Jim Finnel
Fallen Cannabis Warrior & Ex News Moderator
Transcript: The Debate Over Legalizing Marijuana
Tavis Smiley, Guest Host
SMILEY: The president takes action and has some asking this -- is he taking a turn to the right?
Plus, will Obama make history and push to make marijuana use legal?
Not if opponents can help it. Marijuana -- the debate with Montel Williams, Stephen Baldwin and others next on LARRY KING LIVE.
Good evening.
I'm Tavis Smiley sitting in for Larry tonight.
SMILEY: President Obama yesterday, speak of the president, also, as we all know by now, held an online town hall meeting yesterday. He noted the Internet community had a high interest in having him answer a question on legalizing marijuana to help the economy. So he addressed it.
Take a look.
( BEGIN VIDEO CLIP )
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: When can we expect the jobs that have been outsourced to other countries to come back and be made available to the unemployed workers here in the United States?
OBAMA: Not all of these jobs are going to come back. And it probably wouldn't be good for our economy for a bunch of these jobs to come back, because, frankly, there's no --
( END VIDEO CLIP )
SMILEY: That was during the town hall meeting, Gary, when he talked about marijuana question. We didn't get to that in that particular clip. I want to ask you about it, because we're going to debate this later in the show with Stephen Baldwin and Montel Williams, your stance though on whether or not the time is right to have a conversation about legalizing?
( CROSS TALK )
SMILEY: I'm going to explain that later. What about the conversation?
SHANDLING: Isn't it a conversation that we don't want to legalize -- that the president -- don't legalize marijuana in order to stimulate - -- it's not an economy stimulator?
SMILEY: It's not.
SHANDLING: I'll oppose it on the economic level, first, which is, as far as I know, it's going to make the economy more sluggish, sit on the couch and eat Doritos. It's pretty common sense. I think some of this stuff is more common sense. I'm still not hearing answers. I watch CNN a lot. I like to watch people talk about all these issues that I'm sitting here now talking about, except I'm not pretending to have the answers. I can't believe how freely people are willing to --
SMILEY: That's the point you made earlier, though, that we don't know what the answer is, and that's OK. As long as we're trying to figure out -- SHANDLING: So everyone's trying to jump on this and we're trying to make it a story. And I know we're in trouble and I was watching that flood, thinking, my god, it's close to biblical prophesy. It feels like things are pretty dark, taking a bad turn. And I'm thinking, what does it say in the Bible. How far does the stock market have to go down before -- before Jesus comes back and says, I warned you!
SMILEY: I've got 30 seconds, Arianna. Let me ask -- I've been anxious to ask you this question specifically, whether or not a president can be over-exposed. President Obama, whether it's Leno, whether it's CNN, whether it's "Face the Nation," whether it's this town hall meeting online -- can a president be over-exposed?
HUFFINGTON: Tavis, I think this is a non-issue. No, I don't think he can be over-exposed. I think he should go on any television show, do online chats, give press conference, all that is good. But I do want to answer that question about our failed drug war, because it is a very important criminal justice question. It's not a question about our economy.
And with what's happening in Mexico, with what's happening on our border there, this is clearly a moment, as senator Jim Webb said, to rethink our failed drug war, which has been a war on minorities. And I was hoping that the president would actually dare to take this on, because it has become the third rail of American politics.
SMILEY: Let me thank Arianna Huffington, David Frum, and Gary Shandling for a spirited conversation tonight about the issues of the week.
Is the debate over medical marijuana almost over or just getting started? On this show, just getting started. More on it in a moment on LARRY KING LIVE after this.
( COMMERCIAL BREAK )
( BEGIN VIDEO CLIP )
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Federal agents with guns raided Lynch's business and home.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Seconds later, Charles heard banging at his front door.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They said, search warrant! Open up! Search warrant!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Deputies carried boxes of evidence out of the dispensary around 2:30 this afternoon.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Federal authorities seized 30 pounds of marijuana.
