How to: Simple Hydroponics

[s1ingblade]

So after getting all my work done that I was behind on I took a few mins to play around with the air pot and the hydro halo. It's my biggest airpot I think it's the 5.8 gallon and its a bloom bros 12" hydro halo and it fits just right
now I need some tinted 1/2 poly tubing and a few 3/4 pvc T's and such

 

[TheCapn]

Hey sling, I am loving the drip ring. I have seen these before and always wanted one. I would move it to the top layer to give you a bit more room for media. If your superoots pot is 12" diameter and 13" tall, yes it is the 5.8 gallon.

I love these air pots. The only downside I can see to them is the cost.

 

[TheCapn]

It has only been 6 days since my last update to Simple Hydroponics. The growth rates on the Agent Orange is SICK. I thought ACE was the fastest I've grown, but this Agent Orange is faster. Many branches have grown 20+ inches above the original screen. I had to build a "double decker" SCROG that will work out nicely to hold the colas when they bulk up. I have had to get really picky and remove many small nodes that won't get any light. It is really a shame I don't have a 4' x 4' area for both of these plants. The trunks on these babies are plenty big enough to feed all the bud sides.

The node spacing is kind of far for these. On the next round, I will go the first two weeks of flower with a metal halide to see if I can control height better.

Double decker 3' x 4' SCROG:

Smaller Agent Orange 2' x 3' SCROG:

Ace of spades looking good with 3-4 more weeks to go. 4' x 4' SCROG:

 

[Hiker]

Hey Hiker, thanks for the info. I could probably get away with not irrigating at night as well. It is true plants take up much less amounts of water at night, but I have also read that plants "rehydrate" during the night, and if no water is available, plants can actually go into conservation mode, closing stomata and so fourth, which slows growth. I like your idea of running your E&F buckets with Rock. It gives the roots more to hold on to, gives beneficial bacteria a home, and the rock holds water. When I did it E&F buckets, I didn't use media, and the roots just dangled. I've also done E&F buckets full of rockwool cubes too. I am fascinated how plants take up water, and sometimes you can actually see water droplets here and there on leaves. This is a good read: Physiology of Water Absorption and Transpiration

Yeah I've had a few colas go to mold too. I don't care for E&F trays in flower either. Just not enough room for roots and like you said, it it an evaporating machine!

As far as defoliating, I do some as I said in the previous post, but not too much at at time. I am open to ideas on this, but I believe the large fan leaves do most of the photosynthesis, which provide energy to the flowers. That said, I am probably too conservative. Im watching your journal. I can't wait to see them bud out.

Thanks Capn

I had not heard that plants re-hydrate overnight. In warmer climates, that would make sense as an advantageous adaptation.

I should clarify, that I don't recommend anyone flood that often. I've become a firm believer that roots prefer to be moist, not wet, so I only flood 5 times total, 4 during the 'day and one at 'night'.

It's always seemed to me that getting air to the roots was more difficult then delivering water and nutrients. That's why I like grow rock so much. There is plenty of room for roots and air. It seems like the flood and drain action would do an excellent job of delivering fresh O2 to the roots. C.A.P., the manufacturer of the Ebb & Gro system I'm using, agrees since they point it out in their literature.

Just something to share about F&D and rock...
Last weekend I went to Seattle for a few days. I left on Thursday afternoon after just having changed the res. I made a huge mistake and forgot to plug in the fill pump.

This meant the plants went a little more than 72 hours without ANY floods before I got home and realized the problem. Only 3 plants displayed any sign of stress. One yellowed a little, but it was already showing some signs of distress before I left. The other 2 had droopy leaves, but only one was enough to concern me. They are all doing fine now. I don't really expect any impact on yield. The point I was trying to make is to demonstrate how resilient rock is! I always hear people say hydro is so hard because you can't leave for a few days and if something goes wrong you lose your plants. You CAN leave a hydro system for several days (at least you can leave my system that long), and I had something go wrong and the plants are fine. Honestly, I've killed way more plants in soil than in hydro.


As to defoliation. I was recently re-reading my old grow book by Cervantes. The part where he said never remove a healthy leaf did catch my eye. I know, when I grew in the 90's, I always removed the large "sucker leaves". All the growers I knew did. They were "sucker" leaves because, if you left them on, you were a sucker, or because they would suck resources from the buds.

