Leaf discolorations during flowering

[Ziminy]

Is this normal in Flowering, and if not, what is it?

Hydro Grow
-------------
3 Bag Seed, 1 Mango
4 plants
27 days into Flower
Indoor
Hydro
10 Gal
74 Degrees
Coco Fiber
3 gal pot
400 HPS (1)
Oscillating Fan
PH is 6.2
2wice daily watering.
Full strength Canna A&B
3x3' growing area in closet

Edit to add: I have a Mango mother plant in my veg room on the same nutrients and it's doing fine. It is under 8x 22" T5 blue bulbs.

 

[Ziminy]

I've looked through hundreds of pictures of different diseases and pests. The only thing that even looks close is PH problems. I've had them at 6.4 the entire grow.

I've lowered it to 5.8 on advice from my Hydroponics store but could somebody PLEASE say something?

They are 3 weeks from harvest and I really do not want them to die.

 

[Roseman]

IF those are only the lower, larger fan leaves, it is very normal and common. Around the 3rd week of Flowering, with low Nitrogen level Flowering Nutes, it happens to the lower fan leaves on all grows.

It appears to be happening to some upper bud leaves, also called Trim Leaves. It is not nute burn, since I don't see it ONLY on the tips.

What are the water temps and grow area temps?

Did they quit eating or drinking much water. Is that true? IF so, I can help you get them back on track.

 

[Ziminy]

You have no idea how relieved I am. Thank you so much for responding.

All the bud leaves look great. The discoloration happened gradually at first, I started getting stressed about it when it seemed to be getting worse....and faster.

And as far as water, they started drinking a lot more around the first week of flowering and it has not slowed down yet. Water and room temp is 74. Close to the light it is around 82, but there are buds growing right up inside the hood, so I know there is not a temperature problem. In fact the buds inside the hood are largest and doing the best.

Also, I use Canna nutrients. Specially designed for coco coir. They are fed the same exact mix during veg and flower. So they should still have the same amount of Nitrogen available from nutrients.

Hard to take pictures under the HPS, they turn out so yellow. I tried to block it by putting white plastic between the bud and light, so excuse the bad ones. This is one month into flowering. The (3) plants are 3 and a half feet high (1 meter) and on the largest I have counted 94 individual buds. I don't expect them all to get big. Some of the smaller buds are only a week old.

 

[Roseman]

Plant Moisture Stress - Symptoms and Solutions


you gotta read that one, your water is too hot.

 

[Roseman]

And read this so I don't have to type so much:

HELPP Save Ready 2 Harvest**MULT SIGNS**DISEASE OR PESTS? *EXPERTS OPINIONS NEEDED*


those curling tips is the clue here. You need to drain it, replace with pH balanced 5.6 to 6.0 water and NO nutes for 2 days, then go to 3/4 nutes and get the water below 70 at the highest.

Are the roots getting mushy? slimy? snotty?

 

[Ziminy]

Will read now and respond.

 

[StinkFinger]

I've had them at 6.4 the entire grow.

I've lowered it to 5.8 on advice from my Hydroponics store but could somebody PLEASE say something?

Z.

6.4 Your entire grow?

You've gotten great advice from Roseman.

I'm venturing a guess that a lot of your issues are because you've been running on the very upper end of the PH recommended scale for hydro and you've basically "turned off" certain essential nutrients the plant needs.

The 5.8 number is nice and conservative, I think you'll start to see some solid results.

Best of luck man.
SF

 

[Ziminy]

Hmm, I don't see any explanation of water temp. Am I missing something? I read both posts all the way through, neither seems to apply to me.

I am on a drip/drain system, so my reservoir is cleaned and refilled each time it empties. My water is not recycled, it is thrown out. Every watering is with brand new nutrified water. Old, used water does not go back into the reservoir, it drains into a bucket that is then dumped.

70 degrees? Are you kidding? I would freeze to death if I kept my house at 70. I keep the house at 74 until high summer and then it's most comfortable at 76. I live in Florida. Air conditioning works different depending on outdoor humidity. I'm not going to bore you with 10 pages explaining air conditioning, but suffice it to say that if I put the house at 70 it would be so dry that my lips would start cracking and we would be cold all the time. Geography seems to matter. (My sister lives in Seattle and when her house is at 70, it is too hot.)

Bottom line is that it is not realistic to keep my house lower than 73 degrees right now. (uncomfortable, but I could live with it) But a month from now, 73 will be too dry and too cold. Is there some other method of getting the water colder? I have no desire to spend all day feeding the tank Ice Cubes. And I am not going to spend hundreds of dollars on a water cooling system. (I looked at one for my fish tank once, and it was $1200)

There is a window A/C in the room that the plant closet is in. I could turn that on to get the room and water cooler, but......
A) I wont be able to sleep in there anymore
B) It will be extremely dry and won't that cause problems?

