior to flipping it. Then I usually don't do much trimming during the first 3 weeks of flowering, while it's stretching. I just tuck and arrange things as they grow. After the plant stops stretching I trim any more undergrowth away, and pinch off the lower budsites. When they're flowering they tend to get very bushy and crowded if you don't do some cleanup.

ok thnks.
so ur saying that i should wait a week since yesterday (last time i topped the medi haze) to flip the switch in order to give it time to recooperate?

its not so clear to me which of the growth i should be trimming. u said, 'some of the undergrowth, the part that will always be in the dark'. but i dont know yet what part will always be in the dark....
in other words, all the different sets of leaves on the lower stems, that dont have long stems? its hard for me to get the picture, and also to know how much of it to trim off.

on another topic,
ever since i moved to bigger pots, the humidity in the room has jumped drastically (also at the same time weve been having more humid weather than before). the humidity in my room reaches between 45-65%. this really worries me, as i read that its not ideal for flowering. im kind of at a loss of what to do about it....

 

[Weaselcracker]

65% or less RH- don't worry about it. I've been running for years with the RH around 80 and it gets into the 90s when I flush or water a lot. It's not great- very much borderline and I'm watching for mold whenever I get large buds. But I'm usually fine. I get the occasional bit of bud rot in the largest buds. I keep a few movement fans going in there which is a big help. Dehumidifier is on way (finally!).
I'm not saying my situation is good. But yours will be fine.
As for the undergrowth- well- it's a bit hard to explain I suppose. But if you just leave it, it will be fine. After the stretch, take out everything below the screen. By then you'll have a good sense of how they grow and the next time know what to trim off in advance. It's not essential to do it now (or ever, for that matter). Just helps air flow and plant growth distribution.
As for waiting a week- I just like to let them have an easy week of growth before I flip- but again, it's not going to make a huge difference if you just flip them anytime from now on.

 

[Happyjoy]

OH NO!
ive been noticing some small little tiny flies flying around the grow room sometimes. i read they might be the little fungus nats.
so i put up some yellow sticky papers and sure enough, by the end of the day, ive got 3 of the flies stuck to them

i guess thats not too infested,,,or is it?

so what should i do? ive been reading online a bunch of different info.
i would prefer the most natural apporach obviously. im considering tea tree oil mixed in water and to spray that.

also another issue. i saw a small red looking beatle type of insect. about 1/4 inch long, crawling on one of the leaves (no clue how it got inside).i tried grabbing it and it quickly dissapeared. (the only thing that looks similiar what i saw online is maybe an adult thripe, but i cant figure out how it got in, and why its just one. could just be some sort of bug.). i also noticed some different leaves here and there chewed up.
i cant seem to identify it in any of the online sources. all this really upsets me. i dont want them to ruin my garden.

ill be taking a trip to the grow shop ASAP to see what organic solutions they have. but i wanted to check first with u guys to see if u have any ideas in the meantime...

i also considered sprinkling cinnamon on top of the soil....?

as far as keepign the soil dry. im trying my best not to overwater (once every 6 six days, in a 3 gallon container).. perhaps im still overdoing it? its hard for me to have the fans directly on the soil since the leaves are all pretty close due to the LST'ng.

 

[Weaselcracker]

Air circulation from the fans helps keep mold at bay. They don't need to be pointed at the soil. Just gauge when to water based on the weight of the plants. I can't help you with the bugs- I haven't had those particular ones. Probably the beetle is just a beetle. Lots of threads in the forum about gnats. I get the feeling they're easily controlled.

 

[Happyjoy]

hey there everyone. i have two questions.
1)about to set up the scrog. just wondering, what in the world do you guys do for taking out the runoff water when in scrog?
up till now ive taken the plants over to the sink for watering, and then after waiting ten minutes, i spill everything out of the tray under the pots. but being that everything will be tied up, and i dont have a liquid vacume, what should i do? since i dont want the pots sitting in the runuff water.
also: is it ok to water the plant from just one point, or should i water all around the surface of the earth? i was thinking about connecting a little tube so that i can easily attatch a funnel and water, but then all the water will just go to one point.

2)trying to figure out if the auto strain is ready. heres a whole bunch of pictures. ive been looking through my 45x loupe, but having a hard time deciding if its clear white or amber. (first time).
the reason i really dont want to overdue it, is that the strain is sourcrack from mephisto genetics. they say that its a indica/sativa hybrid and is prone to couchlock if overdone. but is cerebral and energtic if harvested at the correct time since it has a strong sativa parentage.
the average time ive seen online from actual grows, is actual the same timeframe that mephisto genetics quotes 55-65 days from seed. (yes its not just a sales perk, actual growers say thats what they had also). being that today im at day 55 i dont want to go too much. however since i had alot of messups at the begining of the grow, its possible the growth got slowed down
so heres the photos:

this last photo is the lower part of the plant, it looks to me like its maturing slower than the top.

