Confused & Frustrated

[just starting]

Hey 420 users.
I am older than dirt and just started to grow for myself last year, I started with Incredible Bulk, LA Confidential, Kripple Roulette. I had about 12 plants that produced about 1.5 lbs of bud. The incredible bulk buds were huge and looked great the others at best so so. I could not get the buds to tighten up. I dried them for about seven - 9 days until the smaller branch on the stem would snap and then cured them in quart size jars for a month making sure to burp them. The incredible bulk was ok but the smoke itself was some what disapointing. I have six 400 watt cob led lights and one 600 watt. My grow space is 4X10. Anyway I am trying to get my buds tighter and smoother tasting. My harvest was when the buds hair was all red and the triclones ( SP) were about 10% amber and all were at least milky color in the magnifier. I am startinga new grow soon with Sour Diesel,Blackberry Kush, Gods Gift and Grand daddy purple. Any suggestions. Thanks

 

[Bonsaiweed]

Tight buds are usually from two things. A LOT of light, and lots of nutrients (not to the point of burning the plant though).

If you want tighter buds, you have two options, in my opinion. I'm not the gospel singer here, so I'm talking from my point of view.

A 4 x 10 tent is 40 square feet. If using LEDs, most people use a formula to get 1 gram per watt from the plants. That formula is 35 watts per square foot. With the current LEDs you have, the formula will only cover 28 square feet. Or a little over a 5 x 5 area. Maybe 5.5 x 5.5.

You can either reduce your grow area or increase your lighting.

Now, like I stated, this is only my opinion.

Beyond that, welcome to our little "virtual village".

I hope you continue to participate. there are a lot of us here who are about the age of dirt.

Make a journal, and share. We like people who stick around and be part of the group.

 

[Weaselcracker]

Yeah fluffy buds are often from lack of light. Sometimes from other mistreatment like feeding issues, but usually it's just that they failed to fully develop abecause they didn't get the light required.
Tapering off and ending all feeding a couple weeks before harvest helps a lot with the quality.
Sounds like you'd be best to shrink your space down or else add more light. 35- 50w per foot of LED is sort of a baseline or average.

 

[Weaselcracker]

"If using LEDs, most people use a formula to get 1 gram per watt from the plants. That formula is 35 watts per square foot. With the current LEDs you have, the formula will only cover 28 square feet. Or a little over a 5 x 5 area. Maybe 5.5 x 5.5."

I don't know anything about LEDs. But wouldn't that formula only apply to actual watts? Whereas almost every time I hear someone say the wattage of their LEDs, they're reciting some sort of 'nominal wattage' which actually isn't what the light draws. To be honest I find it annoying but wtf. I had a Mars '1200 watt' that I won in the POTM contest. It drew around 600 watts. To me that is a a 600 watt light not a 1200, and I would use it accordingly.

So to the OP I think we would need to know that actual draw wattage of your lights. What they draw from the wall. Or does the 35w/foot formula for LED account for 'nominal wattage' ?

 

[Weaselcracker]

A 4 x 10 tent is 40 square feet. If using LEDs, most people use a formula to get 1 gram per watt from the plants. That formula is 35 watts per square foot. With the current LEDs you have, the formula will only cover 28 square feet. Or a little over a 5 x 5 area. Maybe 5.5 x 5.5

I don't know anything about LEDs. But wouldn't that formula only apply to actual watts? Whereas almost every time I hear someone say the wattage of their LEDs, they're reciting some sort of 'nominal wattage' which actually isn't what the light draws. To be honest I find it annoying but wtf. I had a Mars '1200 watt' that I won in the POTM contest. It drew around 600 watts. To me that is a a 600 watt light not a 1200, and I would use it accordingly.

So to the OP I think we would need to know that actual draw wattage of your lights. What they draw from the wall. Or does the 35w/foot formula for LED account for 'nominal wattage' ?

 

[Bonsaiweed]

"If using LEDs, most people use a formula to get 1 gram per watt from the plants. That formula is 35 watts per square foot. With the current LEDs you have, the formula will only cover 28 square feet. Or a little over a 5 x 5 area. Maybe 5.5 x 5.5."

I don't know anything about LEDs. But wouldn't that formula only apply to actual watts? Whereas almost every time I hear someone say the wattage of their LEDs, they're reciting some sort of 'nominal wattage' which actually isn't what the light draws. To be honest I find it annoying but wtf. I had a Mars '1200 watt' that I won in the POTM contest. It drew around 600 watts. To me that is a a 600 watt light not a 1200, and I would use it accordingly.

