300W LED vs. 400W HID Demonstration

[Saturn]

re: GrowLEDHydro 300W LED vs. 400W HID Demonstration

Fantastic results!

Are you going to do another soon?

One test is worth a thousand words but two tests just throws a monkey wrench into things.......would be interesting.

Apparently my question was overlooked.

I don't know how to say this without it sounding negative but here goes........

The comparison to me seems biased, seemed more like an effort to keep them the same rather than let one get away from the other. And the nute lock out that only happened to the hid side, as I said before that kinda makes the results less than satisfactory IMO.

As far as being neutral goes, this thread is filled with LED fanboys who don't dare say anything that might be a downside to LEDs and are quick to point out any HID issues.
Also, the grower seems to have more experience with LEDs and less interested in the full potential of the HID system.

That's why I mention a second run, to be fair. I don't think it was a fair comparison based on the media problem that only one had, the hid.

And again, the results are some great looking smoke and in the end that's what counts.

There, I've said my piece and I"ll leave it at that.

Take it with a grain of salt.

I"m just as interested as anyone to see the LEDs become the mainstream lighting systems. I'm not interested in bashing the LED guys, in fact I encourage all and hope for success for all of us.

 

[endive]

re: GrowLEDHydro 300W LED vs. 400W HID Demonstration

wouldnt an ac unit cause the same effect as venting?

bringing in freshair from outside the environment cooling it and adding it to the current air in the area. you are diluting the co2 when using ac right?

Technically no, but it depends. AC units work by cooling & re-circulating the air in a room, though some have vents that you can open or close, that allow an exchange of fresh air (outside) at small levels.

 

[endive]

re: GrowLEDHydro 300W LED vs. 400W HID Demonstration

Apparently my question was overlooked.

I don't know how to say this without it sounding negative but here goes........

The comparison to me seems biased, seemed more like an effort to keep them the same rather than let one get away from the other. And the nute lock out that only happened to the hid side, as I said before that kinda makes the results less than satisfactory IMO.

As far as being neutral goes, this thread is filled with LED fanboys who don't dare say anything that might be a downside to LEDs and are quick to point out any HID issues.
Also, the grower seems to have more experience with LEDs and less interested in the full potential of the HID system.

That's why I mention a second run, to be fair. I don't think it was a fair comparison based on the media problem that only one had, the hid.

And again, the results are some great looking smoke and in the end that's what counts.

There, I've said my piece and I"ll leave it at that.

Take it with a grain of salt.

I"m just as interested as anyone to see the LEDs become the mainstream lighting systems. I'm not interested in bashing the LED guys, in fact I encourage all and hope for success for all of us.

Let me start, I totally get where you are coming from.

Was the experiment scientific? No, it was missing was a control group. But if you really want to "prove" anything you would have to go far beyond a 2nd grow to get any answers. It would take several grows, grows (with different bulb manufacturers and LED vendors) to produce enough usable and stable data (to compensate of unknown variables like the deficiency) to make a truly definitive decision on which will grow a better plant most efficiently.

In the end though, do we REALLY need to know without an ounce (no pun intended) of doubt which is better? Does one technology absolutely have to crush the other to prove it's worth? They both kicked ass.

What more could we have asked from such a wonderful comparison grow.

This grow is more than enough to prove that one can grow copious amounts of high quality cannabis with either LED or HPS. Beyond that is comes down to what system will work best for your needs, plain and simple.

My 2¢

 

[Karr]

re: GrowLEDHydro 300W LED vs. 400W HID Demonstration

Many people that use ac units on their sealed tent actually have the unit inside a house and not actually in a window.

If the unit were in the same area as the area to be cooled it would actually end up heating the air. But when separated as if In a window the air inside the tent is cooled and the outside half is a different climate. This requires a certain range of climate( inside the room outside the tent), proper humidity and temp range. Some people pipe outside air to their ac units if their inside temperature and humidity is not correct for the units condenser..


Long story short a sealed tent using co2 and cooled via ac is still a sealed airtight room (not perfectly sealed, but as close as we get). So no, different from venting as venting kills your co2 efficiency among other things.

 

[Setting Sun]

re: GrowLEDHydro 300W LED vs. 400W HID Demonstration

Apparently my question was overlooked.

Your question wasn't overlooked, I just didn't have an opportunity to get to it yet.

