A Base Treatment Regimen For Cancer

[Randoobula]

On that note...
I am advising everyone to cease the consumption of coconut oil & replace it with another such as grape seed or extra virgin olive oil.
Patients using coconut oil/butter are starting to show very negative symptoms due to the saturated fat.
This has been acknowledged by several doctors & other pro's I respect.
Your call.

Surely we aren't talking about simply using coconut oil as a carrier oil having negative health effects. I've done a great deal of research on this and coconut oil is made up of mostly medium chain triglycerides which are metabolized more readily than the fatty acids in most other oils.

The health benefits of coconut oil far outweigh any negative effects. And when we're talking about using it as a carrier oil, how could this minuscule amount be harmful?

My recommendation is that if your only intake of coconut oil is as a carrier oil, find ways to incorporate it more widely in your diet!!

 

[Radogast]

Surely we aren't talking about simply using coconut oil as a carrier oil having negative health effects. I've done a great deal of research on this and coconut oil is made up of mostly medium chain triglycerides which are metabolized more readily than the fatty acids in most other oils.

The health benefits of coconut oil far outweigh any negative effects. And when we're talking about using it as a carrier oil, how could this minuscule amount be harmful?

My recommendation is that if your only intake of coconut oil is as a carrier oil, find ways to incorporate it more widely in your diet!!

Randoobula - that is fine logic from an informed lay person perspective. Cajuncelt was speaking from an informed professional medical perspective.

I'd like to understand what he is saying, not just have a logical debate.

 

[CajunCelt]

"Cajun wasn't specific about the ill effects of the coconut oil, but keep in mind that he works with the most critical patients, those treating late-stage cancer. Unfortunately they get to cannabis as a last resort instead of a frontline response, and this usually means severely compromised immune systems and seriously deficient endocannabinoid systems. Saturated fats..... I don't have enough information on them at the moment, but I was led to believe that coconut oil is no longer a concern from the perspective of heart attack or stroke, so this confuses me as well."

Nope. Very wrong statement. I do work with the terminally ill, but I do NOT do hospice, nor do we treat those "too far gone". We have an excellent palitive/hospice program we use for them in Denver. They are treated by others there. All of our patients are using CO as a frontline treatment. Tim was the one that worked with the dying.

I gotta admit, I'm lost. You're doing way more labor than needed over assumptions.
His "pressure cooker" method is called refluxing & has many qualities you should learn or post. Pressure cooker retain water. That's why we use a reflux liner.

I don't understand the water either. Water is your enemy while making oil for many reasons Tim & I went into already. You never want to add water to a cannabis oil mix, no matter what you call it. As far as refluxing, you'll retain a slight bit more cannabinoids, but not enough to go through all that.

And testing, this was the 2nd type of test we did after potency trials.
SWET was indeed very high in cannabinoids, but same terpenes as a QWET & still had smaller cannabinoids than the quick wash.

As for retaining terpenes, they are so volitile that they begin to degrade in minutes after harvesting with no processing. After the process, you're left with little unless you use a subzero charter immediately after chopping. Period. No other way around it.

To retain terpenes, you need commercial equipment. If someone here knows better... You'll be rich as you'll be using a method that professional concentrate makers haven't got figured out after 14 hour days for several years.

On an up swing, don't forget the hundreds of other groovy things that cannabis buds give us. We're making cannabinoids & terpenoids be the stars they are.
But... The refluxing or slow, cold wash/soak will most likely give us a better percentage of those compounds than our usual QWET method.
So, USE IT! Lol.

Also, my Bros at Skunkpharms have some great articles & info on the slow wash & refluxing. Not much mention of olive oil so well need to fill in the blanks there. I would definitely read all their info then call for any specifics. They are the pioneers of processing the oil & the current equipment used for it.
Most all dab material & concentrated meds are made using their equipment or knock offs of it.
These guys are scientists & doctor-turned-researcher that have been at this since Jack Here & Rick were polishing their info.

 

[CajunCelt]

Surely we aren't talking about simply using coconut oil as a carrier oil having negative health effects. I've done a great deal of research on this and coconut oil is made up of mostly medium chain triglycerides which are metabolized more readily than the fatty acids in most other oils.

The health benefits of coconut oil far outweigh any negative effects. And when we're talking about using it as a carrier oil, how could this minuscule amount be harmful?

