Wits end - need help

sillyputty

sillyputty

New Member
I'm at my wits end regarding growing with a hydro setup. Allow me to elaborate:

Baby-bloomer grow system using clay rocks (type that came with unit). Watering set for 8 feedings during 24 hr photo-period, 4 feedings during 12/12 with one feeding during dark period.
400W MH
MaxiGro for vegetative 10-5-14
MaxiBloom for flowering 5-15-14
However, I used several other brands, including A-B type liquids w/micro nutes.
Temperature 70F - 90F
Small fan for circulation
Light on 24 hrs. vegie, 12/12 on-off for flowering
Nutrients changed every 2 wks
pH 6 - 6.5
Grow room completely dark during flowering.

I had very good success in the beginning with 4-5 oz. of high-quality bud each harvest. Then quantity went down drastically to under one oz per. though quality remained the same.
Thinking I had poor quality seed stock, I ordered some (Northern Lights) off the internet, but had the same results.
I tried buying a new Baby-bloomer (thinking it somehow got 'contaminated'), using distilled instead of tap water, adding a bubbler, changing nutrient formulas without success.

I can't figure out why quantity has reduced so much. Any help much appreciated!
 
Try a new bulb. If you've been using the same one the whole time is prolly on the down fall, sounds like it.
 
Hmm maybe your pumps clogged not distilling enough o2 to the water. Checked on what a baby bloomer is and the descrip was a little light. Might try which the pump for a little 10 gallon air pump and a better air diffuser. Either way the upgrade would prolly help out loads.
 
-How long are your floods?
-Try Keeping your PH at 5.8.
-Try flooding/feeding 3-4 times only while the lights are on. I flood mine 3 times per day 15min at a time.
-Keep your temperature below 85f.
 
what nutrients did you use last time? If it's not the waters' o2 levels, pH, or the light it could be the food.

-MaxiBloom for flowering 5-15-14-

try something with less P (phosphorus) cannabis uses very little of it in flowering. cannabis tissue analysis

do you have any pictures of your current plants?
 
Hv used same 1000 watt HPS bulb for two yrs., dbled last crop using Advanced Nut's, but know is time to chg. Got money out of that bulb. Wld consider ForestKlowns suggestions.
 
hydrorod said:
Hv used same 1000 watt HPS bulb for two yrs., dbled last crop using Advanced Nut's, but know is time to chg. Got money out of that bulb. Wld consider ForestKlowns suggestions.
Click to expand...

What he said. Just dont keep your PH at 5.8, start it there and let it float to 6.5 not adjusting until it does so. Also, think about changing your res once a week rather than every 2. Do you top off in that time or just let it run? If your just letting it run then thats no good. I usually change solution on saturday and top off on wed. keeping solution temps below 70 will help as well. Above that you are lowering oxygen levels too much and inviting problems.
 
whitey78 said:
Just dont keep your PH at 5.8, start it there and let it float to 6.5 not adjusting until it does so. Also, think about changing your res once a week rather than every 2.
Click to expand...

Don't listen to that guy. Your pH needs to be 5.8 in hydro. If your pH is rising liking his then something is wrong. I pH my nutes to 5.8 and it stays within 1 point + or - until the next res change.

Also, if you change your nutes every week you're just pouring money down the drain. TDS or ppm reading should dictate when you need to change your res.
 
HashAssassin said:
Don't listen to that guy. Your pH needs to be 5.8 in hydro. If your pH is rising liking his then something is wrong. I pH my nutes to 5.8 and it stays within 1 point + or - until the next res change.

Also, if you change your nutes every week you're just pouring money down the drain. TDS or ppm reading should dictate when you need to change your res.
Click to expand...

