Do you use Real Growers Recharge?

[Dankman_420]

Your really not saying that you know more than Scotty Real are you ? Seriously

 

[Finesse69]

I appreciate both of your opinions and they've both valueable information! sorry to start this dispute... Let's just say I got good information from both of you and let's get back to some happy growing! No need to argue your both experienced growers with different methods doesn't mean anyone is wrong! Thanks again guys it was very much appreciated

 

[Emilya Green]

Your really not saying that you know more than Scotty Real are you ? Seriously

Of course I am, seriously. I have been involved in growing this weed for most of my life. He is simply trying to market his product. He probably recommends adding it to your breakfast cereal too. He knows more about what is in his product, but I have practical real world knowledge in how his product works while growing cannabis and I totally understand the science behind it. It is not rocket science you know. What super secret details do you think Mr. Recharge knows that he isn't telling us? Have you studied what happens to the organic feeding cycle when the system is given a bioavailable nutrient? I have, and I can tell you without a doubt that it stops.

 

[TorturedSoul]

There is a misconception out there that just having what are known as beneficial bacteria in your soil, is a good thing, and should be your goal in applying RGR. You have asked the right question though, just what do those microbes do when and if they hit a soil that is not minerally enhanced? The answer is, they die. They provide nothing to the grow simply by being there and their deaths contribute nothing either. Unless you are growing organically, without nutes from a bottle or a bag, putting microbes in a grow is just a waste of time and money. Them being there is not enhancing the grow in any way. Especially with MegaCrop, where the Vegan Amino Chelated nutrients take over the feeding cycle, the microbes will be ignored for the most part.

Does that mean it's pointless and a waste of money to buy the Real Growers' Recharge and Grow Dots bundle?

 

[Keffka]

Does that mean it's pointless and a waste of money to buy the Real Growers' Recharge and Grow Dots bundle?

Not necessarily. It’s only pointless if you’re in a synthetic grow or a grow where you’re using chelated nutrients*. Microbes, beneficial bacteria, etc. are meant to help the plant feed itself by breaking down nutrients and making them available to the plant as the plant requests them. They’re doing the chelating naturally. It’s more intricate than this but that’s the simple answer.

Chelated nutrients and most synthetic growing styles deliver nutrients directly to the plant, bypassing the need for any sort of microbes or beneficials. Adding recharge and other beneficials to this method is extremely wasteful and unnecessary since you’re skipping all the processes they’re meant to be doing and likely have an environment incredibly hostile to said microbes.

Of course most of these companies will figure out a way to song and dance their way around this and try to sell you on why you should still use their product even though you have zero actual need for it.

*Unless your grow is fully organic (no chelates, no acids) and based on the soil food web principles you don’t need recharge and all the other fancy microbes and beneficials. You’re literally just flushing money down the drain. Even still in my own organic grow I would shy away from most of these products. It doesn’t take much to upset the balance or even kill off the entire microbial community. You’re much better off just cooking up a good, diverse organic mix and letting nature do its thing. All the other stuff is just extra and you can really go without it (except myco)

In regard to Recharge specifically, it should be viewed as a compost tea. If you don’t have the time or equipment to create your own AACT then this is a decent substitute. However, I highly recommend one learns to create their own AACTs. For the same price as a bag of recharge you could buy all the things you need to make endless compost teas yourself.

 

[safeman]

there is a product called Myco_Chum which also has molasses in it -- have used both- prefer Myco-chum (believe companies name is Plant Revolutions - maker of Great White, Orca, King Crab, ect)

 

[Keffka]

there is a product called Myco_Chum which also has molasses in it -- have used both- prefer Myco-chum (believe companies name is Plant Revolutions - maker of Great White, Orca, King Crab, ect)

I like Great white a lot but I grow fully organic.

Myco is a great product for organic, but is easily killed off. The moment you put Phosphorus into your medium you lose it. It takes weeks to establish and seconds to lose. If you’re growing fully organic myco is amazing and will really amp up your results. If you’re growing synthetic or with chelates you’re just wasting money as you’re repeatedly killing it off before it establishes.

If synthetic, You could get similar effects with just a bit of blackstrap molasses. It’s the sugars in the molasses that you’re seeing results from when growing synthetically. You’re skipping the microbe and plant processes (photosynthesis) and just delivering sugars directly.

However, as an organic grower I cant speak highly enough of myco. I roll my seeds in myco, put it in my initial planting hole and dust my root ball on first transplant with it. I would recommend Myco of any kind over Recharge for every single organic grower out there.

