ClosetCase420's - RDWC - 600W MH/HPS - Wonder Woman - Grow Journal - 2015

[Papageno]

LOL...Seems like a life time ago when I told you if it is in the good zone leave it alone.

No big dealio.

Remember when we first hooked up it was because you had your recirc spouts pointing at your cubes?

Well anyway most people bury the sprouting medium in the clay.



The flowers are looking good!

Thanks for the update...I was getting itchy...I am excited to see this one through.

 

[closetcase420]

I know I should have just left things alone. I was looking at the chart and thought it wouldn't be a bad idea to bring the PH down a bit which is why i changed things up a little.

If I bury the rapid rooters under the clay pellets won't that make the stem come up all sorts of crooked?
The difference between the recirc last time and this time is last time I had the tubes pointed directly at the rapid rooters and on a steady slow stream. This time the tubes are set up as a slow drip that is actually dripping next to the rapid rooters, not directly on them. I've been keeping an eye on them for moisture to make sure they are not over saturated.

A couple pictures this morning before the light came on.. I like how the flash really exposes the buds.

 

[Mrgardengrove]

Top notch man, those buds are really swelling nicely! Everything looks great!

 

[Papageno]

good .... I knew you were not doing it wrong just wanted to be sure. You are probably the fastest student I have worked with. I hate to say it but it is kind of good to see that when you violate the rules things went a bit south on you...LOL....Even better that you are savvy enough to know what to do now. That is how you learn is proving to yourself these basic rules.


Have you see the ratting of your journal? You have a 5 Star journal now. People will be referring to this for some time I bet. You have done the community a service here and should be proud!


And again...No more Nitrogen. You have enough for the rest of the grow in those leaves. You are in the middle phase called bud stacking. You are getting close to maturation and resin top off. When they stop fattening we really need to bring down the nutes and that is gonna happen in about 2 weeks, maybe less. So you are near the top of your nute program right now. From here on I would use medium doses of something that is 0 nitrogen like MOAB. There are many brands, that is just the one I use because it was recommended so I only say it all the time because it comes to mind easily. But that doesn't mean anything about it being better.

 

[Far East Buds]

I was just asked to look into someones journal...someone who has been checking this one out (probably because I told them to)...and they have massive Nitrogen toxicity. Man this is a heck of a week for that. I mentioned it like twice in the past 6 months and this week it is inside every link.

ME

Thanks VI


FE

 

[closetcase420]

Have you see the ratting of your journal? You have a 5 Star journal now. People will be referring to this for some time I bet. You have done the community a service here and should be proud!

Awesome.. let's finish it out well

So I want to talk about my feeding today. I was about 5 gallons down today and made a mix to fill the tank. Keeping in mind your suggestion to avoid any further nitrogen I eliminated two of the solutions I've been adding. However; I still added CalMag which apparently contains Nitrogen so I'm iffy on the mixture.

I've taken a picture of each bottle in my regiment below and listed what I added based on 5 gallon fill up. Please let me know your thoughts and suggestions for each.

CalMag, 15ml
This was the first supplement I added and I read the label after I had already added it to the 5 gallon tank I working with. I noticed it does have a high'ish percentage of Nitrogen. I've been using this in every top off and water change throughout the entire grow; maybe this is why it appears the Nitrogen levels are high? Should I avoid using this anymore at this point in the grow?

Silica Blast, 15ml
Apparently I forgot to take a picture of this label. Per Google this contains Soluble Potash (K2O): 0.5%
As with CalMag I've been using this throughout the grow during every top off and water change.

Orca, 3ml
I've been using this since just before the switch to flowering. I've added this with every water change. Beneficial bacteria correct?

FloraGro, skipped
I've been adding FloraGro at 1ml per gallon throughout the grow at every water change. I skipped it with this top off since it contains high levels of Nitrogen. Should I avoid using this anymore at this point in the grow?

FloraMicro, skipped
I've been adding FloraMicro at 1ml per gallon throughout the grow at every water change. I skipped it with this top off since it contains high levels of Nitrogen. Should I avoid using this anymore at this point in the grow?

FloraBloom, 15ml
I've been adding FloraBloom at 1ml per gallon throughout the grow at every water change.