So to the OP I think we would need to know that actual draw wattage of your lights. What they draw from the wall. Or does the 35w/foot formula for LED account for 'nominal wattage' ?

Yes, you are totally correct, and I should have stated as such. That is true, that the formula is based on how many watts are drawn from the wall. Not the manufacturers claim of how many "equivalent" watts they are putting out.

Thanks for catching that.......

I'm a little "lost" today.

I use a kill-a-watt meter to know the wattage of my LEDs. You can find them at Harbor Freight if in the US and some places in Canada.

 

[Weaselcracker]

Thanks for clearing that up. So potentially the OP is using half the stated wattage in that space. Which would definitely cause fluffy buds. Yeah I have one of those meters. Very handy.

 

[Bonsaiweed]

So the actual usable space may be even less based on the true wattage. I know I was running 1200 claimed watts in a 2.5 x 2.5 foot space. About 240 true watts.

 

[Bonsaiweed]

But, you can go lower on wattage. This is just based on getting 1 gram of end product (dried and cured) per watt.

 

[Weaselcracker]

Yeah for LED they claim 35w/foot as an average, and 50 for HPS. I would think it would vary radically depending on how shitty or not the led is.
Just to clarify for the OP. As for the one gram per watt thing- that's kind of the gold standard upper limit for most growers (especially the ones who aren't prone to exaggerate too much) and not really a baseline or average. 1/2 gram per watt would be closer to an average I expect, and 3/4 gpw is very good.
The times I've grown one gram per watt I only counted the good bud. At that point in some cases the buds were so crowded together that my particular lights couldn't ripen them all, and there was a couple ounces of inferior bud in there. If I counted it I would have been getting over 1.3 grams per watt. Or would I? No- that would basically be lying. I generally aim for around .8 gpw with the lights I'm using, because I want all my buds to be ripe and high quality.

Anyway- I'm just saying - don't expect 1gpw of great bud until your skills are very good and your growing setup is also very good.

 

[just starting]

Tight buds are usually from two things. A LOT of light, and lots of nutrients (not to the point of burning the plant though).

If you want tighter buds, you have two options, in my opinion. I'm not the gospel singer here, so I'm talking from my point of view.

A 4 x 10 tent is 40 square feet. If using LEDs, most people use a formula to get 1 gram per watt from the plants. That formula is 35 watts per square foot. With the current LEDs you have, the formula will only cover 28 square feet. Or a little over a 5 x 5 area. Maybe 5.5 x 5.5.

You can either reduce your grow area or increase your lighting.

Now, like I stated, this is only my opinion.

Beyond that, welcome to our little "virtual village".

I hope you continue to participate. there are a lot of us here who are about the age of dirt.

Make a journal, and share. We like people who stick around and be part of the group.

Tight buds are usually from two things. A LOT of light, and lots of nutrients (not to the point of burning the plant though).

If you want tighter buds, you have two options, in my opinion. I'm not the gospel singer here, so I'm talking from my point of view.

A 4 x 10 tent is 40 square feet. If using LEDs, most people use a formula to get 1 gram per watt from the plants. That formula is 35 watts per square foot. With the current LEDs you have, the formula will only cover 28 square feet. Or a little over a 5 x 5 area. Maybe 5.5 x 5.5.

You can either reduce your grow area or increase your lighting.

Now, like I stated, this is only my opinion.

Beyond that, welcome to our little "virtual village".

I hope you continue to participate. there are a lot of us here who are about the age of dirt.

Make a journal, and share. We like people who stick around and be part of the group.

thank you it looks like more lights then

 

[just starting]

Hey 420 users.
I am older than dirt and just started to grow for myself last year, I started with Incredible Bulk, LA Confidential, Kripple Roulette. I had about 12 plants that produced about 1.5 lbs of bud. The incredible bulk buds were huge and looked great the others at best so so. I could not get the buds to tighten up. I dried them for about seven - 9 days until the smaller branch on the stem would snap and then cured them in quart size jars for a month making sure to burp them. The incredible bulk was ok but the smoke itself was some what disapointing. I have six 400 watt cob led lights and one 600 watt. My grow space is 4X10. Anyway I am trying to get my buds tighter and smoother tasting. My harvest was when the buds hair was all red and the triclones ( SP) were about 10% amber and all were at least milky color in the magnifier. I am startinga new grow soon with Sour Diesel,Blackberry Kush, Gods Gift and Grand daddy purple. Any suggestions. Thanks

Thank you for those did reply I will invest in more lights.