 

[TorturedSoul]

Not necessarily. It’s only pointless if you’re in a synthetic grow or a grow where you’re using chelated nutrients*. Microbes, beneficial bacteria, etc. are meant to help the plant feed itself by breaking down nutrients and making them available to the plant as the plant requests them. They’re doing the chelating naturally. It’s more intricate than this but that’s the simple answer.

Chelated nutrients and most synthetic growing styles deliver nutrients directly to the plant, bypassing the need for any sort of microbes or beneficials. Adding recharge and other beneficials to this method is extremely wasteful and unnecessary since you’re skipping all the processes they’re meant to be doing and likely have an environment incredibly hostile to said microbes.

Of course most of these companies will figure out a way to song and dance their way around this and try to sell you on why you should still use their product even though you have zero actual need for it.

*Unless your grow is fully organic (no chelates, no acids) and based on the soil food web principles you don’t need recharge and all the other fancy microbes and beneficials. You’re literally just flushing money down the drain. Even still in my own organic grow I would shy away from most of these products. It doesn’t take much to upset the balance or even kill off the entire microbial community. You’re much better off just cooking up a good, diverse organic mix and letting nature do its thing. All the other stuff is just extra and you can really go without it (except myco)

In regard to Recharge specifically, it should be viewed as a compost tea. If you don’t have the time or equipment to create your own AACT then this is a decent substitute. However, I highly recommend one learns to create their own AACTs. For the same price as a bag of recharge you could buy all the things you need to make endless compost teas yourself.

States right on their website that the Grow Dots product is salt-based, and intended for inert, soiless media (they even mention perlite hempy).

 

[Keffka]

States right on their website that the Grow Dots product is salt-based, and intended for inert, soiless media (they even mention perlite hempy).

Recharge and grow dots are two separate products. Grow dots are a plant fertilizer, recharge is a microbial product. Grow dots as they say are meant for an inert/salt-based environment where they provide the nutrition directly to the plant, not microbes.

The irony of providing a microbial product with a salt-based plant fertilizer intended for an inert medium in a package together makes me chuckle and is everything wrong with the growing industry.

Edit: I reread your initial comment. The bundle isn’t worth it unless there’s some killer discount associated with it. The two products together don’t make very much sense. Using them together is a large waste of money and resources. I was speaking on Recharge itself originally, not so much the grow dots bundle, my bad.

 

[safeman]

I like Great white a lot but I grow fully organic.

Myco is a great product for organic, but is easily killed off. The moment you put Phosphorus into your medium you lose it. It takes weeks to establish and seconds to lose. If you’re growing fully organic myco is amazing and will really amp up your results. If you’re growing synthetic or with chelates you’re just wasting money as you’re repeatedly killing it off before it establishes.

If synthetic, You could get similar effects with just a bit of blackstrap molasses. It’s the sugars in the molasses that you’re seeing results from when growing synthetically. You’re skipping the microbe and plant processes (photosynthesis) and just delivering sugars directly.

However, as an organic grower I cant speak highly enough of myco. I roll my seeds in myco, put it in my initial planting hole and dust my root ball on first transplant with it. I would recommend Myco of any kind over Recharge for every single organic grower out there.

I agree with you about myco products can't be beat. for sweetener I use "FOOP" (OrganicBioSciences) has 8 different organic sweeteners. Also check out this new product "Miicrobial Mass" by MIM Horticulture (got it free from a nutrient store) owner said this stuff really works it improved his yields. ect this unlocks Phosphours and Iron to Boost yields, There is also a company that uses Myco as a base for their whole line (Elemental Nutrients)(base + veg/flower myco

 

[TorturedSoul]

Edit: I reread your initial comment. The bundle isn’t worth it unless there’s some killer discount associated with it. The two products together don’t make very much sense. Using them together is a large waste of money and resources. I was speaking on Recharge itself originally, not so much the grow dots bundle, my bad.

Okay, cool. I can save money by buying the "sample packs" of just the Grow Dots, then. Thanks.

 

[Nunyabiz]

Personally I use Rootwise Microbe Complete for veg then Rootwise Biophos just prior to flower.
I then feed the worms in the pot Craft Blend which they eat and turn into really good Unicorn Poop.
I also top dress with Bokashi every couple weeks to help with breaking down of the suppliments.
I will also add some probiotics in the form of Thrive which is basically LAB made from organic Kefir.

 

[safeman]

I like Great white a lot but I grow fully organic.

Myco is a great product for organic, but is easily killed off. The moment you put Phosphorus into your medium you lose it. It takes weeks to establish and seconds to lose. If you’re growing fully organic myco is amazing and will really amp up your results. If you’re growing synthetic or with chelates you’re just wasting money as you’re repeatedly killing it off before it establishes.

If synthetic, You could get similar effects with just a bit of blackstrap molasses. It’s the sugars in the molasses that you’re seeing results from when growing synthetically. You’re skipping the microbe and plant processes (photosynthesis) and just delivering sugars directly.

