Increasing yield with defoliation indoors: What's it mean? How to do it?

[dlchobbes]

So I've been watching my girls (like I do anything else) and this new treatment: the rubber bands, and it looks pretty good. The amount of light allowed in is probably a 75% increase. The leaves get wrapped in a 3 1/2" tripled-up rubber band (too big, but it's what I've got) and can work their way out over the course of two nights. Clever. I have 4, 4 foot T-5's 2600's on the walls about 30" up in a 6X4 room with a 600 w hps overhead. I'm gonna swap the T-5's to 10.0 UV-B's about 10 weeks in a 12 week process, I'm in my 9th week.

 

[Bobbybosche92]

good luck

What do u mean wrap?

 

[BootUmAll]

Just checking in. Have been defoliating for a while and all of a sudden my latest batch of plants don't seem to want to stretch. I'm growing the same strain but must admit I have been rather aggressive of late so am going to give my veggies a little more height before I do the second defol. Checking in and learning every day.

 

[Bobbybosche92]

Just checking in. Have been defoliating for a while and all of a sudden my latest batch of plants don't seem to want to stretch. I'm growing the same strain but must admit I have been rather aggressive of late so am going to give my veggies a little more height before I do the second defol. Checking in and learning every day.

Thanks man I seem to be havering the same problem...

 

[dlchobbes]

What do u mean wrap?

I have read this thread through from the beginning and feel that defoliating's intention is good, but the methodology is flawed. I believe plants need their leaves for a variety of reasons at a variety of times in their development. Removing a large number of their leaves does them harm and stunts their growth (Again, IMHO). However, as the plant gets older and the leaves have begun to form a dense canopy, covering the budding buds, something has to be done to afford them access to light.
Instead of defoliating I take about 4" of gardener's wire (I tried rubber bands first, but the leaves are too clever. They shrink and cause the bands to fall off.) and, starting at the base of the leaf itself, that is, where the fronds separate from the branch/stem/petiole, I grasp the fronds gently and gather them together. I start with a small open loop or "J" shape, softly pinch it at the base and wrap the wire in a corkscrew direction working out to the end. This is pretty easy to do, but you must be as careful as you can be not to bruise the leaf. Some damage will happen, but this isn't hard to do carefully.
Now you've reduced the size of the canopy and afforded those smaller interior and shaded buds some extra light, but the leaves still have some exposure and can do at least a bit of their work. I found that I increased the exposure by about 70%. Your girls will thank you.
I also tie the bud branches down and have T-5 lights on the walls.

 

[dlchobbes]

Thanks man I seem to be havering the same problem...

Stop defoliating young plants.

 

[znoop]

hello!
I've red most of this thread so I highly appreciate experienced growers sharing their knowledge with the rest.
special thanks for the thread to Bassman59.

i was thinking i could get support here with the grow,
there is about 50 (@30-50cm) tops out of net at 20-40cm under 600w hps from 3 plants in clay pebbles drip system. 32 days since switched to 12/12.

I started defoliation after 18-22 days since 12/12.

I was wondering if there is any point to bend them tops so the lower shots will get even more light? or maybe clean the lower parts of and leave them tops as they are?
thanks for input!

 

[dlchobbes]

I bend early and don't defoliate, I wrap. Bending causes all those little buds down the stem to grow big and strong. Grow yer own, NO BLOOD WEED!

 

[dlchobbes]

BTW, pardon me for not complimenting you on your girls. Nice.

 

[Hash Hound]

update on my Cheese, this is what is was like before a mid flower defol. Usually do 3rd and 6th week. didn't work out that way so we went with mid flower. probably strip her good in 2 more weeks.

this is 5 wks flwr. 8 colas. each is like a mini plant.

Lot of lower waste though. I could have LSTed her and filled the whole room.

 

[dlchobbes]

Very curious to see what it looks like after the seventh week strip. As I've said before, I wrap my leaves, but your plant looks healthy. Good luck. It's not too late to lst.

 

[shadowman]

I'm looking forward to getting a couple of grows under my belt to gain experience so I can try this. My setup is small due to budget and I'll want to maximize my humble 1-2 plants.

 

[dlchobbes]

LST and wrapping (Daving) is my advice.

 

[shadowman]

I have no idea what you said, What is LST and wrapping?

 

[dlchobbes]

LST stands for "low stress training" and refers to gently bending the flowering stems down at varying times in the plant's development. This exposes the lower buds to more light and spurs their growth. "Daving" refers to a technique I developed in response to the defoliating craze. I think it "harms" the plant, it just goes against my grain to have such a wonderful plant and to strip it of its leaves, well, I can't do that.
So, I take a 6", or so, piece of gardener's wire, put a small "J" on the bottom and hook that over the leaf stem or petiole. I softly pinch the "J" around the stem at the base of the leaf fan. Then I gently gather the fronds together and wrap the wire around the clutch of fronds.
You don't have to do it very tightly, just tight enough to gather the fronds into a more collected shape and with that you can reduce the canopy footprint by as much as 80%.
Now, with your lst'd bud stems and the increase of light penetration gained from daving your yield should increase, hopefully substantially.
Does this help?

 

[shadowman]

Yes, thanks for explaining it to me.

 

[Hash Hound]

I could have sworn I posted this earlier, but don't see it and can't figure why the mods would have deleted it, if they did.

unless i forgot to hit submit.

here goes again

Can you show pics of these "J" and the roll thing? I just cant imagine what u mean.
I would love to try it. I only defol out of necessity.

Plus it's real tight in the room, i have to do what ever it takes to manipulate the canopy and optimize the grow the best I can. If it calls for some defol, so be it.

I only LSTed one of the Cheese colas. I pollinated 4 of them, so I didn't want to mess with them.

with leaves the size of these, it's a must to do a bit of defol
this is from a WW x Querkle cross of my own

this is a WW I wrapped around the pot and did more LST and pruning than I did defol in the beginning, but now she needs a good defol too,
here she is veg

1 week 12/12

5 weeks 12/12

 

[jaamzhow]

All that crunching and snapping of stem; bending, twisting and adjusting; and apparently it works. It's like being a chiropractor.

 

[dlchobbes]

I'm sorry, I don't have a camera.
Take a straight piece of gardener's wire, about 4" to 6" and bend a small "J" shape (almost a "U", but not quite) at one end. Gather the fronds of the lucky leaf together gently and hook the stem (petiole) at the base of the fronds with the "J" and gently squeeze it shut. Continuing to hold the wire at the base with one hand, gently wrap the long end of the wire gently around the gathered fronds with your other hand. It doesn't have to be pretty and takes a few times to get the hang of the manipulation, but you'll get it. The fan leaves can be folded back on to themselves: fronds gathered and turned back around onto the stem then daved (wrapped).
I'll try to get a camera.
Did I use the word gently? I meant to.

 

[dlchobbes]

The girls are tough, they seem to take a certain amount of twisting and snapping/breaking. Seems that as long as you don't completely sever whatever you're working on, it'll survive.