Automaria II (First Grow)

[RickyW]

Funny you say that, I have felt as if when I have a positive outlook, things seem to go smooth, again man thanks for all the support, dont know where I'd be without it

So many people are telling me to go with a light schedule, guess Ill break down and get a timer.

Would you suggest transplanting AGAIN with some MG time release ferts?? That just means Ill have to transplant for the 100th time come flowering when I want to flush all that crap out of the girls.

I gave my buddy one of my seeds, and in a month his is about a foot tall with MG soil! WTF. But like I've said, from my research his will taste "Nutey".

No, lol dont transplant again. Time release nutes will only complicate things. Just use nutes. Id go 1/4 strength at first.

 

[jwb87]

K, thank God.

Only prob like I said is my PPM meter being whacked.

Didnt buy any calibration liquid, and there are NO hydro stores within 1 hour 1 way here, friggen blows! Anyone in Maine know of any across the border??

Any suggestions on the leaves curling UP now? Been searching these forums like crazy but cant find my exact problem, tried "curling, curled, dehydrated, watering" & those types of keywords in the search function.

 

[RickyW]

Only prob like I said is my PPM meter being whacked.

Forget about that ppm meter, just be careful in your measurements. Follow the feeding schedule. If its not on the nute containers Im sure its on their website. Dont forget 1/4 strength for first feeding.

 

[jwb87]

Haha wish I had your green thumb dammit!

Well on page 2 of my journal, OS had suggested this

As I dont have anything on my bottles of nutes.

Just kind of tough to determine 1/8 or 1/4 strength with an oral syringe and a gallon of water ya know, maybe Im missing something??

 

[RickyW]

Haha wish I had your green thumb dammit!

Well on page 2 of my journal, OS had suggested this

As I dont have anything on my bottles of nutes.

Just kind of tough to determine 1/8 or 1/4 strength with an oral syringe and a gallon of water ya know, maybe Im missing something??

That looks great. Use the tsp/gal ratio. Grab an empty milk container (do I need to say a gal lol) and clean it with a little bleach. Then add ur nutes to the gal of water using any kitchen measuring utensils (bleached as well). Bingo. Water the girls first with reg water, then 5 min later water with the jug-o-nutes.

 

[jwb87]

That looks great. Use the tsp/gal ratio. Grab an empty milk container (do I need to say a gal lol) and clean it with a little bleach. Then add ur nutes to the gal of water using any kitchen measuring utensils (bleached as well). Bingo. Water the girls first with reg water, then 5 min later water with the jug-o-nutes.

Lol OUCH, but touche!

I have a whole bunch of gal containers, I buy $.78 jugs of distilled water, empty em out, and use them to get my water from the Petshop.

I also bought a 2 gal container to mix my nutes & water in appropriately, then add to my watering pitcher.

So according to that chart, I want to add roughly 3/4 a TSP of EACH nute to the gal & mix.

Shit I still need to just get the damn hang of watering these girls! Im still afraid I'm UNDERwatering due to these curling leaves!!!

But like Ive said, that one girl has a nice root structure already, so I think she'll take it nice!

 

[Jack Dos]

Hello jwb,

I'm a first time'r as well. You might want to check out my grow journal for some ideas you can read about it in my sig.

I've been watching your grow and here is what I've gathered.

1. You used rockwool. -Fail. Rockwool is mostly used for hydro. It's an easy starter as you can judge the weight for water and reduce the risk of over watering. BUT, when transplanted into soil. They soak up too much moisture and dry out too quickly for soil. DO NOT USE ROCKWOOL.
-Good tip to remember; Stems are Purple/Drooping leaves/yellowing tips, They're choking, water. Stems/leaves should always be green and be able to hold themselves at a level height.

2. Your soil, not a good choice. As you can see it is made of organic material (compost) but, it is very thick. This is cheaply made. You need coarse organic material, such as organic hummus, or cocoa or vermicompost. or all three if your making your own soil. I have also in my sig how to make a great soil mix. 100% natural. Made it myself and you can see the results.