Respectfully Hash - I disagree a little. Just a little. Firstly, it's pretty commonplace for PH to drift more erratically than one or two points - there is a lot of different set ups and factors that can affect that (even reservoir size for one). I used to keep mine micro-managed to about 5.6%. I've found through practice, that for my setup it will fluctuate more/less depending on strength of nutrients. In general, I try to set it to 5.5% and will let it drift up as high as 6.1% before I correct it. Not all nutrients "love" 5.8%. Some aren't as effective at 5.8% as they are at 5.5% for example. You can grow beautiful plants either way, but letting it drift a little if it wants can be good in my opinion. I also believe that weekly res. changes are a good thing in that you are less likely to have contamination, and you have more control over your environment and nutrients by more frequent changes. Again, plenty of people are successful doing it every other week, but doing it every week is at a minimum - prudent. Just my opinion. Make no mistake, I know for a fact what you're saying will work too.

Back on topic. The concerns I see here are definitely:

1. PH being off. I guarantee that following either Hash's suggestion or a slight variation like what I do will make things better. PH should stay 5.5-6.1 for hydro with clay rocks. Where it's at now will guaranteed cause problems.

2. Temps are getting higher than they should. I like to stay around 75F or so. Like ForestKlown said, keep it below 85f if you can. 90F is pushing it and will cause headaches

3. Don't feed at night. Ever. Keep the feedings to "daylight" hours only and make sure they are completed at least an hour prior to lights off, imo.

For the record, I'm not very familiar with the nutrients involved or the Baby Bloomer specifically. But I'm confident with my suggestions above.
 
Don't get me wrong, I don't micro manage my pH. I set it then check it every few days to make sure it's within the acceptable range of 5.6 to 6.1. A pH reading of 6.5 is way too high. Remember these are not percentage readings (%) in the traditional sense but rather a scale of 0 to 14 so each point (0.1) is ten times more acidic or alkaline depending which way you go.
 
I agree that the ph is out of range and most likely the problem. 6.5 is too high for hydro, you could get away with it in soil, but too high for hydro. Also, some pictures would help us figure out any other issues that may be adding to your decrease in yeild. How is the overall health of the plants?
 
xlr8 said:
3. Don't feed at night. Ever. Keep the feedings to "daylight" hours only and make sure they are completed at least an hour prior to lights off, imo.
Click to expand...

How does this apply to a recirc DWC, or an NFT system? Both are hydro systems that feed continuously. I realize that the specific system is a flood/drain, but wanted to know the rational behind not feeding at night. It seems to work well with the system I am currently running. If I am doing something wrong, please point me in the direction of a good reference.

Thanks,
Steve
 
sillyputty said:
I'm at my wits end regarding growing with a hydro setup. Allow me to elaborate:

Baby-bloomer grow system using clay rocks (type that came with unit). Watering set for 8 feedings during 24 hr photo-period, 4 feedings during 12/12 with one feeding during dark period.
Click to expand...

stevehman said:
How does this apply to a recirc DWC, or an NFT system? Both are hydro systems that feed continuously. I realize that the specific system is a flood/drain, but wanted to know the rational behind not feeding at night. It seems to work well with the system I am currently running. If I am doing something wrong, please point me in the direction of a good reference.

Thanks,
Steve
Click to expand...

Hi Steve - good question, and I'm sorry if I caused any confusion. In this case, Sillyputty was referring to "watering" as feeding. Generally speaking you don't want to "water" your plants during dark hours. But I agree that in most hydro systems that the plants are always provided with nutrient solution to feed from. I also know that there are plenty of people who do "water" at night with no ill effect.

I wish I could find a good reference material that explains the reasoning, but I think if you search around a little (google or here) you'll find people commonly suggest only watering during "daylight". I think it has something to do with the plant not being able to fully "use" the added water during lights out - leaving water sitting on roots that is no longer being oxygenated (which can cause damp problems like mold and fungus). But I am not currently finding the right info to back that up with reasons.

Hope I didn't just confuse matters more...
 