My recommendation is that if your only intake of coconut oil is as a carrier oil, find ways to incorporate it more widely in your diet!!

Your choice. Your statements have been retracted by most clinicians & licensed doctors that I know. The fat & diabs in coconut oil have shown a great deal of complications. And, not closed arteries or heart attacks.
We have patients using it orally, supps (anal & vaginal), then taking their customized CO. That's as much coconut oil as someone cooking with it. So, the amount ingested is significant. 1g of CO to 20g of coconut it's a significant#.

You follow your experience though. I'll sure you'll be fine.

Personally, I don't take other's potential problems lightly.
It sucks when you mess yourself up. It's numbing to do it to others when a lil info might've been all that was needed.

 

[Randoobula]

Randoobula - that is fine logic from an informed lay person perspective. Cajuncelt was speaking from an informed professional medical perspective.

I'd like to understand what he is saying, not just have a logical debate.

I can appreciate that Radogast. I'm not interested in debate, however all we really know about folks here is from their words, and his words are all I know of Cajuncelt. I just happen to disagree vehemently with his advice that others "cease the consumption of coconut oil". "CEASE CONSUMPTION"!

I cannot just sit here and let a statement stand that conflicts with piles of studies and the professional opinions of more than a just a couple of "medical professionals".

I too would like to understand, because no matter who it is, an opinion is just an opinion if not backed up with science and experience. And as he stated, people put stock in what is said by those they perceive as informed.

 

[Randoobula]

On that note...
I am advising everyone to cease the consumption of coconut oil & replace it with another such as grape seed or extra virgin olive oil.
Patients using coconut oil/butter are starting to show very negative symptoms due to the saturated fat.
This has been acknowledged by several doctors & other pro's I respect.
Your call.

Felt the need to tell you that I recognize that the tone of my earlier response to this may have come off as confrontational. I meant no disrespect. I simply disagree.

 

[CajunCelt]

Felt the need to tell you that I recognize that the tone of my earlier response to this may have come off as confrontational. I meant no disrespect. I simply disagree.

Do another round of current research for a reasonable amount of time. If you haven't changed your mind... I'll help 1 time by sending you to the most current info on coconut oil.
I doubt my licence numbers & a screenshot of my badges, would impresses you.

But, maybe my diplomas, letters of appreciation from patients worldwide, test results, letters from hospital & health organizations, the online videos & presentations with me/us, etc. Might be something to use as a "go-by" you can use & show us you did more than read a few articles of opinions & studies so we can be confident in our use of coconut oil & refute those who put out this latest info?
Hell, I'll have your back.

 

[Randoobula]

Do another round of current research for a reasonable amount of time. If you haven't changed your mind... I'll help 1 time by sending you to the most current info on coconut oil.
I doubt my licence numbers & a screenshot of my badges, would impresses you.

But, maybe my diplomas, letters of appreciation from patients worldwide, test results, letters from hospital & health organizations, the online videos & presentations with me/us, etc. Might be something to use as a "go-by" you can use & show us you did more than read a few articles of opinions & studies so we can be confident in our use of coconut oil & refute those who put out this latest info?
Hell, I'll have your back.

I want to thank you for that thoughtful response. It has been of great help to me by pointing out just how much more work I have to do on myself. The ego is cunning and powerful. I'll leave you to yours.
I'll just be over here wrestling mine away from the keypad.

I had to read the last paragraph three times. Still not understanding it, and considering the statement you responded to, I can only conclude it was a weak attempt at demonstrating your superior intelligence. You win. You're somethin' special. I'm just a carpenter.

Darn... slippery little bugger got away from me for a moment.

Have a good night.

BTW, I don't have any letters of appreciation. They express it to my face. You know, the ones that were sent home to die by the supposed "professionals"?

... got away again! I'm out!.

 

[CajunCelt]

I can appreciate that Radogast. I'm not interested in debate, however all we really know about folks here is from their words, and his words are all I know of Cajuncelt. I just happen to disagree vehemently with his advice that others "cease the consumption of coconut oil". "CEASE CONSUMPTION"!

I cannot just sit here and let a statement stand that conflicts with piles of studies and the professional opinions of more than a just a couple of "medical professionals".

I too would like to understand, because no matter who it is, an opinion is just an opinion if not backed up with science and experience. And as he stated, people put stock in what is said by those they perceive as informed.

