Help Please - Advanced LED DS400

C

Chester001

Well-Known Member
My past few grows have been done using a Extreme Flower 120 and a DS100 in a 3'x2' space ... I generally aim to grow two plants and end up w/ three when all seeds sprout and grow well. Recently had the opportunity to buy a DS400 used. It is genuine and lights up like a lighthouse when it's lit. The core print is just a little bigger than my primary space and just right for a couple of 'winter only' grow spaces I have. My current grow is 10 day old autos. They are a little stunted from being under the DS400. Two days ago I removed the DS400 and put the original lights over the plants. The plants responded well. Their leaves lifted and they were visibly less stressed. I started them out w/ just the vegging spectrum and began mixing in red ... they are currently growing under dual spectrum. The change in lights resulted in a 1.5F degree decrease in temperature (84.5F to 83F). My questions are ...

1. Is it just too much light for the space ... about 60 watts per sq ft ?

2. Had I been able to increase ventilation would that have taken care of the problem or is the light just too powerful ?

3. Once the plants have some foliage will the light be able to be used or will it always be just too much light for the space ?

4. Instructions call for 30" above seedlings ... would higher have possibly been better ?

5. Could it be that it was way too much light to use on seedlings ?

6. The fans run whenever the electric is turned on w/ or w/o the LEDs lit ... seems odd ...


I had really expected the light to work well. I have a couple winter spaces that can use the added heat and offer more floor space ... all I need is one successful grow out of this light and it's paid for itself ... I guess what I'm asking is ... is there any way to make a Big Ass LED work in a small space ?


The light was one of the many legitimate used Advanced LED lights available on the used market. It has all the proper labeling ... :thumb:
 
You should be fine with the amount of lighting, and being that you are 30" above seedlings is plenty. I've used a few different types of LED and have had very good results in vegetative always, and I have researched advanced LED and hear good things.

What type of ventilation do you currently have? Do you have fresh air intake or CO2?

If you are getting better luck with the original lighting, my suggestion would be to start your Seedling/Beginning of Veg with your original light until they a bit stronger, and then use your LED's. Post pictures of your light on, hard to capture but try your best, it could've been being sold used for reason too.

I've done an extensive amount of LED research in the past year and have invested in a few different companies, I'd be happy to help with anything I can.

Cheers
 
I'll answer your questions first, then attempt to guess at what is happening.

1. No, You shouldn't reach the saturation point until nearly double that amount of light.
2. This is very likely.
3. Yes, you should be able to use the light, even prior to extended foliage being produced.
4. Possibly, some strains are very picky.
5. Not very likely.
6. I'm not sure how their system is wired internally, worst case is that it gives a small amount of air movement and the fans die a little sooner.

All of this is based off of what you are calling "stunted" growth. During the beginning of the veg stage the plant should stay very short and be less than 6" tall when it is getting it's first through 4th leaf sets. If your plant is taller than that it is receiving too much red light and stretching. This can cause the internode spacing to be elongated and have a weak stem that will very likely collapse under it's own weight. Without proper ventilation, your issues will start with slow growth and progress into mold and mildew and fungus gnats if you are growing in soil. My advise would be to increase the height slightly, increase your air flow and give the plants a few weeks to develop a root system. 8 days is not really enough time to show signs of stunting.
 
Thanks for the input y'all ... I'm a couple days shy of 2 weeks and all three are about 3 days behind ... This is seventh ( 7 ) time I've grown these same seeds in the past year and by this point the leaves are normally wider than the 3 gal pot they are grown in ... so I'm a couple days behind but very healthy ... glad to hear that saturation is a lot higher than 60 watts per foot ... currently growing under a DS100 and an Extreme Flower 120 both from Advanced LED and the lights I've used for 4-5 grows in this space. As for the Big Ass LED I guess I'll trot it out again once I figure out how to better ventilate the area or wait until cooler weather hits Florida and try it again ...

Question ... Can 368 watts of red/blue hot LEDs ever be used closer than 30 inches from the canopy ... my DS100 works well down to about 14" ...
 
I appreciate your assistance ... I'm told that these are 90 degree lens on the Diamond Series LEDs ... from your experience ... how close to the canopy will I be able to keep these lights once the plants are more mature ? I've run the DS100 as close as 14" but this light doesn't seem to be one I'd want to place that close to a plant ...
 
SteveHman tested the new Diamond series before it was released to the public. I believe he is the one that came up wit ht he 30 inches figure, but I could be mistaken. I have not used the Diamond series so I cannot give you 100% info. It varies based on the diode quality, lenses, and drive current. With 90 degree lenses and ~660-700mA drive current I would suggest between 24-32 inches from personal experience.
 