FloraNectar, 20ml
Once again I'm not really sure the reasoning behind this supplement and whether I should or should not using it at this time.

Nirvana, 20ml
This is the supplement I know the absolute least about. I'm pretty sure this is similar to the Orca and the FloraNectar

MOAB, skipped
I've only used this in one water change so far. I intend to use it during the last 3 weeks of flowering which is what the label recommends. Thoughts?

As you can see from most of my comments I'm really not sure why I am running the combinations I'm running. I want to understand that better. Can you tell me what I should and should not be using at this time throughout the rest of bloom?

 

[Papageno]

LOL...you make this so much fun!!!!


Well lets just go down the list and explain each one. At the end I will make recommendation...

Cal Mag supplements are very hard to over do. So they will recommend using it every time because it wont burn. You really don't need to do it but once every 2 weeks. If you didn't have the overdose of nitrogen in there then that plus the bloom nutes would be good way to end but looking back at some pics I feel you definitely got too much in there.

Silica / Potash: Just about every silica product has Potash added (maybe all of them...I just haven't read about ll of them). That is because Silica is supper alkaline so adding Potash helps bring it down. Potash is the source of potassium almost in all fertilizers. So it is another word for potassium. It comes from the original process used to make potassium fertilizers and one of the largest fertilizer companies in the world is named Potash. They trade on the stock exchange with the ticker POT ...LOL This also is something that in hydro you can added every other week if following a reasonable uptake rate. I however use it as my UP in adjusting things because it is easier and also very hard to over do the silica or potassium. So since I use a little here and there i never need to worry about adding it on a schedule.

Orca is a different conversation. Yes bennies and more..That is symbiotic microbes and fungi. That makes everything work better...I could go on for days about why..just let that one be. You can't over do those but beyond a point it is just wasting money. It is however what kept your roots so nice and healthy. This as well only needs to be added every other week but the microbes only live between 2-5 days. So adding them weekly is fine just they are fighting against no one. Advanced Nutrients recommends every 2 weeks for there product just for that reason.

Now getting into the GH series it is all about the N-P-K ratting. they will have a program on their website that is good to follow but you have stepped a bit outside the lines here so we want to modify this.

(do you know the difference in Macro and Micro nutes?)

Flora Gro is your standard Veg nute. Not really needed in bloom. This is Macro nutes that are replaced with other macros in bloom.
Flora Micro is you micro nute base but again near the end of bloom as the plant is shutting down we are using what is stored up from veg and don't need it in the res.
Flora bloom is your Macro nute in bloom and really is all you need
Flora nectar this is the sugars we have talked about that keep the microbes kicking and provides some micro nutes and amino acids. this makes nice flowers.

Nirvana no you have this wrong. It is supper plant food that has 2 of the best organic plant foods in the world. It is basically Alfalfa and Atlantic Sea Kelp. they have amazing effects on the plant and the alfalfa provides lots of the micro nutes so you can axe the flora series micro that has too much nitrogen.

MOAB is straight up strong chemical bloom fertilizers.


So what we want to run right now is:

* Calmag and silica every 2 weeks. If you water change every 2 weeks use them then.
* Orca Once a week...This adds no nutrients but does help to break down stuff like the silica and molasses from the flora nectar making them work better.
* Flora Bloom during bloom with every top off
* Flora nectar during bloom with every top off
* Nirvana During bloom at least once a week. This is your micro nutes

MOAB we can leave out for now as you have the flora bloom. They are basically the same thing only MOAB is much more concentrated and cheaper to use. It stores well you can use it next time.


That should do you through the end I think.

As stated before we will start to drop off the PPMs in a week or so. We will play it by ear. I bet there is minor stunting from the nitrogen overdose that may slow us down some so we shall just monitor (as we should) and manage the situation (which is just the way we do things).

Great job though!

 

[Papageno]

And next grow I will teach you how to make your own Tea that has everything up there (and more) except the Cal/Mag and Silica.

 

[Papageno]

Hey also just wanted to say...MOAB says on the label to use it the first week of bloom to induce flowering...Well I use it at VERY low strength in the last week of veg so the nutes are in the plant when I flip the lights. I sexed in 12 hours this last time (I was in soil though). But after my first night period, I am not kidding, I saw fully formed pistils (shown below). I attribute it to using the Nirvana and MOAB leading up to Bloom. I learned this trick more than 10 years ago just now there are some real nice products like those 2 that make the plant want to bloom.

