New leaf problems

[The Old Toby]

I thought I had had every kind of deficiency you could get over my first three grows, but this is a new one.

The leaves are turning brown between the veins and then getting dry and brittle from the end back. The weird thing is that they don’t go completely brown before they go dry and start crumbling.

These are White Widow clones I am growing side by side with two Girl Scout Cookies clones, each strain in a separate tent.

Specs are identical:
Pot: 1 gal. plastic ( to three gal. fabric this weekend)
Soil: 1/2 Happy Frog 1/2 Ocean Forest
Nutes: Big Bloom, Grow Big, Kelp Me Kelp You, Microbe Brew, Cal Mag
Lights: LED
Temp: 68-77 F
Humidity: 35-40%

It’s only the WW that are experiencing this. The GSC looks fantastic. I should note that I have also topped the WW but not the GSC, so I don’t know if that has anything to do with anything. Thanks in advance for any insights.

fo

 

[013]

First pic kinda looks like damage from thrips....

see what other replies you get

 

[The Old Toby]

First pic kinda looks like damage from thrips....

see what other replies you get

Thanks for the reply! I would be very surprised if that was it. I’m growing indoors in a part of the country that has been pretty cold recently. I used a neem oil spray early on as a preventative measure. I’ve also looked them over pretty good and I haven’t seen anything moving. It’s also all over both plants, so It’s also all over both plants, so if it was thrips it would be a really bad infestation I feel like I would probably be able to see them when looking hard.

I actually looked this morning and saw one leaf on one of my GSCs, so my thought is something to do with the nutrients, since they are both on the same feeding schedule and regimen. Still trying to figure out the nutritional intricacies of different strains, but it seems like it might be some thing that is bad for both of them but just affecting the WW plants more.

The new growth from them looks healthy though. Should I cut off the browning leaves?

 

[013]

I’m torn on leaf removal... yes if there was critters laying eggs then removing the affected leaves would be good, but they also help with gathering energy, transpiration of moisture and nute storage - so you can see my thought process. If it’s nute imbalance then removing the damaged leaves simple ensures the next pairs up the stalk will show the same damage soon unless the problem has been corrected.

Ok - about the critters - most are very stealthy and tiny, they suck sap from your girl and lay eggs on the underside of leaves. Typically you won’t see them with the naked eye, you need at least 30/60 X magnification. Snip one or two leaves and scope them front & back. Do you have jewelers loupe, pocket microscope, digital microscope or such? A scope is imperative for judging trich colors for harvest and viewing pests or eggs. There’s a smart phone app called magnifyer that uses your phone camera to get digital microscope images - try it out.

Saturday’s are big garden days so there will be many experienced growers here on 420..... don’t jump on anything yet - wait to see what other replies come in.

Shout out for @bobrown14

 

[The Old Toby]

Much appreciated. We’ll wait and see.

 

[bobrown14]

No need to remove leaves as mentioned.

Looks like Calcium issue - could be water pH related and a lockout starting.

Be sure to pH correct according to your labels and try just water for a few waterings.

Whats the water source?

Stop the cal/mag unless you're SURE you need it and by sure I mean a soil test.

 

[Northern Hydro]

Are you feeding both grow and bloom nutes ?
looks like she is still vegging ... ?

 

[JamesBong502]

No need to remove leaves as mentioned.

Looks like Calcium issue - could be water pH related and a lockout starting.

Be sure to pH correct according to your labels and try just water for a few waterings.

Whats the water source?

Stop the cal/mag unless you're SURE you need it and by sure I mean a soil test.

I am leaning towards the lockout from pH issues as well.
I had the same problem on my first grow from letting my coco get to dry between waterings. It hit my leaves a lot harder but I was in the end of flower.
I solved the issue by finishing her off with ph adjusted water only until I snipped her.

 

[The Old Toby]

No need to remove leaves as mentioned.

Looks like Calcium issue - could be water pH related and a lockout starting.

Be sure to pH correct according to your labels and try just water for a few waterings.

Whats the water source?

Stop the cal/mag unless you're SURE you need it and by sure I mean a soil test.

