Cancer drug interactions

[RkyMtnHi]

I'm starting to treat my lymphoma with THC/CBD oil. I'm using concentrates from a local producer. (Love living in Colorado!)

I just stumbled across information about how cannabis is metabolized, and how it may interact with cancer treatment drugs. I've been reading a bit about CYP enzymes -- liver enzymes that deactivate/metabolize drugs. I don't understand much of what I'm reading, but apparently THC and especially CBD are "potent inhibitors" of these enzymes, see e.g. Cannabidiol is a potent inhibitor of the catalytic activity of cytochrome P450 2C19 - PubMed. This can effectively result in an overdose situation.

I'm not taking traditional toxic chemotherapy, thank God. I'm just starting Ibrutinib and Venetoclax, which are considered "targeted therapies." I don't know 100% for sure if they actually have strong interactions with cannabis. But they can have some fairly nasty side effects, and I don't want to risk a potentially dangerous dose.

Does anyone have experience or solid knowledge on this?

From what I've learned in the last few days, cannabinoids are usually metabolized in the liver, which extracts all the psychoactive goodies and sends them on to your brain &etc. **BUT** supposedly (I'm seeing conflicting claims on this) rectal suppositories do NOT go through the liver, but are absorbed directly into the bloodstream through the wall of the colon. That way there's no interaction with the CYP enzymes. It also avoids the psychoactive high, which is fine with me -- the dosage required for anti-cancer effects is just insane. I've been trying to build up some tolerance for several weeks, but it just whacks me out. Currently I'm using 73% THC concentrate. If I take a "2 grains of rice" dose before bed, I'll sleep well, but the next morning I might fall on my face getting out of bed. I stagger and stumble around for a while before I can navigate safely. I'm loopy for 14-16 HOURS after taking the dose. And I'm supposed to take 15x that much every day!? Rectal dosing sounds like a much better idea. *IF* it keeps it out of the liver. If not, I may have to drop the idea.

Thanks for any pointers --
Gary

 

[Pat Puffer]

I regret hearing of your condition and the resulting therapies. I would like to note, the information is fascinating. I will be reading more on this. I hope someone has some info for you.

Welcome to the site.

 

[Stunger]

I second what @Patient Puffer said. I believe there are many on here with the experience and knowledge you're after. Good luck and I'll be most interested in any further input.

 

[Modest Grower]

I third what the others have said. I am not familiar with the science at play but the logic you laid out for rectal dosing keeping it out of the liver is worth further research in my opinion. Best of luck and please report back for others if you would be willing.

 

[Southerncough]

I too am eager to see where this goes as Mrs cough has cancer in her lymph nodes (but not lymphoma) and is going under the knife tomorrow (Monday) followed by chemo and radiation as soon as she's recovered from surgery(s).
Fortunately when we first started noticing that something wasn't right I had a big afghani that i decided to veg a few extra months into a much bigger afghani and just harvested it in time to make meds for her treatment journey.
Unfortunately she hasn't had much weed lately because the illness has made her so dizzy that the weed just made her more dizzy. But the non psychoactive way may help with that while providing physiological benefits...hmmm...

 

[Stunger]

I too am eager to see where this goes as Mrs cough has cancer in her lymph nodes (but not lymphoma) and is going under the knife tomorrow (Monday) followed by chemo and radiation as soon as she's recovered from surgery(s).
Fortunately when we first started noticing that something wasn't right I had a big afghani that i decided to veg a few extra months into a much bigger afghani and just harvested it in time to make meds for her treatment journey.
Unfortunately she hasn't had much weed lately because the illness has made her so dizzy that the weed just made her more dizzy. But the non psychoactive way may help with that while providing physiological benefits...hmmm...

I hope Mrs Cough responds well and is soon feeling better. The non psychoactive approach would certainly be one way of getting it in the body and better than nothing if it helped. Fortuitous of you to grow the big afghani if you can now use it for meds.

 

[Southerncough]

I hope Mrs Cough responds well and is soon feeling better. The non psychoactive approach would certainly be one way of getting it in the body and better than nothing if it helped. Fortuitous of you to grow the big afghani if you can now use it for meds.

Thanks! I was going to flip her back in November but when we realized that her mystery lump wasn't responding to antibiotics that we may be dealing with something way more serious i decided to wait and flip her on January 1st (6 week strain)

 

[RkyMtnHi]

Thanks! I was going to flip her back in November but when we realized that her mystery lump wasn't responding to antibiotics that we may be dealing with something way more serious i decided to wait and flip her on January 1st (6 week strain)

Careful with those pronouns. For a sec I thought you were going to flip your WIFE!!

Good luck with Mrs. Cough's surgery.

 

[Southerncough]

Haha right? It's been a long week!
What part of Colorado are you in?
We've talked about moving there a few times, even interviewed for a job a few years back but i may have stayed in the tropics too long to handle ANY cold weather

 

[Rexer]

I'm starting to treat my lymphoma with THC/CBD oil. I'm using concentrates from a local producer. (Love living in Colorado!)

