1969gtx
Well-Known Member
Are the genetics that much better? Opinions please!
Cali Connection seed strains, worth the coin?
- Thread starter 1969gtx
- Start date
fanleaf
Well-Known Member
Every single person I know personally Including a 20,000 sq ft medical warehouse grow and myself love the 818 headband however will never grow it again. For me, it's the only strain I have ever had that will almost always hermie out. At minimum there is always a few nanners for absolutely no reason. Totally pollinated a huge medical grow at a buddies medical warehouse grow mentioned above as well. For me, never again!
My grow room environment is absolutely optimal and there is never a reason for plants to hermi out on there but that one never fails.
I bought the beans because I simply did not believe what I read about on Google. I was wrong! Just do a Google search on it and you will see all you need to see.
I'm guessing that CC's genetics must be better than they used to be - because the company is still in business, lol. Maybe Swerve learned a few things since pictures of one of his grows appeared in High Times back in 2011 (July? I don't remember) and people started making fun of them because the plants were covered in PM.
Apparently he used to be a member of a cannabis forum, and when people started having lots of issues with his seeds, decided that wholesale deletion of posts/threads was wiser than actually bothering to address people's concerns. And it seemed... One hesitates to use the term "bipolar," but you know how some people can seem really nice one day and then go apesh!t the next? That doesn't say anything about his products, of course, but it didn't make the business part of the business look good. From posts that I read, he later managed to get banned from that forum - which was probably comparable to getting kicked out of your house because you couldn't be convinced that sh!tting in the corner of the living room was not a good idea (which strikes me as something that only a complete idiot or someone with a significant mental issue would have happen to them, since the average person knows where to defecate). After reading some of the stuff (I'm not a member of other cannabis forums, lol, but I can use a search engine with the best of 'em), I kind of wished that CC had been a sponsor here - because I doubt that the owner of THIS forum would have allowed "deletion, deletion, deletion" to happen. Like any of them, we have (very occasionally) seen a sponsor with problems - and they've been addressed, as far as I know. Oh well...
Reviews have run the range from "best thing since sliced bread" to "Hermie City." It's really hard to turn that into a definitive statement, because there are an almost infinite number of variables involved... Does the average positive reviewer have any previous experience, or is it the first time he/she ever grew his/her own bud? And the same with the negatives - could some of the bad things have happened because of "user error," where a better and/or more experienced grower would have avoided the issues altogether? I used to think, "Where there's smoke, there's fire." But, well... Internet
. It's like the largest class of fourth graders, ever. You could probably start rumors today about just about anyone/anything and, within weeks at most, people would be telling YOU about the things as if they had personally experienced them. No one ever seems to say, "Yeah, this may not be true - and I personally have no idea - but I read that..."
I, personally, have no idea
.
So... Where there's smoke, there's fire - or a bunch of p!ssed off people, or just a couple with some spare time, lol.
It is pretty evident that the guy has - or at least had at one time - access to some good genetics, and some that weren't available in seed form. If you want to grow Cleopatra's T!ts, but it's a clone-only strain, you have to either get lucky enough to be given a cutting... or you buy seeds from someone who has been given one and who has selfed it. (BtW, I made that strain name up.) You can end up getting something great, but you might also see the occasional issue due to the limited pool the genetics were drawn from. In a perfect world... Well, if you mate with your sister, do not expect the resulting kid to become a Nobel prize winning scientist when he/she/it grows up, lol. That's common sense, but when you translate it into the plant (cannabis) world... IDK. It could explain some issues, and even go a ways towards excusing them. I mean... I like Thai sativas, and have since the '80s. Someone brought me a quantity of seeds from the region (not from a seedbank). I messed with them for several years, and even did some minor crossing. ALL of the original seeds produced hermaphrodites, and so did the crosses that still retained the "magic" of the parent. Maybe I could have bred that trait out without losing what made the stuff so special in my eyes if I had been willing to carry things on to the sixth generation. But I was growing for product at the time, and who likes seedy bud, lol?
When I hear the term "cannabis breeder," I sort of envision a person who DOES take the time to do that. To understand backcrossing. To put a lot of effort into creating a strain, so that the grower doesn't end up with 100 different phenotypes. (If you buy a pack of tomato seeds, for example, you pretty much know what you're going to be harvesting, because it'll be the same as you got last year.)
One of these days, lol, I hope to actually find a cannabis breeder like that. But I won't be holding my breath.