However, as an organic grower I cant speak highly enough of myco. I roll my seeds in myco, put it in my initial planting hole and dust my root ball on first transplant with it. I would recommend Myco of any kind over Recharge for every single organic grower out there.

what about folks that use chemical boosters as a addmentent with their organic feeding ? (Big Bud (Advanced Nutrient) Massive Bloom (GreenPlanet) and somewhat new company Soil Balance" for a true terp/bud builder (mixing can get be confusion) product has won a "cup" few year back

 

[Keffka]

what about folks that use chemical boosters as a addmentent with their organic feeding ? (Big Bud (Advanced Nutrient) Massive Bloom (GreenPlanet) and somewhat new company Soil Balance" for a true terp/bud builder (mixing can get be confusion) product has won a "cup" few year back

Without looking up those specific products themselves I will break down some commonly misunderstood stuff. If they don’t contain acids or chelates then they’re likely ok, however you have to be extremely careful as it is very easy to upset the balance in a truly organic environment.

“Organic” is a loosely used term that doesn’t have a specific meaning by itself very often, especially in growing.

You can grow “organic” on technicalities. This means you’re using “OMRI” certified stuff and are meeting the bare minimum requirement to be considered “organic” by the federal definition. This is like buying organic produce from Walmart. It’s not great, it’s not much different than the other stuff, and it’s pretty substandard. You’re not growing organically with nature, you’re just growing synthetically but with organic inputs.

This usually looks like people using lots of bottled “organic” nutrients that contain organic acids and chelates. I say this is no different than synthetic because that’s the exact same thing you do with synthetic growing. You dictate to the plant what nutrients it’s getting, when, and you use chemicals/acids to force the plant to take what you’re giving it. This is also known as soup style in a lot of circles. It’s not an organic mindset. Growing like this, it would be acceptable to use the products you mentioned. You’re already missing out on a lot of the benefits and qualities of true organic growing because you’re still using synthetic methods and ideas to force organic inputs into your plants. You’re still bypassing the microbes, myco, and everything else, so it doesn’t matter what you’re putting in the soil. So sure, you may find use for stuff like that and may even notice they’re beneficial.

Now growing truly organic doesn’t involve OMRI labels or meeting some federal definition. Growing truly organic means growing as nature intended, with the soil food web. You’ll see this called LOS or TLO, some times you’ll see no-till, they all fall under this soil food web umbrella.

You are no longer feeding the plant in this method. You are feeding the soil. The trillions of bacteria, microbes, myco, etc that are in the soil are who you’re feeding. The plant itself literally links up with the myco and microbes and starts sending signals to them in the soil telling them what nutrients it wants when it wants them. The microbes get to work providing those nutrients to the plant as it requests them. In this method you are super concerned with maintaining balance. You want your soil food web in harmony. You want the bacteria and fungi working together to provide to the plant. This requires balance. The microbes themselves are the ones that are chelating nutrients and delivering it to the plant, not the chemicals. So in this environment that you’ve balanced any sort of outside chemical, acid, chelate, etc that is added will throw the entire system out of wack if you’re not extremely careful and diligent.

It’s called a soil food web because the web is interdependent. Everyone has a job to do and an environment they do it in. Throwing a synthetic or synthetic minded input into this environment displaces members of the web leaving them without a job and a home. This leads to a rapid decline and forces the grower into having to be the soil food web themselves and feed the plant directly the rest of the grow. You’ve killed off the life and made it inhospitable for its return.

When you grow with a soil food web, truly organically, you don’t need bloom boosters or terp enhancers. You will achieve quality that is far and away better than any chemical can provide, and if you’re balanced properly your yields will be equally impressive.

This method is the only way your plant can reach its maximum genetic potential (currently). Every plant/strain has a genetic max potential. How big it will get and how strong/potent it will be. To reach this max potential you need a balanced environment that is hospitable to life. For example, the bacteria responsible for root hairs, and trichomes are in the seeds. The second the seed begins germinating these bacteria jump out into the surrounding environment. If the environment they jump out into is a paper towel, glass of water, or an inert medium, they’re lost forever. Generations of bacteria responsible for some of the most desirable effects need a hospitable environment to jump into and if this environment is filled with acids or crystals they’ll die off. That’s just the first hours of growing, and this is just one example.

This is a light breakdown of it without getting really deep and technical. There’s a boatload of books, videos, resources, etc devoted to this information but it isn’t widely taught on purpose. With these methods multiple farmers such as Gabe Brown have shown they can grow just as much as synthetic growers at a greater profit with a much healthier ecosystem.