( END VIDEO CLIP )
SMILEY: Marijuana was in the news this week, big-time. And Charlie Lynch was in the thick of it. He's emerged as a key figure in the national debate over medical marijuana. Charlie was convicted on federal charges in connection with his operation of a medical marijuana dispensary. His sentencing this week was postponed. Charlie Lynch and his attorneys, Reuven Cohen and John Littrell, are with us tonight to tell us about what happened, or what didn't happen this week, why it was postponed, and what it all means.
Glad to have you gentleman here. Charlie, let me start with you. What were you expecting to happen this week that obviously got postponed.
CHARLIE LYNCH, CONVICTED FOR DISPENSING MARIJUANA: I thought I was going to be sentenced to jail time, probably in the area of five years or more. And when the judge decided he wanted more information about the new policy, everybody's really surprised by his decision to find out more information about the new policy.
SMILEY: Ruben, from a legal standpoint, what happened this week?
REUVEN COHEN, LYNCH'S ATTORNEY: What happened was that Judge Wu asked for the local prosecutors to go back to main justice in D.C. and get some sort of clarification on what Attorney General Holder has been saying over the course of the past three, four weeks. It's a matter of some debate. What we've been hearing from the attorney general is that somehow now, in order to be prosecuted under the Holder administration -- the Obama administration, you need to have both violated federal and state law, which is a sea change, a landmark change from what has really been the status quo under the Bush administration.
SMILEY: Of a zero tolerance policy.
COHEN: Of a zero tolerance policy. At our trial, the federal government, after millions of dollars, was able to prove that Charlie was dispensing marijuana from his marijuana dispensary. He had done that in complete compliance with state law. He had the mayor on his side. He had the local police department often coming in for coffee, the city attorneys.
What the government does in all of these cases, or used to do, and now I think won't do anymore, is move to keep people like Charlie and lawyers like us from talking about compliance with state law. They used to try really hard. And they tried quite hard in our case to keep us from bringing that to the forefront, because no jury really wants to convict someone like Charlie Lynch for doing what is legal here in California.
SMILEY: But what does this mean, though, John, for the conversation that we have been having in America for some time now about medical marijuana? This change from the Obama administration -- from the Bush administration, rather, to the Obama administration, which, again, your colleague seems to suggest may change how they prosecute or don't prosecute these cases. What does this postponement mean for medical marijuana and the conversation about it in this country?
JOHN LITTRELL, LYNCH'S ATTORNEY: Well, we're going to find out, in terms of what it means for Charlie Lynch. But I think this is a change that everyone has seen coming for a long time. I think that politicians are coming to their senses. I think that, with this administration, we're going to start to see some practical approaches to medical marijuana. I think what that's ultimately going to mean is legalizing it, making it available to patients who need it. I think that the administration is not going to be interested anymore in directing resources to prosecuting people like Charlie Lynch, when we have real, harmful drugs and the violence associated with that order.
SMILEY: Charlie, obviously the case got postponed this week. Give me your sense now of how you feel about medical marijuana, your role in it. Do you feel apologetic? Would you still do it if you could? Give me a sense of how you feel?
LYNCH: I kind of feel like the federal government has been waging a civil war against the people of the state of California. And I'm hoping that the Obama administration is going to end that civil war and stop the prosecution, stop the raids, pull our brothers and sisters out of prison, and also not send me as a prisoner of this war to jail.
SMILEY: If you end up not having to go to jail, and you, through whatever means -- this case, rather, gets kicked out, you ready to go back into business again? You look forward to doing that again? Have you learned something from this that you don't want to do this anymore?
LYNCH: I felt like I was abiding by the California state laws. And if I was able to reopen the dispensary with the blessing of the city, like I had before, and I knew the federal government was not going to interfere with our constitutional and god-given rights, I would definitely seriously consider opening a dispensary again. But I've got this other challenge ahead of me, you know, a jail thing still.
SMILEY: That's an understatement. I'm glad to have you on. Charlie, Reuven and John, thanks for coming on the program.
I should mention, before we go to break, this program, LARRY KING LIVE, reached out to the U.S. Attorney's Office, Mr. Holder, for a comment on Mr. Lynch's situation. A spokesperson declined, citing Justice Department's policy of not commenting on pending cases.
