Deficiency or normal?

[ChronicAffair]

If you look at some of the better known nute lines they include ppm levels of their recommended doses. They have no correlation to a light. So I hafta buy a light that matches up with my nutrient line???!!! LMFAO!!! ....

(Sorry I couldn't help it!)

Of course not my friend. The feeding schedule on the back of a nutrient bottle is rated for a 1000w healthy garden. If using a 600w, you dial the schedule back to 75% of recommendated dose. There are many variables in every garden for the nutrient company's to put an exact feed schedule on the bottle. Light wattage, plant count, usage of co2 and plant age.

 

[Weaselcracker]

What you say about overfeeding is totally true- but extrapolating your situation to make a rule basing ppms on watts of lighting makes zero sense and is the sort of reasoning that would get any scientist shitcanned in a second. This 'rule'- which never existed in the first place, is totally out to lunch.

Anyway- there are way too many obstinate 'knowledgeable' advisors on this thread, not including myself (jk) so I'm going to wander off as well before the inevitable pointless pissing match develops. Best of luck to the OP

 

[M3GAtron711]

1 or 2 things. Either your ph has locked out nutrients (Phosphorus) or your plant needs Phosphorus and there is none in the soil so it takes it from the plant's leaves. Flush with ph7 water and testvtue runoff. If it's 6.2-7.0 add a PK bloomer if it's below 6.2 pH flush the plant in the tub.

Thanks . definitely going to give this a shot and see where we go from there.

 

[MrCanada]

What you say about overfeeding is totally true- but extrapolating your situation to make a rule basing ppms on watts of lighting makes zero sense and is the sort of reasoning that would get any scientist shitcanned in a second. This 'rule'- which never existed in the first place, is totally out to lunch.

Anyway- there are way too many obstinate 'knowledgeable' advisors on this thread, not including myself (jk) so I'm going to wander off as well before the inevitable pointless pissing match develops. Best of luck to the OP

I am FAR from an expert grower, and I enjoy the different opinions from different people. Sometimes there are more than one correct ways to doing things. At the end of the day results are what matter. Thanks for your take on things

 

[Integrum Stultus]

What you say about overfeeding is totally true- but extrapolating your situation to make a rule basing ppms on watts of lighting makes zero sense and is the sort of reasoning that would get any scientist shitcanned in a second. This 'rule'- which never existed in the first place, is totally out to lunch.

Anyway- there are way too many obstinate 'knowledgeable' advisors on this thread, not including myself (jk) so I'm going to wander off as well before the inevitable pointless pissing match develops. Best of luck to the OP

Thats the point I was getting at Weez, but he took it personally.. Good call, Ima step out myself and let the know-it-alls handle this one.

 

[ChronicAffair]

Lmfao. I'm a candy farmer. Not a salt farmer. I'm dropping science. 20 years in the biz. I make an amazing living off of this industry. Why do 85% of growers fail? Too much light, too much water, and too many nutrients. Nutrient companys have you brainwashed that nutrients make weight. Nutrients do help in the growing process but aren't included in the photosynthesis equation. Theres only one main nitrogen in the periodic table. Not an advanced nutrients nitrogen or general hydroponics nitrogen. Stop wasting your money on tripling your plants nutrients when they don't need it. Doesn't help with yeild. But, everyone needs to learn on their own. Happy growing and happy Easter.

 

[Integrum Stultus]

I'll assume that was directed at me. I use neither of those companies products. Im an organic farmer, just with artificial light. LoL! . I spend $40 per grow on nutes and produce 208 grams of flower with 2 plants on avg (.66g/watt), not to mention those nutes will get me thru 1.75 grows. Id say thats a pretty successful yield to cost ratio. My process works time after time. I appreciate you trying to pass on your techniques and respect them and by all means am not saying they are hogwash. I was pulled into this conversation by calling bull shit on a rule of .. I farm fruit sweeter than candy and far from salt my good sir but hey, to each his own and where I reside we have freedom of speech and/or expression.

"Opinions are like assholes... Everybody has one and they all smell like shit."

P.S.- If I'm ever in Ontario I'd love to check out some of your solutions Chron.

 

[ChronicAffair]

I'll assume that was directed at me. I use neither of those companies products. Im an organic farmer, just with artificial light. LoL! . I spend $40 per grow on nutes and produce 208 grams of flower with 2 plants on avg (.66g/watt), not to mention those nutes will get me thru 1.75 grows. Id say thats a pretty successful yield to cost ratio. My process works time after time. I appreciate you trying to pass on your techniques and respect them and by all means am not saying they are hogwash. I was pulled into this conversation by calling bull shit on a rule of .. I farm fruit sweeter than candy and far from salt my good sir but hey, to each his own and where I reside we have freedom of speech and/or expression.

"Opinions are like assholes... Everybody has one and they all smell like shit."

P.S.- If I'm ever in Ontario I'd love to check out some of your solutions Chron.

