How much perlite?

[Phytoplankton]

Though I usually just use FFOF straight out of the bag, this upcoming grow I’m going to do a couple amendments. How much perlite, % wise, is a good amount? Im
Thinking anround 20-25%. Also going to add some diatomaceous earth for Si, any suggestions? thanks in advance!

 

[SmokingWings]

How much perlite, % wise, is a good amount?

10 to 25% which fits in with your thoughts.

Also going to add some diatomaceous earth for Si, any suggestions?

I looked it up and saw one recommendation for up to 20% which does seem like a lot. But the links seem to indicate that it is hard to overdose the diatomaceous earth.

Maybe put about 5% or bit more diatomaceous earth into the medium while mixing and then once the plants start growing add a bit more diatomaceous earth as a top dressing. Some gardening web sites say to mix a tablespoon or two into a gallon of water and use that to spray the plants and soil surface.

Looking at some of the web sites I noticed that they mentioned that micro-organisms do not extract the silica from the diatomaceous earth. The silica is already available and the plant roots can absorb it as needed to improve cell structure.

 

[Phytoplankton]

Thanks @SmokingWings, I mixed up the soil yesterday, put about 15% perlite in, since FFOF already has some perlite in it, I figure I'm in the 20% range. Also put in 1 1/2 to 2 cups on DE in each 15 gallon bag , for the Si. DE will break down slowly and supply some added Si for the cell walls. Just trying the perlite, by the end a grow sometimes the soil gets slightly compacted.

 

[SmokingWings]

DE will break down slowly and supply some added Si for the cell walls. Just trying the perlite, by the end a grow sometimes the soil gets slightly compacted.

In the past couple of days since you asked the question I have read up about the use of Diatomaceous Earth in gardens of all kinds. It all indicates that the silica in DE is about as broken down or decomposed as it will get. It is pretty much ready to go. This is a different situation than things like Crustacean Meal, Crab Meal or Clam Shell Meal which all require some time in the soils for the microbes to do their thing and help decompose those materials.

Apparently the silica in the Diatomaceous Earth is ready for the plants when applied. Also came across that most decent mineral soils already have a good percentage of silica in them, sometimes as much as 40 percent. This includes clay based soils. Much of this silica comes from particles of sand.

There is silica in Perlite which is a natural ingredient. Perlite is a result of the process of melting stone which has molecules of water trapped in it. Also, Vermiculite has some silica in it.

Biggest gain from using silica or Diatomaceous Earth is for insect control and not necessarily cell strength though cell structure is important. Calcium is also very good for plant cell development and strength.

Without digging way into the research I found that a common source of info on the DE and silica for plants comes from a basic informational work done at the National Pesticide Information Center at Oregon State University in cooperation with the US Environmental Protection Agency. The basic article is:
Diatomaceous Earth General Fact Sheet
*************

I have a bag of DE left over from an earlier battle against annoying Fungus Gnats. I still sprinkle a bit on top of the soil every now and then for old time's sake. But I was very surprised at how thick and strong the stems of my plants got when I started using a powdered calcium & Mag product available from Roots Organic.

 

[Keffka]

calcium is more important when it comes to cell walls and stem strength. Silica’s main benefit comes from improving nutrient uptake and photosynthesis. If your goal is stronger stems and plants then more calcium is what you really want.

If you’re dead set on silica may want to look at calcium silicate.. you’ll get what you’re looking for from the DE and you’ll get the bonus of calcium

 

[Phytoplankton]

I have a bag of DE left over from an earlier battle against annoying Fungus Gnats. I still sprinkle a bit on top of the soil every now and then for old time's sake. But I was very surprised at how thick and strong the stems of my plants got when I started using a powdered calcium & Mag product available from Roots Organic.

Pest control is another reason I add the DE, it worked really well controlling a thrip issue I had. I also add a thin layer on top of the soil.

I kinda view Si in the same vein as chicken soup for a cold, it couldn't hurt!

If you’re dead set on silica may want to look at calcium silicate.. you’ll get what you’re looking for from the DE and you’ll get the bonus of calcium

Ca is not an issue for me, my water is loaded with Ca and Mg, PPM's range from 400 to over 1400 out the tap, with Ca being the major componnent and MG second, depending on which well the water company is drawing from.

My water quality is the reason I have never been able to try coco or hydro. Don't feel like buying an R/O system, several people out where I am have them, and they are forever changing membranes, not only that R/O wastes a lot of water..

 

[SmokingWings]

I kinda view Si in the same vein as chicken soup for a cold, it couldn't hurt!

Know the feeling that you are mentioning.

Just did not want someone who is new to the game wandering by and thinking that silica or Diatomaceous Earth is the answer to "life, the universe and everything" without knowing a bit more.

