A Base Treatment Regimen For Cancer

[SweetSue]

thank you so much sweetsue for your kind words and information

yea i will tell her and make her laugh more often and i make sure she can see her niece more often cause i know this gives her a good feeling too...

if she sees she is allways smiling

im so glad i found you guys i dont feel let alone anymore

This is one of our most important functions here Goryo. You're never alone.

 

[CajunCelt]

I'd rather be illegally alive than legally dead.

 

[SweetSue]

Actually, the 5:1 ratio is what I suggested to Chewey.
Not claiming glory as it is a heart breaking story.
I say this because we have very specific ratios various issues.
The 20:1 ratio is usually the recommended starting dose.

The ratios of CCO to carrier oil needed to stay consistent. Chewey and I were trying to find a way to balance the lecithin for capsule suppositories he was hoping to use for his friend, to take advantage of the bio bomb recipe. That was what I was explaining there. The original recipe had twice the lecithin ratio, thinning out the cannabinoid dose per capsule. We were hoping this mix would do the job.

He's delivered some to another friend, so we may get some feedback on how effective this was in the end.

 

[SweetSue]

Goryo, good morning.

Here's your link. I'll be back on line in about 5-6 hours (my body thinks 5 hours sleep is sufficient) to answer any questions you may have.

SweetSue's Cannabis Oil Study Hall

 

[Goryo]

Hey Sweetsue...

Thank you so much for your effort...

I will try this once i get decent stuff and i'll give you a feedback for sure...

Jar will bless you and your plants

 

[animalrescuer]

Hi, first of all thank you so much for taking so much time to help others. second, i hope i am posting correctly and can find your response. I have been working my way throughout the posts and find I am more confused than ever. I am making every attempt to put together a plan for myself but wanted to see if you would mind if i asked for your opinion. I have stage 4 breast cancer met to the liver. ER+/HER2 negative. i initially was diagnosed with DCIS 18 years ago had it removed and did not require further treatment. it was spreading for 10 years with no treatment and no knowledge and found its way to my liver. i had 6 rounds of chemo about 7 years ago, went on Tamoxifen and was in remission but the lesions in the liver returned, more than likely they were never really gone. each medicine has works for about 6 months keeping the lesions stable then a new medicine is required. had surgery this past september to remove the liver tumor but there are other smaller lesions scattered throughout the liver, nothing in the breast. running out of medicine so want to take matters into my own hands, get my immune system strong and try alternatives. someone suggested rick simpson oil and tincture drops. someone else said Rick Simpson oil is dirty and not to use it. someone else said use Indica and Sativa. everyone i speak with has a different opinion. I have tried to find a doctor or a clinic to advise with no luck ( LA/West Hollywood area). Any advice you can give me would be greatly appreciated. i was told to put the drops on my food but i read your comments about bioavailability. suppositories freak me out. since my liver is involved (and i read your post about more difficult to treat liver lesions) I want to be certain I am taking the correct product, dosage and using the most effective delivery method. would prefer not to be high as i have to function throughout the day. you also mentioned inflammation and potential pain when the liver is involved, this is important to know so please confirm. One person said you need THC another said I do not. I am tired of asking for help and getting conflicting information, i was so impressed with your knowledge I am hoping you can advise me. my gall bladder was removed during liver surgery you mentioned gall bladder in a post too. lastly, i want to use CBD as a preventative for my golden retriever, any advice on how to administer to dogs to ward off the possibility of cancer? Many thanks.

 

[Goryo]

Dear sweetsue...

Since apigenin is a flavonid i was wondering if other flavonids will fit in for competitive inhibition.

there is quercetin and luteolin those flavonids are quite the same they also have killing cancer potenial and also fit in for alkaline diet too.
they are easy to get and lil cheaper then apigenin...

does quercetin and luteolin do the trick?

i hope you can understand what i talking about
sorry for bad english

thanks in advance

btw here is a link for flavonids for those in need in germany/europe
www.gerdelmann-online.de/

 

[SweetSue]

Dear sweetsue...