Also, my mother plant (in another room) is kept on the same nutrients and water is at the same temperature. She looks fine.

And all my clones and babies get the same 74 degree water and they are all healthy and happy. (Grow link in my sig)

I already flushed the plants with plain water for 2 days when I decided to lower the PH. They are on 3/4 nutrients already because I was afraid the problem might be nutrient burn.

So, everything should at least be reset at this point. I guess I just need to understand the water thing.

 

[Ziminy]

Z.
6.4 Your entire grow?

The 5.8 number is nice and conservative, I think you'll start to see some solid results.

Yes, the whole grow.
My Hydro guy was very upset when I told him I was doing 6.4
It was the recommended PH on a lot of growing forums.
I wasn't thinking it was different for Hydro.
I was just being a bonehead.
I sure hope that solves it.

 

[Roseman]

HELPP Save Ready 2 Harvest**MULT SIGNS**DISEASE OR PESTS? *EXPERTS OPINIONS NEEDED*

as pointed out in that link, and as pointed out by StinkFinger, he had and you have nute lock, Nutritional Lockout, resulting in all kinds of deficiencies, resulting in curled tips and spotty colored leaves.. Plants need a pH that goes up and down, from 5.6 to 6.5, eating different foods at different pH levels.

And that 74 degree water is too hot.

 

[ChicagoJoe]

you dont have to lower your AC to 70. You'd freeze.
He's saying to lower the res temps. If ice cubes is too annoying for you, how about a couple of 1 or 2 liter bottles. Freeze 2. Keep 1 in freezer and 1 in res. Then just swap them when the one in the res thaws half way.
It's worth a try.

 

[Ziminy]

Plants need a pH that goes up and down, from 5.6 to 6.5, eating different foods at different pH levels.

And that 74 degree water is too hot.

Interesting. First time I'm hearing about either of these two things.

ChicagoJoe has a solution for the water problem. (are thousands of pot growers really filling their freezers with bottles of water to keep their reservoirs cool?) A VERY annoying solution, but it's something I can do.

How do I make my PH go up and down?
It does not do this naturally, for me anyway.
Once I set the PH, the reservoir stays within .1 of that until it is empty.
Should I be changing the PH every day?
High one day, low the next?
Or.....raise it gradually like:

Monday 5.6
Tuesday 5.7
Wednesday 5.8
Up to 6.5 and then reverse it in the other direction?

And thanx to both of you for trying to help. Even if the information is confusing the crap out of me. +rep

I need a bong hit.

 

[Ziminy]

Okay, I just put a gallon jug in the freezer and it occurred to me that the water in the reservoir will be cool, but within 10 minutes of the plant being watered, the water in the pot will be back at 74 degrees.

If it's going to end up 74, why can't it start out at 74?
And why was that temp okay for the 2 month veg?
And why is my Mother plant going CRAZY LOVE on the same temp water?

I feel like Alice. The whole world has gone topsy turvy and nothing makes logical sense anymore.

 

[Jasonlee247]

check the undersides of your leaves for spidermites or thrips too, just incase. You'll see little red, brown or black spots and maybe webs if you got them. they usually start out near the bottom of your plants too. You may need a magnifying glass.

 

[ledtester]

Okay, I just put a gallon jug in the freezer and it occurred to me that the water in the reservoir will be cool, but within 10 minutes of the plant being watered, the water in the pot will be back at 74 degrees.

If it's going to end up 74, why can't it start out at 74?
And why was that temp okay for the 2 month veg?
And why is my Mother plant going CRAZY LOVE on the same temp water?

I feel like Alice. The whole world has gone topsy turvy and nothing makes logical sense anymore.

Don't freak brother we'll save them...LOL...here's your problem.....10 Gal
74 Degrees
Coco Fiber
3 gal pot
400 HPS (1)
Oscillating Fan
PH is 6.2
2wice daily watering. First 74 for rez is ok but try and keep it around 67-70....here read up on your growing medium because twice a day waterings I think are too much especially in flowering,,,Coco Coir Info to get an accurate reading of ph and ec you have to check your roots...get a plastic syringe and put some airline on the end ...fill your pots until the water is just escaping the bottom and then take a reading from your roots in the bottom 2/3rds of the pot. then flush the plants to start over again and adjust the ph and ec accordingly.

 

[StormChaos]

Your only 27 days into flower... you shouldn't be experiencing deficiencies when running 100% str nutes.