 

[OGpapa]

Just add more calmag

 

[Keffka]

My water quality is the reason I have never been able to try coco or hydro. Don't feel like buying an R/O system, several people out where I am have them, and they are forever changing membranes, not only that R/O wastes a lot of water.

This is HIGHLY dependent on the type and quality of the RO system you buy. This is also dependent on what you use your water for. The rejected water doesn’t need to just be thrown out. It can be used for a variety of different household or outdoor uses and doesn’t need to just be disposed of. If people are replacing membranes more than every 2-3 years they’re not using the proper system for their environment or decided to go for a cheaper system with lower quality parts.

RO systems are extremely affordable, accessible, and valuable these days if you choose the correct system.

All of that aside, Silica is more meant to reinforce cell walls making them more defensible to biotic and abiotic plant stresses. To truly increase the strength and size of cell walls calcium is what you want. As far as your well water goes, it’s almost impossible to discern what’s making those ppms. Yeah a lot of it could be calcium and magnesium but a lot of it could be heavy or toxic metals. There’s also issues with seasonal shifts leading to greater and different quantities of individual particulates landing/leeching into those wells.

I don’t trust water reports from anyone/any company that has a financial incentive to keep the water source operating. Unless you get the actual report from an independent lab you can’t really be sure of what’s in the water. There’s been multiple “water managers” that have been found to have altered what’s in the water based on their own misguided beliefs then delivering doctored water reports. Up near us it was found that large vats of waste in decrepit containers were being stored next to the treatment pools.

Our water reports never detailed every last PPM and never gave explicit numbers, and would often default to using estimates. This wasn’t acceptable to me for something as important as the water my family and I drink, clean, and cook with all day every day.

There’s a vast difference in the final quality of a plant grown from a pure water source and one grown from a heavy source. However, if you’re happy with what you’re producing that’s really all that matters in the end. No one else has to do your work, handle your business, pay your bills or live with your thoughts, so if you’re happy then mission accomplished.

 

[Keffka]

Just add more calmag

I busted out laughing at this and lost my train of thought for a moment.. my wife just shook her head

 

[Phytoplankton]

I don’t trust water reports from anyone/any company that has a financial incentive to keep the water source operating. Unless you get the actual report from an independent lab you can’t really be sure of what’s in the water. There’s been multiple “water managers” that have been found to have altered what’s in the water based on their own misguided beliefs then delivering doctored water reports. Up near us it was found that large vats of waste in decrepit containers were being stored next to the treatment pools.

Our water reports never detailed every last PPM and never gave explicit numbers, and would often default to using estimates. This wasn’t acceptable to me for something as important as the water my family and I drink, clean, and cook with all day every day.

Testing for the water quality reports is done by an independent lab, and the results are posted, (as required). Our water company is private and only serves about 150 people, we've been under a "Do Not Drink" order for almost three years, since the old well was contaminated by brine, when they were drilling a new well. Since then they have drilled another well at a nearby location and actually hit pretty good water, but the state has not "certified" the new well yet, hence the do not drink order. Right now the problem is that the old well, which was contaminated, has been purged but the water from that well was never very good quality, now they mix the new and old well water, so the PPM's can (and do) vary.

Everything I've found says that R/O systems are about 25% efficient, so if you make 20 gallons of R/O water, 60-80 gallons is wasted. I'm not into storing R/O waste water.

 

[Keffka]

Everything I've found says that R/O systems are about 25% efficient, so if you make 20 gallons of R/O water, 60-80 gallons is wasted. I'm not into storing R/O waste water.

Your information sounds a bit outdated.. Here’s a 5 stage system that has a 1:1 ratio (1 gallon of waste for 1 gallon of pure) and is less than 200$

Titan Water Pro

Best Water Filtration system Company - Best Water Purification and Water Filtration system Company in LA Los Angeles, US. Providing Whole House Water Filter, Water Softener, Water Treatment System.

titanwaterpro.com

I went with an APEC system that is a 1:2 ratio.. I wasn’t willing to use anything other than an American company for the system so you’re looking at around 200$ if you go that route.

Storing waste water isn’t a requirement, I run mine straight to my drain, I was just making the point the water doesn’t need to be tossed and is completely viable for a variety of uses. I live near a freshwater lake and get water pretty cheap. My system keeps 4-5 gallons on tap at all times so it’s not that much of a burden. I can offset it by not flushing my toilet after I pee 2 or 3 times.

It’s also much more ecological and a far less resource intensive burden on the planet than using bottled water or the jugs of water at the store. It pays for itself within 3 months.

Not trying to convince you of anything, just want to make sure the accurate and current knowledge is out there. There’s a lot of anecdotal “information” around water and water purity.