I just stumbled across information about how cannabis is metabolized, and how it may interact with cancer treatment drugs. I've been reading a bit about CYP enzymes -- liver enzymes that deactivate/metabolize drugs. I don't understand much of what I'm reading, but apparently THC and especially CBD are "potent inhibitors" of these enzymes, see e.g. Cannabidiol is a potent inhibitor of the catalytic activity of cytochrome P450 2C19 - PubMed. This can effectively result in an overdose situation.

I'm not taking traditional toxic chemotherapy, thank God. I'm just starting Ibrutinib and Venetoclax, which are considered "targeted therapies." I don't know 100% for sure if they actually have strong interactions with cannabis. But they can have some fairly nasty side effects, and I don't want to risk a potentially dangerous dose.

Does anyone have experience or solid knowledge on this?

From what I've learned in the last few days, cannabinoids are usually metabolized in the liver, which extracts all the psychoactive goodies and sends them on to your brain &etc. **BUT** supposedly (I'm seeing conflicting claims on this) rectal suppositories do NOT go through the liver, but are absorbed directly into the bloodstream through the wall of the colon. That way there's no interaction with the CYP enzymes. It also avoids the psychoactive high, which is fine with me -- the dosage required for anti-cancer effects is just insane. I've been trying to build up some tolerance for several weeks, but it just whacks me out. Currently I'm using 73% THC concentrate. If I take a "2 grains of rice" dose before bed, I'll sleep well, but the next morning I might fall on my face getting out of bed. I stagger and stumble around for a while before I can navigate safely. I'm loopy for 14-16 HOURS after taking the dose. And I'm supposed to take 15x that much every day!? Rectal dosing sounds like a much better idea. *IF* it keeps it out of the liver. If not, I may have to drop the idea.

Thanks for any pointers --
Gary

Thread 'Have questions about CBD oil suppositories, please answer it's urgent' Have questions about CBD oil suppositories, please answer it's urgent

Might be some good reading. A member on here, whom I never had the pleasure of talking with has added much to the knowledge base on the subject. The member is @SweetSue

in the top right corner is a search feature. Type Cancer, then sweetsue for member and you will find a treasure trove of good information.

I too am eager to see where this goes as Mrs cough has cancer in her lymph nodes (but not lymphoma) and is going under the knife tomorrow (Monday) followed by chemo and radiation as soon as she's recovered from surgery(s).
Fortunately when we first started noticing that something wasn't right I had a big afghani that i decided to veg a few extra months into a much bigger afghani and just harvested it in time to make meds for her treatment journey.
Unfortunately she hasn't had much weed lately because the illness has made her so dizzy that the weed just made her more dizzy. But the non psychoactive way may help with that while providing physiological benefits...hmmm...

Thoughts and prayers to her and your family, I hope everything goes good tomorrow

 

[RkyMtnHi]

@Southerncough , I live in Fort Collins, an hour north of Denver.

@Rexer, thanks, I saw that thread. And I've been reading LOTS of Sue's posts.

 

[Nunyabiz]

I would use multiple strain cannabis oil and definitely use suppositories.
Taking it orally I believe you get about a 20% absorption of cannabinoids and rectally its like 70%.
It needs to be placed just barely inside, too far in and it goes through the liver and you'll be riding the magic carpet.
I wouldn't stop taking the oil orally or smoking it either, I'd consume the oil every way you can, bathe in it, stick in yer ear, snort it if you have to but get it in there everywhere.

Depending on the aggressiveness of your cancer I would stop any kind of chemo and give the cannabis oil a chance.
If its aggressive and doctors aren't giving much time then hit with everything you got.

But definitely do suppositories.

Neither my wife nor I have cancer that we know of, but I am thinking of at least once a year making up lots of cannabis oil and making suppositories for both of us to take everyday for a month for preventative maintenance just in case some cancer is trying to take hold we can stop it before it starts.

There is a show on YouTube called Cannabis Health Radio, I believe there are more than 300 episodes currently and they usually have a new show every week.
Might be worth checking out.
You could also contact one of the people on the show Corrie Yelland and have her talk you through what you need.
She has helped 1000s.

I think the last episode was some guy a caregiver in Yugoslavia, he was a bit hard to understand but I believe his success rate curing mostly brain cancer i believe was what he was concentrating on was over 70% using only cannabis oil.
The episode before that was a woman that had been battling cancer EVERY kind of cancer you can imagine for 28 years, she's had it and it kept coming back and she tried cannabis oil and bam, cancer gone and hasn't returned.

Wish you the best of luck.

 

[RkyMtnHi]

Hi @Nunyabiz, I've tried to reach Corrie several times. She is apparently swamped and is not keeping up with the incoming tsunami of mail.

I wish I had gotten my s*** together months ago so I could have started this then. Stupid. But now the cancer is starting to move, and I really do want to start the treatment. These targeted treatments have very good results. Once I've been on it for a while, assuming it knocks the stuff off-balance, then I might go off the treatment for a couple of months and hammer it with cannabis.