We've got more here. We'll check back on the situation in Fargo in 60 seconds. And then, don't forget, Stephen Baldwin and Montel Williams go at it about marijuana use. Don't go away.
( COMMERCIAL BREAK )
( NEWS BREAK )
( COMMERCIAL BREAK )
( NEWS BREAK )
SMILEY: The debate over medical marijuana is an emotional one. With us tonight, representing the pro-side of this conversation, Montel Williams, host of "Montel Across America," debuting April 6th on Air America. He has, as many of us know, MS, and has very strong feelings about those in pain being allowed to access and use the drug. He wrote the book "Living Well Emotionally."
Stephen Baldwin, on the other side, so to speak, is an actor, talk radio host, and author. He opposes the legalization of marijuana. Montel, Stephen, glad to have you both on the program.
( CROSS TALK )
SMILEY: Montel, let me start with you. Very simply and very directly, why?
MONTEL WILLIAMS, TALK SHOW HOST: You know, I want to make sure that we get this characterized exactly right. I have never been a proponent of legalizing marijuana. I have been a proponent of making sure that a doctor who is trained and a specialist who understands how to prescribe medication, if that doctor chooses to prescribe medication for his patient, and that patient happens to be me, and he can put me on a morphine drip and he also says, I also recommend this medication, then he should be able to do so. And the state should allow him to prescribe this, and I should be able to get it.
But here's what's so odd about this, we talk about this topic, we don't ever talk about it from a place of truth. We always start with a lot of rumors and falsehoods. But the truth is, on May 10th of this year, the federal government celebrated the 30th anniversary of a program, Tavis, that was started under the first Bush administration, where the United States government has been dispensing marijuana every single month for 30 years to 25 people across the United States. Unfortunately, in the last five to six years, it's now down to five people because the other people have passed away.
Our government grows it. It certifies it. It puts a USDA stamp on it. And every single month, our government sends that medication out to five people across the United States. You can check this yourself. As a matter of fact, it was called the Compassionate Investigational New Drug Program. It started 30 years ago May 10th. Every single month, through a program at the University of Mississippi, we the federal government and your taxpayer dollars goes to a program to grow marijuana and dispense it.
Our country dispenses marijuana to patients who are ill. But, unfortunately, that program got cut off to just now five people. I ask you this question and I ask this of Stephen: I'm not trying to legalize marijuana, I'm just trying to say, here's a government that's supposed to do no harm, a government that's supposed to be compassionate to all its citizens; what right does this government have to say that we're going to give medication to five people and let them be pain free, and for all the rest of you, you go to hell, we're not going to help you, the program's closed? That's not appropriate in America today. SMILEY: I got a break in 30 seconds. I don't want to cut you off. I'll come right to you and let you respond to the question that Montel Williams poses. We'll take a break. I don't want to cut you off. We'll take a break and come back and I'll come right to you and let you respond to the question that Montel Williams' poses. Montel, thanks or doing my job on LARRY KING LIVE. We'll take a break and hear Stephen Baldwin's response in just a moment.
( COMMERCIAL BREAK )
SMILEY: It's the marijuana debate, featuring Montel Williams and Stephen Baldwin. We heard Montel's point of view before the break. Mr. Baldwin, the floor or the microphone is yours, sir.
STEPHEN BALDWIN, ACTOR: Thank you very much, Tavis. It's great to be here. First of all, this isn't even a debate between Montel and I. We got crazy love for one another. I have a lot of respect for him as well.
I can't speak for the government, Montel, but I do want to say this: it's obvious, America wants its marijuana. This is a fascinating topic now. But my question is, how do we control it? Obviously, there's a movement that's coming. It's beyond just the legalization of it medically, Montel. And that's the problem that I have.
Let me finish -- please, like Jack Cafferty said earlier on this network, he's sober 20 years and he doesn't want his kids to do what he did, which is what all kids do, drink and smoke a joint. You have to understand, alcohol in this country can only profit the government in taxation, a maximum annually of 25 billion a year. But the negative cause and effect is over 150 billion. How are we going to prevent that if this ball starts rolling.
