Best and more cost effective grow lights/ source

[hydromaniac]

So I wanted to see what you opinions & suggestions are on choosing the best indoor grow lights for best results while cheapest to run. assuming we'll have a 10 x 10 room. I am not worries about budget right now just want to know what is most cost effective with good result, assuming we'll run these lights for 2 years.

HPS/ FLO/ LED, Wattage , brands etc

thanks!

(ima gonna have different plants in there from fruits, veggies to my personal med, but this shouldn't effect lighting options)

 

[JJ Bones]

What are you yield goals?

Example: 1 pound every 3 months

 

[hydromaniac]

why does that matter ? I dont really have goals but I want a yield closer to a maximum or lights that are comparable to 600watt hps over a 4x4 space.

so one scenario is for ex : 2 - 3 6watt hps lights in 10x10 room (that is expensive to run IMO tho)

 

[Hosebomber]

Cost effectiveness covers a lot of variables that you are not giving us the information for. Are you growing 5 foot tall trees or 2 foot tall Scrog or somewhere in between. Start-up cost will be cheaper with CFLs. If you are trying to light a 10x10 you will lose out on the efficiency of those lights very quickly. HPS are cheaper up front than LED lighting but will cost you more on your electric bill every month for the remainder of the time you are growing. Other options are deviding the room and running T5's for mothers and clones and HPS and MH for veg and flower.

 

[hydromaniac]

I will be vegging for 1 month in hydro. CFLs are out of the question. so between HPS and LED, which wattage and how many do you think will be best cost effective options while not sacrificing too much quality and yield.

 

[Hosebomber]

You still failed to give the relevant information. Read over the basic lighting thread in my signature. If you still have questions after reading through that, ask an informed direct question. The following is covered in that post but: If you are lighting a 10x10 area for flowering you will need at least 5000 watts of HID lighting or 3500 watts of high quality LED lighting. The difference is about $3000-$7000 (depending on the brand of panels you buy) in start up cost and $54 to $200 (depending on your rates) a month in electric cost.

 

[hydromaniac]

I read most of that thread, but 5000 watts? how does that work!? I have grown amazing plants in a 5x5 space with a 1000 watt bulb and a xxxl hood, why would a 10x10 need 5000!?
and all i want is peoples opinion as to what they would put in a 10x10 grow room for veg and flower with 1 month of veg (height 5-6ft max)

 

[Hosebomber]

It works like this; 50 watts per square foot of area you are attempting to grow in. 10 x 10 = 100 square feet times 50 watts per square foot = 5000 watts. Yes a 1000 watt system will cover a 5x5 area ok, but the edges are usually not used as part of the grow area and used to move around the plants. So the actual grow area is more like 4.5 x 4.5 or less. A 10 ft by 10 ft area is four 5x5 areas pushed together using all of the edges to grow.

You ask for the best results while being the cheapest to operate. That leaves a lot of questions to be answered on what exactly you are looking for. You obviously didn't make it through the first 2 post in that thread or it would have answered the questions of the previous post. There truly is too many variable on what you are looking for and what conditions you have to deal with to give a solid answer to that.

 

[hydromaniac]

you really insist to make this very complicated , there really cant be THAT many things that go into account for what light to choose, I already gave you space / number of plants (12-18) and average height and how long i want to vegetate, ill even give you a budget of $1200 for lighting. if someone gave you this problem and told you to solve it for a million bucks, what would your answer be ?

and the 50 watt per sqrft seems reasonable for a absolute starter, but with good pruning and LST methods you can achieve same results with much less light... (1000 watt in 5x5 i had the plants receiving a minimum of 5k lumens at its darkest and a average of 20k lumens overall, i really doubt more light would do much unless we have crazy amount of cooling system and able to bring lights closer. I am sure there are many people who have 50 watts per sqrft with much much worse lumens distribution )

so what other variables are there?! you know what, forget it, just tell me this, would you put 3 600 watts (or 2 1000 watts) in a 10x10 or go with LED (if so which LEDs do you recommend)?

 

[Fuzzy Duck]

Ye 50w per square foot is kind of average for most growing, ya don't really want to go lower than 30w as it may well effect yield & btw 65w is considered pretty optimal...

But the above is mainly for HPS / MH & that being some rather old skool method !

If looking at HPS or dual spec HIDs/HPS or MH for an area of 10 x 10 presumable in foot ya more likely looking at 4 x 1000w or 4 x 600w bulbs for a good coverage housed in an extra large hoods... might suggest heat problem & may lead to some beefy ventilation or air cooled hoods.

A light mover rack could be an option if less bulbs are desired & should work well with standard hoods/reflectors but adds cost.


Once ya factored in cost per hood/bulb/ballast may include ducting if air cooled hoods are used ! you may wish to compare this against a suitable LED model...


As in cost effectiveness, if worryed about ultilitie bills you may wish to look at GLR (gas lantern routine) veg or even DLR ( dimininshing light routine) flowering for growing !

CFL/T5/T8's are pretty good for veg, in your space T8's could be an option... but may add cost to set up...

So i'd really look at one light/bulb does all... some dual spec HPS/HID are an option or even a suitable LED panel ! But that only really applies to if growing from seed to harvest under one bulb !



Ultimately i would suggest is optimizing your grow area

If looking at seed to harvest ya looking at 4 to 5 months... that is about 2 to 3 harvest per year depending on strain flowering time being the real question 'n' veg period !