Since starting to grow again, I've put more thought into defoliation. I've studied the information and experiences others share and come to my own conclusions about why it works and developed a defol schedule and technique that works for me. Indoors, I can't imagine I'll ever NOT defoliate. So far, I've resisted removing leaves on my outdoor plants. My theory being that with artificial light, we have to defoliate to help compensate for diminishing light intensity. Under The Sun, we don't have to do that.

Is Grams Per Watt our goal?
It is a great goal to strive for to save electricity (and great bragging rights), but it's not our limiting factor. In order to calculate your cost of electricity, take the cost of electricity, times watts, times hours.

You're making an assumption here. The GPW calculation is not necessarily used just to measure electrical efficiency. It's just one of many measure that can be used as a reference to compare different grows. Why bother measuring light intensity then? All we care about is how the plant reacts, right? We measure it so we have something to compare to.

Can we come up with better metrics? You bet! I'm all for GPW, but I think we need to take into account ALL of the power being used. Someone with an AC is probably using more Watts per Gram than someone without an AC.

I've always thought a better metric was Ounces per Square Foot. That's what we used in the 90's. I think Jorge may have mentioned it in his book too. Nobody I knew ever thought in terms of grams per watt. Hell, none of us talked in grams unless we were weighing out a bag!

I do think GPW has some merit though. I think it's a great milestone for any grower. If you can hit that mark, it demonstrates a large degree skill and process refinement. Anyone able to reach a GPW gets my respect.

Is light and space a limiting factor?
No. If you could reproduce the same above scenario 4 times in your grow room, you would go buy the lighting and fill up your basement today. $91 to flower 34 ounces? Sign me up!

I realize there is more to it than just space. It all adds up... keeping the room cool, de-humidification, nutrients, and so fourth.

If we assume money is not a limiting reagent, then light should not be either. Space is always a finite resource for a given grow room. You can get a bigger space, but then the process starts over in the new space.

Plant Count
When we look at the big picture, plant count is your only true limiting factor. Go outside your limit, get caught, bye bye.

I love WA. My state says I can grow as many plants as I want.

Of course, there are still federal issues to keep in mind, so the 'real' limit is 99 plants.

Your goal
Since plant count is our only HARD limit, the final goal should be weight per plant. Let's be conservative and say... we know we can consistently get 12oz per plant, each plant with a 600W light. That's $30 to run a 600W light for two months, to produce 12oz. I would take that ROI any day. This doesn't include vegetative growth, which costs about 1/4 that (we use 1/4 the light since plants are smaller).

If you're not getting 12oz per plant, how are you making up for it? You're growing a greater quantity of plants. I agree, in a 16sqft area, I could grow more weight from 4 plants, than 1 plant, but not a SIGNIFICANT amount more. In a 4' x 4' SCROG, you're still only going to efficiently grow one nice cola per 4"x4" hole in the screen, whether you have 4 pots underneath or one.

I'm not sure your logic is sound here.
Why is the goal the most weight per plant?
Where do you account for yield over time?

Following this logic to it's conclusion would lead us to NEVER harvest the plant and just keep vegging the plant forever.

There will be some optimal amount of veg time. I have no idea what that amount of time is, but I suspect it will depend on many factors such as the grow space, genetics, etc.

And let's stress that your entire premise is based on limiting plant counts. Not all of us have that concern.

Quality, dirt VS hydro
The super soil organic, and the hydro plant where the same strain, from same mother. If you smoked them one after the other, yeah, the dirt plant was a little more smooth and smelled a little better. I think most people will agree, if given the choice, they would rather smoke organically grown bud. Would your patients? Maybe. I find growers are more anal about their strains and quality than patients. The average patient would rather just pay less per ounce. We take it too personally, when we think we've produced the finest top shelf medication. We expect our patient to be blown away, and all they say is, "It's pretty good."

I'm not convinced that hydro bud isn't as good as stuff grown in soil. I think if the soil grower put the same care, attention, and practice into hydro, they could achieve the same results. I won't try to conjecture as to the other merits of each growing method. I'm just stating my belief that you can grow cannabis of equal quality in hydro or soil (Yes, I just said that! lol).