Water is just tap, which is what I’ve used in my previous grows, but I can absolutely believe it’s a ph issue this time though.

I’m embarrassed to say that my ph meter got wet and stopped working at the end of my last grow and I haven’t gotten another one yet. But I had my magic number of drops down already to get it to where it needs to be.

Unfortunately I don’t have that magic number for my water with nutes since I’m adding “microbe brew” and “kelp me kelp you” with this grow. So when it’s just water, they are getting ph adjusted water. With nute watering, they aren’t. So it’s 50/50, which I’m sure has lead to an imbalance. If that is indeed the case, shame on me. I need to order a new ph meter ASAP.

Can you recommend water and soil meters that are decent? I’m not sure the pmeters for soil that I bought from Home Depot ever worked, nor the ones I bought on Amazon. As for the ph water meter, I’m not sure I want one that is susceptible to being destroyed by...well...water.

 

[The Old Toby]

Are you feeding both grow and bloom nutes ?
looks like she is still vegging ... ?

Still vegging, so no blooming nutes. “Big bloom” is just a general fertilizer. “Tiger bloom” is the flowering nute that gets added in later one it goes 12/12.

 

[JamesBong502]

Water is just tap, which is what I’ve used in my previous grows, but I can absolutely believe it’s a ph issue this time though.

I’m embarrassed to say that my ph meter got wet and stopped working at the end of my last grow and I haven’t gotten another one yet. But I had my magic number of drops down already to get it to where it needs to be.

Unfortunately I don’t have that magic number for my water with nutes since I’m adding “microbe brew” and “kelp me kelp you” with this grow. So when it’s just water, they are getting ph adjusted water. With nute watering, they aren’t. So it’s 50/50, which I’m sure has lead to an imbalance. If that is indeed the case, shame on me. I need to order a new ph meter ASAP.

Can you recommend water and soil meters that are decent? I’m not sure the pmeters for soil that I bought from Home Depot ever worked, nor the ones I bought on Amazon. As for the ph water meter, I’m not sure I want one that is susceptible to being destroyed by...well...water.

Depending on budget, as I’m sure most will agree blue labs will be the most reliable/ most recommended. But you’ll pay for that, I bought a “Hanna instruments” from my grow shop in the range of 30-40 USD. It lasted 2 harvest before it died. So in the long run it’s better to “buy once cry once” as my papaw always said.

 

[013]

Those 2 prong 3 way ph, light and moisture meters are very effective at roasting 2 marshmallows at once, but in the garden they suck! Blue Labs is good but pricey... grow shops mark that stuff up hard
so web shopping offers better savings

 

[The Old Toby]

Depending on budget, as I’m sure most will agree blue labs will be the most reliable/ most recommended. But you’ll pay for that, I bought a “Hanna instruments” from my grow shop in the range of 30-40 USD. It lasted 2 harvest before it died. So in the long run it’s better to “buy once cry once” as my papaw always said.

Fair enough. That’s what I was afraid of, but at least good to confirm so I can “stop throwing good money after bad” as my granddaddy used to say.

 

[The Old Toby]

Those 2 prong 3 way ph, light and moisture meters are very effective at roasting 2 marshmallows at once, but in the garden they suck! Blue Labs is good but pricey... grow shops mark that stuff up hard
so web shopping offers better savings

LOL, too bad I didn’t think of that before I pitched the last one! You’re certainly right about the prices on most things in the grow shop, although I have found some exceptions. Can’t swing the Blue Labs one right now, but probably need to get something quick.

How long would you recommend watering with plain ph adjusted water for? I’m up potting tomorrow, so they’ll get fresh soil (1/2 Happy Frog 1/12 Ocean Forest).

 

[MochaBud]

I thought I had had every kind of deficiency you could get over my first three grows, but this is a new one.

The leaves are turning brown between the veins and then getting dry and brittle from the end back. The weird thing is that they don’t go completely brown before they go dry and start crumbling.

These are White Widow clones I am growing side by side with two Girl Scout Cookies clones, each strain in a separate tent.

