Leaf discolorations during flowering

[Ziminy]

Every Strain Different... Just because a MFG says use these nutes at this str doesn't necessarily mean they are the right amount for your strain

Good to know, thanx!

Also... you need to adjust your Nute Program based on Veg and Bloom... you stated you are using the same program for both your mother and your flowering plants... that would seem to be the obvious answer.

It might seem like the answer, except that Canna A&B are designed to be used together equally through the entire life of the plant. Take it up with them, everyone who uses it does the same thing.

I do add Cannazym and Rhizotonic during veg and PK13/14 during bloom, but they are extras and not necessary.

 

[Roseman]

Temps and Humidity In Deep Water Culture

Temperatures, Humidity The temperature is the hardest factor to take control of to me. When confined to a small space, ballasts and HID lights can push temperatures sky-high in no time flat. That is why I use CFLS, to avoid venting heat. This is especially true during hot summer months when...

www.420magazine.com

 

[Ziminy]

Nice read. I love facts.

I'm not accustomed to just believing everything people tell me. I'm never blindly going to just do what someone tells me without an explanation of WHY. I'm pleased to now know the WHY. In your article:

In general the optimal daytime temperature for plant growth is between 70F -75F

My house is at 74 - Check

The ideal temp for this root zone is generally 65 to 75 degrees F

My house is at 74 - Check

The best range that your reservoir can be between is 60F-75F

My house is at 74 - Check

Ideally the reservoir temperature should be at 65F because this level optimal for processing oxygen

My house is at 74 - Uh oh, chongo!
Great, I now understand that everything is just fine at 74 degrees, but the reservoir water will hold a shitload more oxygen at 65. Groovy.
HOW DO YOU DO IT? How do you keep your house at 74 and your reservoir at 65? This is the question of the day. Why aren't hundreds of people posting all the great ways they get their reservoirs to 65? How am I to believe that hundreds of thousands of people worldwide are actually running back and forth to the freezer all day with ice cubes or frozen water bottles? I'm not sure why you can't see that this sounds pretty ridiculous. I'm not saying that people are NOT doing it. Just that it sounds highly unlikely, and therefore I need proof. Under any other circumstances, I would say that you are all playing a practical joke on me. Nobody is going to run around with ice cube trays all day, just so they can grow pot? Medical patients all over the world are in pain, but not too much pain to run around with ice bottles all day. It sounds silly. I'm sorry, but it does. Stick a moron in a round room and tell him to piss in a corner!

I feel like the moron, and there's no corner to piss in.

The ideal temperature for sprouting or cloning is 80F

Really? When I had my clones at 80 they wouldn't root. They rotted and turned to slime. I was told that I was keeping my plants too hot. I lowered the temperature to 74 (the temp of my house) and magically the next clones all root in a few days.(imagine that) So you can see why I don't just blindly believe everything I hear.

Hydro guy tells me my temps are fine.
Other Florida growers tell me they are growing superior weed at 74 indoor temps.
My own Mother plant is growing like a fucking WEED with 74 water.
Your own article says I am within the "best range" of temperatures.

But.....I'm told my reservoir is too hot and that is killing some of my plants.
And nobody will tell me a reasonable way of getting that accomplished.
Look how far up in this thread I asked.
Still no answer.

It's not that I don't appreciate the help. I REALLY REALLY DO!
But PLEASE show me a corner to piss in!

And yes, I'm doing the water bottle shuffle until I can figure out what else to do, but I'm not doing it indefititely.

 

[StinkFinger]

This is the question of the day. Why aren't hundreds of people posting all the great ways they get their reservoirs to 65? How am I to believe that hundreds of thousands of people worldwide are actually running back and forth to the freezer all day with ice cubes or frozen water bottles?

I feel like the moron, and there's no corner to piss in.

Hey Bro.

