Unknown leaf discoloration: please help

[Hashtag]

Hi guys,
so i've got a small problem in my growroom, this popped up out of nowhere and it seems to get worse rather quickly
After researching the web for a good bit, I couldn't find anything similar to this....
Has somebody seen something like this?

They are grown under LED's and received BioBizz feeds...

Any ideas are welcome

Thanks so much you guys!
Greetz, #tag

 

[Glookies1]

Natural light would help us

 

[SmokingWings]

I have had something that looks very similar to that. It does not affect all the plants in the flowering cabinet, just some of them. Before long the brown works into all of the small sugar leaves and then the buds become very dry and turn brown. I do not know what to do about it since I do not know just what it is. I have seen it come up for discussion but that seems to be as far as it gets.

One thing is that most of the time when something like that has happened to me it is on the smaller branches first, not on a larger bud tip. Starts on smaller branches first and it seems to begin with the top bud and work down to where that branch comes off the stem. Almost seems as if there is a vascular problem in that smaller stem and the flow of nutrients has stopped.

Like @Glookies1 mentions, take the photos in natural light or a regular room light. Turn off the purple and use the camera's flash if possible. The purple color from your grow lights makes it harder to tell just what shade of green the leaves are and the shade of brown.

Good luck.

 

[Hashtag]

Thanks for the replies guys... much appreciated.
I snapped a few more pics under normal LED light, and I'll get you tomorrow a few under natural light since it's dark out and the normal room light doesn't work at the moment.

I don't have much hope left anyways, it sucks because I can't go nowhere due to the lockdown, and it's the only plant I got going at the moment.... oh well, every end is a new beginning, right?
I would just love to know what caused this mess.. but apparently I'm not the first to encounter this problem, and if it would be possible I'd like to take precautions to not having this issue again..

I'll upload the pics tomorrow.
Maybe it could help somebody in the future.
Night guys
#tag

 

[SmokingWings]

If you can, a photo which shows more of the plant. Let us see if it is on the entire column from top to bottom or just located to one or a few areas. Let us know some basics such as if you are growing in soil or a type of hydroponic set-up. And, how long since you switched them over to a flowering light schedule or when the first buds started forming, whichever you have records for.

Someone else had a problem like this and if I can find that thread I will link to it, hopefully within a day. His photos looked like yours but his problem was a bit more advanced. Then within a couple of days of posting his first msg he came back and said that the buds had started turning brown and drying up.

Just my thought on your plant. If it is the same problem you should be able to save the buds that have not turned brown yet. I consider my grow room to be a hobby along with the outdoor flowers and vegetables so I am more willing to hang onto a problem and see what it does to the plant.

Here is something from previous plants and grows. It has shown up in my flowering cabinet on 4 or 5 plants over the last 2 years. They were always clones. The last time this came up I did cut off the brown buds and sometimes the entire short stem. The remaining buds continued to develop as normal. Then if the problem came back and showed up somewhere else I would cut that part off. It does not seem to jump from one plant to another.

The last time it showed up on one clone. I had another clone right next to it. Both clones were cut off of the same mother plant at the same time, the cuttings planted in the same soil, each time the clones were up-potted (transplanted into a larger pot) the soil came from the same bucket of mix, all water was from the same source, if anything was added to the water as a supplement it was given to both plants at the same time. Yet, only one of those two clones had the problem.

 

[SmokingWings]

Oh, and one thing I noticed in your photos are the way some of the smaller thin leaves have started to twist; not just a wilting appearance or pointing up or down. They look like they are twisting which I noticed on my plants.

I circled some of the ones I noticed in you photos that already seem to be twisting and some that are just starting.

If it were not for this browning of the leaves it looks like you had a really nice plant going.

 

[Hashtag]

Hi,
so here are my answers :

If you can, a photo which shows more of the plant. Let us see if it is on the entire column from top to bottom or just located to one or a few areas. Let us know some basics such as if you are growing in soil or a type of hydroponic set-up. And, how long since you switched them over to a flowering light schedule or when the first buds started forming, whichever you have records for.
I attached a few snaps from the stems, they look healthy. The leafs are starting to droop like the plant is thirsty but the soil is still moist. This plant is 3 weeks into flower, I used fresh growing soil from...a growshop though i have used successfully before, can't seem to find the name, it was vegged out during nearly 2 months and grown from seed. It started developing after the last feed almost a week ago (biobizz organic nutrients)

Someone else had a problem like this and if I can find that thread I will link to it, hopefully within a day. His photos looked like yours but his problem was a bit more advanced. Then within a couple of days of posting his first msg he came back and said that the buds had started turning brown and drying up.
Yeah the first leaves started turning crispy too, (might also be why a few on your markings look the way they do, I wanted to check if they were crispy )but it doesn't seem to affect the buds just yet.