Seriously, the difference between "in a little" and "in a bit more" is enough to route it to the liver!?? How on earth can that work?? Farther in is the colon wall, and that's going to absorb straight into the blood. How does it get from colon to liver without being absorbed into the blood?? That makes no sense to me.

 

[Nunyabiz]

Hi @Nunyabiz, I've tried to reach Corrie several times. She is apparently swamped and is not keeping up with the incoming tsunami of mail.

I wish I had gotten my s*** together months ago so I could have started this then. Stupid. But now the cancer is starting to move, and I really do want to start the treatment. These targeted treatments have very good results. Once I've been on it for a while, assuming it knocks the stuff off-balance, then I might go off the treatment for a couple of months and hammer it with cannabis.

Seriously, the difference between "in a little" and "in a bit more" is enough to route it to the liver!?? How on earth can that work?? Farther in is the colon wall, and that's going to absorb straight into the blood. How does it get from colon to liver without being absorbed into the blood?? That makes no sense to me.

It is odd that it makes so much difference but it does.
Up higher is the "Superior Rectal Vein" which goes to the liver, just barely inside is the "Inferior Rectal Vein" and that does not go to the liver.

How to use cannabis suppositories for effective cannabis delivery

When you know how to use suppositories, you can facilitate effective cannabis delivery. For some people, it's what is needed to save their life.

cannabislifenetwork.com

 

[Southerncough]

I would use multiple strain cannabis oil and definitely use suppositories.
Taking it orally I believe you get about a 20% absorption of cannabinoids and rectally its like 70%.
It needs to be placed just barely inside, too far in and it goes through the liver and you'll be riding the magic carpet.
I wouldn't stop taking the oil orally or smoking it either, I'd consume the oil every way you can, bathe in it, stick in yer ear, snort it if you have to but get it in there everywhere.

Depending on the aggressiveness of your cancer I would stop any kind of chemo and give the cannabis oil a chance.
If its aggressive and doctors aren't giving much time then hit with everything you got.

But definitely do suppositories.

Neither my wife nor I have cancer that we know of, but I am thinking of at least once a year making up lots of cannabis oil and making suppositories for both of us to take everyday for a month for preventative maintenance just in case some cancer is trying to take hold we can stop it before it starts.

There is a show on YouTube called Cannabis Health Radio, I believe there are more than 300 episodes currently and they usually have a new show every week.
Might be worth checking out.
You could also contact one of the people on the show Corrie Yelland and have her talk you through what you need.
She has helped 1000s.

I think the last episode was some guy a caregiver in Yugoslavia, he was a bit hard to understand but I believe his success rate curing mostly brain cancer i believe was what he was concentrating on was over 70% using only cannabis oil.
The episode before that was a woman that had been battling cancer EVERY kind of cancer you can imagine for 28 years, she's had it and it kept coming back and she tried cannabis oil and bam, cancer gone and hasn't returned.

Wish you the best of luck.

Fortunately they're hoping to remove most of my wife's cancer surgically and there may be some in her throat that the surgeon will be looking for tomorrow. Then they will use the chemo and radiation therapy to mop up afterwards. The bad news is that if we don't act quickly she's at risk of it spreading to her jaw and tongue which can really make life difficult, especially if they have to remove any of that tissue!
Still planning to do some heavy medicating and the suppository may be a great option as smoking or swallowing will be very difficult for a while

 

[copperrein]

Whatever you chose to do, keep your doctors informed.

 

[Southerncough]

Whatever you chose to do, keep your doctors informed.

They know she has her med card and have no issues with it (as long as she's not smoking it). We stuff capsules with decarb'd homegrown and she takes those instead of oxy's. So, pretty much replacing one really nasty pain pill (that could destroy her body, mind, and life) with one that could destroy some snacks LOL.

 

[RkyMtnHi]

Whatever you chose to do, keep your doctors informed.

My onc isn't real comfortable with it, because he has no knowledge about THC/CBD and doesn't know what to expect. But he's willing to work with me. He says he'll keep an eye out for adverse interactions with my therapy drugs. He's a keeper.

 

[Redwiggler]

I had Hodgkins Lymphoma, Stage four..actually tried rice sizeshots of oil under my tongue..I was on the poison series of treatment. Nasty stuff. Anyway, I had to quit..don’t know about interaction, but the oil really messed me up..more!
I totally couldn’t function for almost 24 hrs by myself..wife had to hold me up when I got out of bed. Help me up and down the stairs.
a suggestion: ask your Oncology Pharmacist , they usually accompany the oncologist at every examination . We aren’t the people to ask...this is life and death stuff.

 

[RkyMtnHi]

@Redwiggler, where do you live?? They must do things differently there. I've never heard of a pharmacist accompanying an oncologist (or any other doctor) to an appointment.

But the pharmacist is in the loop. The oncologist's assistant ran all of my (many) supplements &etc. past a pharmacist to check for interactions.