That being said, I agree 100% about the differences between the grower's perspective and the patients' with regards to quality vs price

This was made abundantly clear at the Farmer's market last weekend. The way some people handle buds makes it obvious they have probably grown anything in their lives, certainly nothing they consumed. Of course people squeeze buds to get some smell, but most folks do it gently and minimize any damage. Then you have the ignorant fucks that squeeze the shit out of them! this one dude comes up, takes out a nugg, smashes is flat in his fingers, rips it in half, stacks the pieces, and rips it in half again. He takes a big sniff. Then, wait for it... throws it back in the jar! WTF!?!?!!!!!?!????!!?!? :surrender: If he had then walked away without getting any I would have been pretty livid. Who does that?

Anyway, sorry about that. Venting a little to folks that will understand. There was actually another patient standing there watching and he sympathized with me.

Summary:
Think about it: if you flower 8 plants and get 4oz per plant, or 8 plants and 12oz per plant, it's a no brainer! Be safe. Stay within your plant counts. Grow the most per plant you can. It takes 2 months to flower, so why not veg for two months? Start with small plant counts and grow em big, Capn style!

What's the veg time difference between the 4oz and 12 oz plant? Now extrapolate that out over a longer period of time. Does the yield over time still recommend fewer harvests of larger plants?

I suspect the 4oz vs 12oz scenario was hypothetical. Have you tested both methods and compared yields?

Sure, your logic sounds great. Who wouldn't want 3 times the harvest? There has to be an optimum veg time for any given situation though. Otherwise the logic says a plant of infinite size is best. The blanket statement that a bigger plant is always better is false. If you veg for 2 months, why not 4 months? or 6 months? see where I'm going with that?

If plant count is a concern, then growing a larger plant probably is better, but how long to veg will depend on a lot of things.

I realize I sorta picked this apart, but it isn't meant as any sort of disrespect. It's a great write up! I'm just a pedantic asshat that can't let go when the logic alarm goes off in his head.

keep 'em green Capn

 

[TheCapn]

Hey Hiker, well written and thought out points. I love these kinds of discussions. This is how we learn.

>>>You CAN leave a hydro system for several days (at least you can leave my system that long), and I had something go wrong and the plants are fine.

Woo hoo! The rock saved you. I can't tell you how many times I unplug something or change something and say to myself, "I need to make sure I switch that back before I leave", and then of course I forget, and end up with a basement full of RO water! But to your point, I really do like the flood and drain... I wonder how long I could go (without water) with the rockwool grow cubes.

>>>I've studied the information and experiences others share and come to my own conclusions about why it works and developed a defol schedule and technique that works for me. Indoors, I can't imagine I'll ever NOT defoliate.

Since you mentioned this before, I catch myself removing fan leaves daily. The new strain I'm growing, (agent orange) has MASSIVE 9 bladed fan leaves all over the place, and I've been taking off a few a day. Previously, I've been growing ACE, AK48, 3D. The ACE and AK48 simply didn't need as much defoliation. So, I would say this has a lot to do with strain. It's easy for me to say, "defol isn't necessary", if I'm growing a strain that doesn't really need it. Overall, based on research, I don't think it's a good idea to do a "defoliation session", especially when the plant is gearing up to flower. It may be less stress on the plant to take off a few here and there over time. That being said, I've never compared the two methods so who knows?

>>>I'm not sure your logic is sound here.
Why is the goal the most weight per plant?
Where do you account for yield over time?
Following this logic to it's conclusion would lead us to NEVER harvest the plant and just keep vegging the plant forever.

True true.... I come up with this logic based on many people being limited by plant count. You pointed out above that some of us (lucky) are not limited by plant count, and the next limiting factor is space. As far as veg time, we need to still be able to flower it indoors, so anything beyond a couple months, and it is difficult to manage indoors. My point was, if we flower for two months, why not veg for two months? When I say this, I'm basing this again on someone who has a limited plant count.

>>>What's the veg time difference between the 4oz and 12 oz plant?
When we veg a plant for double the time, the increase in yield is exponential. Meaning we more than double the yield, at least I do anyway. I used to flower 4 plants (vegged for one month) in a 4'x4' area, and I consistently got ~4oz/plant = 16oz. Now, in the same space, I grow one plant, and consistently get 12oz every two months. Less yield over all, but if space wasn't a factor, I could flower 4 plants x 12oz= 96oz in the same two months.

>>>Now extrapolate that out over a longer period of time. Does the yield over time still recommend fewer harvests of larger plants?

Good question. Lets try it To keep things simple, lets say we are limited to 16 plants, and space is not an issue.