Just my thought on your plant. If it is the same problem you should be able to save the buds that have not turned brown yet. I consider my grow room to be a hobby along with the outdoor flowers and vegetables so I am more willing to hang onto a problem and see what it does to the plant.
Unfortunately the whole plant's affected.. and I have to make room for the next ones, so I can't keep it around if it needs to go :-/

Here is something from previous plants and grows. It has shown up in my flowering cabinet on 4 or 5 plants over the last 2 years. They were always clones. The last time this came up I did cut off the brown buds and sometimes the entire short stem. The remaining buds continued to develop as normal. Then if the problem came back and showed up somewhere else I would cut that part off. It does not seem to jump from one plant to another.

The last time it showed up on one clone. I had another clone right next to it. Both clones were cut off of the same mother plant at the same time, the cuttings planted in the same soil, each time the clones were up-potted (transplanted into a larger pot) the soil came from the same bucket of mix, all water was from the same source, if anything was added to the water as a supplement it was given to both plants at the same time. Yet, only one of those two clones had the problem.
Thanks for your Input, so it can affect seed grown and cuttings..hmm

So yeah, long story short it think this one's days are numbered.
Here are a few more pictures of leaves I cut off, and general plant status / health.

Welp...you learn something new everyday I guess, right?
Thanks again ! Have a nice one
#Tag

 

[MochaBud]

to Hashtag

It looks like you have a lockout or PH imbalance, or both ...what kind of soil are you in? what are your temps when lights are on/off? how often do you feed?

 

[Hashtag]

Hi MochaBud,
thanks for the input !
I just checked also since SmokingWings asked, I'm using Gold Label special Mix.
Temps are at 28-29 degrees celsius w/ lights on, and about 23 when lights are off.
Can this be adressed with a heavy water flush, or how should i proceed? This is the first time in my 4 years I've had an issue like this one..
My Ph meter doesn't work anymore and atm I can't get a replacement due to govermental restrictions, everything's closed.
I give them a light feed on first and second, for the 3rd just plain water. *edit* that's the interval *edit* (Tap water but it's pretty decent where I live, so no issue there.)

Thanks in advance!
#Tag

 

[SmokingWings]

@Hashtag, I do not trim my plants back as much as you did with that one. It might be why I seem to get the problem further down the plant and not near the top until the very end. Otherwise the browning of the leaves looks the same. You say your plant is about 3 weeks into flower and that matches my experience of seeing the problem at 3-4 weeks.

I understand the need for room. Especially if the plant has a problem like that one does. If you do keep it for another week or so and if the buds start to brown up let us know. I am just curious on the timing schedule. Trying to remember the sequence. The leaves turn brown and the brown moves closer to the bud. Then the bud starts to feel like it is firming up just like they do towards the last 10 days or so. Except the points of all the sugar leaves feel like little spikes. Then the brown starts on the small sugar leaves on the bud and it gets to feeling really dry. I also noticed that the trichomes would not be there as if they were falling off.

Never tried the soil flush but that will be on the agenda if it happens again.

And, now that I am sitting here thinking about it, I did save some of the buds from the other times it happened but it was not worth the effort and time. Other than trying to understand what was happening.

@MochaBud, I have taken two clones from the same mother, taken at the same time, planted in the same soil, every time the clones were up-potted they were transplanted at the same time. I used soil from the same bucket of mix for each of them from start to finish, every time I watered I would water both of them and always used the same water for each. If I mixed any additional nutrients with the water both clones got the same mix. Yet one clone had the problem and the other did not.

But, the idea of a nutrient lock sounds interesting. I know I thought about it before but never did anything about it. Some other things I noticed from the times it has popped up in the Flowering Cabinet. It only happened to the Blue Dream clones. I might have other strains in the cabinet at the same time, like Papaya, Klingon or Girl Scout Cookie and they never had the brown leaves.

 

[MochaBud]

Hi MochaBud,
thanks for the input !
I just checked also since SmokingWings asked, I'm using Gold Label special Mix.
Temps are at 28-29 degrees celsius w/ lights on, and about 23 when lights are off.
Can this be adressed with a heavy water flush, or how should i proceed? This is the first time in my 4 years I've had an issue like this one..
My Ph meter doesn't work anymore and atm I can't get a replacement due to govermental restrictions, everything's closed.
I give them a light feed on first and second, for the 3rd just plain water. *edit* that's the interval *edit* (Tap water but it's pretty decent where I live, so no issue there.)