I have old copies of "professional studies" that go into how & why cannabis makes you psychotic. Real scientific data.
Uh....they were wrong.
The med pros I keep bringing up are oncologists, pathologists & researchers dedicated to using cannabis as a primary treatment. They also study the synergies going on when we make CO. They've gone through many more semester hours of education than needed to get awarded nutrition, palliative, cannabis as an entire medical subject, etc.
I haven't had to explain my resumè here in awhile, so I guess you missed that I was a lecturer through PACT to quite a few universities, med research facilities, conference centers to medical associations. Im also a licensed homeopathic doctor specialising in detoxification & nutrition among others. Still some pics & video floating around here with all this if get a minute.

So, that's where my "opinions" come from.

You?
Can we know your experience as I doubt you've the pics/videos posted around here yet?
I bet it's a long read, but I'm ready & looking forward to it. We can publicly discuss the egfr receptors as part of our ECS & they're never considered in treatment.

 

[Radogast]

I miss having the access I had to published research when I worked for a research university. As an ordinary citizen, lots of the good stuff is behind 'pay a substantial annual fee for access to the full text' firewalls - rightfully so, but it still shuts me out from a lot of the detailed research - and the flaws they sometimes revealwhen explaining their assumptions and methodology.

 

[CajunCelt]

I want to thank you for that thoughtful response. It has been of great help to me by pointing out just how much more work I have to do on myself. The ego is cunning and powerful. I'll leave you to yours.
I'll just be over here wrestling mine away from the keypad.

I had to read the last paragraph three times. Still not understanding it, and considering the statement you responded to, I can only conclude it was a weak attempt at demonstrating your superior intelligence. You win. You're somethin' special. I'm just a carpenter.

BTW, I don't have any letters of appreciation. They express it to my face. You know, the ones that were sent home to die by the supposed "professionals"?
.

Stating that my opinion is just that unless backed up by science & you stated you didn't know me?
Sorry, tried to get ya caught up on where my mere opinions come from.
You come off to me like you resent "professionals" a little. Thought I'd let you know it's not a few medical degreed cubical jockies Im referring to. They have most ppl 's respect at least as they've dedicated their lives to this.
Again, sorry your butt-hurt about my response. But, I respect these organizations very much.
Oh, the letters. Well I guess it was easier from Australia, England, Spain & tons of Canadians to send a heartfelt email or letter after waiting at least a year to watch progress instead of flying over to say thank you to me.
The universities & med centers could've make me walk to everyone's office to get an ego-boosting thanks instead of a letter.
Couyon, you got me on brains. That's how you avoided the ego-boosting thankfulness I stepped in.
Great job! Build on couyon, build on.
I was in the construction-related field myself before cancer.

 

[Randoobula]

I have old copies of "professional studies" that go into how & why cannabis makes you psychotic. Real scientific data.
Uh....they were wrong.
The med pros I keep bringing up are oncologists, pathologists & researchers dedicated to using cannabis as a primary treatment. They also study the synergies going on when we make CO. They've gone through many more semester hours of education than needed to get awarded nutrition, palliative, cannabis as an entire medical subject, etc.
I haven't had to explain my resumè here in awhile, so I guess you missed that I was a lecturer through PACT to quite a few universities, med research facilities, conference centers to medical associations. Im also a licensed homeopathic doctor specialising in detoxification & nutrition among others. Still some pics & video floating around here with all this if get a minute.

So, that's where my "opinions" come from.

You?
Can we know your experience as I doubt you've the pics/videos posted around here yet?
I bet it's a long read, but I'm ready & looking forward to it. We can publicly discuss the egfr receptors as part of our ECS & they're never considered in treatment.

LOL!!! "Long read"!! Yes, I'm verbose.

To be honest, even had I known your background, I'd have disagreed with your advice to cease consumption of coconut oil.

You make my point quite nicely. The studies were wrong and I highly doubt cannabis has ever been the cause of a black musicians raping white women!!

If I thought you were actually interested, I'd share what informs my opinions. But I'm a great between the lines reader!

 

[CajunCelt]

I'm seriously interested. I consider any/every shred of info from any source. Joe Blow or Dr. Wonderful. I don't care. If it saves my life & others I won't hesitate to get it going.