Using my theory of 12oz per plant... lets be generous and say 10oz per plant... and two months veg time, we could have 8 plants in veg, and 8 plants flowering at all times, that's 8 plants x 10 = 80oz of product every two months.

Using your theory of one month veg time, we could stagger plants in the flowering room monthly. Every month, we could cut 5 clones, put the 5 plants (that were vegged for one month) into flower, and harvest the 5 plants that were in flower. 5 plants x 4oz each = 20 oz a month. So every two months we would have 40oz.

So, unless I am totally about this incorrectly, growing big plants will double the amount of product we can produce every two months (based on a 16 plant limit). That being said, the one month veg plan requires less than 100 sq feet, and about 2200 watts of light (400 in veg, 1800 in flower). The 10oz/plant method requires 16sqft per flowering plant = 128sq ft, just for flowering 8 plants! And, about 6000 watts of light (8 x 600w=4800 for flower, and two 600w for veg)! As far as electricity you would save about 15-20% in light (per oz of finished product), by vegging for only a month. But the ROI is a no brainer. If you have the space, your investment in equipment pays for itself in one grow, and the electricity worth it.

Let's say our space and light is constant. There is no doubt that five, 4oz plants is a much better use of light and space. Let's take my set up for example, which is a typical (or smaller) set up that most growers use. (I have 1800W in flower, 400w in veg, and a 60sq ft growing space (4 x 12 flower, 4 x 3 veg)) I could do either scenario with my space and light.

A. 2 plants in flower, 2 plants in veg, and produce 12oz every month (2 month veg time, stagger every month)

B. 8 plants in flower, 4 plants in veg, staggering flowering every month = 4plants x 4oz = 16oz every month

These numbers are averages, what I've been able to pull off so far, and I'm using the same electricity and same space with either method... Based on history, I'm currently get 25% less product than I did before, unless I keep growing 20 ouncers ;-) ha!

I know there are a lot of other variables we are not taking into consideration here as well, and some of it is theory. I've never had 8, 4ft x 4 ft plants growing at one time.

Anyway, you make good points, Hiker. Thanks for the well written reply. What do you think about the above scenario?

TheCapn

 

[Hiker]

Hey Hiker, well written and thought out points. I love these kinds of discussions. This is how we learn.

I'm glad you didn't take my reply as any sort of attack. I'm not trying to suggest my ideas are "right". I'm just trying to approach the problem logically. I often make logical errors (may day job is a web/db developer) that I can't even see, so I like to explain my logic so others can help me see where I make an assumption or something.

That was really my point. We can't say bigger is better without define more parameters. Every time we change a condition or assumption, the outcome would change. Your reply demonstrates this. You started by setting the condition that "space is not an issue." In my scenario it was. It's true that if cost was not a consideration, then you could always add space, but again, we fall into the same logic trap. Bigger can't always be better.

I had set the condition that space was finite, but if we consider the problem without that condition, then yes, obviously your logic is correct. Of course ten fifty ounce plants will yield more than ten 5 ounce plants.

Honestly, I my eyes sorta glazed over when you went into the numbers. That's dangerous ground. I think you need to be able to define the hypothesis more generally before you introduce specific examples. If you try to do that, you'll realize what the real questions are. For example: in a given space, with a limit on plant count, what is the ideal amount of veg time to maximize yield over the course of one year? That's the question you're trying to answer, right?

After you've defined the conditions, you can speculate about numbers, but it's only that... speculation. Next you would have to do some experimentation to find the answer to the question. You can certainly make use of tests you've already run. You're certainly already testing with a space constraint, so as long as your experiment uses a fixed space, you may already have some data points.

I know there are a lot of other variables we are not taking into consideration here as well, and some of it is theory.

I think you pretty much summed it up right there.

Big plants are awesome. They are fun to grow and beautiful to look at. I'm just not sure where the sweet spot is for an indoor grower with a plant count limit. Without a plant count limit, SOG is the way to go if you want yield over time. I don't think anyone argues with that do they?

As I was writing that I started to wonder about scrogs. I've done them, and they are a lot of fun too. You will learn a lot about how the plant grows by doing a few scrogs. I guess this would be an appropriate technique when your limit by both plant count and vertical space.

Anyway, thanks for getting my brain thinking about an interesting puzzle. I'm not under a count limit, so my perspective is a little different. I still think about it though. I've only been "legal" for unlimited plants since Friday.