Thanks in advance!
#Tag

Well I was just reading about that soil/soil-less peat you're using and it says to flush every now and then, but it also says to treat it like hydro ....
I've never heard of or used that brand of soil-less mix....I switched to FFOF about a year ago and haven't had a problem since

How often are you feeding? Being a soil-less mix, you should be watering a little w/lite nutes and cal-mag every day, if it's to be treated like hydro...but like I said I've never heard of that brand...

If it was me I would flush it out good, and just water a little every day with some cal-mag and see what she does, because it does look like a lockout...good luck and I hope that helped

 

[MochaBud]

@Hashtag, I do not trim my plants back as much as you did with that one. It might be why I seem to get the problem further down the plant and not near the top until the very end. Otherwise the browning of the leaves looks the same. You say your plant is about 3 weeks into flower and that matches my experience of seeing the problem at 3-4 weeks.

I understand the need for room. Especially if the plant has a problem like that one does. If you do keep it for another week or so and if the buds start to brown up let us know. I am just curious on the timing schedule. Trying to remember the sequence. The leaves turn brown and the brown moves closer to the bud. Then the bud starts to feel like it is firming up just like they do towards the last 10 days or so. Except the points of all the sugar leaves feel like little spikes. Then the brown starts on the small sugar leaves on the bud and it gets to feeling really dry. I also noticed that the trichomes would not be there as if they were falling off.

Never tried the soil flush but that will be on the agenda if it happens again.

And, now that I am sitting here thinking about it, I did save some of the buds from the other times it happened but it was not worth the effort and time. Other than trying to understand what was happening.

@MochaBud, I have taken two clones from the same mother, taken at the same time, planted in the same soil, every time the clones were up-potted they were transplanted at the same time. I used soil from the same bucket of mix for each of them from start to finish, every time I watered I would water both of them and always used the same water for each. If I mixed any additional nutrients with the water both clones got the same mix. Yet one clone had the problem and the other did not.

But, the idea of a nutrient lock sounds interesting. I know I thought about it before but never did anything about it. Some other things I noticed from the times it has popped up in the Flowering Cabinet. It only happened to the Blue Dream clones. I might have other strains in the cabinet at the same time, like Papaya, Klingon or Girl Scout Cookie and they never had the brown leaves.

Are you in a soil-less mix also? If not some strains are calcium hogs, and the symptoms appear as bleach spots and brown dry crumbly look to the leaves edges. My white widows a calcium hog, but my cal-mag is 1 tbsp of epsom salts and 2 tbsp of garden lime per gallon of water, it's cheaper than buying the liquid concentrates

 

[SmokingWings]

Are you in a soil-less mix also? If not some strains are calcium hogs, and the symptoms appear as bleach spots and brown dry crumbly look to the leaves edges. My white widows a calcium hog, but my cal-mag is 1 tbsp of epsom salts and 2 tbsp of garden lime per gallon of water, it's cheaper than buying the liquid concentrates

I am in soil mix I based on Coot's recipe.

The brown takes over the whole leaf starting at the tip and progressing very fast moving toward the stem. Then into the flower bud itself. I have seen what you are describing every now and then but this does not start off as spots. Once it starts it is always the same shade of brown from day one till I cut the stuff off the plant.

I know that I have tried one of the liquid concentrates and it did not stop the problem. Since it seems to be a problem with some strains and not all I will just have to wait. I do have some Blue Dream clones slowly growing and being trained.

Thanks for the suggestion.

 

[MochaBud]

I am in soil mix I based on Coot's recipe.

The brown takes over the whole leaf starting at the tip and progressing very fast moving toward the stem. Then into the flower bud itself. I have seen what you are describing every now and then but this does not start off as spots. Once it starts it is always the same shade of brown from day one till I cut the stuff off the plant.

I know that I have tried one of the liquid concentrates and it did not stop the problem. Since it seems to be a problem with some strains and not all I will just have to wait. I do have some Blue Dream clones slowly growing and being trained.

Thanks for the suggestion.

I do not usually suggest any chemicals, but I have used the "Garden Safe" brand Fungicide 3 in 1...it's OMRI certified for organic gardening, which is why I used it when I couldn't figure out WTF was going on

 

[SmokingWings]

Thanks for the suggestion. I have seen that product at several stores.

My thoughts are that it is something that is in the stem. Fungus or insects should spread from plant to plant. I have not noticed the problem move from one plant to the others in the flowering cabinet at the time, or even to the plants right next to the problem plant. Not even when other plants are touching the one being affected.

Right now I do not have the problem. Next time I see it starting I will attempt to get some decent photos.