After 12 hours...It was hard to find and the only ones on the plant but they were clear as a bell. And I never do any of that 36 hour dark period nonsense to initiate bloom. That is an old wives tale that is based on a fundamental misunderstanding of how the blooming hormone works.

Just some tricks from an old fart.

 

[closetcase420]

So I need help understanding what is happening with the res the last couple days

On 1/24 the res was 5.6/510 after I had topped off with about 5 gallons.

On 1/25 the water dropped about 2 gallons, the res was reading 5.3/500
why the PH drop?

On 1/26 the water dropped another 2 gallons, the res was reading 4.1/540
once again, why the PH drop?

It seems whenever the res get's down between 1/2 and 2/3 full the PH drops dramatically.

The other question is regarding the leaves. I can run my finger from the bud to the tip and its smooth, not sticky at all. However when I run my finger from the tip towards the bud it's like sandpaper. The leaves do not appear to be very resinous, not nearly as much as previous grows. Is this an issue?

 

[Papageno]

You need to up the nutes BUT NOT THE NITROGEN.

I think you still want 800-1000 ppm but use that MOAB stuff to get you there.


I explained this a few weeks back in a long winded entry about pH dropping and PPM being stable and water dropping. The plant is trying t absorb more nutes than is available. The roots will at night store up nutes. then during the day when it can transpire it uses that as a means to move nutes up via water transportation. But the nutes are higher concentrated in the roots and leaching back into the res.

I think you are still 2 weeks from full blossom and then you have like a week or so to get through resin top off. That is when you cut back. I may have said to cut back too early. I think I was saying soon but not now.

You want to get back to 800 with just the MOAB and see what happens. If it keep dropping then we add some more.

I doubt heavily that it is an infection or rotting because 500 PPM is too low. Give the res a smell and check the roots. if all is good then lets up the nutes. If not then we throw in the Orca strong dose through the net pots.

Don't let it tank on you like that again. Keep it in the 5's for sure. Remember last time you let that get that low and it was an issue?

When you read this go take a res measurement and then pull some res water out and mix in the moab and put it back and keep doing this in very small increments until the res is up to 800 and then pH the res and then wait an hour and take another reading.

 

[closetcase420]

First and foremost thanks for the awesome answer.
I couldn't do anything this morning before work so I'll have to take care of this later tonight.

When you read this go take a res measurement and then pull some res water out and mix in the moab and put it back and keep doing this in very small increments until the res is up to 800 and then pH the res and then wait an hour and take another reading.

So the goal is to go from 500 to 800 with just MOAB? Seems like an awful lot of MOAB is going to be needed to get that high level of conductivity.

I think you are still 2 weeks from full blossom and then you have like a week or so to get through resin top off. That is when you cut back.

Today is 40 Days in Flower, almost 6 weeks. I've never taken Wonder Woman out past 8 weeks flower, according to Nirvana where I got the seeds they have a 8-10 week flowering period. I'm not understanding your thoughts, if I stay at full concentration for another 2 weeks how long will I have to lower the concentration before I just stop putting in nutrients all together? Can you give me your projected timeline for finishing this out?

 

[Papageno]

2 Weeks is based on the last pic and seeing it has not filled in and has no brown pistils yet. 8-10 weeks is ideal without any issues. You have created and overcome many issues in this run. I don't know if your temps and humidity are ideal. It is hard in a small box to keep it correct especially during the dark cycle. Having Nitrogen overdose will have likely slowed down the growth a bit. But 8 to 10 is really not saying much. that is standard flowering times for generic cannabis properly grown in perfect conditions.

8-10 weeks is a perfect grow that is based probably on about 1 month of Veg. A plant should have 4 weeks of veg to be mature enough to bloom. That said most strains take 2 months in bloom to mature. 4 weeks min veg, 8 weeks to properly bloom min. That is how cannabis works. Also going a bit longer is always better. The plant will reach peak potency and then that starts to degrade and as that happens more stuff comes in that make the high last longer and feel better. So there is always a trade off between max potency and a better high. I go with aging it a bit more to get a better longer high and if I want to be higher I smoke more. the 8-10 weeks is where they are saying the choice comes into play. they are saying in a perfect grow at 8 weeks bloom the potency has maxed (totally standard cannabis) and after 10 weeks the other effects are not improving and the potency is starting to degrade so you need to chop it down (again totally standard times).