Oh... Some genes are responsible for more than one thing in an organism. I forget the technical term, but it is entirely possible that what makes a strain special... turns out to be caused by the exact same thing that makes it a RPITA to grow. In such cases, it's really not the breeder's fault; one either puts up with the issues or becomes determined to breed them out - and ends up with generic bud.
So it's not really one of those "yes/no" questions. Still and all, I cannot wonder if this might be a case of smoke actually being a sign of fire.
Short answer: Ya pays yer money, ya takes yer chances. If you see something that you like, go for it. But you might want to segregate that strain from the rest of your plants if you like sin semilla, lol.
You can do a web search for
and read a great many bad things. Again, use your own judgement when deciding how relevant what you'll discover actually is.
Apparently he used to be a member of a cannabis forum, and when people started having lots of issues with his seeds, decided that wholesale deletion of posts/threads was wiser than actually bothering to address people's concerns. And it seemed... One hesitates to use the term "bipolar," but you know how some people can seem really nice one day and then go apesh!t the next? That doesn't say anything about his products, of course, but it didn't make the business part of the business look good. From posts that I read, he later managed to get banned from that forum - which was probably comparable to getting kicked out of your house because you couldn't be convinced that sh!tting in the corner of the living room was not a good idea (which strikes me as something that only a complete idiot or someone with a significant mental issue would have happen to them, since the average person knows where to defecate). After reading some of the stuff (I'm not a member of other cannabis forums, lol, but I can use a search engine with the best of 'em), I kind of wished that CC had been a sponsor here - because I doubt that the owner of THIS forum would have allowed "deletion, deletion, deletion" to happen. Like any of them, we have (very occasionally) seen a sponsor with problems - and they've been addressed, as far as I know. Oh well...
Reviews have run the range from "best thing since sliced bread" to "Hermie City." It's really hard to turn that into a definitive statement, because there are an almost infinite number of variables involved... Does the average positive reviewer have any previous experience, or is it the first time he/she ever grew his/her own bud? And the same with the negatives - could some of the bad things have happened because of "user error," where a better and/or more experienced grower would have avoided the issues altogether? I used to think, "Where there's smoke, there's fire." But, well... Internet
. It's like the largest class of fourth graders, ever. You could probably start rumors today about just about anyone/anything and, within weeks at most, people would be telling YOU about the things as if they had personally experienced them. No one ever seems to say, "Yeah, this may not be true - and I personally have no idea - but I read that..."I, personally, have no idea
.So... Where there's smoke, there's fire - or a bunch of p!ssed off people, or just a couple with some spare time, lol.
It is pretty evident that the guy has - or at least had at one time - access to some good genetics, and some that weren't available in seed form. If you want to grow Cleopatra's T!ts, but it's a clone-only strain, you have to either get lucky enough to be given a cutting... or you buy seeds from someone who has been given one and who has selfed it. (BtW, I made that strain name up.) You can end up getting something great, but you might also see the occasional issue due to the limited pool the genetics were drawn from. In a perfect world... Well, if you mate with your sister, do not expect the resulting kid to become a Nobel prize winning scientist when he/she/it grows up, lol. That's common sense, but when you translate it into the plant (cannabis) world... IDK. It could explain some issues, and even go a ways towards excusing them. I mean... I like Thai sativas, and have since the '80s. Someone brought me a quantity of seeds from the region (not from a seedbank). I messed with them for several years, and even did some minor crossing. ALL of the original seeds produced hermaphrodites, and so did the crosses that still retained the "magic" of the parent. Maybe I could have bred that trait out without losing what made the stuff so special in my eyes if I had been willing to carry things on to the sixth generation. But I was growing for product at the time, and who likes seedy bud, lol?
When I hear the term "cannabis breeder," I sort of envision a person who DOES take the time to do that. To understand backcrossing. To put a lot of effort into creating a strain, so that the grower doesn't end up with 100 different phenotypes. (If you buy a pack of tomato seeds, for example, you pretty much know what you're going to be harvesting, because it'll be the same as you got last year.)
One of these days, lol, I hope to actually find a cannabis breeder like that. But I won't be holding my breath.
Oh... Some genes are responsible for more than one thing in an organism. I forget the technical term, but it is entirely possible that what makes a strain special... turns out to be caused by the exact same thing that makes it a RPITA to grow. In such cases, it's really not the breeder's fault; one either puts up with the issues or becomes determined to breed them out - and ends up with generic bud.
So it's not really one of those "yes/no" questions. Still and all, I cannot wonder if this might be a case of smoke actually being a sign of fire.