3. I see your stems are stressing, as well as your leaves. This is due to lack of water. Raw material soil like what your using needs to be wet-ed before use. Rock wool is going to soak up all the water anyways, and dry out... its going to make it very hard to judge how much to water the soil because of this. Thus dont use cheap soil with very large organic matter is it allows for too much water overload (like a sponge) and there is a lot of air gaps for the air to dry the soil out faster. thus your rock wool is going to dry out even faster. With the heat your at, your plants are going to need a lot more watering and as the pictures are showing, they are not getting it properly.

4. You are worrying too much about the water Ph. Use city tap. Water from the stem on outward with water that is at grow room temp. City water will balance out seedlings and give them everything they need to live until week 3-5. You need strong roots before taking the seedlings to another source. Meaning you are germinating your seedlings in rock wool. then taking them to jiffy cups. Put them in jiffy cups. Transplant after week 2-4. When the root system has started, the root ball is strong and just use regular water. No nutrients are needed during this time.

5. If using organic soil, your going to need nutrients later on. These can be added naturally by adding natural ingredients in the watering (starting about week 2) and then on. Natural soil will have minimal nutrients in it for growing. It does have stuff in it for germination and seedlings, thus plants at this time do not need much to grow naturally. But later on you need things added to your soil. I have this in my natural mix in my sig as well.

6. Don't worry too much. This will give you a bad vibe and send bad vibes to your flowers. I have had this as well. You can go through my journal if you like and see I have gone through the exact same thing. Hopefully my journal can help and I will keep watching your journal progress to see how you are doing.

7. Although I've never used auto's. I recommend during germ you stick with a light schedule until root foundation forms. I wouldn't care what they have done to make them auto's, light is light, and if they were outside, they would have 12-18 hrs of daylight. (16 hrs during seedling stage will guarantee 80% better chance of females.) so if you got auto seeds (non-fem) then I would suggest this. I went with 16/8 for 2-3 weeks before changing to 18/6. Until hight is set, and strong root system is generated I would suggest this. Although, like I said I know nothing about auto's but it doesn't hurt to stay natural.

Finally, I love your 12V setup. Check mine out as well. What fans are you using. Hopefully you can use fans that produce about 130+cfm. @3000-4500 rpm's. Use Kazi Ultra's. They are cheap and effective. I run mine about 15~17v. only using 1.0A.

Hope this isn't too critical and hope this helps. Good luck on your research

 

[jwb87]

Thanks for the feedback alt, cant figure out the multi quote but here goes:

1. Yes, I understand rockwool is intended for a medium in regards to hydro, and hydro is what I had bought EVERYTHING for, but again, I backed out for my first grow or two. Still Ive seen enough people use it for germing, but I probably wont use it again. Id rather use the papertowel method and plant directly into this same soil I have now. Though I do wish someone local (even an hour away) had even HEARD of the term Fox Farms, they always look at me like I have two heads.

2. The pictures of the plants in the green pots was an organic material, but it turned out something similar to bark mulch lol. So I REtransplanted to some seedling starter soil that is very light, including PH balancing lime, vermiculite, a water gather(er) or something, and peat moss. So far have been pretty happy with it, just wish this was what I used ASAP.

3. Watering is def. my biggest issue, still dont have it down pat, but you gotta live and learn, not everyone is a professional herb gardener first try, hell Im surprised one plants doing as well as it is so far, Ive never grown SHIT haha. I did notice the purp stems though, did raise a flag in my mind but hadnt thought much of it yet...

4. I agree, again I wish I had simply used the papertowel method - > solo cups with this soil (or fox farms ocean w/e stuff). Def. think things would have gone smoother, but still cant find that good stuff! But I havent concerned tooooo much about the PH level, hell I even have PH up/down for when I planned to go hydro, but Ive just been relying on my petshops 7.0 (supposedly) water, and giving a few drops here and there at the base of the plant.

5. I have the 3 part AN nutes, Gro,Micro,Bloom, and from what Ive read I shouldnt start using it till roughly the 3rd node appears, not sure if that pertains to Lowryder AF's or if it matters.