Don't feel that way. I think you're a little between a rock and a hard spot. People are growing all over the country, obviously with different environmental conditions, for example, my basement stays cool all year round, the cement slab (basement floor) that I have my hydro sitting on acts like a cooling plate and keeps my temps reasonable in the res.

You also mentioned that you didn't want to spend "big-bucks", I speak from a little larger grow setup, but normally we'd purchase a chiller for the reservoir, yeah they're a little pricey, ($300-$600), but they are the tool for the job that's needed.

The ice method would be for budget grows, and many people as I can attest have the time they can devote to changing these out every X hours. Obviously this is something that isn't really appealing to you.

The only other suggestion that I can provide is to create a little space between your floor and your hydro-res, place a fan blowing towards the bottom of your reservoir to create air flow UNDER your reservoir. It should lower you a couple of degrees, but your still fighting your base temp of your house at 74, so that's always going to be an issue.

Obviously, if there were some "magic-bullet" solution, several of us would have answered that for you. Believe me, we're not holding out (lol).

Also, if this is really frustrating you with Hydro, and you aren't/don't want to spend $$, have you considered a soil grow? Just asking.

SF

 

[ChicagoJoe]

lots of questions Ziminy, good luck on everything. I wish I had the answers.
Oh and peeps keep their res temps down with a chiller.

 

[ol hippy]

Ziminy,I grow in a closet ! I have a 400 hps plus a few cfls. During the day with lights on I keep the door open a bit my temp is high 70s - low 80s and my res always stays cool ,I never bother testing with a thermometer any more I just check it when I check ppm and ph before adding my water and nutes . One question is your water pump still in the res ? That will cause temps to rise . if you have roots in the water you don't need a water pump in there any more , just keep your air stones going . I do usually add a few ice cubes to my water as I'm mixing any nutes to add to the res. Just a habit ...

 

[Ziminy]

I'm not really on a budget.
I just didn't want to spend $1000 to lower my water temp 4 degrees if it isn't actually necessary.
I could probably bury my reservoir in the ground with in/out hoses for cheaper and get the same result.

Your private message was appreciated and I think I'm all good now because of it.
I can't tell you how much it has eased my mind.
I'm back on track and ready for my next delicious grow.
Mango Madness, here I come.

 

[StinkFinger]

Sounds like a "session" is coming up! Oh No!



Have a great day man!
SF

 

[StormChaos]

Good to know, thanx!


It might seem like the answer, except that Canna A&B are designed to be used together equally through the entire life of the plant. Take it up with them, everyone who uses it does the same thing.

I do add Cannazym and Rhizotonic during veg and PK13/14 during bloom, but they are extras and not necessary.

Well... this might seem like I am splitting hairs, but I feel I must correct you. You original stated

I have a Mango mother plant in my veg room on the same nutrients and it's doing fine. It is under 8x 22" T5 blue bulbs.

If your introducing additives during your flowering phase that aren't in use during veg than your original statement isn't accurate.... you are not really using the same nutrient solution.... more like your just using the same foundation.... Canna A/B


In so far as the temp of the Nutrient Solution in the Reservoir being able to hold more 02 made me want to see just how much more 02 it could hold... so I did some investigating (assuming I understood everything correctly this is what I figure).... your correct in the fact that a 65 degree solution will infact absorb more O2. But temperature is only one factor in the equation of calculating just how much O2 can be absorbed/saturated into the solution.... assuming 100% saturation @ a temperature of 19C(66.2 F) the max PPM is about 9.4ppm VS. 23C(73.4 F) 8.6ppm .... so that would be roughly a 9% difference - in my opinion it is unlikely that the plants are using all of the 02 in a non - re-circulatory system.. this would be more important if you were recirculating the solution and adding 02 via agitation or air stone... additionally if your using a drip system your agitating the solution and adding 02 as falls....

In my personal experience... My res temps vary from 63 to 74 or so during the course of the year... I keep the reservoirs outside both my grow spaces on the concrete floor of my basement.... my reservoirs are 55 Gallon graduated drums. An air stone in the drums is more than sufficient to handle the 02 needs of the roots.