 

[runewulfsong]

Hey Hiker, I got my WA recommendation in April and I'm pretty sure we're limited to 15 plants per recommendation. I'd have to dig mine out again, but that's also what I've been told by the dispensaries as well. On the flip side, I've also been told that if they ever do check your plants and you're over (but under the 100 federal number), you get to choose the 15 you keep. Unless that's just out here on the OP, but I got my recommendation in Tacoma, so I thought it was standard state wide, unless it changed in the last few months. Either way, I'd double check that "unlimited number of plants" thing just to be safe. And if the law did change, I would certainly be interested in knowing

 

[Hiker]

Hey Hiker, I got my WA recommendation in April and I'm pretty sure we're limited to 15 plants per recommendation. I'd have to dig mine out again, but that's also what I've been told by the dispensaries as well. On the flip side, I've also been told that if they ever do check your plants and you're over (but under the 100 federal number), you get to choose the 15 you keep. Unless that's just out here on the OP, but I got my recommendation in Tacoma, so I thought it was standard state wide, unless it changed in the last few months. Either way, I'd double check that "unlimited number of plants" thing just to be safe. And if the law did change, I would certainly be interested in knowing

I wasn't aware either until I saw this page:
Seattle Medical Marijuana | Medicine Man Wellness Center

This is the office I visited. I highly recommend Dr Iris Crawford. She is awesome. My wife and I both liked her. I've decided to use her as my primary caregiver I liked her so much.

 

[runewulfsong]

I hadn't heard of that. It's always nice to find a good Dr. especially in this day and age where most seem to not care and just want to rush you through to get a lil more $$.

That's cool, need to find that in the legislation and see if my Dr. will do that when I renew.

 

[TheCapn]

Hey Hiker, few questions.

1. In your E&F rock buckets, I think you said you flood 4x a day. Do you decrease that when they drink less? For example, the A.O. (3rd - 4th week into flower) is consuming right at 1 gallon a day right now, and I'm irrigating 5x a day. The ACE is in it's 7th week, and it's only consuming about 1/2 gal a day. I'm irrigating 3 x a day.

2. Do you flood ALL your buckets at once from your res? When I did 8 E&F buckets I used to only flood 1/2 of mine at a time, using two water pumps from the same res. This way, I could use 1/2 the res volume, saving on nutrients, saving on the hassle, and also if something malfunctioned I only had 1/2 the water on the floor.

3. Have you ever thought about top feeding instead of flooding? This gives the ability to use substantially less volume of water, but if the water "channels" you don't get the same flood effect. In rockwool cubes, I don't see much difference. The capillary action of rock wool ensures it all gets wet (as long as you irrigate long enough).

Cap

 

[s1ingblade]

It has only been 6 days since my last update to Simple Hydroponics. The growth rates on the Agent Orange is SICK. I thought ACE was the fastest I've grown, but this Agent Orange is faster. Many branches have grown 20+ inches above the original screen. I had to build a "double decker" SCROG that will work out nicely to hold the colas when they bulk up. I have had to get really picky and remove many small nodes that won't get any light. It is really a shame I don't have a 4' x 4' area for both of these plants. The trunks on these babies are plenty big enough to feed all the bud sides.

The node spacing is kind of far for these. On the next round, I will go the first two weeks of flower with a metal halide to see if I can control height better.

That GH Rapid Start is the stuff that I was gifted. I didn't know it for like two months but when I bought the 5 gallon smarties 6 out of the ten had lil samples of it inside the label. That and dude sent me 11 instead of ten I will most def. order from hom again lol. Do you or have you used that house and gardens root excelerator? Or whatever its called by whoever makes it lol sorry

 

[Hiker]

Hey Capn! Sorry for the slow reply...

Hey Hiker, few questions.

1. In your E&F rock buckets, I think you said you flood 4x a day. Do you decrease that when they drink less? For example, the A.O. (3rd - 4th week into flower) is consuming right at 1 gallon a day right now, and I'm irrigating 5x a day. The ACE is in it's 7th week, and it's only consuming about 1/2 gal a day. I'm irrigating 3 x a day.