It's the passive-aggressive disrespectful or flat out ignorance w/arrogance that I've never gotten used to. I'm working on it.
Spent enough time on this one my friend. Gonna bail on the subject with you.

Good luck & bon chancè

 

[CajunCelt]

I miss having the access I had to published research when I worked for a research university. As an ordinary citizen, lots of the good stuff is behind 'pay a substantial annual fee for access to the full text' firewalls - rightfully so, but it still shuts me out from a lot of the detailed research - and the flaws they sometimes revealwhen explaining their assumptions and methodology.

We have something like that at the clinic. I frankly get one of the young techies to get me to where I want to go.

Hey my campfire pack leader said that one.
(Too soon?).

 

[Randoobula]

I'm seriously interested. I consider any/every shred of info from any source. Joe Blow or Dr. Wonderful. I don't care. If it saves my life & others I won't hesitate to get it going.

It's the passive-aggressive disrespectful or flat out ignorance w/arrogance that I've never gotten used to. I'm working on it.

I didn't disrespect you until you pissed on my attempt to apologize if I came off confrontational.

I was just shocked at your statement. Had you stated ANYTHING to support that statement, I'd have kept my mouth shut, researched it, and THEN I'd have engaged you on the science or theory or whatever the hell it is.

We all have a perspective. I didn't know yours... you didn't/don't know mine. But BOTH our egos flared their ugly heads.

We should step back from this. I don't want to believe you deserve me taking the gloves off and I KNOW I don't deserve your condescension.

I do appreciate that you are one of the good guys with regard to your modality of choice, and will read your future offerings with interest. But I am not a sheep. I will speak my mind... not to be heard but to protect people less educated and informed than myself.

Have a good night.

 

[Dave Groomer]

Do another round of current research for a reasonable amount of time. If you haven't changed your mind... I'll help 1 time by sending you to the most current info on coconut oil.
I doubt my licence numbers & a screenshot of my badges, would impresses you.

But, maybe my diplomas, letters of appreciation from patients worldwide, test results, letters from hospital & health organizations, the online videos & presentations with me/us, etc. Might be something to use as a "go-by" you can use & show us you did more than read a few articles of opinions & studies so we can be confident in our use of coconut oil & refute those who put out this latest info?
Hell, I'll have your back.

I don't NEED to see anything. I would however LOVE to see some of the videos!!!

 

[SweetSue]

"Cajun wasn't specific about the ill effects of the coconut oil, but keep in mind that he works with the most critical patients, those treating late-stage cancer. Unfortunately they get to cannabis as a last resort instead of a frontline response, and this usually means severely compromised immune systems and seriously deficient endocannabinoid systems. Saturated fats..... I don't have enough information on them at the moment, but I was led to believe that coconut oil is no longer a concern from the perspective of heart attack or stroke, so this confuses me as well."

Nope. Very wrong statement. I do work with the terminally ill, but I do NOT do hospice, nor do we treat those "too far gone". We have an excellent palitive/hospice program we use for them in Denver. They are treated by others there. All of our patients are using CO as a frontline treatment. Tim was the one that worked with the dying.

I gotta admit, I'm lost. You're doing way more labor than needed over assumptions.
His "pressure cooker" method is called refluxing & has many qualities you should learn or post. Pressure cooker retain water. That's why we use a reflux liner.

I don't understand the water either. Water is your enemy while making oil for many reasons Tim & I went into already. You never want to add water to a cannabis oil mix, no matter what you call it. As far as refluxing, you'll retain a slight bit more cannabinoids, but not enough to go through all that.

And testing, this was the 2nd type of test we did after potency trials.
SWET was indeed very high in cannabinoids, but same terpenes as a QWET & still had smaller cannabinoids than the quick wash.

As for retaining terpenes, they are so volitile that they begin to degrade in minutes after harvesting with no processing. After the process, you're left with little unless you use a subzero charter immediately after chopping. Period. No other way around it.

To retain terpenes, you need commercial equipment. If someone here knows better... You'll be rich as you'll be using a method that professional concentrate makers haven't got figured out after 14 hour days for several years.

On an up swing, don't forget the hundreds of other groovy things that cannabis buds give us. We're making cannabinoids & terpenoids be the stars they are.
But... The refluxing or slow, cold wash/soak will most likely give us a better percentage of those compounds than our usual QWET method.
So, USE IT! Lol.