I think it is a combination of your PH possibly causing some nute lock out and nute burn... Every Strain Different... Just because a MFG says use these nutes at this str doesn't necessarily mean they are the right amount for your strain... some plants are hogs and some are very light feeders.... You need to "dial in" the correct PPM for your particular plants.

Case in-point.... I have some Afghani hash plants that can easily handle 1800 to 2000 ppm and still be hungry... and then I have some Mandala Satori... that like it between 800 and 1200... 2000ppm would absolutely kill them.

Also... you need to adjust your Nute Program based on Veg and Bloom... you stated you are using the same program for both your mother and your flowering plants... that would seem to be the obvious answer.

The slightly high res temp is going to encourage root rot and micro organisms, bacteria, algae, etc.... and is going to have a negligible impact on your plant.

With the PH issue... I like to start at 5.4 and let it gradually rise to 6.0 or so during the course of the week... by topping off with a higher PH'd water.... this allows different nutrients to have their ideal PH for a period of time and encourages them to be absorbed during the course of the week....

 

[StormChaos]

Is this normal in Flowering, and if not, what is it?

Hydro Grow
-------------
3 Bag Seed, 1 Mango
4 plants
27 days into Flower
Indoor
Hydro
10 Gal
74 Degrees
Coco Fiber
3 gal pot
400 HPS (1)
Oscillating Fan
PH is 6.2
2wice daily watering.
Full strength Canna A&B
3x3' growing area in closet

Edit to add: I have a Mango mother plant in my veg room on the same nutrients and it's doing fine. It is under 8x 22" T5 blue bulbs.

Your only 27 days into flower... you shouldn't be experiencing deficiencies when running 100% str nutes.

I think it is a combination of your PH possibly causing some nute lock out and nute burn... Every Strain Different... Just because a MFG says use these nutes at this str doesn't necessarily mean they are the right amount for your strain... some plants are hogs and some are very light feeders.... You need to "dial in" the correct PPM for your particular plants.

Case in-point.... I have some Afghani hash plants that can easily handle 1800 to 2000 ppm and still be hungry... and then I have some Mandala Satori... that like it between 800 and 1200... 2000ppm would absolutely kill them.

Also... you need to adjust your Nute Program based on Veg and Bloom... you stated you are using the same program for both your mother and your flowering plants... that would seem to be the obvious answer.

The slightly high res temp is going to encourage root rot and micro organisms, bacteria, algae, etc.... and is going to have a negligible impact on your plant.

With the PH issue... I like to start at 5.4 and let it gradually rise to 6.0 or so during the course of the week... by topping off with a higher PH'd water.... this allows different nutrients to have their ideal PH for a period of time and encourages them to be absorbed during the course of the week....

 

[wtfruthinking]

HELPP Save Ready 2 Harvest**MULT SIGNS**DISEASE OR PESTS? *EXPERTS OPINIONS NEEDED*

as pointed out in that link, and as pointed out by StinkFinger, he had and you have nute lock, Nutritional Lockout, resulting in all kinds of deficiencies, resulting in curled tips and spotty colored leaves.. Plants need a pH that goes up and down, from 5.6 to 6.5, eating different foods at different pH levels.

And that 74 degree water is too hot.

I'm the one with the issues and Roseman really helped me out. I'm close to harvest and the same thing happened to me. I'm currently flushing now and they all seem to be doing so much better. The only issue I'm experiencing is my ph level (new water) is increasing greatly on a daily basis and I have to monitor it very closely. I hope you take Roseman/LED and the majority of everyone's advice. Good luck w/ your grow.

 

[Ziminy]

With the PH issue... I like to start at 5.4 and let it gradually rise to 6.0 or so during the course of the week... by topping off with a higher PH'd water.... this allows different nutrients to have their ideal PH for a period of time and encourages them to be absorbed during the course of the week....

Thank you! That is a solution I can work with.

First 74 for rez is ok but try and keep it around 67-70....

Yeah, I'm trying to find some way to do that (other than the freezer bottle shuffle. I'm not willing to do that for the rest of my life) but nobody is making any other suggestions.

twice a day waterings I think are too much especially in flowering.

Yeah, I cut and pasted part of that and forgot to change it. I've been on once a day watering pretty much the whole time. Otherwise they would be a soggy mess.

I hope you take Roseman/LED and the majority of everyone's advice

I'm trying. You can tell a man he has to fly to the moon, but if you don't tell him how to build the rocket, he's never going to make it. I've got a workable solution for making the PH go up and down. Now I just need one for making the res temp cooler.

And thanx everyone. I'm really happy to be getting all these problems solved now with this Bag Seed test crop, so that when I grow the good stuff it will be smooth surfing.