6. I knooooow, "K.I.S.S." but I just cant, hell I worry about these girls 24/7, Im obsessed with them. Like everyone says, these things are WEEDS, they grow in crazy ass conditions, gotta sit back and let them do their thing, but its hard, I think its just a first grower thing (for the most part).

7. As per several recommendations, tomorrow I'm going to pick up a digital timer to go either 18/6 or something a little lighter (no pun intended). Everything needs to rest, we as humans need sleep to recharge ourselves, and what I've been doing to these girls is inhumane, they need to slow their photosynthesis, and let their sugars and whatnot build up in the "dark" hours.


Thanks, not exactly what I was hoping for, the transformers are only rated for .6Ma, thats why I'm using ONE per each fan. I had intended to use 1 transformer for TWO fans, but I didnt feel like overloading them. They only push 53.24CFM, but with 3 running I can keep my temp below 80 (and my AC running 24/7 in my room).

I eventually want to add a powerstrip along the back of the wall and throw in a few Y splitters with several CFLs for the 2700 spectrum to add supplemental lighting as well.

All help/suggestions are always welcome, its nice to learn something new everyday, hell I'm only 23 and I dont claim to know JACK about growing, I want all the help I can get! Thanks alt

 

[jwb87]

Alright, getting close to just pulling 3 out of the 4.

I know I talk about watering allot, but I still think thats what killed them, was LACK of watering.

Even when I put them in soil I do not believe the soil was "saturated." I had used a syringe of water and called that good, where as I believe I should have used my pitcher and waited to see a few drops of water come out the bottom of the cup.

Again I have 2 more Attitude seeds left that I can start to germ, but this means Ill have to learn about a REAL light schedule for normal plants (seedling/sprout/veg/bloom cycles) as I don't know which stage needs which lighting.

Hoping the 1 Auto left will go fine with that light cycle, dont think it should really matter though...


Rewatered the plants this morning with a decent amount of water & used a pencil to make holes through the entire depth of the soil in an attempt to try and rececitate them. But we shall see later today if I did my girls in or not

 

[Lou Weed]

Check this out, it applies to all plants under the sun, or HID or LED.

The Effects of Light & Darkness on Plant Growth | eHow.com

This article uses bigger words to say the same thing I was, except they cite some universities on the particularly relavent facts.

But, on a similar note, for normal photoperiodic plants, you just use 18/6 for sprout/seedling/veg, and 12/12 for flower.
Generally, veg until you can see pistils forming at the nodes(preflowers), then either clone or move to flower, or both. The plant should be about anywhere from a month to three months old by the time it is sexually mature(preflowers), and only after that should you begin flowering(otherwise you stress the plant).
Flowering is pretty straightforward, just 12/12, switch fertilizer, and wait. The cool thing is, flowering starts whenever YOU initiate the process, it doesn't just happen. And that's pretty much it for basic light cycles. People have lot's of variations, but this is really the K.I.S.S. of growing/light.

If you want, you can use 12/12 from seed to finish, the plant will grow like an autoflower: it will grow for a couple weeks/month then flower for two months. This method doesn't yield as much as standard grow ops, with the 18/6 for veg, however.

Check out Buds for Less by SeeMoreBuds. It's a pretty cool day by day cfl grow. I found it crazy because he induces flowering on the 16th day.

 

[Jack Dos]

Alright, getting close to just pulling 3 out of the 4.

I know I talk about watering allot, but I still think thats what killed them, was LACK of watering.

Even when I put them in soil I do not believe the soil was "saturated." I had used a syringe of water and called that good, where as I believe I should have used my pitcher and waited to see a few drops of water come out the bottom of the cup.

Again I have 2 more Attitude seeds left that I can start to germ, but this means Ill have to learn about a REAL light schedule for normal plants (seedling/sprout/veg/bloom cycles) as I don't know which stage needs which lighting.

Hoping the 1 Auto left will go fine with that light cycle, dont think it should really matter though...