The comparison to me seems biased, seemed more like an effort to keep them the same rather than let one get away from the other.

The only way to isolate the *lights* as the primary variable as much as possible is to provide both groups with as close to the same environment as possible.

But there's other ways to look at it. I could have, for instance, not have upgraded the HID fan to match the lower LED temp, and just allowed the HID tent to run significantly hotter, but that would compare just one aspect of performance and throw everything else off that we're interested in comparing.

My goal on this grow was to balance isolating the lights as much as possible as the main variable against optimizing each tent individually as much as possible.

It turned out to not be as difficult to balance those things as I thought it would be, because both of these lights, while of grossly different design and technology, turn out to work quite well with the same grow setup. Their intensity and coverage doesn't appear to be very different, so they worked well with the same grow parameters and height above canopy.

I'm curious as to what you would have done differently as far as optimizing each tent individually?

In any case, I respect and appreciate your viewpoint and comments, and I don't construe them as being negative.

Something else we may be losing sight of here is that I did this grow primarily for my own personal edification, not to "prove" anything to anyone else. I had searched the Internet for successfully completed LED grows for a long time, couldn't find any, and decided to find out for myself how LED lights work.

I love to grow medical marijuana, and I love to help other people grow medical marijuana, so I did this journal publicly with that in mind, but this grow was done primarily to answer my own questions so I can refine my growing techniques, not to prove anything to anyone else.

And the nute lock out that only happened to the hid side, as I said before that kinda makes the results less than satisfactory IMO.

Both groups were in the same medium with the same nutes, so both groups faced the same issues, although the HID group was more affected by it. With copious flushing, the issue was resolved in both groups to the point where I felt OK with continuing the grow. I agree with you that for whatever reason the HID group was more affected, it could have had some degree of influence in the results, but I don't think it would be significant. Of course, I can't prove that, but in the overall scheme of things, I believe the impact was minimal.

As far as being neutral goes, this thread is filled with LED fanboys who don't dare say anything that might be a downside to LEDs and are quick to point out any HID issues.

well, I can assure you that I wasn't an LED fanboy until I harvested my plants a few days ago, but I certainly am one now

Also, the grower seems to have more experience with LEDs and less interested in the full potential of the HID system.

What I'm interested in is growing nice plants. I'm not loyal to HID or LED, or any other gear, because that wouldn't be in my best interest, and I think it's silly to argue about which technology is "best", because that's just too simplistic a way to look at things. What's best for me might not be best for someone else.

That's why I mention a second run, to be fair. I don't think it was a fair comparison based on the media problem that only one had, the hid.

Again, both groups were in the same media and faced the same issues, but interestingly, the LED plants handled it better.

This grow was more than "fair" enough to convince me that GLH's LED lights are a viable product in my grow room, so from a personal standpoint, I don't see any real need to repeat it.

It may be repeated in the future if I happen to be using the same combination of lights, but who knows.

And again, the results are some great looking smoke and in the end that's what counts.

Good smoke is always nice, but what counts most to me in particular on *this* grow, is that I've answered my own questions about LED lights, and that I now know that I can grow spectacular bud with them in temperatures that have my HID gear gathering dust in a closet.

There, I've said my piece and I"ll leave it at that.

Take it with a grain of salt.

I"m just as interested as anyone to see the LEDs become the mainstream lighting systems. I'm not interested in bashing the LED guys, in fact I encourage all and hope for success for all of us.

I welcome and appreciate your viewpoint and sentiments.

Let me start, I totally get where you are coming from.

Was the experiment scientific? No, it was missing was a control group. But if you really want to "prove" anything you would have to go far beyond a 2nd grow to get any answers. It would take several grows to produce enough usable and stable data (to compensate of unknown variables like the deficiency) to make a truly definitive decision.

In the end though, do we REALLY need to know without an ounce (no pun intended) of doubt which is better? Does one technology absolutely have to crush the other to prove it's worth? They both kicked ass.

What more could we have asked from such a wonderful comparison grow.

This grow is more than enough to prove that one can grow copious amounts of high quality cannabis with either LED or HPS. Beyond that is comes down to what system will work best for your needs, plain and simple.

My 2¢

+1

hey, we got 4¢

 

[SnowBender]

re: GrowLEDHydro 300W LED vs. 400W HID Demonstration

wouldn't a logical "second grow" be where some one else tries to verify SS's findings?