Short answer: Ya pays yer money, ya takes yer chances. If you see something that you like, go for it. But you might want to segregate that strain from the rest of your plants if you like sin semilla, lol.
You can do a web search for
Code:
Cali Connection Swervefanleaf
Well-Known Member
It's funny this post actually came up @Tortured Soul because I just gave it one last shot with them on new beans I just got from them. Just harvested my last 818 Headband and I can show pictures right now of the bud 50%cured that's hanging right now as I type this with a few nanners still in the bud. I've given those seeds three different chances on 3 seperate grows because I like the bud and like I said just harvested the last chance I was giving them. It's crazy because I've never ever had a Hermie issue like this. The plants in the same room of different strains were all just fine.
fanleaf
Well-Known Member
Got a really bad rep for herms.. that's unwarranted in my experience... I had four original sour Diesel go Herm on me, found information that said if the rh is keept over 50℅ untill week 6 flowering the intersex won't show itself. This was correct info from my grows and harvests of original sour Diesel.. the plants, although not a big fan of sour Diesel are superior..
fanleaf
Well-Known Member
Ha, maybe my normal set relative humidity for flowering all my plants at 35% that works fine with every other strain I grow didnt hide the male half on my CC seeds then.
Again, great bud and if that's the only strain in the whole grow room then sure, why not, but to have to keep rh at vegging levels late in flower to hold back a plant from showing what it really is, is a bunk way of having to grow. Not for me anyways.
Again, great bud and if that's the only strain in the whole grow room then sure, why not, but to have to keep rh at vegging levels late in flower to hold back a plant from showing what it really is, is a bunk way of having to grow. Not for me anyways.
If you got to grow commercial, then yeah connoisseur genetics prolly aren't something worth considering, as a little more time and effort is required...
fanleaf
Well-Known Member
I guess we just differ in our opinion on what "connoisseur genetics" are. To each their own. My .02 is there.
Gadfly
Well-Known Member
My experience with CC is similar to what is here. I’ve gotten good nugs with their SFV and Tahoe strains. But I was fighting nuts all through flowering. I don’t have a lot of “breeder” experience to speak of but I didn’t have hermie issues using clones or bag seed from unknown sources. I haven’t bought anything from them for over 6 years.
On a positive note, I just popped one of those 6+ Year old sfv seeds and I see a white tip. It took a week in a napkin, but it’s there.
On a positive note, I just popped one of those 6+ Year old sfv seeds and I see a white tip. It took a week in a napkin, but it’s there.
I don't want to post a link to it, because the thread is on another cannabis-related forum, but a search for "Cali Connection Feminized La Cookies Review W/pictures" (with quotes) will bring up a thread posted in October, 2017. There are some interesting pictures in it. I had never seen hermaphroditic expression take that particular form before - it's almost like Swerve created a third plant sex.
Again, grow room variables can stress plants (I once grew one (each) Serious Seeds Kali Mist and Sensi Seeds Jack Herer, and ended up with seeds - might have been the many months of vegetative light cycle, LARGE plants, and small containers, IDK), which can cause opposite-sex flower production. But this was... It would have surely won an award, lol, had someone been able to figure out a category for it.
I have read good things about their Tahoe OG. Mostly. Well, more than half. I have two seeds labeled "Buddha Tahoe OG" (and that's the only information I have, as they were gifts from someone who received them as gifts), and I remain somewhat hopeful that they'll be fine when I get around to trying to grow them.
fanleaf
Well-Known Member
Gonna go give that a read!
fanleaf
Well-Known Member
Oh my gosh! That was a crazy read. The pictures are unlike anything I've seen! You have to work awful hard to make a hermi hermi out lmao....That is something special. Makes my few nanners look like a 100% successful grow.
Yeah, it was pretty awesome, IMHO. Of course, that is my impression as a member of the peanut gallery. I don't suppose the person who attempted to grow the plants was smiling.
And that was a relatively recent thread. One assumes that the seeds were produced at some point in time after everyone and their brother were raging at the guy for selling crappy merchandise, promising 100% of the complainers that he'd make it right, deciding it'd be acceptable to actually address (an estimated) 3% of them, flipping out on the forums, having a flaky ex-girlfriend post the naked picture of his scrawny-@ss self mistakenly thought it was anything but sheer idiocy to send her, getting busted in Amsterdam (possibly not for cannabis, IDK because I'm not a member of Skunk's forum and cannot read the original article), et cetera. How many of us have been in a relationship where we finally decided, "Okay, second chance - fine. Third chance - fine. But there comes a point..." lol?