I don't change my flood timing in relation to how much water the plants consume. I've settled on 4 times a day for this round. That includes one during the night. What I DO change is how long I flood. When they are first put in the bucket, I only flood for one "pin" on my timer. As they develop more and more root mass, it takes longer for the water to work it's way up through the roots, so I increase it to 2 "pins" (15 minutes and 30 minutes I think, but now that I read it, I'm not sure. Maybe it's 30 and 60).

2. Do you flood ALL your buckets at once from your res? When I did 8 E&F buckets I used to only flood 1/2 of mine at a time, using two water pumps from the same res. This way, I could use 1/2 the res volume, saving on nutrients, saving on the hassle, and also if something malfunctioned I only had 1/2 the water on the floor.

I use the CAP Ebb&Gro system. I used the same system back in the 90's. I like it well enough. I'm the kind of guy that makes his own backpacking gear because nothing sold is made exactly right. There are things I would do different if, or when, I build my own system. I do like the 'brain bucket' concept though. I'd used trays too, and much prefer the buckets. I insist on the ability to move my plants.

I do like that idea with 2 pumps. If I was using a gravity system, that would be pretty clever.

To answer the question though, yes, I flood all the buckets from the same reservoir. I have plans to expand my flowering area, so eventually, I will have 3 separate reservoirs feeding 3 sets of buckets. I will likely DIY the other systems, but we will see.

I probably 'waste' nutes by making 50g reservoirs when 35-40 might be enough. I think the larger volume allows for a larger buffering affect though, and I tend to stretch my 'weekly' res changes to 10-12 days if the ph is stable.

3. Have you ever thought about top feeding instead of flooding? This gives the ability to use substantially less volume of water, but if the water "channels" you don't get the same flood effect. In rockwool cubes, I don't see much difference. The capillary action of rock wool ensures it all gets wet (as long as you irrigate long enough).

Cap

Rockwool makes me nervous. I know it works, and have seen, and gotten good results, but I've also had trouble. I like the rock's lack of water holding ability. As the plant matures, the root mass itself holds a LOT of water/nutes. As an example, just this last 4th of July holiday, I went to Seattle and we camped for a few days. Of course, I made a nice fresh reservoir for them, but I made a mistake and didn't plug the fill pump back in. They had NO floods for 72 hours or so, and they were fine. Literally, no effect AFAICT. They have been in the buckets for awhile now. I've taken these root balls apart. I know what it looks like in there. There is great hair growth down there. I love buckets of rock!

I have often considered a top feed. It is more like nature, but I'm hardly creating an environment much like 'nature'. Channeling is one problem that flooding resolves. I also like that a flood will also force a change of the air in the root mass. That's actually my biggest motivation to keep flooding as often as I do. Like I said, the root mass hold plenty of water after it's been in the pot for awhile. It's my feeling that replacing the air is probably as, or more, important than the water/nutes replenishment.


I will be honest. I've been watching Jon's change to soil with some interest. For all the same reasons he's doing it, I'm curious. I may be running a little soil test in the next few months. Basically it will depend on if I get my property fenced and can get some soil made before the snow hits.

keep em green Capn!

 

[TheCapn]

Well written and good answers, Hiker. Yeah I think you found a nice medium with those rocks. Most mediums that hold enough water to last 72 hours, would also hold TOO much water. I would like to see pics of those rocks / root mass upon harvest. With the rockwool, I cut back a little as the plants use less, but it is still hard to over water. I've accidentally left my pump on for 2 days, and no signs of overwatering. The water is super oxygenated from top feeding.

In my next few plants, I am experimenting with adding a little hydroton to the mix, so I can flood more often. The thing I don't like about hydroton, is it doesn't give the roots the ability to penetrate like the rockwool does. The hydroton simply takes up SPACE in the root zone.

I'm envious of your set up. I wouldn't get any work done if I had that kind of space!

>>I've been watching Jon's change to soil with some interest.

Shut yo mouth! Too slow for me.

I'll keep em green, capn style ;-) I need to come check on your journal today.

 

[TheCapn]

Getting back on track to my "simple hydroponics" thread, I will go ahead and post an update, to show you the 3 systems and progress:

Ace of spades in Method #1, the simplest method. It is about 2 weeks from harvest. Currently, it is getting GH calmag (5ml/gal), florablend(2ml/gal), and koolbloom booster(3ml/gal) and then I add micro and bloom at a 2-3 part ratio, to take the ppm up to 900-1000.