WILLIAMS: Stephen, I will agree with you on all those premises. I've got to tell you something, your tax dollars have paid for 30 years for the United States government to dispense this drug through pharmacies around the country. They're already doing it. It's not like we have to invent something new. It's been done and controlled. No one's stolen one can in 30 years.
BALDWIN: I don't know about all that.
WILLIAMS: Also, 13 states in this country right now -- the state of California has medicinal marijuana centers across the state, where they have -- they give them licenses and they license people to do it. Here's part of the problem, Tavis, I've got to tell you. All you have to do is ask some smart people. And I believe I'm one of them. I will go down and show you how we can open up dispensaries, how the government can control this and contain it, because, look, I don't want it in the hands of my children either. Stephen, you just said it yourself.
Look, if my daughter and your daughter are laying on gurney in a hospital right now and they're both ill, they're both hurting. And the federal government walks in and says Montel, here, your child can take this to feel better, I'm sorry, Stephen, the heck with your daughter, you would revolt. America should revolt now.
SMILEY: Montel, it seems to me -- I'm not arguing a point, I'm just asking a question. It seems to me that if you take the government out of it -- and so many of us believe the government is too involved in our lives, in too many respects and aspects in the first place -- why control it request when government can just legalize it. Or put it another way, why not just decriminalize it?
WILLIAMS: Here's the thing, there are people smarter minds than me that know the answer how we continue it even if we make it a commercial industry. I'm not against that. If that's what's going to help a doctor give me medication, I'm sorry, I've got to beg for things that make my life better. The bottom line is, right this minute, we have a two-tiered system for 30 years.
It's not like this was yesterday. Ladies and gentlemen, you need to listen up and do the research yourself. For 30 years, our government sends out marijuana. Is this not an egregious offense, the same government that locks up a child or someone with a joint in their pocket, is actually a drug dealer. They are dispensing it every single month.
SMILEY: What about that distinction between legalizing and decriminalizing? What about the latter?
BALDWIN: I disagree with the latter as well. You're talking to a guy 20 years sober, Tavis, off of drugs and alcohol. I know the affects of marijuana firsthand. I can tell you right now, if this starts to become something that is more readily available to our youth, the ramifications and repercussions of that in the next 30 years will be beyond our comprehension.
SMILEY: Do you buy the argument that marijuana leads to harder stuff?
BALDWIN: That's a fact.
( CROSS TALK )
BALDWIN: Last time I was on the show with Ron Paul, you wouldn't believe the e-mails I got, people are going to kill me, shoot me, all kinds of stuff. America wants it's marijuana, man, I get it. But I am just worried -- I am more concerned for the future and the youth of America. And this drug, which is a very dangerous drug -- it's not a casual thing. It's very dangerous -- is negatively effecting our youth.
MONTEL: Steve, let me just say, 30 seconds, right now, London, Canada, there's a product that's on the marketplace in London right now. It's called Sabotex ( ph ). It's made from marijuana. We have outlawed even the research around marijuana in America, unless the federal government themselves does it.
Here's the problem, right now, why don't we have an honest discussion about this? If we need to take the government out of it, do so. We could approach the pharmaceutical industry. There's money being made overseas with products that are derivatives of marijuana. What I'm trying to say to you, please, don't throw out the baby with the bath water. There are some of us who need the medication and we should have a right to it.
BALDWIN: Maybe you and I should get together and create some kind of conference about this.
WILLIAMS: I am ready. Not only am I ready for a conference, I can show you how to do it.
SMILEY: I'll show up and moderate it, how about that.
BALDWIN: Do it.
WILLIAMS: Love it, Tavis. Thank you.
SMILEY: Steven, nice to have you on. Stephen Baldwin. Montel Williams, nice to have you on as well.
WILLIAMS: Good to see you, Stephen, my friend.
BALDWIN: God bless.
SMILEY: Larry King back in his chair, as he should be, on Monday night. Larry, thanks for letting me sit in tonight. CNN continues it's coverage of the drug violence in Mexico. Time now for Anderson Cooper, on the border tonight with "AC 360" on the war next door.