Since apigenin is a flavonid i was wondering if other flavonids will fit in for competitive inhibition.

there is quercetin and luteolin those flavonids are quite the same they also have killing cancer potenial and also fit in for alkaline diet too.
they are easy to get and lil cheaper then apigenin...

does quercetin and luteolin do the trick?

i hope you can understand what i talking about
sorry for bad english

thanks in advance

btw here is a link for flavonids for those in need in germany/europe
www.gerdelmann-online.de/

Goryo, your English is fine.

Let me look into this and get back to you. The reason we choose apigenin and amentoflavone is that they're metabolized by the same enzymes that metabolize THC. Our intent is to keep those particular enzymes busy. I don't know if the ones you listed would fill that requirement.

 

[SweetSue]

Goryo, the short answer is no. Those two choices will not engage the very enzymes we're hoping to keep occupied so our cannabinoids can slip by. Stick with the amentoflavone and apigenin.

 

[SweetSue]

Hi, first of all thank you so much for taking so much time to help others. second, i hope i am posting correctly and can find your response. I have been working my way throughout the posts and find I am more confused than ever. I am making every attempt to put together a plan for myself but wanted to see if you would mind if i asked for your opinion. I have stage 4 breast cancer met to the liver. ER+/HER2 negative. i initially was diagnosed with DCIS 18 years ago had it removed and did not require further treatment. it was spreading for 10 years with no treatment and no knowledge and found its way to my liver. i had 6 rounds of chemo about 7 years ago, went on Tamoxifen and was in remission but the lesions in the liver returned, more than likely they were never really gone. each medicine has works for about 6 months keeping the lesions stable then a new medicine is required. had surgery this past september to remove the liver tumor but there are other smaller lesions scattered throughout the liver, nothing in the breast. running out of medicine so want to take matters into my own hands, get my immune system strong and try alternatives. someone suggested rick simpson oil and tincture drops. someone else said Rick Simpson oil is dirty and not to use it. someone else said use Indica and Sativa. everyone i speak with has a different opinion. I have tried to find a doctor or a clinic to advise with no luck ( LA/West Hollywood area). Any advice you can give me would be greatly appreciated. i was told to put the drops on my food but i read your comments about bioavailability. suppositories freak me out. since my liver is involved (and i read your post about more difficult to treat liver lesions) I want to be certain I am taking the correct product, dosage and using the most effective delivery method. would prefer not to be high as i have to function throughout the day. you also mentioned inflammation and potential pain when the liver is involved, this is important to know so please confirm. One person said you need THC another said I do not. I am tired of asking for help and getting conflicting information, i was so impressed with your knowledge I am hoping you can advise me. my gall bladder was removed during liver surgery you mentioned gall bladder in a post too. lastly, i want to use CBD as a preventative for my golden retriever, any advice on how to administer to dogs to ward off the possibility of cancer? Many thanks.

Hello animalrescurer. Nice to meet you and sorry it has to be under these conditions, but you've found your way to some sanity, so take a deep breath and relax. It's certainly frustrating how much conflicting information you can come across and this is your life we're talking about, so let's see if we can get it right and offer you some peace of mind.

Let's start with the suppositories, shall we? I suggest you find a way to get over the angst about suppositories. You have liver cancer and that's your best delivery method and pathway. Properly inserted, you won't be dealing with euphoria on the job, or anywhere, for that matter. Tacking is also part of the protocol, yet another delivery method that, done correctly, gets cannabinoids into the system without euphoria. So your concerns about euphoria can be put to rest.

You want THC at around 20% or higher. It's the THC that's the major hitter here, although we want as many players in the game as we can, so we're sure to get the ratios correct, most importantly for our purposes, THC:CBD. We recommend a sativa-dominant strain for daytime meds, to keep the brain and body alert, and as pure an indica as you can find for evening/night doses, to encourage sleep. So you're looking at making or acquiring two different oil mixes. The thread on making CCO has a wealth of information on this subject on the first few pages. Here's the link to that thread.