 

[Bonsaiweed]

Thank you for those did reply I will invest in more lights.

Before investing in lights, I would get something to check my wattage pull from the wall. I want a baseline of what I have versus what I need.

But like I usually say. This is just my opinion. I don't want you to invest in something you may not need.

Knowing your wattage is a great thing. I also use my meter to know my total power draw, but I do use a small space, and one kill-a-watt will measure my whole setup.

 

[just starting]

Before investing in lights, I would get something to check my wattage pull from the wall. I want a baseline of what I have versus what I need.

But like I usually say. This is just my opinion. I don't want you to invest in something you may not need.

Knowing your wattage is a great thing. I also use my meter to know my total power draw, but I do use a small space, and one kill-a-watt will measure my whole setup.

ok thanks. I am trying tp post one of my LA Con pics may take me a while to figure this out.

 

[Weaselcracker]

Check the bottom link of B's signature

 

[Bonsaiweed]

Or here:

Photo Gallery Guide - How to Resize, Upload & Post Photos | 420 Magazine ®

Some people can't see signatures. (small phones)

 

[just starting]

Or here:

Photo Gallery Guide - How to Resize, Upload & Post Photos | 420 Magazine ®

Some people can't see signatures. (small phones)

Thanks

 

[Old Salt]

I don't know anything about LEDs. But wouldn't that formula only apply to actual watts? Whereas almost every time I hear someone say the wattage of their LEDs, they're reciting some sort of 'nominal wattage' which actually isn't what the light draws. To be honest I find it annoying but wtf. I had a Mars '1200 watt' that I won in the POTM contest. It drew around 600 watts. To me that is a a 600 watt light not a 1200, and I would use it accordingly.

You are so right. I figured this out before I bought my light. It's advertised as "X6 Dimmable 1800W COB LED Grow Light," and draws 300W from the wall for a 2' X 4' grow tent. I got the same light and fluffy buds as you report. Yield was 0.47 gm/watt or about 5oz total. The plants furthest from the light were the smallest. I opened up the light to find the LED drivers were only 84% efficient, leaving 252w for the COBs and fans. That worked out to about 30w/sq ft. The light didn't drive down deep enough into the canopy.

My solution was to build a 500w eight COB light, very similar to what our sponsor Timber Grow Lights sells. The cobs are on a one foot grid. I feel that it's probably too much light, but I can dial it down. I suggest adding Timber's Model 2TL, or the 200 Watt Citizen CLU048 (4) COB Grow Light Kits if you are comfortable with sourcing frame materials locally and building it yourself.

You can source similar kits through Alibaba at an even lower price, but you won't get any tech support, and warranty service is expensive due to return shipping. Another advantage is that you can select from a wider variety of color temperatures, and rendering indices.

I like Timber style COB lights as they are easily upgraded at a low cost with new technology. Just add them as you can afford them. It's also easy to add supplemental wavelengths of light if that tickles your fancy.

 

[just starting]

You are so right. I figured this out before I bought my light. It's advertised as "X6 Dimmable 1800W COB LED Grow Light," and draws 300W from the wall for a 2' X 4' grow tent. I got the same light and fluffy buds as you report. Yield was 0.47 gm/watt or about 5oz total. The plants furthest from the light were the smallest. I opened up the light to find the LED drivers were only 84% efficient, leaving 252w for the COBs and fans. That worked out to about 30w/sq ft. The light didn't drive down deep enough into the canopy.

My solution was to build a 500w eight COB light, very similar to what our sponsor Timber Grow Lights sells. The cobs are on a one foot grid. I feel that it's probably too much light, but I can dial it down. I suggest adding Timber's Model 2TL, or the 200 Watt Citizen CLU048 (4) COB Grow Light Kits if you are comfortable with sourcing frame materials locally and building it yourself.

You can source similar kits through Alibaba at an even lower price, but you won't get any tech support, and warranty service is expensive due to return shipping. Another advantage is that you can select from a wider variety of color temperatures, and rendering indices.

I like Timber style COB lights as they are easily upgraded at a low cost with new technology. Just add them as you can afford them. It's also easy to add supplemental wavelengths of light if that tickles your fancy.

ok thanks for the info

 

[just starting]

Check the bottom link of B's signature

Thanks for the info