I don't think you understand what I'm saying. Let's drop some more science. Grab your pencil.
Let's take two different 6 plant gardens. One garden is in a 5x5 space with 1000w over 6 plants.
Second garden is in a 3x3 space with a 400w over 6 plants.
So both gardens have the exact plant count.
The 5x5 garden, each plant has 167 watts a piece
The 3x3 garden, each plant has 67 watts a piece.
Let's say you are in week 4 of veg.
The recommended feed schedule on every bottle of nutrients is based on a 1000w healthy garden. So you are telling me you feed a 167 watt plant the same amount of nutrients as a 67 watt plant even though the 67w plant is a third of the size of the 167w? Here's where my rule of thumb comes into play. Ppm should not exceed wattage of light.
Nutrients don't decide yield, amount of light in the proper sized grow space does.
Happy growing.

 

[Integrum Stultus]

Since you insist upon continuing this discussion from where are you deriving your benchmark of feed companies' recommended dosage is for a 1000w garden? I'm calling bull shit on that. With your logic that would mean the average gardener is using a 1000w set-up. Not likely. Whats more likely and what i have gathered thru the people I known in Michigan, Colorado, California and Oregon who are in the business when proposing this question to them they all responded identically through different words. What the conclusion was is that the standard was set pertaining to a single potted plant on an 18/6 veg 12/12 bloom with 50w per cubic foot. All of these are standards in cannabis cultivation. Also if you care for a horticulturist/Biologists opinion who has a Bachelors and then some school in plant botany and the likes they claim the same thing. It is their opinion that the feed guidelines on many if not all feed bottles is for a set-up as I've described.
Chron, get off your high horse dude. You keep wanting to one up me. It is what it is and the facts speak for themselves. Its pretty well documented. Now any fool knows that as power/temp/etc and such rise metabolism rises. So yes they will feed more or take a heavier dose. Never have I disputed this throughout this thread. So I'm still a little confused as to why you keep trying to come at me sideways.
I will prove you wrong. My next grow i will feed one plant normally and will not feed the other one in the tent more than 300ppm as you claim I shouldn't feed higher than my light wattage. I will bet you $5,000 USD the plant getting a higher level will out do the lower level one. Put your money where your mouth is.

 

[ChronicAffair]

Since you insist upon continuing this discussion from where are you deriving your benchmark of feed companies' recommended dosage is for a 1000w garden? I'm calling bull shit on that. With your logic that would mean the average gardener is using a 1000w set-up. Not likely. Whats more likely and what i have gathered thru the people I known in Michigan, Colorado, California and Oregon who are in the business when proposing this question to them they all responded identically through different words. What the conclusion was is that the standard was set pertaining to a single potted plant on an 18/6 veg 12/12 bloom with 50w per cubic foot. All of these are standards in cannabis cultivation. Also if you care for a horticulturist/Biologists opinion who has a Bachelors and then some school in plant botany and the likes they claim the same thing. It is their opinion that the feed guidelines on many if not all feed bottles is for a set-up as I've described.
Chron, get off your high horse dude. You keep wanting to one up me. It is what it is and the facts speak for themselves. Its pretty well documented. Now any fool knows that as power/temp/etc and such rise metabolism rises. So yes they will feed more or take a heavier dose. Never have I disputed this throughout this thread. So I'm still a little confused as to why you keep trying to come at me sideways.
I will prove you wrong. My next grow i will feed one plant normally and will not feed the other one in the tent more than 300ppm as you claim I shouldn't feed higher than my light wattage. I will bet you $5,000 USD the plant getting a higher level will out do the lower level one. Put your money where your mouth is.

It's obvious by your message that you don't have enough growing experience or knowledge to help people on this forum. I am a master grower who does this daily. My example with the 6 plants is about plant watts , not light needed per cubic foot. It pertains to plant size. If you divide 1000w by 6, you get 167 per plant. So that means a plant under a 1000w is bigger than the one under the 400w. In the photosynthesis equation, a plant needs light, co2 and water to grow. Nutrients are only the calories to help it accomplish that. If growing bigger plants was just about nutrients, why do we bother with the high heat bright lights? That's why we feed plants by ppm and not measured in ml. More watts means more nutrients. You only need to feed a plant nutrients when she asks for it. It's light that dictates yield. If nutrients dictated yield, you could dump in a whole bottle and make monsters. Keep reading and learning on the subject. Stop embarrassing the community with false facts. I'll offer up 20000 USD to prove me wrong. I only take cash.

 

[JimmyJames905]

It's obvious by your message that you don't have enough growing experience or knowledge to help people on this forum. I am a master grower who does this daily. My example with the 6 plants is about plant watts , not light needed per cubic foot. It pertains to plant size. If you divide 1000w by 6, you get 167 per plant. So that means a plant under a 1000w is bigger than the one under the 400w. In the photosynthesis equation, a plant needs light, co2 and water to grow. Nutrients are only the calories to help it accomplish that. If growing bigger plants was just about nutrients, why do we bother with the high heat bright lights? That's why we feed plants by ppm and not measured in ml. More watts means more nutrients. You only need to feed a plant nutrients when she asks for it. It's light that dictates yield. If nutrients dictated yield, you could dump in a whole bottle and make monsters. Keep reading and learning on the subject. Stop embarrassing the community with false facts. I'll offer up 20000 USD to prove me wrong. I only take cash.