 

[IrishBoy]

re: GrowLEDHydro 300W LED vs. 400W HID Demonstration

this is why i dont do side x sides. did it one time and said screw that noise.lol. all i can say if someone thanks they could do a more valid side x side then SS then do one!

i used HID for many years and now what i could do with it. ive tested a ton of leds in my time and found these lights and use them now. am i a led fanboy? YES because they work good for me and allow me to grow in summer heat where my 1k hps will just fry the girls. and i also get better quality IMO. Do i diss like HPS? no not at all i am a huge supporter of HPS is a amazing light. different strokes for different folks, i just chose to use led.

the thing is this test is as fair as ive seen one done by any one els ever trying to do a side x side, it wont get much better then this IMO.
if you think you can do a better job then do it, and prove ur point.

SS put allot of hard work into this grow, then at the very end when someone see the led doing better then the HID it was unfair. no one said anything like that at the begaining of the grow. also if you want to talk about keeping it fair each room could have had the same fan and could have seen the temps get too hot for the HID and really mess things up. i also dont see allot of members on this thread being led fan boys most dont use leds but HID or CMH. i dont think HID is going anywhere anytime soon, leds still cost allot of money at this point and time.

There, I've said my piece and I"ll leave it at that.

Take it with a grain of salt

 

[GrowLEDHydro]

re: GrowLEDHydro 300W LED vs. 400W HID Demonstration

Beautiful grow SS both sides look amazing!!

Since this grow is now pretty much over id like to offer the forum members a special deal on the Spectra 300's. If anyone is interested please e-mail me at mike@growLEDhydro.com

Thanks to all of you for following this thread and adding in all this great information!!

 

[Taxx]

re: GrowLEDHydro 300W LED vs. 400W HID Demonstration

All I know, regardless of all this "keep it equal" stuff, is that the 300W LED made some kick-ass buds. They appeared to be equal with the 400W HID, but even if they're not, or even if they're better, they still made some smokin' buds. All doubt should be removed as to the effectiveness of LEDs, IMHO.

Taxx

 

[IrishBoy]

re: GrowLEDHydro 300W LED vs. 400W HID Demonstration

All I know, regardless of all this "keep it equal" stuff, is that the 300W LED made some kick-ass buds. They appeared to be equal with the 400W HID, but even if they're not, or even if they're better, they still made some smokin' buds. All doubt should be removed as to the effectiveness of LEDs, IMHO.

Taxx

yes sir! SS is on happy grower right now with all that killer smoke from both sides. its a win win

 

[turttle]

re: GrowLEDHydro 300W LED vs. 400W HID Demonstration

Hey can I pute my 5cents in...I beleive this was a veary good comparison of the lighting.IMO they both have their ups and downs.I am glad to see leds doing the job they are much more user friendly.You dont half to worry about burning your house down and plants seem to have a possitive healthy reaction to the light.As for the hps they have a much larger foot print and penetrate deeper than led and are still the leader in an industrial style of growing the next best thing would be the sun.So far these leds are the best alternative ive seen and they are only getting better by the day.In my opinion they are both great.To me the only thing that sets them apart is a 400 watt hps you can pick up for 250-300 dallars for a good set up and an led of simular outpute is more like a grand.It just that the diodes are still realy expensive even for the builder.But in any case for as many people doing grows with mikes lights they have been proven to work veary well time and time again.

 

[Setting Sun]

re: GrowLEDHydro 300W LED vs. 400W HID Demonstration

Sweet stuff SS! Sexy LED #4 speaks well for your methods and gear, but
Dressed in her bling and underwear, where will you bring her?

She might be a bit shy in the sun, but
In my cage? Anytime! She be welcome

cute, short, voluptuous

trifecta

and she's not going anywhere dressed like that

thank you PG, your visits and company are most appreciated

 

[Setting Sun]

re: GrowLEDHydro 300W LED vs. 400W HID Demonstration

very nice SS

thank you Irish, and I'm glad you've been along for the ride, bro

 

[420 Girl]

re: GrowLEDHydro 300W LED vs. 400W HID Demonstration

Thanks for sharing your grow with us, Setting Sun!

When you have a smoke report ready, don't forget to head over to the 420 Smoke Reports forum and post your smoke report there too!

I’m moving this to completed journals now.

Hope all is well in your world.