 

[safeman]

Without looking up those specific products themselves I will break down some commonly misunderstood stuff. If they don’t contain acids or chelates then they’re likely ok, however you have to be extremely careful as it is very easy to upset the balance in a truly organic environment.

“Organic” is a loosely used term that doesn’t have a specific meaning by itself very often, especially in growing.

You can grow “organic” on technicalities. This means you’re using “OMRI” certified stuff and are meeting the bare minimum requirement to be considered “organic” by the federal definition. This is like buying organic produce from Walmart. It’s not great, it’s not much different than the other stuff, and it’s pretty substandard. You’re not growing organically with nature, you’re just growing synthetically but with organic inputs.

This usually looks like people using lots of bottled “organic” nutrients that contain organic acids and chelates. I say this is no different than synthetic because that’s the exact same thing you do with synthetic growing. You dictate to the plant what nutrients it’s getting, when, and you use chemicals/acids to force the plant to take what you’re giving it. This is also known as soup style in a lot of circles. It’s not an organic mindset. Growing like this, it would be acceptable to use the products you mentioned. You’re already missing out on a lot of the benefits and qualities of true organic growing because you’re still using synthetic methods and ideas to force organic inputs into your plants. You’re still bypassing the microbes, myco, and everything else, so it doesn’t matter what you’re putting in the soil. So sure, you may find use for stuff like that and may even notice they’re beneficial.

Now growing truly organic doesn’t involve OMRI labels or meeting some federal definition. Growing truly organic means growing as nature intended, with the soil food web. You’ll see this called LOS or TLO, some times you’ll see no-till, they all fall under this soil food web umbrella.

You are no longer feeding the plant in this method. You are feeding the soil. The trillions of bacteria, microbes, myco, etc that are in the soil are who you’re feeding. The plant itself literally links up with the myco and microbes and starts sending signals to them in the soil telling them what nutrients it wants when it wants them. The microbes get to work providing those nutrients to the plant as it requests them. In this method you are super concerned with maintaining balance. You want your soil food web in harmony. You want the bacteria and fungi working together to provide to the plant. This requires balance. The microbes themselves are the ones that are chelating nutrients and delivering it to the plant, not the chemicals. So in this environment that you’ve balanced any sort of outside chemical, acid, chelate, etc that is added will throw the entire system out of wack if you’re not extremely careful and diligent.

It’s called a soil food web because the web is interdependent. Everyone has a job to do and an environment they do it in. Throwing a synthetic or synthetic minded input into this environment displaces members of the web leaving them without a job and a home. This leads to a rapid decline and forces the grower into having to be the soil food web themselves and feed the plant directly the rest of the grow. You’ve killed off the life and made it inhospitable for its return.

When you grow with a soil food web, truly organically, you don’t need bloom boosters or terp enhancers. You will achieve quality that is far and away better than any chemical can provide, and if you’re balanced properly your yields will be equally impressive.

This method is the only way your plant can reach its maximum genetic potential (currently). Every plant/strain has a genetic max potential. How big it will get and how strong/potent it will be. To reach this max potential you need a balanced environment that is hospitable to life. For example, the bacteria responsible for root hairs, and trichomes are in the seeds. The second the seed begins germinating these bacteria jump out into the surrounding environment. If the environment they jump out into is a paper towel, glass of water, or an inert medium, they’re lost forever. Generations of bacteria responsible for some of the most desirable effects need a hospitable environment to jump into and if this environment is filled with acids or crystals they’ll die off. That’s just the first hours of growing, and this is just one example.

This is a light breakdown of it without getting really deep and technical. There’s a boatload of books, videos, resources, etc devoted to this information but it isn’t widely taught on purpose. With these methods multiple farmers such as Gabe Brown have shown they can grow just as much as synthetic growers at a greater profit with a much healthier ecosystem.

1) so of one uses organic's thru grow and introduces a few additives it "cancel's out all microbial life - SO for perfect microbial health no chemical or chelated nutrients So just using Triacontional for a plant can trep's would be OK ? what about these Aurora Innovations (bet there are chemical) Lotus Nutrients (chelated) NO use ? but Soil Balance is a totally organic terpene enhancement

 

[Keffka]

1) so of one uses organic's thru grow and introduces a few additives it "cancel's out all microbial life - nutrients

Pretty much. It would be similar to growing out your harvest but then screwing up your dry and cure. You’ve done a lot of work but have negated most of it with one or two bad choices. You can still have a harvest but its quality will suffer greatly.

SO for perfect microbial health no chemical or chelated

Correct. All of the processes and nutrients the different fertilizers, chemicals, etc. are attempting to replicate already occur naturally. The microbes are chelators, breaking down organic matter and making the nutrients from that organic matter available to the plants. These are things that happen when the soil food web is balanced and working properly.