Rewatered the plants this morning with a decent amount of water & used a pencil to make holes through the entire depth of the soil in an attempt to try and rececitate them. But we shall see later today if I did my girls in or not

Sup jwb,

Yeah, basically my ramble was about lack of watering, lol. It's always hard to judge in soil. That's why I think most do hydro. But, that's just my opinion.

I am actually using outdoor air, vented into my grow closet. over 300cfm outside air going into the room constantly. =D

So, you can say its an outdoor'sy style. But, indoors. Watering is the friggen hardest to judge. When it rains, I usually water, for however long it rains. Because the humidity is so low, the plants eat up the water. Right after it rains, they wont take any water at all. So, its just like its outside. It took me until the death of 3 plants to get this down. =( Sad, but true. Also, watching the stems will help dramatically. The colour of the stems and leaves show exactly what the plant is doing. Also, watch the growth, it should be slow, but steady, depending on what week your on.

I will be watching. Hope this helps, I love people that have the same level of passion as myself =D

Good luck as well!

 

[jwb87]

Check this out, it applies to all plants under the sun, or HID or LED.

The Effects of Light & Darkness on Plant Growth | eHow.com

This article uses bigger words to say the same thing I was, except they cite some universities on the particularly relavent facts.

But, on a similar note, for normal photoperiodic plants, you just use 18/6 for sprout/seedling/veg, and 12/12 for flower.
Generally, veg until you can see pistils forming at the nodes(preflowers), then either clone or move to flower, or both. The plant should be about anywhere from a month to three months old by the time it is sexually mature(preflowers), and only after that should you begin flowering(otherwise you stress the plant).
Flowering is pretty straightforward, just 12/12, switch fertilizer, and wait. The cool thing is, flowering starts whenever YOU initiate the process, it doesn't just happen. And that's pretty much it for basic light cycles. People have lot's of variations, but this is really the K.I.S.S. of growing/light.

If you want, you can use 12/12 from seed to finish, the plant will grow like an autoflower: it will grow for a couple weeks/month then flower for two months. This method doesn't yield as much as standard grow ops, with the 18/6 for veg, however.

Check out Buds for Less by SeeMoreBuds. It's a pretty cool day by day cfl grow. I found it crazy because he induces flowering on the 16th day.

Wow man, thanks allot. One girls doing pretty good (though she does have a purple stem..?) But I do plan to get the digital timer tonight and let them recharge!

Like I've said, I gave my friend one of my Automarias and she is GORGEOUS. 1 month in and COVERED with pistils, I wanted to be a douche and take it back haha. But again hes using just plain MG soil, so Im afraid of the taste.

Thanks again, that was JUST the frigg'n information I was gonna research! Will heed the words of wisdom now and in future grows, thanks everyone for the support, sorry for letting you down

 

[jwb87]

Sup jwb,

Yeah, basically my ramble was about lack of watering, lol. It's always hard to judge in soil. That's why I think most do hydro. But, that's just my opinion.

I am actually using outdoor air, vented into my grow closet. over 300cfm outside air going into the room constantly. =D

So, you can say its an outdoor'sy style. But, indoors. Watering is the friggen hardest to judge. When it rains, I usually water, for however long it rains. Because the humidity is so low, the plants eat up the water. Right after it rains, they wont take any water at all. So, its just like its outside. It took me until the death of 3 plants to get this down. =( Sad, but true. Also, watching the stems will help dramatically. The colour of the stems and leaves show exactly what the plant is doing. Also, watch the growth, it should be slow, but steady, depending on what week your on.

I will be watching. Hope this helps, I love people that have the same level of passion as myself =D

Good luck as well!

Thanks man, I def. agree that my hinderance to watering is what is killing my girls sadly. But like Ive said, Im not a pro (yet)

I hope that this "saturation" I gave them yesterday will help to rejuvinate them over the next 24/48 hours.