Agent Orange in Method #2, which I am REALLY digging this topfeed / DWC hydrid. Currently, it is getting cal mag (4ml/gal) and florablend(3ml/gal), and then dutchmaster flower A+B, plus ADD27, at a 2 to 1 ratio, until ppm is around 800. I really need to "double decker" the SCROG, but I have not had the time to do it. This plant is REALLY constricted in this small space but I have no choice :-(

Agent Orange in Method #3, which I don't care for this method quite as much, only because access to the root zone is restricted, and the plant is a little high for my 7.5' ceilings. But the simple system is working and the plant is thriving. Currently, it is getting cal mag (4ml/gal) and florablend(3ml/gal), and then dutchmaster flower A+B, plus ADD27, at a 2 to 1 ratio, until ppm is around 800.

All plants still getting beneficial tea, once a week. Thanks for reading. Sorry we got off track there for a bit.

 

[s1ingblade]

Nice tree trunk cap!
I've got way too much sun leaves brand "rocks" its an expanded clay pellet type rock, supossed to have silica as an added bonus. I think there hoping the hydro ton rumor Of Germany running out of resources as an opportunity on taking over the dwc market. Anyways i got ten big bags so method three or the ten gallon custom net pot would be no problem and i would just love to be able to get the trunks that big, that ought to produce lol

 

[runewulfsong]

Wow Capn, that think is phenomenol ... +reps and then some

 

[TheCapn]

Thanks guys. I am SO excited about this Agent Orange. A word of caution though, as you can see, when put into flower, it is unstoppable. It is a new strain for me, and I was not prepared for the growth spurt after putting into flower. It is nothing like the Ace of Spades.

I wanted to talk about a few things that aren't really related to "simple hydroponics" but are things we should all keep in mind at any point in your grow. Sometimes we KNOW we have a problem in the grow room, but we ignore it, and hope for the best. I'm guilty of it too. Before you spend money on co2, super bloom boosters, or the latest gadget, make sure our "basics" are covered first. One thing I have learned, it doesn't matter how much money you throw at it, you can't "force" healthy plants!

1. Keep your ppm under 800 in weeks 1 to 5 of flower, and under 1000 weeks 6-8. On the ACE pics above you will notice some tiny yellow tips. This is because I accidentally mixed up 1400ppm (@ .5) nutrients and let it run for a few days before I realized it. More nutrients does more harm than good. With most hydro systems, ppm wont be anywhere near what the vendor says on the bottle. When unsure, you can usually follow the RATIOS. For example, if the nutrient calculator says 10ml/gal of micro and 15ml/gal of bloom, that is a 2-3 part ratio. So start with something like 4ml/gal micro, and 6ml/gal bloom.

2. Before you spend money on CO2, fancy controllers, or additives, make sure your basics are covered. Ask yourself, "If Jorge Cervantes saw my grow right now, what would he say?" Here's a checklist:

A. Is my grow room clean? Am I inviting pests by providing a place for bugs to nest? How long has that bag of dead fan leaves been sitting there?

B. What's the temp in the room, and in the water? If your air temps are over 80, do whatever it takes to get them down. Put ballasts outside room. Air cool your lights. Increase your exhaust fan size. Water temps over 75? This method is somewhat forgiving for water temps, but you still want to keep them as low as possible. Put your reservoir directly on concrete floor to keep it cooler. Locate air pumps outside of room so they pump cooler air into the res. Make sure reservoirs are not getting light. Paint them white.

C. Don't let dirty $hit get into your reservoirs. No leaves rotting in res, don't use a dirty cup (or your dirty hands) to scoop water out of res, use new airstones instead of used ones, rinse meter probes in h2o2 / water solution when going from res to res.

D. Is your flower room light proof? It may have been last week, but is it still? You may have inadvertently changed something and light could be leaking in. When standing inside it, you shouldn't be able to see ANY light.

E. Are roots getting enough oxygen? Make sure no roots are sitting in stagnant water. Does your medium drain well? For high yields, flood the root zone with nutrients as frequent as possible.

3. When buying / upgrading equipment, start small, but think big. What I mean by that is.... for example, instead of buying 2, 400watt lights with cheapie hoods, just buy ONE 600w light, with a nice 6" large, air cooled hood. It is difficult to keep your room cool without an air cooled hood. Light directly affects yield. Don't skimp here. NO IMPULSE purchases at the grow store!