So just using Triacontional for a plant can trep's would be OK ?

It’s all about the labels/SDS. I would have to see a specific product to know what is in it to know how it would impact the soil. I don’t care about OMRI or bold letters stating “not for organic use”, they don’t mean much to me. It’s what’s inside the product that matters. From what I’ve read, Triacontional by itself would likely be okay. It would be a lot better if you could find it in its naturally occurring state but that may degrade its ability. You’ve piqued my interest in it though so I’ll be searching around to see if I can find what it naturally occurs in and see if I can use it as an amendment.

Using pure Triacontional, I would run a few controls just to make sure since it could potentially throw off the balance of the soil food web and the balance is the most important part. Now if it was in a product with chelators or Organic acids like Fulvic or Humic then I would advise against it since those can seriously throw the balance off, but if you’re growing soup style already then you may as well.

what about these Aurora Innovations (bet there are chemical) Lotus Nutrients (chelated) NO use ? but Soil Balance is a totally organic terpene enhancement

Aurora Innovations - So they’ve got quite a few different products it seems. The one that jumps out at me right away is Roots Organic and gives me a good point to make. Some of their products belong in soup style since they’ve got organic acids, like their terp teas. Reading the labels on all of the products is important. However, they do offer stuff like Seabird Guano and soft rock phosphate which can be a bit tougher to find. I would use Seabird Guano and SRP. Now the thing about that is, their prices can be high. It’s likely because of their pretty packaging and emphasis on cannabis but you can source seabird guano for cheaper than they offer, at your local nursery. This goes for most of the cannabis products.

A lot of cannabis specific products have competitors that can be found for much cheaper if you go to a nursery or purchase one not marketed toward Cannabis. For example, Roots Organic has some good stuff but you pay a markup/premium for their packaging and marketing toward cannabis.

Lotus Nutrients - You got it! Chelated nutrients are a no go for soil food web, plus it appears they’ve also included fulvic/Humic acids in their products as well, which is again something we don’t want. I’ll reemphasize the labels/SDS’. If we look at a product and see it’s got chelators and/or Organic Acids like Fulvic and Humic, we don’t want that in LOS. Those chelators and acids will throw off our balance. You’ll see/hear me talk about balance constantly when it comes to LOS, because it’s the most important part. Without the balance, our microbes can’t function properly and our grow will crash quickly.

I’m not sure what product Soil Balance is that you’re referring to.. I just keep getting articles dedicated to the importance of soil balance lol. If you could give me a more specific name or a link I could check it out.

 

[safeman]

Pretty much. It would be similar to growing out your harvest but then screwing up your dry and cure. You’ve done a lot of work but have negated most of it with one or two bad choices. You can still have a harvest but its quality will suffer greatly.



Correct. All of the processes and nutrients the different fertilizers, chemicals, etc. are attempting to replicate already occur naturally. The microbes are chelators, breaking down organic matter and making the nutrients from that organic matter available to the plants. These are things that happen when the soil food web is balanced and working properly.



It’s all about the labels/SDS. I would have to see a specific product to know what is in it to know how it would impact the soil. I don’t care about OMRI or bold letters stating “not for organic use”, they don’t mean much to me. It’s what’s inside the product that matters. From what I’ve read, Triacontional by itself would likely be okay. It would be a lot better if you could find it in its naturally occurring state but that may degrade its ability. You’ve piqued my interest in it though so I’ll be searching around to see if I can find what it naturally occurs in and see if I can use it as an amendment.

Using pure Triacontional, I would run a few controls just to make sure since it could potentially throw off the balance of the soil food web and the balance is the most important part. Now if it was in a product with chelators or Organic acids like Fulvic or Humic then I would advise against it since those can seriously throw the balance off, but if you’re growing soup style already then you may as well.




Aurora Innovations - So they’ve got quite a few different products it seems. The one that jumps out at me right away is Roots Organic and gives me a good point to make. Some of their products belong in soup style since they’ve got organic acids, like their terp teas. Reading the labels on all of the products is important. However, they do offer stuff like Seabird Guano and soft rock phosphate which can be a bit tougher to find. I would use Seabird Guano and SRP. Now the thing about that is, their prices can be high. It’s likely because of their pretty packaging and emphasis on cannabis but you can source seabird guano for cheaper than they offer, at your local nursery. This goes for most of the cannabis products.

A lot of cannabis specific products have competitors that can be found for much cheaper if you go to a nursery or purchase one not marketed toward Cannabis. For example, Roots Organic has some good stuff but you pay a markup/premium for their packaging and marketing toward cannabis.