Currently I have 1 lower "intake fan" and one lower "outtake" and an upper "outtake," (assuming heat rises) as I only had 3 transformers, just need to buy a 4th. I do wish I had some higher CFM fans, but hey its what I have for now, and it seems to be good, keeping temps below 80 and RH under 51% (MAX).

Thanks again for the support, as always any and all information/guidance is MORE than appreciated!!

Will get pics of my buddies Automaria II, 1 month in and shes soooo sexxxy!!

 

[jwb87]

Heres the progress of the Auto I gave my friend

Grown in plain MG soil, and simply left in a windowsill to do its thing.

 

[BioStub]

Hey bro.. Really nice job on the cab. If you flooded the cups with water until it ran out the bottom, you shouldn't need to water again for 3 days. I learned that lesson quick on my current grow. I am currently doing my first grow also.

Our grows are very similar.

Except I soaked my seeds 12 hours and planted the seeds directly into the soil in 18 oz solo cups. I used a mix of 1/3 seedling soil, 1/3 ffof and 1/3 perlite. I watered with ph 6.2 water with super thrive and h202 in very small ammounts. Like 2 drops each in a 18 oz solo cup of water. Within 36 hours the seeds pops and 1 day later was showing its true leaves. At 10 days I transplanted and found that they were becoming root bound already.

Its day 24 of veg for me and I just topped my 2 plants today. What I found is that. Leave them alone. I practically drown them and then don't water again until I see the side of the soil just starting to pull away from the side of the container and they are doing great. However if you didn't use vermiculite or perlite to hold water then you may have to water like 2 1/2 days. But really lift the cup, Feel the wieght with water and as time goes by. You will be able to tell when it dry.

One other thing. I am doing the OC+ which is time release ferts per one of DocBuds threads. I haven't used anything else. Honestly I think less is more for first time growers like ourselves. I was totally obsessing over them for a bit until I realized that I was probably gonna love them to death if I didn't stop. lol.

Oh and I would drop the light right down on them babies. I don't think T5s burn that hot and I think the plants would like it. just check the temps at the top of the plant. under 80 and your good. Mine did fine at 80+ at times. I did take some plastic wrap and some tooth-picks and covered my babies until they were a couple inches high. I took a spray bottle and misted inside the plastic and side of the cup just a little each day to keep the humidity up. They seemed to like that.

Good luck man.. Bio

 

[jwb87]

Hey bro.. Really nice job on the cab. If you flooded the cups with water until it ran out the bottom, you shouldn't need to water again for 3 days. I learned that lesson quick on my current grow. I am currently doing my first grow also.

Our grows are very similar.

Except I soaked my seeds 12 hours and planted the seeds directly into the soil in 18 oz solo cups. I used a mix of 1/3 seedling soil, 1/3 ffof and 1/3 perlite. I watered with ph 6.2 water with super thrive and h202 in very small ammounts. Like 2 drops each in a 18 oz solo cup of water. Within 36 hours the seeds pops and 1 day later was showing its true leaves. At 10 days I transplanted and found that they were becoming root bound already.

Its day 24 of veg for me and I just topped my 2 plants today. What I found is that. Leave them alone. I practically drown them and then don't water again until I see the side of the soil just starting to pull away from the side of the container and they are doing great. However if you didn't use vermiculite or perlite to hold water then you may have to water like 2 1/2 days. But really lift the cup, Feel the wieght with water and as time goes by. You will be able to tell when it dry.

One other thing. I am doing the OC+ which is time release ferts per one of DocBuds threads. I haven't used anything else. Honestly I think less is more for first time growers like ourselves. I was totally obsessing over them for a bit until I realized that I was probably gonna love them to death if I didn't stop. lol.

Oh and I would drop the light right down on them babies. I don't think T5s burn that hot and I think the plants would like it. just check the temps at the top of the plant. under 80 and your good. Mine did fine at 80+ at times. I did take some plastic wrap and some tooth-picks and covered my babies until they were a couple inches high. I took a spray bottle and misted inside the plastic and side of the cup just a little each day to keep the humidity up. They seemed to like that.

Good luck man.. Bio

Great information man, thanks allot for your personal experience!