If I am not mistaken, (perhaps someone can verify or correct me) the majority of 02 uptake is during lights off- and it would seem to me that if your not running your nut solution during the night than it is most likely irrelevant anyway.... I use Multi - RDWCs with a reservoir and I run solution 24/7


The information about the PPM of 02 in water is from WaterontheWeb.com... I am assuming it is correct...

Also... if you really wanted to add 02 to your solution... you can always safely add some hydrogen peroxide to your solution.

 

[StormChaos]

But.....I'm told my reservoir is too hot and that is killing some of my plants.
And nobody will tell me a reasonable way of getting that accomplished.
Look how far up in this thread I asked.
Still no answer.

It's not that I don't appreciate the help. I REALLY REALLY DO!
But PLEASE show me a corner to piss in!

I thought I responded to this earlier... your water temp of 74 isn't killing your plants... as a matter of fact it is in most likelihood having a negligible if any impact on your plants.... and still in a safe range. I wouldn't let it go over 74.

While lower is better to a point say 65 or so and 74 is on the higher side of the safe levels... the only impact this is likely to have is your more likely to experience things like algae growth, increased breeding of micro organisms, and more likely to experience root rot than if you had a res temp of say 65.... but dont get me wrong... a temp of 74 isnt going to cause root rot.

My res temp fluctuates during the course of the year between 63 and 74 or so... I don't even concern myself with the res temp unless it gets to 76, and that never happened... truthfully I can't remember it exceeding 72... I check it once a day when I look at the nute solution level at lights out (during the summer I check it periodically mid day... like once a week just to be sure)... then I test the PPM and PH, calculate what I need to add, and prepare it for morning... usually it is just plan old unadjusted RO water. The reason I prepare it the night before and add it in the morning is so the solution has time to warm to room tempature and not be excessively cold from the faucet.

 

[Ziminy]

Well... this might seem like I am splitting hairs, but I feel I must correct you. You original stated If your introducing additives during your flowering phase that aren't in use during veg than your original statement isn't accurate.... you are not really using the same nutrient solution.... more like your just using the same foundation.... Canna A/B

I was responding to this quote by you.

Also... you need to adjust your Nute Program based on Veg and Bloom

I was not trying to argue with you. I thought I was imparting information that you did not know. Many people do not know about Canna or how it works. And I am constantly hearing people say that you are supposed to feed differently for Veg and Bloom. True with some products, just not with the one I use.

My res temps vary from 63 to 74 or so during the course of the year

That's what I needed to know. I've been talking to more and more people who grow using 74 water with no ill effects.

your correct in the fact that a 65 degree solution will infact absorb more O2

Actually, Roseman gets credit here. That is information he linked for me to read as an explanation of why he thinks my water is too hot. I was just responding to what he had me read.

 

[StormChaos]

Let me give you some advice, and this is in my opinion, by far the best advice you are going to get...

Start taking notes on what works and what doesn't work for your plants. You know the basics.... Temp, Res Temp, PH, PPM, Humidity etc.... this is a project that is going to take considerable amount of time, and the results are going to be (initially) in growth and yield... (eventually) taste and aroma or whatever else it is you are looking for.

I can NOT stress enough that each strain is different. You are dealing with Plants that from all over the world... Africa, South America, Europe, Asia... and crosses of plants that are from all over the world... all that come from natural habitats with climate conditions that are as varied as can be..... equatorial, tropical, northern, arid, southern, mountainous... and everywhere in between.

All the values that people say are ideal are generalization - and are pretty much guaranteed to work with any strain.... However... every strain is in fact slightly different and optimal conditions are in fact different for each plant.

If your plants are showing explosive growth with res temps of 74... leave it alone. Its working.

If you cant clone in 80 or 85 degrees and it will clone beautifully in mids 70s.... you know what you have to do.