Lotus Nutrients - You got it! Chelated nutrients are a no go for soil food web, plus it appears they’ve also included fulvic/Humic acids in their products as well, which is again something we don’t want. I’ll reemphasize the labels/SDS’. If we look at a product and see it’s got chelators and/or Organic Acids like Fulvic and Humic, we don’t want that in LOS. Those chelators and acids will throw off our balance. You’ll see/hear me talk about balance constantly when it comes to LOS, because it’s the most important part. Without the balance, our microbes can’t function properly and our grow will crash quickly.

I’m not sure what product Soil Balance is that you’re referring to.. I just keep getting articles dedicated to the importance of soil balance lol. If you could give me a more specific name or a link I could check it out.

Great information _ have used many nutrient lines thru the years (Humbolt County's Own (their Deep Breath & G-10 are great), Advanced Nutrients, Elemental nutrients (myco based 2 part) Alaska nutrients (fish Fert - their More Bloom and also kelp) Seems like mostly all have humic/Fulvic acids - Budswell is another nutrient (old line + a flower one) Dyna Gro line , Cx Horticulture other lines -- There are many more tried At present I use Hygrozyme - Some Plant Revolutions products (myco-chum (simmular to re-charge) ,myco, Orca, ect) Soil Balance is by Kind Roots (organic solutions consultants) it's a plant and soil probiotics-- Please give your take on this "stuff" Question : what are you using at present ? maybe a Living Soil is the answer _ really interested in that MIIM product (test grow at present). have use both "dry" and "liquid" Rock Nutrients (Auroa) in the past - Also have these _Terpinator and Purpinator - Any response is welcome - Have way to many other lines I have used but not listed (hey 420 ! a product review position still open (here we go again))

 

[Keffka]

Great information _ have used many nutrient lines thru the years (Humbolt County's Own (their Deep Breath & G-10 are great), Advanced Nutrients, Elemental nutrients (myco based 2 part) Alaska nutrients (fish Fert - their More Bloom and also kelp) Seems like mostly all have humic/Fulvic acids - Budswell is another nutrient (old line + a flower one) Dyna Gro line , Cx Horticulture other lines -- There are many more tried At present I use Hygrozyme - Some Plant Revolutions products (myco-chum (simmular to re-charge) ,myco, Orca, ect) Soil Balance is by Kind Roots (organic solutions consultants) it's a plant and soil probiotics-- Please give your take on this "stuff" Question : what are you using at present ? maybe a Living Soil is the answer _ really interested in that MIIM product (test grow at present). have use both "dry" and "liquid" Rock Nutrients (Auroa) in the past - Also have these _Terpinator and Purpinator - Any response is welcome - Have way to many other lines I have used but not listed (hey 420 ! a product review position still open (here we go again))

The majority of nutrient lines will have chelators and/or organic acids. The reasons for this are pretty straightforward. The chelators and organic acids making nutrients available to the plant at such high levels it’s almost like shoving a feeding tube into the plant and pumping the nutrients directly into it. This has multiple commercial benefits. You’ll see results from it. You’ll also be locked into using those products or some other form of similar nutrient delivery. Your plants won’t survive without it once it’s begun. So you’ve got a situation where you use their product, your plants look great and produce well, or you don’t use it and they die/fail. This is the dream situation for pharmaceutical producers and anyone else looking to make a profit. Your plants literally get hooked on to the products and die without them.

As container growers this is temporary and is easy to not overthink. However, for those using perpetual systems like recycling soils, or those with gardens or even bigger, farms, stuff goes sideways pretty quick. You quickly become dependent on those same fertilizers but in greater quantities until eventually the nutrient lines aren’t even enough to keep your plants alive and the soil needs to be rejuvenated in some way. This shouldn’t happen in a healthy soil. A healthy soil should get better with age and use, not worse. This overuse of fertilizers also leads to the pests and diseases situation we now find ourselves in, but that’s a whole other topic too lol.

When it comes to cannabis (and many, possibly every other plant), every strain has a preferred bacteria type and ratio. Each one prefers specific bacteria in specific ratios and it varies from strain to strain. So if we reuse our soil to grow a specific strain over and over, our soil will get better and better. As the preferred bacteria establishes itself in the ratios the strain prefers the efficiency and quality of the grow will increase. So with this knowledge, to me the best method would be to go with LOS. With LOS we can recycle our soils again and again while maintaining the preferred balance for those strains. As we recycle our LOS our grows perform better and faster while saving a lot of money and resources.

Personally I use LOS.. I am in the process now of trying to organize my soils into strain specifics. However this is a journey because I also have to find the strains I am going to focus in on as well, find mothers, cut clones, run controls, etc. LOS can be as simple or as complex as you want and gives me a lot of flexibility. Plus if you want you can just skip all of the bs, load up a 15 gallon pot with some decent potting soil, a little perlite, myco, and some EWC and all you’ll need is water for the whole grow.