Source
Tavis Smiley, Guest Host
SMILEY: The president takes action and has some asking this -- is he taking a turn to the right?
Plus, will Obama make history and push to make marijuana use legal?
Not if opponents can help it. Marijuana -- the debate with Montel Williams, Stephen Baldwin and others next on LARRY KING LIVE.
Good evening.
I'm Tavis Smiley sitting in for Larry tonight.
SMILEY: President Obama yesterday, speak of the president, also, as we all know by now, held an online town hall meeting yesterday. He noted the Internet community had a high interest in having him answer a question on legalizing marijuana to help the economy. So he addressed it.
Take a look.
( BEGIN VIDEO CLIP )
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: When can we expect the jobs that have been outsourced to other countries to come back and be made available to the unemployed workers here in the United States?
OBAMA: Not all of these jobs are going to come back. And it probably wouldn't be good for our economy for a bunch of these jobs to come back, because, frankly, there's no --
( END VIDEO CLIP )
SMILEY: That was during the town hall meeting, Gary, when he talked about marijuana question. We didn't get to that in that particular clip. I want to ask you about it, because we're going to debate this later in the show with Stephen Baldwin and Montel Williams, your stance though on whether or not the time is right to have a conversation about legalizing?
( CROSS TALK )
SMILEY: I'm going to explain that later. What about the conversation?
SHANDLING: Isn't it a conversation that we don't want to legalize -- that the president -- don't legalize marijuana in order to stimulate - -- it's not an economy stimulator?
SMILEY: It's not.
SHANDLING: I'll oppose it on the economic level, first, which is, as far as I know, it's going to make the economy more sluggish, sit on the couch and eat Doritos. It's pretty common sense. I think some of this stuff is more common sense. I'm still not hearing answers. I watch CNN a lot. I like to watch people talk about all these issues that I'm sitting here now talking about, except I'm not pretending to have the answers. I can't believe how freely people are willing to --
SMILEY: That's the point you made earlier, though, that we don't know what the answer is, and that's OK. As long as we're trying to figure out -- SHANDLING: So everyone's trying to jump on this and we're trying to make it a story. And I know we're in trouble and I was watching that flood, thinking, my god, it's close to biblical prophesy. It feels like things are pretty dark, taking a bad turn. And I'm thinking, what does it say in the Bible. How far does the stock market have to go down before -- before Jesus comes back and says, I warned you!
SMILEY: I've got 30 seconds, Arianna. Let me ask -- I've been anxious to ask you this question specifically, whether or not a president can be over-exposed. President Obama, whether it's Leno, whether it's CNN, whether it's "Face the Nation," whether it's this town hall meeting online -- can a president be over-exposed?
HUFFINGTON: Tavis, I think this is a non-issue. No, I don't think he can be over-exposed. I think he should go on any television show, do online chats, give press conference, all that is good. But I do want to answer that question about our failed drug war, because it is a very important criminal justice question. It's not a question about our economy.
And with what's happening in Mexico, with what's happening on our border there, this is clearly a moment, as senator Jim Webb said, to rethink our failed drug war, which has been a war on minorities. And I was hoping that the president would actually dare to take this on, because it has become the third rail of American politics.
SMILEY: Let me thank Arianna Huffington, David Frum, and Gary Shandling for a spirited conversation tonight about the issues of the week.
Is the debate over medical marijuana almost over or just getting started? On this show, just getting started. More on it in a moment on LARRY KING LIVE after this.
( COMMERCIAL BREAK )
( BEGIN VIDEO CLIP )
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Federal agents with guns raided Lynch's business and home.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Seconds later, Charles heard banging at his front door.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They said, search warrant! Open up! Search warrant!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Deputies carried boxes of evidence out of the dispensary around 2:30 this afternoon.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Federal authorities seized 30 pounds of marijuana.