HashAssassin said:
Don't get me wrong, I don't micro manage my pH. I set it then check it every few days to make sure it's within the acceptable range of 5.6 to 6.1. A pH reading of 6.5 is way too high. Remember these are not percentage readings (%) in the traditional sense but rather a scale of 0 to 14 so each point (0.1) is ten times more acidic or alkaline depending which way you go.
Click to expand...

Excellent point, Hash. Illustrates well why the 6.5% is definitely too high! I was just thinking the other day that PH scales are kinda like the Richter scale for earthquakes. There is a huge difference between numbers on a small scale...
 
xlr8 said:
For the record, I'm not very familiar with the nutrients involved or the Baby Bloomer specifically. But I'm confident with my suggestions above.
Click to expand...

Maxibloom is a 1 part dry granule. It's the KISS method, 1 tbs per gallon. Super cheap and hard to mess up. The baby bloomer is a small ebb and flow system. 1 oz per harvest is average in that system and his first harvest of 3 oz was exceptional.

xlr8 said:
3. Don't feed at night. Ever. Keep the feedings to "daylight" hours only and make sure they are completed at least an hour prior to lights off, imo.
Click to expand...

While this is is applicable to ebb and flow it applies to soil and NOT other hydro types. The reasoning behind this absurd idea is increased humidity and the other damp issues.
 
Even though its agreed that I let my PH rise too high, and its your opinion that a weekly res change is "money down the drain" or however you put it, someone pushing temps in the 80's and 90's without a chiller is only asking for problems not changing their res, I gladly admit I was wrong, however you are as well. You are going to cause this dude more problems by telling him not to change his res, penny wise, dollar foolish would be my opinion on not changing res solution. I can see you are an experienced grower, however the original poster isnt, thats why he's asking for help so dont encourage problems by telling him not to change the res once a week or more seeing his temps are so high, why not tell him to add non-beneficial bacteria to his res.


As far as the PH, hey... I was wrong, and have no problem admitting it, thats what happens when a newb like myself grows hydro and soil, things run together when you get no sleep, so I apologize for posting when I should have probably been getting some sleep. But as smart as you think you are, 5.8 being perfect with no PH drift....I have to disagree as most other people will. Unless you have some other way of getting zinc to your plants that I havent come across in my readings yet, 5.8 isnt going to let that happen. Actually starting the PH at 5.5 and letting it rise throughout the week (right up until the point of a weekly res change) if it happens to be 6.5, then its 6.5. I would rather let it rise to that point than add PH down to my solution if I dont have to. I was stating, dont let it get any higher than 6.5, I understand that its not optimal for the best growth, but its not going to hurt them either. Thats MY opinion. 6.5 is a rarity, but I wont adjust PH until it gets that high, as I said....its a rarity to see it go above 6.1 - 6.2 unless theres something pushing it that high...like high res temps exceeding 72 degrees, or not changing the res often enough......leading to add mass amounts of PH down which I think is worse than letting your PH rise naturally which it does. I understand you are the best grower in the world and what you say is the bottom line but I have to disagree.. No offense, actually yeah I do wish offense. Maybe in 30 years I'll be as good of a grower as you are and my garden will finally flourish because I came to the realization that a stankin dirty ass res is the way to go. And I dont care what you say, if your PH is staying at 5.8 with only .1 point of drift, you are in fact micro managing your PH. Thats the worst thing for a newb to do because he's going to keep correcting it, up and down, up and down. If thats a good thing, let me know cuz I'll start doing it that way again, maybe I wasnt doing it right or something. I check mine twice a week, when I clean and refill my res on saturday with shiny, brand new, smelling like crispy, burnt money solution, and when I top it off on wed. when I add the PHed solution to the res. (more waisted money your thinking huh?) Since I started doing that, all my problems that were very similar to sillyputty's have since gone away. I must have not let it get stankin enough, everything would have stabilized if I kept the solution in there for another week probably right?

Heres a PH chart for you to follow sillyputty, I should have posted this the other day, I apologize for not doing so.


phChart21.jpg
 

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