Hygrozyme - This sounds like a pretty good product. Enzymes always have a place in LOS and this specific formulation looks like it would be pretty beneficial. It will speed up the breakdown of organic matter making it easier for the microbes, plus it would likely help accelerate compost teas as well. As always I would exercise caution to make sure the increase in decomp doesn’t throw off the balance, I.e. more sugars equal more microbes which could dissuade myco growth. While that’s unlikely to happen it’s something to be aware of. In a regular non LOS grow enzymes would be welcome always, anything you can do to speed up processes is helpful.

Myco, orca, etc. - I love myco.. if you’re growing organic myco is absolutely critical. Without it you’re going to struggle to produce on the higher end and will likely have paltry results. Myco can essentially be thought of as the conductor of your soil environment. They coordinate and direct much of the microbial environment to the benefit of the plant while maintaining a communication link with the plant.

I am not sold on Mycos benefit in synthetic growing. The presence of available P discourages myco growth and will suppress its abilities. So if we’re pouring available P into our medium, the myco isn’t going to do much of anything if it even hangs around. Myco really shines in flower which ironically is when synthetic growers really start pouring on the P, so right when myco is needed most, it’s being suppressed.

Soil Balance - I can’t get a clear shot of the ingredients on the package however from what I can tell it looks like a decent product. It appears to be mainly strains of microbes which is a good segue. I mentioned previously about genetic max potential and how there are specific bacteria that impact this and that those bacteria are in the seeds. Those bacteria have been chosen over the strains evolution and they are what helps your plant have disease resistance, it’s root hair growth, as well as the oils, terpenes, trichomes, flavonoids, etc.

If you look at the soil balance claims and ingredients you can see this. Their product is providing 62 different microbes that will help to increase oils, terpenes, etc. These are the same microbes that I am referring to when I say each strain has specific bacteria in specific ratios that impact its quality. This product is essentially shotgun blasting those same bacteria. However because each strain prefers different microbes at different ratios this product while effective can only be so effective before there’s a drop off.

If you’ve been dialing in your strain specific LOS soils then you wouldn’t want to use this product. You’ll throw off your ratios and environment you’ve been cultivating. However, if you’re not dialing in strain specific soils, this is a great product that could have some good benefits. If you’re running synthetic, you could see some improvement but it would be costly because you’d have to keep using the product since the microbes would be dying so often. However if you’re running organic you would probably see even better results since you have a more microbe friendly environment.

All around it’s actually a pretty decent product as well that would have a sizable effect depending on what method you were growing with. Anyone growing organically would likely benefit greatly from it if they’re not dialing in LOS.

Terpinator/Purpinator - I can’t get a clear read on the ingredients for these, they’re claiming proprietary. However, reading through their site they claim it’s safe to use and won’t harm microbial populations, but will in fact improve them due to sulfates in their mix, which is possible. They’ve been around long enough, and that’s a bold claim to make so I lean toward it being okay but as always recommend trying it out on one or two plants before hitting everything. It’s a lot easier to dump a few gallons of soil versus a whole crop.

MIIM - I really like the look of this one. This is the newer generation products of beneficial bacteria and looks very promising. They’ve begun to identify the specific bacteria that perform the specific roles I was talking about in regard to the soil food web. Advances like this one will bring synthetics closer to organic, and will speed up organic.

 

[safeman]

The majority of nutrient lines will have chelators and/or organic acids. The reasons for this are pretty straightforward. The chelators and organic acids making nutrients available to the plant at such high levels it’s almost like shoving a feeding tube into the plant and pumping the nutrients directly into it. This has multiple commercial benefits. You’ll see results from it. You’ll also be locked into using those products or some other form of similar nutrient delivery. Your plants won’t survive without it once it’s begun. So you’ve got a situation where you use their product, your plants look great and produce well, or you don’t use it and they die/fail. This is the dream situation for pharmaceutical producers and anyone else looking to make a profit. Your plants literally get hooked on to the products and die without them.

As container growers this is temporary and is easy to not overthink. However, for those using perpetual systems like recycling soils, or those with gardens or even bigger, farms, stuff goes sideways pretty quick. You quickly become dependent on those same fertilizers but in greater quantities until eventually the nutrient lines aren’t even enough to keep your plants alive and the soil needs to be rejuvenated in some way. This shouldn’t happen in a healthy soil. A healthy soil should get better with age and use, not worse. This overuse of fertilizers also leads to the pests and diseases situation we now find ourselves in, but that’s a whole other topic too lol.