( END VIDEO CLIP )
SMILEY: Marijuana was in the news this week, big-time. And Charlie Lynch was in the thick of it. He's emerged as a key figure in the national debate over medical marijuana. Charlie was convicted on federal charges in connection with his operation of a medical marijuana dispensary. His sentencing this week was postponed. Charlie Lynch and his attorneys, Reuven Cohen and John Littrell, are with us tonight to tell us about what happened, or what didn't happen this week, why it was postponed, and what it all means.
Glad to have you gentleman here. Charlie, let me start with you. What were you expecting to happen this week that obviously got postponed.
CHARLIE LYNCH, CONVICTED FOR DISPENSING MARIJUANA: I thought I was going to be sentenced to jail time, probably in the area of five years or more. And when the judge decided he wanted more information about the new policy, everybody's really surprised by his decision to find out more information about the new policy.
SMILEY: Ruben, from a legal standpoint, what happened this week?
REUVEN COHEN, LYNCH'S ATTORNEY: What happened was that Judge Wu asked for the local prosecutors to go back to main justice in D.C. and get some sort of clarification on what Attorney General Holder has been saying over the course of the past three, four weeks. It's a matter of some debate. What we've been hearing from the attorney general is that somehow now, in order to be prosecuted under the Holder administration -- the Obama administration, you need to have both violated federal and state law, which is a sea change, a landmark change from what has really been the status quo under the Bush administration.
SMILEY: Of a zero tolerance policy.
COHEN: Of a zero tolerance policy. At our trial, the federal government, after millions of dollars, was able to prove that Charlie was dispensing marijuana from his marijuana dispensary. He had done that in complete compliance with state law. He had the mayor on his side. He had the local police department often coming in for coffee, the city attorneys.
What the government does in all of these cases, or used to do, and now I think won't do anymore, is move to keep people like Charlie and lawyers like us from talking about compliance with state law. They used to try really hard. And they tried quite hard in our case to keep us from bringing that to the forefront, because no jury really wants to convict someone like Charlie Lynch for doing what is legal here in California.
SMILEY: But what does this mean, though, John, for the conversation that we have been having in America for some time now about medical marijuana? This change from the Obama administration -- from the Bush administration, rather, to the Obama administration, which, again, your colleague seems to suggest may change how they prosecute or don't prosecute these cases. What does this postponement mean for medical marijuana and the conversation about it in this country?
JOHN LITTRELL, LYNCH'S ATTORNEY: Well, we're going to find out, in terms of what it means for Charlie Lynch. But I think this is a change that everyone has seen coming for a long time. I think that politicians are coming to their senses. I think that, with this administration, we're going to start to see some practical approaches to medical marijuana. I think what that's ultimately going to mean is legalizing it, making it available to patients who need it. I think that the administration is not going to be interested anymore in directing resources to prosecuting people like Charlie Lynch, when we have real, harmful drugs and the violence associated with that order.
SMILEY: Charlie, obviously the case got postponed this week. Give me your sense now of how you feel about medical marijuana, your role in it. Do you feel apologetic? Would you still do it if you could? Give me a sense of how you feel?
LYNCH: I kind of feel like the federal government has been waging a civil war against the people of the state of California. And I'm hoping that the Obama administration is going to end that civil war and stop the prosecution, stop the raids, pull our brothers and sisters out of prison, and also not send me as a prisoner of this war to jail.
SMILEY: If you end up not having to go to jail, and you, through whatever means -- this case, rather, gets kicked out, you ready to go back into business again? You look forward to doing that again? Have you learned something from this that you don't want to do this anymore?
LYNCH: I felt like I was abiding by the California state laws. And if I was able to reopen the dispensary with the blessing of the city, like I had before, and I knew the federal government was not going to interfere with our constitutional and god-given rights, I would definitely seriously consider opening a dispensary again. But I've got this other challenge ahead of me, you know, a jail thing still.
SMILEY: That's an understatement. I'm glad to have you on. Charlie, Reuven and John, thanks for coming on the program.
I should mention, before we go to break, this program, LARRY KING LIVE, reached out to the U.S. Attorney's Office, Mr. Holder, for a comment on Mr. Lynch's situation. A spokesperson declined, citing Justice Department's policy of not commenting on pending cases.