How To Make Concentrated Cannabis Oil

Purchasing oil on line is problematic on many levels, as far as most of us are concerned. Our greatest concern is that you have no idea what's really in there, unless you trust the producer. Unfortunately, there are many unscrupulous individuals and companies out there. It's recommended to make your own oil. We have a thread dedicated to one approach (the link above) and my study hall explores other methods of extracting the oil, giving you options to choose from. When you make your own you control the content and quality, and you use a strain that was chosen for your needs.

This is not to say purchasing oil is frowned upon, just that we prefer to be in control. Obviously, where you live there are dispensaries that sell oil with complete testing information, a real bonus when you're dosing.

Can you grow? Growing adds another layer of personal control to your protocol. When you grow the plant you connect to the plant itself, which can offer mental health benefits you weren't expecting when your thought was simply to medicate. Growing these plants is almost as therapeutic as the meds they offer at harvest. There's something empowering about growing the medicine that's going to heal you from this crazy disease. You effect the plant, the plant touches you, your immune system responds to the positive energy created. We're very complex machines capable of almost miraculous biological response, so nothing is impossible here.

I can't speak to your concern about pain caused by vasodilation when using coco butter or coconut oil. Cajun would have to advise you there, but he was clear about that being painful. Obviously nothing he couldn't handle, since he kept up with the protocol and is now cancer-free, but I accept that he has a warrior mentality that others might not embrace. I'd think you'd be capable of finding a way to learn to override the discomfort with thoughts of health and wholeness. Your brain's able to instruct your body to create pain killers on demand. We can find a way to deal with it, and it may not be a concern at all. Everybody reacts in their own individual way with cannabis. It possible we could find a CBD:THC ratio that would offset this for you. There are many possibilities.

As for the puppy, we have an oiler's lounge area where members gather for socializing. Many of them have pets that get treatments with CCO. That'd be the best place to bring up that conversation. Here's a link to the current page. No need to read through that thread. Just jump into real time and ask. They're a happy, helpful lot.

You should have picked up that we're serious about this and we try really hard to get past the misinformation and on to the business of helping you find an effective protocol. I expect you to ask any and all questions until you're satisfied that the answers were thorough and appropriate to your questions.

Cannabis Oil Users Cafe & Lounge

 

[CajunCelt]

Sue knocked this out pretty well for you & I'd like to add a few things.
You've been a survivor for a long time. That's a blessing for sure. But just know that the chemo only kills/contains the weak secondary cancer cells leaving the root cancer to grow stronger. That's why the recurrence & the chemo not working& needing to be changed.
What bothers you more? Chemo, toxins, poison, hospital, infusion room, IV, port, side effects, needles, meds to"help"....

Or an all natural suppository 2" up your rectum causing very welcomed effects?

Easy choice for me.

For dogs:
I suggest making a bone broth mix with the cannabis. There are many reasons for this that my phone won't let me hang out & type. But, try looking up "canine cannabis bone broth"?
We're not going to add anything to mess with your gall bladder. No worries.
I don't want to give you false hope. The liver absolutely sucks to treat. But, I know many that didn't beat cancer. They came to an agreement with it though& are still doing great.

 

[animalrescuer]

I'd rather be illegally alive than legally dead.