So you may wish to choose a perpetual grow style flowering whilst another is in veg rince & repeat process... that is cost effective !



Lights should not viewed upon on cost effectiveness but grow style should be your leading question.

Cost cuts can be made by choice of lighting tho on over all set up cost !

 

[JJ Bones]

why does that matter ? I dont really have goals but I want a yield closer to a maximum or lights that are comparable to 600watt hps over a 4x4 space.

so one scenario is for ex : 2 - 3 6watt hps lights in 10x10 room (that is expensive to run IMO tho)

Well when you do anything you want as many metrics as possible. If you can't measure it, you can't manage it. Goals are important.

If you're talking cost effectiveness, wouldn't yield be a key metric in determining effectiveness?

Anyhow, so you're in a 10x10 room, growing 12-18 plants, vegging for 1 month. So who knows how big they'll get because we don't know the strain. However we do know most plants get fairly large with a 1 month veg in hydro.

Give them around 4 sq ft for each plant, you can fit 16 plants into an 8x8 space in this scenario. (this is just an example, obviously modify numbers if you'd like).

For that space I would run either six 600w or four 1000w. I would not put three 600w or two 1000w in a 10x10 space, that is not enough light that would only be around 18w -20w per sq ft. Why waste the space with that little of light? Especially considering your growing big plants which require more light then small plants?

 

[hydromaniac]

Thanks guys, now these were some better suggestions.
@Fuzzy Duck , so you think I should divide room in about half and run half vegging half flowering? that seems like a good idea but i guess id have to do some numbers and see how much it yields per year and per cost compared to a 10x10 grow with 4 x 600 watts.

(on a side note, wouldn't 4x600 or 4x1000 watts throw a red flag to my electric company ? that is a shit ton of wattage!!)

I have looked at a different lighting schedules too and i might try a 15 on 9 off for veg and 12 ,12 for flower with lower every week or the 12, 5.5 1 5.5

 

[Fuzzy Duck]

Thanks guys, now these were some better suggestions.
@Fuzzy Duck , so you think I should divide room in about half and run half vegging half flowering? that seems like a good idea but i guess id have to do some numbers and see how much it yields per year and per cost compared to a 10x10 grow with 4 x 600 watts.

Ye with a perpetual grow style & short flowering strain mainly indica dominate average flowering time 7 to 9 weeks grown on a perpetual grow method... that is a harvest every 2 months aprox, that is about 5 harvest a year... the numbers should add up !

When compared to 2 or 3 grows a year depending on strain from seed to harvest !


So ye its about personally goals & own needs to how ya grow

Strain type grown, flowering time & yield of strain under said wattage of bulb takes effect... this all boils down to end results to what ya wanna achieve...

(on a side note, wouldn't 4x600 or 4x1000 watts throw a red flag to my electric company ? that is a shit ton of wattage!!)

Yup that is a big electric bill... i wouldn't want that for my own personal needs & may flag up to the ol electric company... but may depend on size of property etc & own agenda !

I have looked at a different lighting schedules too and i might try a 15 on 9 off for veg and 12 ,12 for flower with lower every week or the 12, 5.5 1 5.5

Ye it helps a little in savings... i use 16/8 for veg under a 125 watt giant CFL 6400k spectrum for 4 plants with out a problem in 2 X 2 space.

I have used DLR (diminshing light routine) tho in the past starting at 11/13 & going down by 30 mins on the timer every 2 weeks to save cost... this produced seed in my bud tho & defeats the object of sensimilla (seedless bud) yes & method tryed over a few grows of the same strain !

Long story tho... but related to stress... no hermie problems where noted !


I know use 12/12 on average.

 

[hydromaniac]

Alright thanks man, I will try and figure out the best way to divide that 10x10. maybe Ill veg with T5s in a 6x6 (or 2 x 250w MH) and then have a 9 x 4 with 2 - 3 x 600 watts. the rest a bit of space to move around. Ill also look into different light timings and maybe even a light mover? !

 

[Fuzzy Duck]

T5's are 2 foot long tubes.

T8's are 4 foot long tubes.


You should be able to get away with with 2 x 600w in new space listed.



Light mover/light rail - example

Light Mover - YouTube

 

[Hosebomber]

Actually T12, T8, and T5 come in all lengths. The T designates florescent bulb and the number following is the diameter pf the bulb in 1/8th's of an inch. Likewise, T5's are the only ones that COME in High output (you can overdrive T12 and T8 bulbs but the cost to do so makes the savings in choosing that type negligible other than the cost of bulbs. High output offers ~85% more radiant flux for twice the power consumption in the coverage area.

 

[Fuzzy Duck]

Actually T12, T8, and T5 come in all lengths. The T designates florescent bulb and the number following is the diameter pf the bulb in 1/8th's of an inch. Likewise, T5's are the only ones that COME in High output (you can overdrive T12 and T8 bulbs but the cost to do so makes the savings in choosing that type negligible other than the cost of bulbs. High output offers ~85% more radiant flux for twice the power consumption in the coverage area.

Learned some thing new here, cheers meh ol china


I did com across some info some where suggesting that T12 or T8 have a shorter life span when compared to T5 tubes ?

 

[hydromaniac]

cool, I will give that a try and update this post with a link to the grow when I start!

 

[Hosebomber]

The difference in life between a T5 and T8 are very small, both will last about 5000 hours longer than a T12. If you overdrive them The T8 and T12 will last less than half the life of a HO T5.