HB... not necessarily associated with this particular thread; nevertheless, when assessing a general chlorophyll A & B PAR representation, Chlorophyll A has a smaller peak than Chlorophyll B in the vegetative range... this represents the plant response at the respective nm, correct? does this also indicate the general need of the plant; that is, during vegetative growth, do plants need less Chlorophyll A than B AND when flowering, do plants need less Chlorophyll B than A?
 
Nirvana Seeds ... 2 Auto Blue Mystics + 1 Northern Light ... Two weeks

6_17a.JPG


6_17b.JPG
 
HB... regarding above query Chlorophyll A and B... when shopping for an LED grow light and considering the number of LED's devoted to Chlorophyll A and B in vegetative and flowering range:

is ideal coverage in the vegetative range more LED's at 430 nm (hit Chlorophyll A) than 460 nm (hit Chlorophyll B)? the same number of LED's? or less 430 nm than 460 nm?

and, in the flowering range, is ideal coverage more LED's at 640 nm (hit Chlorophyll B) than 660 nm (hit Chlorophyll A)? the same number of LED's? or less 640 nm than 660 nm?

thank you in advance
 
Chester... although i would like to get HB's feedback on your plants, for 2 weeks, they 'appear' relatively happy... dont know if HB covered this, but if you are trying a new LED light, the growth will likely be different both above ground and below... HB, is it possible that the LED system is inducing greater/faster initial root growth which is resulting in slightly smaller leaves?
 
Chlorophyll is a vegetative production process. The peaks in red and blue don't directly correlate to a phase of growth. It is more the wavelengths at which those processes perform better. The reasoning for using blue light in veg growth is that it performs other functions in reducing inter nodal lengths, reduced height, chemical transfers. The ratio of Chlorophyll A and B change from plant type and from plant strains. Generally the A to B ratio is between 2 to 1 and 5 to 1. I'm not sure if that fully answers your questions or not but at the least it will give you an idea of what area of research to be looking in.

As for the plants... they look very healthy. I've never messed with any auto's so I'm not sure what they SHOULD look like. I know the NL with stretch nearly triple their height when you change them over to flower. The plant cannot grow more than the root mass can support and lighting can play a major factor in root development.
 
HB ... I'll try to document this grow to help raise awareness of autos ... these are very healthy, just a little small for 2 weeks ... these plants will be lit 20/4 for the next two months and be harvested around mid-August ... I may move the NL outdoors since I'm not impressed w/ the high and my space works best w/ two plants ... thanks all for the input ...
:Namaste:
 
ty HB... to be clear, A to B ratio of associated LED's in vegetative phase would be 2 430nm to 1 460nm (2:1 A to B ratio) AND in flowering, 5 660nm to 1 640nm (5:1 A to B ratio)?
 
SuperFunker said:
ty HB... to be clear, A to B ratio of associated LED's in vegetative phase would be 2 430nm to 1 460nm (2:1 A to B ratio) AND in flowering, 5 660nm to 1 640nm (5:1 A to B ratio)?
Click to expand...

No not at all. Each plant type and or strain can (and usually does) have a different ratio of chlorophyll A to B. This ratio does not change between veg and flower cycles (much). You can influence and change this ratio by the light that you provide to the plant, but until a genetic mutation occurs adjusting the plant to the specific light you are giving it, the plant will not grow at it's optimum ability.

As a panel designer, this is one of the issues we face. Do we go for a generic ratio in the middle to make most plants grow OKAY or do we target an individual species. Likewise, you cannot exclude all other photo-receptors and chemical processes in the mean time.

The link is a very good example on how to take and measure samples of carotenoids. It doesn't give any real useful data, but it does teach procedures.
 
ahhh, yes, which kind of brings my first interaction with you to a full circle; ie, the need for species-specific testing... in particular, cannabis-specific testing... but in the meantime, it seems that spectrum blending with a few white LED's is the most effective means of addressing known and unknown PAR demands... would you recommend 1:2 ratio of cold:warm white light? or something closer to 1:4 of cold:warm?
 
HB... re 6500k cold white LED: i have found one source that indicates an LED PAR peak in the vegetative range at abt 450nm and another source stating a peak at abt 470nm... does this vegetative peak typically vary from one LED brand to another? OR should most 6500k LED's have similar vegetative peaks?
 
For your first question, it really depends on what makes up the rest of the panel. If you are referring to an all white LED panel I would suggest a much much higher warm to cool ratio, somewhere in the 7:1 area. However, I have tested white only in a few different test and have always received better results with a mixture of whites and single color diodes together.

For the second question, the sources and context of those sources would help me give you better information. The spectra of white LEDs do vary from one manufacturer to another. Some use a 455nm blue as a base, some use a 430 and others have used 470's.
 

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