Specs are identical:
Pot: 1 gal. plastic ( to three gal. fabric this weekend)
Soil: 1/2 Happy Frog 1/2 Ocean Forest
Nutes: Big Bloom, Grow Big, Kelp Me Kelp You, Microbe Brew, Cal Mag
Lights: LED
Temp: 68-77 F
Humidity: 35-40%

It’s only the WW that are experiencing this. The GSC looks fantastic. I should note that I have also topped the WW but not the GSC, so I don’t know if that has anything to do with anything. Thanks in advance for any insights.

You're over doing it on the nutrients, way too much...just water for awhile, and don't waste money on a PH pen in fox farms soil...
I'm also in fox farms soil, ask me if I PH anything...

Main cola, White Widow 7 weeks

• MochaBud
• Oct 10, 2020

White Widow 7 weeks

• MochaBud
• Oct 10, 2020

013.jpg

• MochaBud
• Aug 30, 2019
• 3

White Widow 3 weeks in flower
No PHing of water!

 

[The Old Toby]

You're over doing it on the nutrients, way too much...just water for awhile, and don't waste money on a PH pen in fox farms soil...
I'm also in fox farms soil, ask me if I PH anything...

Main cola, White Widow 7 weeks

• MochaBud
• Oct 10, 2020

White Widow 7 weeks

• MochaBud
• Oct 10, 2020

013.jpg

• MochaBud
• Aug 30, 2019
• 3

White Widow 3 weeks in flower
No PHing of water!

impressive! Well now I have something new to be confused by!

So here’s the story with the nutes. My first grow with white widow, I was feeding fox farm nutes at half strength, after getting nute burn from full strength of growing previous strains. The WW developed a deficiency and a well respected member told me on a different thread that WW is a glutton and will take anything you give it. She also admonished me to follow the FF feeding schedule and levels. I went back to full strength, but the issue never really cleared up.

So basically I have heard two schools of thought on FF nutes and soils. One is that you simply follow their directions, no questions asked. The other is that both the soil and the nutes are super potent. So soil can provide nutes for a while after planting/transplanting and even when adding nutes, they should not be full strength. I’m tempted to lean towards the latter based on my own firsthand, albeit limited, experience but I’ve also be told that is just “bro science” so I’m still in limbo I guess.

 

[JamesBong502]

impressive! Well now I have something new to be confused by!

So here’s the story with the nutes. My first grow with white widow, I was feeding fox farm nutes at half strength, after getting nute burn from full strength of growing previous strains. The WW developed a deficiency and a well respected member told me on a different thread that WW is a glutton and will take anything you give it. She also admonished me to follow the FF feeding schedule and levels. I went back to full strength, but the issue never really cleared up.

So basically I have heard two schools of thought on FF nutes and soils. One is that you simply follow their directions, no questions asked. The other is that both the soil and the nutes are super potent. So soil can provide nutes for a while after planting/transplanting and even when adding nutes, they should not be full strength. I’m tempted to lean towards the latter based on my own firsthand, albeit limited, experience but I’ve also be told that is just “bro science” so I’m still in limbo I guess.

If that persons growing in coco that could be the difference as well.
The folks that build their own soil may not feed any nutrients at all. I’ve never grown in soil so I’m not much help on the topic.
Water for a while should be safe, especially after transplanting.
Cheers,

 

[The Old Toby]

If that persons growing in coco that could be the difference as well.
The folks that build their own soil may not feed any nutrients at all. I’ve never grown in soil so I’m not much help on the topic.
Water for a while should be safe, especially after transplanting.
Cheers,

Fair enough then. Appreciate all the insights and advice. Cheers!

 

[013]

I‘m soil grower and don’t adjust ph either but many do. Those smaller plants should be ok as water only for several weeks especially with upcan, some folks like to push nutes and see a bit of tip burn but there are many styles of growing

 

[The Old Toby]

I‘m soil grower and don’t adjust ph either but many do. Those smaller plants should be ok as water only for several weeks especially with upcan, some folks like to push nutes and see a bit of tip burn but there are many styles of growing

Good to know. I’m still too green to know what my “style” is yet, but all in good time I guess. That’s the blessing and the curse of cultivation, always something new to overcome and something more to learn.