4. Minimize the chance for human error, and after making a change, check it repeatedly several days after you make that change. For example, let's say you have an outlet in your grow room where your irrigation timer is plugged. You unplug the timer, so you can plug in something else temporarily... then forget about it, and leave your plants un-watered for days. Or you adjust a drip line, walk away, and it pops out and plant doesn't get watered while you are on vacation in las vegas (me). TOO MANY TIMES I have made these mistakes and it can end up in disaster, or a flooded floor, etc. Once I set my light timer to "on" and left my flower lights on for 2 days straight!

5. Don't flower your plant until it is ready. Flowering a plant from seed too early could cause it to produce male flowers, pollinating your crop. Remember, increasing vegetative growth stage, exponentially increases final yield. What I mean by this is... double your veg time, could triple your yield.

Jessie

 

[TheCapn]

Nice tree trunk cap!
I've got way too much sun leaves brand "rocks" its an expanded clay pellet type rock, supossed to have silica as an added bonus. I think there hoping the hydro ton rumor Of Germany running out of resources as an opportunity on taking over the dwc market. Anyways i got ten big bags so method three or the ten gallon custom net pot would be no problem and i would just love to be able to get the trunks that big, that ought to produce lol

Hey Sling, in my new "ultimate flowering machine" I'll be running a mix of 70% grow cubes and 30% hydroton (or lava rocks). Like I said I don't care for the hydroton so much because it just takes up space. I may also try small lava rock pebbles instead. "hiker" uses only lava rocks and has great success. Lava rocks give roots pores to grow in. Two more weeks and I will have that baby in production.

 

[chucho]

There is a simple hydroponic manual I got on facebook under the title of outdoorhydroponic. I followed all the steps from building the hydroponic, germinating seeds and getting the final product. I am really happy with the amazing results I have in my outdoor hydroponic system. Hope this information can help you guys as well.

 

[Hiker]

Well written and good answers, Hiker. Yeah I think you found a nice medium with those rocks. Most mediums that hold enough water to last 72 hours, would also hold TOO much water. I would like to see pics of those rocks / root mass upon harvest. With the rockwool, I cut back a little as the plants use less, but it is still hard to over water. I've accidentally left my pump on for 2 days, and no signs of overwatering. The water is super oxygenated from top feeding.

In my next few plants, I am experimenting with adding a little hydroton to the mix, so I can flood more often. The thing I don't like about hydroton, is it doesn't give the roots the ability to penetrate like the rockwool does. The hydroton simply takes up SPACE in the root zone.

I'm envious of your set up. I wouldn't get any work done if I had that kind of space!

>>I've been watching Jon's change to soil with some interest.

Shut yo mouth! Too slow for me.

I'll keep em green, capn style ;-) I need to come check on your journal today.

Ya know, when I was cleaning them up after my harvest, it occurred to me someone might want to see the root mass. I should have taken pictures. I'm only a few weeks from harvest. I'll get some pictures for you this time.

I really do like the rock. When you pull them out, you can see a huge (2+") layer starting around where the top of the flood is that looks like webs it's so full of mychos. They do get root bound, but that's because i'm using little 2g pot and vegging for a month!

That's interesting you don't have trouble with overwatering and rock wool. I used to use it in varying amounts when I was growing in trays. I never went to 100% rock wool, but I did use larger and larger cubes for awhile, but I didn't like how much water they held. It was probably just in comparison to the rock. If I keep the rock the right moisture level, the RW is too wet. If I get the RW right, the rock is too dry. It was that little run of experiments that turned me off from it. I continued to use it to clone, but I would veg 10"+ plants in these tiny little RW cubes before putting them in the trays of rocks. I thought it was cool to have more plant than RW.

Now I've built an aero cloner and put the bare roots right into the rock buckets. You just flood the buckets when they are only 2/3 filled with rock. The rock floats a little so you can just wiggle the roots right in, then finish putting the rock in. This current crop is the first time I used the method, and I was very pleased with how well it worked!

I'm watching Jon's experiment too. He's got me reading a LOT about soil now. I'm waaaay behind on that learning curve, but I'm a quick learner. In fact, today I added some Azomite to an Amazon order I'm working on. When I left soil to switch to hydro, I didn't know nearly as much about our beloved plant as I do now. Maybe I can do better in soil this time around. I'm for sure doing some test plants next round. I realized it's also a way for me to expand my flowering with minimal cost.