Hi Cajuncelt, i posted this somewhere on this forum but intended to post it directly to you. I am still learning. I read through most of your recent posts which are so helpful and generous of you but i am left with so many questions and so much confusion. I am pasting the original post here and am hoping you might be able to help. Many thanks, Jan
Hi, first of all thank you so much for taking so much time to help others. second, i hope i am posting correctly and can find your response. I have been working my way throughout the posts and find I am more confused than ever. I am making every attempt to put together a plan for myself but wanted to see if you would mind if i asked for your opinion. I have stage 4 breast cancer met to the liver. ER+/HER2 negative. i initially was diagnosed with DCIS 18 years ago had it removed and did not require further treatment. it was spreading for 10 years with no treatment and no knowledge and found its way to my liver. i had 6 rounds of chemo about 7 years ago, went on Tamoxifen and was in remission but the lesions in the liver returned, more than likely they were never really gone. each medicine has works for about 6 months keeping the lesions stable then a new medicine is required. had surgery this past september to remove the liver tumor but there are other smaller lesions scattered throughout the liver, nothing in the breast. running out of medicine so want to take matters into my own hands, get my immune system strong and try alternatives. someone suggested rick simpson oil and tincture drops. someone else said Rick Simpson oil is dirty and not to use it. someone else said use Indica and Sativa. everyone i speak with has a different opinion. I have tried to find a doctor or a clinic to advise with no luck ( LA/West Hollywood area). Any advice you can give me would be greatly appreciated. i was told to put the drops on my food but i read your comments about bioavailability. suppositories freak me out. since my liver is involved (and i read your post about more difficult to treat liver lesions) I want to be certain I am taking the correct product, dosage and using the most effective delivery method. would prefer not to be high as i have to function throughout the day. you also mentioned inflammation and potential pain when the liver is involved, this is important to know so please confirm. One person said you need THC another said I do not. I am tired of asking for help and getting conflicting information, i was so impressed with your knowledge I am hoping you can advise me. my gall bladder was removed during liver surgery you mentioned gall bladder in a post too. lastly, i want to use CBD as a preventative for my golden retriever, any advice on how to administer to dogs to ward off the possibility of cancer? Many thanks.

 

[animalrescuer]

i found your response above when i reposted below so please disregard. if i could figure out how to delete i would. now i need to find Sue's response. thank you.

 

[CajunCelt]

Ask any questions so you can be absolutely clear on your treatment decisions.
My advice to anyone is to know as much as the "why" you are doing it.
The fundamentals:
You'll be using a form of RSO we just call concentrated cannabis oil.
You'll be using 3 delivery methods:
-oral, submucosal & suppositories.
You need a little CBD & a lot of THC. The CBD won't directly affect a specific cannabinoid receptor (it's called the CB1 receptor. But, the CBD will help facilitate THC.

Sativa THC/CBD mix for daytime.
Pure indica for a restful night.

Use coconut oil which is a medium chain fatty acid in lieu of flaxseed or other oils.
This is so the meds get more thoroughly to your liver. Stay clear of flaxseed oil specifically as there are concerns it contributes to ER+ cancers.

Go to the 2 colored links in Sue's post for more.

It's a fair bit of reading for you, but don't be put off. Sue will help you get to the critical info easier.

It's hit or miss when I can be on here, but there are members to get ya lined out that will jump in.

 

[animalrescuer]

Thank you SweetSue and Cajuncelt I found a dr for the card and am researching dispensaries which will be made easier with your advice and input. I appreciate your help. I am sure i will have additional questions but you have given me a start. Many thanks. Have a wonderful holiday weekend.

 

[SweetSue]

Thank you SweetSue and Cajuncelt I found a dr for the card and am researching dispensaries which will be made easier with your advice and input. I appreciate your help. I am sure i will have additional questions but you have given me a start. Many thanks. Have a wonderful holiday weekend.

You're more than welcome animalrescurer. You have a wonderful weekend as well. If you come across any questions during that time please don't hesitate to ask. I practically live on these digital streets.

 

[higgsino]

Hello SweetSue,

thank you for all your comments and answers to my questions. I couldn't respond earlier.

I have finally managed to finish reading this entire thread and some other ones as well, a lot of info. Meanwhile I have increased my dose to 500 mg via suppositories and I also tack before each dose. Still need to improve my tacking technique, though, because the oil doesn't always stay where it's supposed to. I added gingko, waiting for apigenin to arrive, drinking some chamomile tea, some of the demethylating agents added as well.

I don't get as much dizzy as when I was simply swallowing my doses. Now I tend to get more tired (perhaps it's the Indica doing something) and I have had short-term problems on some days. Not sure what that means. Is it the same problem as with dizziness, i.e. liver processing too much of THC?