We've got more here. We'll check back on the situation in Fargo in 60 seconds. And then, don't forget, Stephen Baldwin and Montel Williams go at it about marijuana use. Don't go away.
( COMMERCIAL BREAK )
( NEWS BREAK )
( COMMERCIAL BREAK )
( NEWS BREAK )
SMILEY: The debate over medical marijuana is an emotional one. With us tonight, representing the pro-side of this conversation, Montel Williams, host of "Montel Across America," debuting April 6th on Air America. He has, as many of us know, MS, and has very strong feelings about those in pain being allowed to access and use the drug. He wrote the book "Living Well Emotionally."
Stephen Baldwin, on the other side, so to speak, is an actor, talk radio host, and author. He opposes the legalization of marijuana. Montel, Stephen, glad to have you both on the program.
( CROSS TALK )
SMILEY: Montel, let me start with you. Very simply and very directly, why?
MONTEL WILLIAMS, TALK SHOW HOST: You know, I want to make sure that we get this characterized exactly right. I have never been a proponent of legalizing marijuana. I have been a proponent of making sure that a doctor who is trained and a specialist who understands how to prescribe medication, if that doctor chooses to prescribe medication for his patient, and that patient happens to be me, and he can put me on a morphine drip and he also says, I also recommend this medication, then he should be able to do so. And the state should allow him to prescribe this, and I should be able to get it.
But here's what's so odd about this, we talk about this topic, we don't ever talk about it from a place of truth. We always start with a lot of rumors and falsehoods. But the truth is, on May 10th of this year, the federal government celebrated the 30th anniversary of a program, Tavis, that was started under the first Bush administration, where the United States government has been dispensing marijuana every single month for 30 years to 25 people across the United States. Unfortunately, in the last five to six years, it's now down to five people because the other people have passed away.
Our government grows it. It certifies it. It puts a USDA stamp on it. And every single month, our government sends that medication out to five people across the United States. You can check this yourself. As a matter of fact, it was called the Compassionate Investigational New Drug Program. It started 30 years ago May 10th. Every single month, through a program at the University of Mississippi, we the federal government and your taxpayer dollars goes to a program to grow marijuana and dispense it.
Our country dispenses marijuana to patients who are ill. But, unfortunately, that program got cut off to just now five people. I ask you this question and I ask this of Stephen: I'm not trying to legalize marijuana, I'm just trying to say, here's a government that's supposed to do no harm, a government that's supposed to be compassionate to all its citizens; what right does this government have to say that we're going to give medication to five people and let them be pain free, and for all the rest of you, you go to hell, we're not going to help you, the program's closed? That's not appropriate in America today. SMILEY: I got a break in 30 seconds. I don't want to cut you off. I'll come right to you and let you respond to the question that Montel Williams poses. We'll take a break. I don't want to cut you off. We'll take a break and come back and I'll come right to you and let you respond to the question that Montel Williams' poses. Montel, thanks or doing my job on LARRY KING LIVE. We'll take a break and hear Stephen Baldwin's response in just a moment.
( COMMERCIAL BREAK )
SMILEY: It's the marijuana debate, featuring Montel Williams and Stephen Baldwin. We heard Montel's point of view before the break. Mr. Baldwin, the floor or the microphone is yours, sir.
STEPHEN BALDWIN, ACTOR: Thank you very much, Tavis. It's great to be here. First of all, this isn't even a debate between Montel and I. We got crazy love for one another. I have a lot of respect for him as well.
I can't speak for the government, Montel, but I do want to say this: it's obvious, America wants its marijuana. This is a fascinating topic now. But my question is, how do we control it? Obviously, there's a movement that's coming. It's beyond just the legalization of it medically, Montel. And that's the problem that I have.
Let me finish -- please, like Jack Cafferty said earlier on this network, he's sober 20 years and he doesn't want his kids to do what he did, which is what all kids do, drink and smoke a joint. You have to understand, alcohol in this country can only profit the government in taxation, a maximum annually of 25 billion a year. But the negative cause and effect is over 150 billion. How are we going to prevent that if this ball starts rolling.