If your room temp hits low 80's and your plants show awesome growth... leave it alone. (Mandala strains claim you grow in excessive heat to 90's with little to no adverse effects)

going back to the nutrients... some require more ppm than others....

At the end of the day...you just need to take notes of what you are doing... and track growth rates, yields - taste - aroma... whatever it is you are looking for - figure out your plant and "dial it in" for optimal growth. No One is ever going to be able to tell you what exactly is best for your plant... No One except you.... and you need to track all the variables and figure out optimal.

 

[Ziminy]

Start taking notes on what works and what doesn't work for your plants.

"I do. I'm extremely anal retentive and I tend towards perfectionism. I write notes and journals on everything. I have everything color coordinated. I put stickers on everything with dates and strains."

I can NOT stress enough that each strain is different. You are dealing with Plants that from all over the world... Africa, South America, Europe, Asia... and crosses of plants that are from all over the world...

That's what makes me nervous. heheheheh. I wanted to grow this bag seed so I could make all my mistakes and work out all the kinks. Some things I learn will carry over, but I'm going to have to do it all again with each strain. I am hoping that this trial run will at least make me more comfortable with the different things that CAN go wrong, so that I see things sooner and am able to fix them faster with my future crops.

Mandala strains claim you grow in excessive heat to 90's with little to no adverse effects

I need some of that!

At the end of the day...you just need to take notes of what you are doing... and track growth rates, yields - taste - aroma... whatever it is you are looking for - figure out your plant and "dial it in" for optimal growth. No One is ever going to be able to tell you what exactly is best for your plant... No One except you.... and you need to track all the variables and figure out optimal.

I'm going to do my best. I have to learn to trust my own judgement more. But that will come in time. There is a lot of confusion at first when you have people telling you different things. It takes a while to sort it all out. I'll get better at it.

 

[StormChaos]

"I do. I'm extremely anal retentive and I tend towards perfectionism. I write notes and journals on everything. I have everything color coordinated. I put stickers on everything with dates and strains."

I wanted to grow this bag seed so I could make all my mistakes and work out all the kinks. Some things I learn will carry over, but I'm going to have to do it all again with each strain. I am hoping that this trial run will at least make me more comfortable with the different things that CAN go wrong, so that I see things sooner and am able to fix them faster with my future crops.

That is exactly how I learned... on my first grow i was growing several plants, in different mediums, soil, soiless, ebb and gro, and dwc using 3 different types of Nutes.

I started my 2nd and 3rd grows (batch) a month before my 1st grow finished flowering. MY 4th as my 1st was finishing.... so by the time I had been growing for 6 months I had already experienced 8 or 9 harvests.

I started playing around with individual 5 gallon bucket dwc systems... experimenting with nutes, ph, topping, LST, temperatures, vegetative time periods, cloning, etc ... now, I am (pretty much) strictly hydro... I am using a couple of Multi Pot DWCs with multi drum res's.... (I do still have some in soiless).

All in all I am perfecting my set up - with minor tweeks... soon (in the next 6 months)I will probably be adding CO2.

I keep all my notes together, stored on a Stealth MXP Bio Memory Stick... its a fancy removable storage device..... kinda pricey but I got it from a friend of mine as a gift... she is an IT Network specialist and got it from her job.

 

[Jasonlee247]

hi there Ziminy. Personally I don't feel that your temps are that bad at all, but if your worried about it have you thought about running your 12hrs lightcycle at night? (if your not already.) ....also, I was wondering if you've checked the undersides of the leaves for Mites or thrips? Some of those pics almost look to have pest damage (But it's hard to tell with the picture quality.) Just wondering really. If your worried about losing aeration with higher water temps you can get pumps at your local Hydroshop that have optional syphen tubes included in the box that you can attach so that they pull air in and aerate directly as they pump your water to your roots. Your pump might even have this feature. You'd have a connector piece (1/2" orwhatever tubing size you have) with a smaller capped connection protruding at a right angle.

also, (and i dont know if anyone mentioned this to you yet, sorry if I'm repeating) Coco is notorious for having issues with calcium, magnesium and iron. Get a calmag product if your not already using one. Add at about half strength at first to your nutrient program and work your way up if needed. See those yellow leaves with greener veins and red stems?? Bingo. Are you using Canna for coco, or standard Canna? Either way you should use a calmag product, but with a coco specific fertilizer you'd want to go a little lighter with the calmag at first.