So if you are in week six of bloom I am saying 2 more weeks probably to get you to 8 then you start dropping nutes fast over week 9 then 0 nutes week 10 and you may have perfectly timed it. Also when you go down to 0 nutes raise the light all the way. Get it as fr away as possible. You aren't doing photosynthesis at that point you want the resin to pack on. And then the last day and a half of week 10 you do 36 hours no light. But I would play it by ear man. Lets watch the flowers maturity and let it tell us.

when you are in week 8 going into 9 to start running it down just top off with pHd water with the Sugar and some microbes and let the res naturally dilute unless that gets too low. follow that chart I posted a few times for the drop off. If it is too low use a dash of MOAB.


MOAB is strong and concentrated stuff. It wont be hard to bring up the res. That is why I said slowly. You could easily over do it.


Lastly I think you said once that in your first few grows it worked but you didn't get really thick nice buds. I don't know how this one compares but if you did some things wrong in the past and now are dong some things better then maybe comparing the harvest times from then to now is not fair.

 

[closetcase420]

By the time I was able to get to this yesterday the PH was low once again, dropped to 4.6.

So last night I took 3 gallons out of the res and added back 3 gallons of MOAB concentrated water.

I was able to bring the PH up to 5.4 and PPMs to 690.

I'm will take another reading in a few hours.

If the PH is steady do I still want to try and increase PPMs up towards 900? Keep in mind for the majority of the grow I was right around 700.

Also I took a few pictures of the root structure under the lid..

 

[closetcase420]

If the PH is steady do I still want to try and increase PPMs up towards 900? Keep in mind for the majority of the grow I was right around 700.

Scratch that thought.. I took a reading today and it had dropped to 4.4 over night.

I've swapped out another 5 gallons today.

This time I went with a mixture of MOAB and Nirvana at 5.9/810 which brought the res to 5.5/730 for now

I'm out of MOAB now.
Do you think I should try and increase the nute level in the res over 800? If so which of the supplements I have now should I use?

 

[VladimirPutin]

How is the color of the leaf?

If it's not dark enough green you could try upping the PPMs by 100 or 150 and see how she reacts.

I think you`re fine without the increase though

Vlad

 

[Papageno]

Time for a res change.


Get a fresh res in there and run the Orca through the medium like you have in the past. No need for silica at this point.

Use your standard nutes like I posted a few days back...the flora series and the nectar. Get it up to 800 and see what happens.

 

[Papageno]

Do you have any enzymes? There are lots of brands they will help.

The brown on the roots may just be staining form the Cal Mag. They may not so get a double dose of that orca in there. I am still hesitant to get you on my tea on this grow. I have lots of people using it and it has saved a bunch of grows lately but it is something I wanted to have you try next time. This time you have done very good sticking to bottles. I think we can finish this way. If not...then maybe we start sophomore year early.

It is strong and takes a day to 2 to brew and you need to run out and get stuff. So it aint a quick fix for you...it is once you have everything.


But you may have some rot started. I don't think so but lets just get some clean res water with a bunch of good stuff in there.

 

[closetcase420]

Day 90 (42 Days in Flower)

I did a full res change as requested.

I had a hell of a time trying to get the PPMs up to 800 on a full 15 gallon res.

I used...

90ml CalMag
125ml FloraBloom
150ml FloraNectar
30ml Orca
150ml Nirvana

this brought the res to 5.8/770
Note that this is atleast 2x the amount I've used during this entire grow.
I seriously would have thought with the amount of nutrients I added that I'd be over 1000 PPMs

Also while the res was empty I took a few shots of the roots. No rot or slime that I can tell, just stained from the Flora Micro and Nirvana. The Nirvana is like tar, I spilled a couple drops on the floor and it stained the concrete.

 

[Papageno]

Yeah those roots a great. it has been a few hours...what the res like now?