When it comes to cannabis (and many, possibly every other plant), every strain has a preferred bacteria type and ratio. Each one prefers specific bacteria in specific ratios and it varies from strain to strain. So if we reuse our soil to grow a specific strain over and over, our soil will get better and better. As the preferred bacteria establishes itself in the ratios the strain prefers the efficiency and quality of the grow will increase. So with this knowledge, to me the best method would be to go with LOS. With LOS we can recycle our soils again and again while maintaining the preferred balance for those strains. As we recycle our LOS our grows perform better and faster while saving a lot of money and resources.

Personally I use LOS.. I am in the process now of trying to organize my soils into strain specifics. However this is a journey because I also have to find the strains I am going to focus in on as well, find mothers, cut clones, run controls, etc. LOS can be as simple or as complex as you want and gives me a lot of flexibility. Plus if you want you can just skip all of the bs, load up a 15 gallon pot with some decent potting soil, a little perlite, myco, and some EWC and all you’ll need is water for the whole grow.


Hygrozyme - This sounds like a pretty good product. Enzymes always have a place in LOS and this specific formulation looks like it would be pretty beneficial. It will speed up the breakdown of organic matter making it easier for the microbes, plus it would likely help accelerate compost teas as well. As always I would exercise caution to make sure the increase in decomp doesn’t throw off the balance, I.e. more sugars equal more microbes which could dissuade myco growth. While that’s unlikely to happen it’s something to be aware of. In a regular non LOS grow enzymes would be welcome always, anything you can do to speed up processes is helpful.

Myco, orca, etc. - I love myco.. if you’re growing organic myco is absolutely critical. Without it you’re going to struggle to produce on the higher end and will likely have paltry results. Myco can essentially be thought of as the conductor of your soil environment. They coordinate and direct much of the microbial environment to the benefit of the plant while maintaining a communication link with the plant.

I am not sold on Mycos benefit in synthetic growing. The presence of available P discourages myco growth and will suppress its abilities. So if we’re pouring available P into our medium, the myco isn’t going to do much of anything if it even hangs around. Myco really shines in flower which ironically is when synthetic growers really start pouring on the P, so right when myco is needed most, it’s being suppressed.

Soil Balance - I can’t get a clear shot of the ingredients on the package however from what I can tell it looks like a decent product. It appears to be mainly strains of microbes which is a good segue. I mentioned previously about genetic max potential and how there are specific bacteria that impact this and that those bacteria are in the seeds. Those bacteria have been chosen over the strains evolution and they are what helps your plant have disease resistance, it’s root hair growth, as well as the oils, terpenes, trichomes, flavonoids, etc.

If you look at the soil balance claims and ingredients you can see this. Their product is providing 62 different microbes that will help to increase oils, terpenes, etc. These are the same microbes that I am referring to when I say each strain has specific bacteria in specific ratios that impact its quality. This product is essentially shotgun blasting those same bacteria. However because each strain prefers different microbes at different ratios this product while effective can only be so effective before there’s a drop off.

If you’ve been dialing in your strain specific LOS soils then you wouldn’t want to use this product. You’ll throw off your ratios and environment you’ve been cultivating. However, if you’re not dialing in strain specific soils, this is a great product that could have some good benefits. If you’re running synthetic, you could see some improvement but it would be costly because you’d have to keep using the product since the microbes would be dying so often. However if you’re running organic you would probably see even better results since you have a more microbe friendly environment.

All around it’s actually a pretty decent product as well that would have a sizable effect depending on what method you were growing with. Anyone growing organically would likely benefit greatly from it if they’re not dialing in LOS.

Terpinator/Purpinator - I can’t get a clear read on the ingredients for these, they’re claiming proprietary. However, reading through their site they claim it’s safe to use and won’t harm microbial populations, but will in fact improve them due to sulfates in their mix, which is possible. They’ve been around long enough, and that’s a bold claim to make so I lean toward it being okay but as always recommend trying it out on one or two plants before hitting everything. It’s a lot easier to dump a few gallons of soil versus a whole crop.

MIIM - I really like the look of this one. This is the newer generation products of beneficial bacteria and looks very promising. They’ve begun to identify the specific bacteria that perform the specific roles I was talking about in regard to the soil food web. Advances like this one will bring synthetics closer to organic, and will speed up organic.

Again thanks for you knowledge _ what type of nutrients do you use ? (if any) (maybe super soil ?) have aew more nutrients I have used - will get back to you _ you can be my "book of knowledge" Thanks

 

[safeman]

Sorry LOS is ? Living Organic Soil - if indoor grow instead of 5 gallon pots one should consider a "grow Box" but can see that drainage could be an issue. It's there a book called Living organic Soil ? forget the publisher