 

[Weaselcracker]

As usual happyjoy I'm short on time- but maybe someone else will wander in with some more info as well.for the drain thing- you'll have to do some DiY. For my room I made a drain in the floor. I've seen people build shelves for their plants which had several layers of plastic, a lip around the edges, and were tilted a little to run off though a drain installed at the lowest point, with a basin under there to catch the runoff. Or you may be lucky enough to find something that can work as a large basin to put the plants on. I've seen things like- bases for animal cages, and lids of large plastic totes that would work. Give yourself enough height to get a water collecting bucket of some sort underneath, and put a drain in the low point. A small electric water pump would also work ok if you don't have the room to raise everything up that much.
You can use a long necked watering can to water as well. It may be 'sort of' ok to water all at one point if you are completely flooding the plant's pot to the brim and letting gravity do the rest. I like to spread the water flow around a little if possible.
My non expert opinion re the trichomes would be- you could probably start flushing now if you wanted to. You could also start in a week if you wanted a little different high. Flush it well and you'll see when the plant turns yellow as the nutes are taken out.

 

[Weaselcracker]

Oh yeah- re the drain, I meant to mention...
In one area I have a 4' x4' space with seedlings and no drain. I made a platform of plywood raised about 5 inches from the floor. The plants sit on this. About 10" back from the front edge of this little platform, and in the center (left to right) I screwed through and down to the floor causing the plywood to form a dip in this spot. All water runs down, and out the valley formed at the front edge, into a low basin I put underneath.
Was at a friends place who is doing reno today and saw the base of a shower stall they are tossing out. I may grab it for this purpose, though it's a bit undersized for me- about 3'x3'. Was thinking of you when I saw it, lol.

 

[Happyjoy]

hey everyone! (thnks weaselcracker for thinking about me when u saw that drain )

so im currently one week into flower. the plants are all female . (feminised seeds)

i ended up doing a small DIY project for the drainage issue. i bascially built a small frame to hold the plant pots in the air, and have the run off trays underneath it. theres also enoguh room under there for when i wanna flush, so that i can fit a large wide plast box or something like that.



here i took a pic with just one plant so that its clearer to see whats going on.

i also put up my SCROG screen.
heres some pics: (i didnt cut the screen sticking out in the front and back, just in case ill want to use more space for tying down).
and heres the plant under the screen:

the screen was a big plastic screen with small .5 inch holes. i cut them out leaving myself with holes of about 2.5 inches. i made some different sizes to experiment which ones ill like the best.

so heres my question:
i put the screen about 8 inches above the pots so that ill have room to service the plants under the screen.

the lowest flowering tops are about 6inches from the screen. and the closest ones are about 2".

does that mean that the screen is too far away? i was under the impression that im suppposed to train the branches vertically under the screen till about week 2 of flower, and then let them go up through. but being that i just put in the screen now at week 1, im not sure if theyll even all make it up to the screen by week 2.

1) should i lower the screen?
2) should i tye down the taller branches so that theyre all about the height, or should i just solve the height difference now with runnign them vertical under the screen, and tucking, etc?

thnks!

(p.s. one more thing.
i suddenly started questioning the purpose of my active air intake fan. being that ive got a good strong exhaust, whcih seems to be doinga great job. and the tent is definately well sealed, and theres a little vacume in the tent, is it even nescesary to have an active intake?
do people just put active intakes, in order to control the incoming air, to make it less than it otherwise would be? in other words, is it possible that my active 4" vent intake fan could be giving me less air, than if i would leave it a passive hole, since the exhaust has a stronger CFM than the intake?)

thnks again!

 

[Weaselcracker]

Hey. As I probably mentioned, I always put the screen on at the time I switch to 12-12 flowering. I just did one today. I have the screen about 8" above the pot, and most of the branches/ growing tips are above the screen by 2-3 inches. The screen is completely full. This particular plant was vegged a bit bigger/longer than I would prefer. It won't be a problem though- I'll just tuck and tie down branches to keep them even over the next couple weeks.
Based on this though- I think probably your screen is too high and you should lower it so if possible all tips are above the screen, and go from there. If that doesn't give you much room to work under the plant- don't worry about it- you'll still find a way. It seems to me that the tips don't grow much unless they're above the screen. If they stretch a lot you can raise the screen later.
Yes your intake fan could possibly be interfering with the air flow more than it's helping. Try it without for a while and see. I only use an outtake fan and just let the fresh cooling air get sucked in through a lower vent. I made a 'passive door' for it as well- hinges open when it gets sucked open by the upper fan- closes by gravity when the fan goes off. Blocks light and smell.

 

[Happyjoy]

thnks again weaselcracker.
u seem to be the only one responding to my journal all the time. i may as well just be pm'ing you

i wonder why my plants are so far away from the screen.... maybe i lst'd them too low all the time. or maybe its the LED grow that keeps it from stretching