Love and respect from all of us here at 420 Magazine!

 

[Keith Lake]

re: GrowLEDHydro 300W LED vs. 400W HID Demonstration

Fantastic results so far.

I can't wait for the dry comparison. This is very demonstrative (i.e. mythbusting) of that nagging claim that LEDs can't be used to flower properly.

I'm intrigued by the differences in trichome characteristics. More but less sticky vs. less by more glue like. Did you form an opinion on any potency differences between the scissor hash from the two groups?

Mad Props to Setting Sun for his amazing work and level playing field

It would be extremely interesting to have a lab analyze the buds, and I don't think it's over the top at all, but I have no idea what's involved or the expense.

This isn't over the top at all. These services are out there and they are affordable.

Here's one in Colorado where the test prices start at $25
Get Tested | Full Spectrum Labs

 

[Setting Sun]

re: GrowLEDHydro 300W LED vs. 400W HID Demonstration

How's that letting them get to a foot thing b4 LST working for you? Alot [sorry G8R!] of folks would hit them earlier, say 3-4 inches, but the ladies look like THEY LIKE IT!

b

It's been working really well, and the effects have been consistent over several strains now, so it seems like a great technique.

The caveat being that since most of the energy of stretch is going to go sideways, you have to have enough horizontal space to accommodate it. I don't prune much, but if things got too crowded, I guess that would be an option.

It's less work this way too, as opposed to fiddling with smaller plants and multiple ties and re-ties.

The ladies seem to love having their energy manipulated(!), and I love what it does to their structure. In addition to all the new secondary colas and the flat canopy, the constant tension and stress of the ties produces really thick and sturdy stems and branches that can carry a lot of bud mass.

With some vigilance in keeping the main cola and any other dominant colas from growing vertically , you can produce a really nice sog canopy with just one or two plants.

I'm really curious to see how it would work on a tall haze, or Thai strain, or something like that.

How do you think they would react? Would it just be an issue of having to tie them down more often, or would they just not do well with it?

 

[Setting Sun]

re: GrowLEDHydro 300W LED vs. 400W HID Demonstration

Thanks for sharing your grow with us, Setting Sun!

When you have a smoke report ready, don't forget to head over to the 420 Smoke Reports forum and post your smoke report there too!

I'm moving this to completed journals now.

Hope all is well in your world.

Love and respect from all of us here at 420 Magazine!

 

[Setting Sun]

re: GrowLEDHydro 300W LED vs. 400W HID Demonstration

Fantastic results so far.

thank you!

I can't wait for the dry comparison. This is very demonstrative (i.e. mythbusting) of that nagging claim that LEDs can't be used to flower properly.

The nagging claims exist because of exaggerated claims made in the past for an immature technology. LED grow lights that perform like this Spectra 300 will re-establish credibility for the LED.

I'm intrigued by the differences in trichome characteristics. More but less sticky vs. less by more glue like. Did you form an opinion on any potency differences between the scissor hash from the two groups?

yes, I did notice some differences.

In fact, you reminded me of another difference I noticed between the buds when I was trimming them.

The aroma of the buds is basically the same, but the LED buds smelled stronger and my eyes actually watered when I was trimming them. Never had my eyes water before like that.

The LED scissor hash was better.

Stronger aroma, better taste, and the high was stronger, spacier, and lasted longer than the HID hash.

Mad Props to Setting Sun for his amazing work and level playing field

This isn't over the top at all. These services are out there and they are affordable.

Here's one in Colorado where the test prices start at $25
Get Tested | Full Spectrum Labs

thanks for the info, I will definitely look into it

 

[Saturn]

re: GrowLEDHydro 300W LED vs. 400W HID Demonstration

Thanks for your response.

I appreciate that you took the time to do this and share it for all of us, make no mistake about that.



One thing of significance as I said before is IF they both had the same media problem and LED did better it sure would be interesting to know why. (LED rep?)


For whatever reason 4 were affected and 4 weren't, or, 4 were less affected?

For those that didn't catch it earlier, the media used was supposed to be ready to use and it wasn't, it needed to be flushed prior to use, or some of them did and some didn't? It's really hard to say.

Please refresh my memory, what was the temps and RH?

Thanks.

S

 

[go green]

re: GrowLEDHydro 300W LED vs. 400W HID Demonstration

That was groovy SS...