I def. think my first week is what kind of hung me up (rockwool -> mulchy soil -> decent soil). Next grow I hope to do simply paper towel method -> soil.

I know its not an excuse for how I'm doing, but still I can NOT find ANY Fox Farms product in my state! I would looove to get my hands on some of this Ocean Forest stuff, again, if anyone lives in NH or ME & has any knowledge of a location that provides them, pleeeease let me know!

The only two times I've somewhat properly watered, I have not waited for the drips from the bottom, simply by mere weight, and they only seem to last 1 - 1 1/2 day before I rewater, but this time maybe I will try to "flush them." My biggest fear in that, is that I only have one (roughly 5/8") hole in the bottom of my cups, & by the time the water gets there, the plants will be over watered again.

Thanks again for your support and optimism bio, MUCH appreciated!


Now for my report.

Heres the one girl that I hope to make it. Her First leaves are having problems now, how much can one person screw up dammit!

The edges of her first leaves are starting to turn a lighter color, or yellowish, is this due to lack of nutrients already?? I havent been adding any at all yet, I was waiting for my second nodes to introduce them.

Also its been suggested to oxygenate my water before waterings. I do have a 12" aquastone that I can use on my water if that really makes a difference. Once you oxy the water, can you "restore it" or will it lose that effect. So far I'm only using 1/8+ of a gallon per watering, so I dont even use 1/2 gal for 4 plants.

This is a disclaimer for the faint of heart, what you are about to see may disturb those with light stomachs, so maybe you should turn away now!

Two of my other girls are roughly at this stage, I believe the roots are dying, they werent nice and white when I transplanted, more yellow/brown. But the plants are still trying to push out the next set of leaves, ideas??

As always thanks for any and all feedback, trying to get as much help to resurrect this project as possible!


EDIT***

Forgot to show you the height of my light fixture:

Its about 8" above the tops of the cups. Currently temp is 78/79. Was trying to keep the fixture at the same level as the computer fans to keep it cool(er).
But what I'm contemplating is if I put all 4 solo cups at the height of the fan, to strengthen the stems or just get them closer to the light, as T5's dont burn too hot.

 

[jwb87]

How about this

Only issue is the drip pan isnt flat inside, so I need to make a shim to level out all my cups. Temps already down to 76. RH is 46%

 

[RickyW]

I would looove to get my hands on some of this Ocean Forest stuff, again, if anyone lives in NH or ME & has any knowledge of a location that provides them, pleeeease let me know!

FoxFarm Soil & Fertilizer Company

Two of my other girls are roughly at this stage, I believe the roots are dying, they werent nice and white when I transplanted, more yellow/brown. But the plants are still trying to push out the next set of leaves, ideas??

Root rot is caused by lack of oxygen to the roots (over watering) aqua stone and H202 will help if its not too late. Brown roots = root rot.

T5HOs need to be no higher than 5" above plants. They are not that hot and a fan should help to keep the temp below 80F

 

[RickyW]

Maybe Mg deficiency Could be just lingering over watering symptoms.

You should def be giving them nutes, Id say 1/4 strength because theyre sick and small. Seeds contain enough nutes in them for the first couple weeks of growth, The problem is that although your plants look like seedlings they are beyond that self sustaining threshold. Do you have Super Thrive?

 

[jwb87]

I do not have superthrive. I just got a bottle of peroxide, if that could help?

I plan to do the aquastone for tomorrow evenings watering after I get home from work.

But that raises 2 more questions for me, how long do you oxygenate, and once you do, can you "restore" that water in a gallon jug, or does it lose that ability and resettle, no big deal @ $.50 a gal lol.

As far as that T5, I can drop it lower, temps only 76 mid day in the cab. Thx allot Ricky!

I think I found a shop that sells Fox Farms products, about 45 min away, if theres anything I should look into getting.

EDIT****

Just stuck my finger in (about halfway/mid knuckle) and pretty bone dry. I should be able to water tonight, should I oxygenate & mix up a batch of H202. Is that a TSP per gal as well??