" ... For amentoflavone look for Ginko Biloba tablets. I'd assume a single tablet would be sufficient. I can't find any thing in my notes from Cajun's posts concerning a dose level. ..."

No sure either, my capsules contain 120 mg of gingko extract, naturally don't know how much amentoflavone is in them. The only info about recommended dosage I can find in this thread is 200 mg amentoflavone (gingko), not sure whether it's 200mg of amentoflavone or 200mg of gingko extract.

Do we know how long these competitive inhibitors keep blocking the liver? I take two medications from my oncologist, and they are processed by the same liver enzymes, namely CYP 3A4 and CYP 2C8, as apigenin and amentoflavone. These pills should be taken on an empty stomach whereas CCO after meals. I'm trying to put together a reasonable daily schedule so that CCO can be combined with those medications, and I don't want to inhibit those drugs.

" ... keep a respectable distance between your doses and caffeine ... "

The advice up in this thread was at least 20 minutes between the 2.

" ... The adaptation, using a long-chained fatty acid as a carrier oil, will be absorbed into the lymphatic system and skip the first pass ride through the liver. That's one of the reasons it avoids euphoria. The carrier oil and the lecithin act to get the mix swiftly into the system and across the blood/brain barrier. ..."

Is this true for any way of administration, oral, anal, tacking, ...? Does this mean that even when the biobomb is swallowed it doesn't induce euphoria or when it does it does so to a lesser degree compared to simply swallowing the CCO? Do I get that right or not?

You all say to eat some fat (LCFA) about 30 minutes prior to dising. Given that these fats are in biobomb, why not to simply eat some fat with my oral CCO doses? Wouldn't that act like a (weaker form) of biobomb (no lecithin)?

Regarding biobomb: I'm waiting for some supplies to arrive, then will give it a try. I can see you tried to work out a recipe for biobomb suppositories using a cocoa butter rather than filling capsules. Has that been finalized? Also what kind of capsules should one use for anal administration? The same as for oral (cellulose capsules)? I've read somewhere that they don't disintegrate well in the colon. That's why I'm asking about those cocoa-butter-based suppositories.

Sue I realize that '" ... that even the experts don't know yet if we're spitting in the wind here. Most of what we postulate is unproven from a lab perspective ...". and so there may not be good answers to some of my questions. But I ask them nevertheless, perhaps they'll help others as well.

I need to dig into your study hall.

Thanks again, Sue. Enjoy

 

[fookinel]

Do we know how long these competitive inhibitors keep blocking the liver? I take two medications from my oncologist, and they are processed by the same liver enzymes, namely CYP 3A4 and CYP 2C8, as apigenin and amentoflavone. These pills should be taken on an empty stomach whereas CCO after meals. I'm trying to put together a reasonable daily schedule so that CCO can be combined with those medications, and I don't want to inhibit those drugs.

I'd be very careful about drug interactions. I'd like the person I'm helping to be taking apigenin, however, it may interact with their medication so we don't really know what to do. I've been considering getting apigenin and getting them to take it before a dose of CCO (mixed with olive oil and lecithin as in a bio bomb) in the middle of the day as long as possible from their other medication, however, it's still just a thought for now.

The first problem you have is determining exactly how apigenin and amentoflavone interact with the cytochrome enzymes. This is a post from someone trying to find out whether amentoflavone is an enzyme inhibitor or inducer. If it's an inhibitor then it could lead to an increase in the levels of your medications and obviously if it's an inducer then it would lead to a decrease in the levels of your medications, either of these scenarios could be very bad for you.

" ... The adaptation, using a long-chained fatty acid as a carrier oil, will be absorbed into the lymphatic system and skip the first pass ride through the liver. That's one of the reasons it avoids euphoria. The carrier oil and the lecithin act to get the mix swiftly into the system and across the blood/brain barrier. ..."