WILLIAMS: Stephen, I will agree with you on all those premises. I've got to tell you something, your tax dollars have paid for 30 years for the United States government to dispense this drug through pharmacies around the country. They're already doing it. It's not like we have to invent something new. It's been done and controlled. No one's stolen one can in 30 years.
BALDWIN: I don't know about all that.
WILLIAMS: Also, 13 states in this country right now -- the state of California has medicinal marijuana centers across the state, where they have -- they give them licenses and they license people to do it. Here's part of the problem, Tavis, I've got to tell you. All you have to do is ask some smart people. And I believe I'm one of them. I will go down and show you how we can open up dispensaries, how the government can control this and contain it, because, look, I don't want it in the hands of my children either. Stephen, you just said it yourself.
Look, if my daughter and your daughter are laying on gurney in a hospital right now and they're both ill, they're both hurting. And the federal government walks in and says Montel, here, your child can take this to feel better, I'm sorry, Stephen, the heck with your daughter, you would revolt. America should revolt now.
SMILEY: Montel, it seems to me -- I'm not arguing a point, I'm just asking a question. It seems to me that if you take the government out of it -- and so many of us believe the government is too involved in our lives, in too many respects and aspects in the first place -- why control it request when government can just legalize it. Or put it another way, why not just decriminalize it?
WILLIAMS: Here's the thing, there are people smarter minds than me that know the answer how we continue it even if we make it a commercial industry. I'm not against that. If that's what's going to help a doctor give me medication, I'm sorry, I've got to beg for things that make my life better. The bottom line is, right this minute, we have a two-tiered system for 30 years.
It's not like this was yesterday. Ladies and gentlemen, you need to listen up and do the research yourself. For 30 years, our government sends out marijuana. Is this not an egregious offense, the same government that locks up a child or someone with a joint in their pocket, is actually a drug dealer. They are dispensing it every single month.
SMILEY: What about that distinction between legalizing and decriminalizing? What about the latter?
BALDWIN: I disagree with the latter as well. You're talking to a guy 20 years sober, Tavis, off of drugs and alcohol. I know the affects of marijuana firsthand. I can tell you right now, if this starts to become something that is more readily available to our youth, the ramifications and repercussions of that in the next 30 years will be beyond our comprehension.
SMILEY: Do you buy the argument that marijuana leads to harder stuff?
BALDWIN: That's a fact.
( CROSS TALK )
BALDWIN: Last time I was on the show with Ron Paul, you wouldn't believe the e-mails I got, people are going to kill me, shoot me, all kinds of stuff. America wants it's marijuana, man, I get it. But I am just worried -- I am more concerned for the future and the youth of America. And this drug, which is a very dangerous drug -- it's not a casual thing. It's very dangerous -- is negatively effecting our youth.
MONTEL: Steve, let me just say, 30 seconds, right now, London, Canada, there's a product that's on the marketplace in London right now. It's called Sabotex ( ph ). It's made from marijuana. We have outlawed even the research around marijuana in America, unless the federal government themselves does it.
Here's the problem, right now, why don't we have an honest discussion about this? If we need to take the government out of it, do so. We could approach the pharmaceutical industry. There's money being made overseas with products that are derivatives of marijuana. What I'm trying to say to you, please, don't throw out the baby with the bath water. There are some of us who need the medication and we should have a right to it.
BALDWIN: Maybe you and I should get together and create some kind of conference about this.
WILLIAMS: I am ready. Not only am I ready for a conference, I can show you how to do it.
SMILEY: I'll show up and moderate it, how about that.
BALDWIN: Do it.
WILLIAMS: Love it, Tavis. Thank you.
SMILEY: Steven, nice to have you on. Stephen Baldwin. Montel Williams, nice to have you on as well.
WILLIAMS: Good to see you, Stephen, my friend.
BALDWIN: God bless.
SMILEY: Larry King back in his chair, as he should be, on Monday night. Larry, thanks for letting me sit in tonight. CNN continues it's coverage of the drug violence in Mexico. Time now for Anderson Cooper, on the border tonight with "AC 360" on the war next door.
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