Also, my Bros at Skunkpharms have some great articles & info on the slow wash & refluxing. Not much mention of olive oil so well need to fill in the blanks there. I would definitely read all their info then call for any specifics. They are the pioneers of processing the oil & the current equipment used for it.
Most all dab material & concentrated meds are made using their equipment or knock offs of it.
These guys are scientists & doctor-turned-researcher that have been at this since Jack Here & Rick were polishing their info.

Someday I'll learn to stop making any assumptions about you at all mon ami.

I stand corrected. You have shared with me before that you don't do hospice care. My oversight, and my overstep. I appreciate you setting me right so quickly.

I accept what you say about the volitality of terpenes, but I know from my own experience and the experience of members that have made this oil that there's something special going on here that we've attributed to the retention of the terpenes, as we can't think of any other reasonable explaination. That won't be cleared up until we get some tested.

I'll look more closely into refluxing, study the offerings at Skunk Pharm, and see what I can get written up. Hopefully I'll get a couple guys on the thread to get into it with me. The plate's awlfully full at the moment.

I'm interested in an olive oil infusion. Something simple enough to be able to pull off in your kitchen, if that's the only option you have staring you in the face, but potent enough to be useful for serious treatment. Something that doesn't require me to ravage the family budget for a solvent I can't purchase in my hometown anyway.

 

[SweetSue]

I don't NEED to see anything. I would however LOVE to see some of the videos!!!

I second that.

 

[Randoobula]

I second that.

I'll third that... seeing the videos that is. However I DO need to see something.

What in the world is wrong with questioning everything we hear? That's how we learn and grow! That's what makes us truth seekers rather than sheep.

Two comments re your post before this one...

- You began that comment by mentioning that Cajun wasn't specific about the complications with consuming coconut oil, yet in his lengthy response he still neglected to provide those details. I don't get it. My purpose is NOT personal. I deeply regret ever engaging on it and how I handled it. I simply have an inquiring mind and want to know. I looked into it and found only the same old stale arguments. Many of them made by well meaning professionals btw.

- I love olive oil. At least I think I do. I switched away from it because the grocery stores here only carry the brands of EVOO on the list of those that have failed testing and are not truly what they claim to be.

For those unaware, there has been a scam going on for many years. Many of the mills that process the oil are doing so outside the parameters of what constitutes "extra virgin". Some blend their olive oil with other vegetable oils and some process the olives well after 24 hours from harvest, meaning the acidity levels of the processed oil is unacceptably high.

As we know, acidity is the last thing a cancer patient needs, or any of us for that matter. That said, taken is relatively small amounts as is the case with coconut oil used as a carrier, how much harm can come from it? Just thought I'd share that in the event anyone cares and didn't know about it. A great deal if info can be found by simply googling "olive oil scam".

Thanks for all that you do Sue. You are appreciated! After our exchange I read the first dozen pages of this thread for the first time, and I also greatly appreciate Cajuns giving for the benefit of others. That's what it's all about after all.

 

[SweetSue]

I'll third that... seeing the videos that is. However I DO need to see something.

What in the world is wrong with questioning everything we hear? That's how we learn and grow! That's what makes us truth seekers rather than sheep.

- I love olive oil. At least I think I do. I switched away from it because the grocery stores here only carry the brands of EVOO on the list of those that have failed testing and are not truly what they claim to be.

For those unaware, there has been a scam going on for many years. Many of the mills that process the oil are doing so outside the parameters of what constitutes "extra virgin". Some blend their olive oil with other vegetable oils and some process the olives well after 24 hours from harvest, meaning the acidity levels of the processed oil is unacceptably high.

As we know, acidity is the last thing a cancer patient needs, or any of us for that matter. That said, taken is relatively small amounts as is the case with coconut oil used as a carrier, how much harm can come from it? Just thought I'd share that in the event anyone cares and didn't know about it. A great deal if info can be found by simply googling "olive oil scam".

There's so much conflicting information out there we simply must question everything. I get slapped for that all the time, and I rarely give a damn. I have our study hall to hash these things out without fear of backlash.

I was aware of the scam, and alert members to this all the time. I was not aware, though, of the acidity concern, so thank you for pointing that out. It's through sharing and a reasonable amount of transparency and vulnerability that we advance the base of knowledge.