...sorry to ramble, I tend to do that, But I prefer coco coir, and wont leave home without my calmag. lol (i feel like a damn commercial. )

...oh, and coco seems to do better in general with a bit lower pH.

good luck man!

 

[Ziminy]

I keep all my notes together, stored on a Stealth MXP Bio Memory Stick... its a fancy removable storage device..... kinda pricey but I got it from a friend of mine as a gift... she is an IT Network specialist and got it from her job.

What a great idea. I actually bought myself one for Christmas so I could easily bring files with me when I travel, and to transfer files to my sister's computer easily. But I don't often use it, so that is a good use for it.

Personally I don't feel that your temps are that bad at all, but if your worried about it

That's what most people are telling me, so I'm just not going to worry about it anymore.

....also, I was wondering if you've checked the undersides of the leaves for Mites or thrips? Some of those pics almost look to have pest damage

Fist thing I looked for, but they are clean as a whistle.

Coco is notorious for having issues with calcium, magnesium and iron. Get a calmag product if your not already using one.

Yes, I knew that, but my Hydro guy said that Canna for Coco had solved that and built in extra so you don't have to suppliment. Is your experience that I will still need the suppliment?

Are you using Canna for coco, or standard Canna? Either way you should use a calmag product, but with a coco specific fertilizer you'd want to go a little lighter with the calmag at first.

Okay, that answers my previous question. I'll pick some up tomorrow. Yes, I use all Canna for Coco products once they get into the veg room, all the way through flowering. For some reason, the small plants don't like it. So I'm using GH at the beginning in 1/4 then 1/2 solution while they are under the T5's. (Does that make sense?) Maybe because it's different light?

Well, StinkFinger said to let the strain determine what it wants. That's what they want, so I'm listening. Good to hear from another Coco grower. Are we in the minority? I don't seem to see many posts from Coco growers.

 

[Jasonlee247]

There are a few of us out there. Coco is definitely a very nice hydroponic grow medium ONCE YOU GET IT DIALED, but that can take a while. I missed what lights your using, but if your going from say a T-5 with babies to 600-1000w HPS or MH light your going to see a big difference in your plants nutrient uptake (at least I do...) so with Canna you'd want to REALLY cut back (and even then the extra calcium, iron, magnesium, etc, might be too light for the babies, causing problems. I dont use canna, so I cant say for sure. I believe that you can go to their website and ask all the questions you desire, and they'll help you out! I would stick to nutrient questions, and not get plant specific, you know? But I talked to them a long time ago and they seemed knowledgable and nice enough.

CANNA Club | CANNA UK

here's a dosage calculator: Grow Guide | CANNA UK

They recommend a pH of 5.5-6.2 for canna. I like around 5.5-5.8 personally with my coir. (sometimes 6.0 if I'm lazy. lol)

 

[Ziminy]

Thank you for the links. I'm an information whore.
I'll have a look around, see if they talk about the Cal/Mag thing, if I don't see anything, I'll ask. Love that interactive grow chart.

 

[StinkFinger]

Z.

Been involved in a thread with similar setup to yours....Surprise res temp issues. Wanted you to have this info for future reference.

Permalink to Post
Deep Water Culture Grow Journal, 1st Timer, No Experience

Just wanted you to see some other suggestions other guys have mentioned. I also posted up to that thread a cheaper chiller, $125.00 and the link is contained in the post.

Have a great weekend man!



SF