Is this true for any way of administration, oral, anal, tacking, ...? Does this mean that even when the biobomb is swallowed it doesn't induce euphoria or when it does it does so to a lesser degree compared to simply swallowing the CCO? Do I get that right or not?

You all say to eat some fat (LCFA) about 30 minutes prior to dising. Given that these fats are in biobomb, why not to simply eat some fat with my oral CCO doses? Wouldn't that act like a (weaker form) of biobomb (no lecithin)?

First, it would be a good idea to go through this information on how fats and oils are digested. I can't find the videos which I think are in Sue's study hall, but someone also posted some videos about how drugs are metabolised and first-pass metabolism.

The idea behind using long-chain triglycerides (long-chain fatty acids combined with glycerol) is that they are broken down in to long-chain fatty acids and monoglycerides which are then reassembled in to chylomicrons after absorption and transported to/through the lymphatic system. This bypasses the liver and the subsequent first-pass metabolism associated with it. Now, whether the cannabinoids are taken with the carrier oil in to the lymphatic system or not I don't know, I haven't seen any studies regarding this, but the idea is that this helps the cannabinoids enter your system.

The idea behind taking a dose after eating fats is to occupy the liver with the fats, again, helping the cannabinoids enter your system. Competitive inhibition with apigenin and amentoflavone (assuming they are both enzyme inhibitors) will also help keep the liver busy.

Ingesting the CCO directly at the same time as (or shortly after) taking fats/oils is unlikely to have the same effect, however, how much of a beneficial effect it has over CCO on its own I don't know. At the very least I would combine the CCO with a carrier oil (such as olive oil, grape seed oil, hemp seed oil, or flaxseed oil) to hopefully help with the absorption of the cannabinoids.

All of this is in relation to improving the quantity of cannabinoids that enter the blood stream (bioavailability) via ingestion. Tacking and suppositories are alternative routes of administration which also try to improve the bioavailability. I don't really know much about tacking or suppositories so I don't really know much about how to improve the absorption via these methods.

Once the cannabinoids have entered the blood stream then they will likely be stored in fat tissue or metabolised by the liver over time. This is where competitive inhibition is important in keeping the cannabinoids circulating through your system and hopefully connecting with cancer cells.

Finally, I don't read in to psychological effects as a measure of therapeutic effects. The more I try to understand whether there's a connection between the two the less confidence I have that there is.

Hopefully that helps?! I'm not sure if it's clear enough...

 

[SweetSue]

Amazing response fookinel. Thanks. Every time through this I learn more and it becomes more deeply imprinted, so I really appreciate the thoroughness of your post.

Let me reiterate:

There is no correlation between the level of euphoria and the effectiveness of your cannabinoid therapy. Psychoactivity means your liver metabolized the THC. That's all it means.

 

[PsyCro]

" ... The adaptation, using a long-chained fatty acid as a carrier oil, will be absorbed into the lymphatic system and skip the first pass ride through the liver. That's one of the reasons it avoids euphoria. The carrier oil and the lecithin act to get the mix swiftly into the system and across the blood/brain barrier. ..."

I've mentioned this before but it seems nobody has taken note as i've seen this many times over, sooo.. cannabinoids have no problem whatsoever with the blood brain barrier! Once they're in the blood you're good to go, getting them there IS a topic for discussion, but how you get them there has NO effect on blood brain barrier permeability.

Blood-Brain Barrier and Pharmacokinetics | Cannabis.info

"What is unique about this barrier is that it does allow cannabinoids to penetrate and bind with the body's trans-membrane cannabinoid receptors, such as CB1 and CB2, mimicking the action of the neurotransmitter anandamide, an endocannabinoid produced within our bodies. Within about ten seconds of taking a toke, the plant's drugs cross the double-cell barrier and release a flood of wonderful feelings – which is why Cannabis has been the most widely-used illicit drug in human history and predates pharmacology.

While it may seem shocking that cannabinoids can penetrate a barrier that other substances cannot, this can explain the plant's efficacy at being an anti-inflammatory, analgesic and even a neuroprotective antioxidant."