I grow 10 plants under 212w LED cob. My yield is is 1.96g per watt. I also don't use added nutrients.
Please send that cash to....

 

[Integrum Stultus]

When did I ever claim nutrients dictated yield? Never once. I love how big of an asshole you're making yourself look. I don't need to huff and puff and beat on my chest Mr Master Grower. Do you wanna compare dicks now too?..
Your rule of thumb was bullshit and I and some others called you on it and you don't like it. Get over it. I'm here agreeing with you in part and disagreeing (about something that is bull shit) with you and you keep wanting to argue. Dont you have something better to do? Anytime you wanna put the money up we can escrow it online. ...

 

[JimmyJames905]

When did I ever claim nutrients dictated yield? Never once. I love how big of an asshole you're making yourself look. I don't need to huff and puff and beat on my chest Mr Master Grower. Do you wanna compare dicks now too?..
Your rule of thumb was bullshit and I and some others called you on it and you don't like it. Get over it. I'm here agreeing with you in part and disagreeing (about something that is bull shit) with you and you keep wanting to argue. Dont you have something better to do? Anytime you wanna put the money up we can escrow it online. ...

I agree. That rule of thumb is nonsense. By his logic my 200w system with no nutes would Grow zero weed. And yet....look at my journals. Also last time I checked, watts was a unit of consumption not output you can't "give" plants watts. But what do I know? It's not like I'm a Biotech engineer that works in the cannabis industry or anything.

 

[Integrum Stultus]

Jimbo, whats your opinion. Using his logic with a 300w light 2 plants side by side. Plant 1 gets the recommended dose of nutrients and Plant 2 gets feed calculated to no more than 300ppm and its a smooth grow with no issue all same conditions but the feed ppm level as I've explained.
Which plant performs the best IYHO??


FYI- I am of the opinion that the light and spectrum are the QB of your grow op. Contrary to what others mite assume or insist about me. Also a 100w of cobs would destroy my 300w panel.
Cob set-ups aren't cheap but they kick ass. I plan on buying one/assembling one by the end if the year.

 

[JimmyJames905]

What type of light? There's a huge difference between Chinese led diodes and a new CMH or top of the line COBs. Also what nutrient.? There's a huge difference between some shabby fox Farms nutes and something like GH with Manmoth P added. But all in all, on a level playing field with no ph issues on a steady Grow the one with more nutrients (assuming it's a hydroponics grow) would yield higher.

 

[Integrum Stultus]

I have a Mars 144x5R and use Roots Organic. Waiting on my sample of Mammoth.

 

[JimmyJames905]

I have a Mars 144x5R and use Roots Organic. Waiting on my sample of Mammoth.

Well I'm using a 8 cob Vero 29 right now with 4 4000k and 4 1750k (HPS killer) chips.
Not a fair comparison as my system blows the shit out of any 1000w HID on the market.
But if you were to grow two side by side under aforementioned conditions you would definitely yield higher on the one with recommended nutrient dosage. Wouldn't matter if you used my system, your system or a flashlight strapped to a gerbils back. Proper nutrient dosage would produce better results.

 

[JimmyJames905]

But I'm gonna side with you as I know you and I don't know chronic what's-his-nuts. Plus when someone says "dropping science", "master grower" and then follows it up with "how many watts your plants need" I start to chuckle as you can't plug your plants into the wall. Plants don't use watts. They use photons....preferably measured in PAR micromoles or PAR watts.

 

[Integrum Stultus]

But I'm gonna side with you as I know you and I don't know chronic what's-his-nuts. Plus when someone says "dropping science", "master grower" and then follows it up with "how many watts your plants need" I start to chuckle as you can't plug your plants into the wall. Plants don't use watts. They use photons....preferably measured in PAR micromoles or PAR watts.

At least one other grower has formed the same opinion as I have with the information available to ourselves as hobbyists.. And knows Im not here spreading fallacies. Rather I look to lend a helping hand thru sharing things, knowledge, techniques and trying to learn.

 

[Integrum Stultus]

Well I'm using a 8 cob Vero 29 right now with 4 4000k and 4 1750k (HPS killer) chips.
Not a fair comparison as my system blows the shit out of any 1000w HID on the market.
But if you were to grow two side by side under aforementioned conditions you would definitely yield higher on the one with recommended nutrient dosage. Wouldn't matter if you used my system, your system or a flashlight strapped to a gerbils back. Proper nutrient dosage would produce better results.

Those Vero chips can handle 100 watt's each can't they? Why are you only running 25? And what can you tell me about spectrums? I know the 3k range is good for flowering and that 4k-5k is hood for vegging but why are you using 1750k chips? School me on COBs and COB set-ups Jimmy..