I'll reiterate: Sometimes, amazing strains carry the burden of having... amazing issues. That's, well, life. But I'm of the opinion that at least SOME of them should come with highly visible warnings attached, lol. And also of the opinion that what is fine and dandy to produce for one's own garden (or even for one's informed friends' gardens)... is not always considered acceptable to sell as a commercial product. Build a car that's awesomely quick but might explode? No worries, I'll still be happy to watch it run quarter-mile drags all day long. But you probably shouldn't try selling 30,000 of them . . . .
And that was a relatively recent thread. One assumes that the seeds were produced at some point in time after everyone and their brother were raging at the guy for selling crappy merchandise, promising 100% of the complainers that he'd make it right, deciding it'd be acceptable to actually address (an estimated) 3% of them, flipping out on the forums, having a flaky ex-girlfriend post the naked picture of his scrawny-@ss self mistakenly thought it was anything but sheer idiocy to send her, getting busted in Amsterdam (possibly not for cannabis, IDK because I'm not a member of Skunk's forum and cannot read the original article), et cetera. How many of us have been in a relationship where we finally decided, "Okay, second chance - fine. Third chance - fine. But there comes a point..." lol?
I'll reiterate: Sometimes, amazing strains carry the burden of having... amazing issues. That's, well, life. But I'm of the opinion that at least SOME of them should come with highly visible warnings attached, lol. And also of the opinion that what is fine and dandy to produce for one's own garden (or even for one's informed friends' gardens)... is not always considered acceptable to sell as a commercial product. Build a car that's awesomely quick but might explode? No worries, I'll still be happy to watch it run quarter-mile drags all day long. But you probably shouldn't try selling 30,000 of them
. . . .
Jackalope
Well-Known Member
I see the word is out. Cali Connection has some great genetics. They also have a hermie problem. I grow their Tahoe and get a hermie here and there. It is strong as F**k so I keep growing it.
You asked if it is worth the coin. That answer has to be NO. Not at their prices. It all matters what that money means to you. There is a chance you will be wasting it. You could get some kick ass weed though.
Way too many great breeders out there too risk your money.
I have heard that the hermie genetics come from the SFV Og they use to breed female seeds. Don't know for sure if that is a fact. If I was going to buy Cali seeds I would look for something that does not have it in the mix. I don't know for sure they use it for everything. If they have a strain made with different genetics then It might be worth a try
You asked if it is worth the coin. That answer has to be NO. Not at their prices. It all matters what that money means to you. There is a chance you will be wasting it. You could get some kick ass weed though.
Way too many great breeders out there too risk your money.
I have heard that the hermie genetics come from the SFV Og they use to breed female seeds. Don't know for sure if that is a fact. If I was going to buy Cali seeds I would look for something that does not have it in the mix. I don't know for sure they use it for everything. If they have a strain made with different genetics then It might be worth a try
Why does Nirvana seem to cross everything they get their hands on with either Skunk #1 or their Afghani (the name of which escapes me)?
There was a buzz about SFV OG on cannabis forums for a while, so maybe it's just a way to create newbie-bait, lol? Get half the folks on four or five forums to start talking about the clone-only Dave's Special Sativa ("It'll fire you up so well, you'll expect it to come with a runny nose!"
) and it wouldn't surprise me if someone started selling crosses of it - even though it doesn't actually exist.Hey, speaking of "is it worth the money," even though I usually don't since using even the most expensive seeds to grow your own bud makes the price of that bud closer to $30/ounce than $300... Does anyone remember KC Brains? They're still around. I get the "nostalgia vibe" every now and then and look at what breeders who've been in existence for over 20 years have on their lists, so I was just looking at their pages on one of the mega-banks a little while ago. They have both regular and feminized versions - and the price of a five-pack of non-feminized seeds of every strain I checked was a whopping $7.67. Can you buy even a single one-gram joint for that these days, lol? I've never grown any of that breeder's strains, and haven't even smoked any in years, so I cannot speak about the quality - but in terms of value, it's got to rank higher than a $608 pack of Doggie's Nuts seeds
.- Thread starter
- #17
1969gtx
Well-Known Member
Nice looking buds fanleaf. Haven't heard the term nanners like that before!
Good info on RH, now I have more info to look up.
Good info on RH, now I have more info to look up.
Datcoldboi
New Member
What are some better breeders that you would recommend?
Dankman_420
Well-Known Member
For what it's worth only cali connection I've grown was 818 headband, both phenos hermed badly. And they were not environmental issues as they were with half a dozen other strains that had no issues
