Decoding The Holy Grail: Terpene & Cannabinoid Retention: Decarb to Extraction

[SweetSue]

The arithmetic says that a significant amount of CO2 would be released during decarb, but it seems like it could be a stretch to use that for an indicator of completion. What if, for example, the first CO2 released went into solution, then a bunch got released early in the process, and then that process tapered off. (That's how I'd expect it to go.) You'd get few bubbles, lots of bubbles, and then few bubbles. That's hard to use as an indicator since it's so nonlinear. It's nice to think "Decarb makes bubbles so just watch the bubbles," but processes are seldom so simple...

I read an article once about a guy who had a fancy new telescope mirror checker. He took it to a star party in which all the people who had ground their own mirrors for their telescopes were proudly showing off their work. He went up to each one with his new tool and was able to tell them, "Your mirror has 12.5% distortion," "Your mirror has 15.3% distortion," etc., thinking they'd be happy to know exactly how good their results were. Then he saw the unhappy looks on their faces and realized that this is why scientists and engineers are sometimes left off the guest list.

Haha! I can imagine.....

But even if it went to fewer bubbles in the end, you'd still have bubbles, wouldn't you? Gasses venting from oil cause bubbles. Or are you suggesting that the bubbles could be so small at some point that we wouldn't necessarily notice them?

Finally had the opportunity to try out a second run on oil soaked mash.

Quick recap: combo decarb and extraction using olive oil with approx 5 grams of air dried flower. Did a 2.5 hour bake at 220F in the toaster oven. Drained off the oil.

Added enough new oil to cover the mash with about 1/8 inch extra. Baked this for an additional hour. Drained off the oil, added LSL and left it in the fridge overnight.

Tried a sample first thing this am. The results were good - pretty much the same as the first run oil.

Conclusion: matched the C&K lab results and confirmed that it is worth doing the second extraction.

I've mixed the two oils together for storage in the fridge.
The leftover mash is in the freezer while I contemplate what to do with it. Smoothies and home made nutrition bars seem like good possibles. Also salad dressings, baking into banana cake, cookies and the like.

I prefer mine with a little stevia added for sweetness and a swig of water to wash the bits into the stomach myself, but I could see baking it into some food as well.

Thank you for giving this a try. I may start saving the mash and starting the new batch with this secondary wash, then strain out and proceed as normal. That should pick up a significant amount of the left behind cannabinoids, wouldn't you think Oldbear?

 

[Scientific]

But even if it went to fewer bubbles in the end, you'd still have bubbles, wouldn't you? Gasses venting from oil cause bubbles. Or are you suggesting that the bubbles could be so small at some point that we wouldn't necessarily notice them?

I was just suggesting caution, not to simply assume that bubbles can be used as a good indication of process complete without some verification.

 

[Oldbear]

Sue based on my experiment, yes you will indeed pick up Cannabinoids (plus terpenes that are hanging around) on the second pass.

 

[SweetSue]

I was just suggesting caution, not to simply assume that bubbles can be used as a good indication of process complete without some verification.

Ok. I understand. For someone like me, who lacks the option of testing, bubbles are the best indicator. After 38 hours I'm still getting lots. It'll be used in brownies, so I'm figuring it'll decarb the rest of the way in that step.

 

[InTheShed]

For what it's worth (very little I'm guessing), I took the SkunkPharm graph line at 176°F and drew it out as a straight line (with the enormous assumption that it continues as a straight line) and it got to the 15mg/g mark on the chart at 16.35 hours. This is completely rough as it's based on a graph with no marks beyond 27 on the X axis and it's just an image from the web. But without the option to test, I Photoshop!

 

[308jerry]

Sumbudy gotta write it up for a journal article or the feds are gonna cut our funding!

The Feds caught on early and nipped the funding soon after it started.... LMAO

 

[SweetSue]

The Feds caught on early and nipped the funding soon after it started.... LMAO

You guys.........

I turned the oven off at 2, cracked the oven door open, and went to take care of some errands. When I came back the surface of the oil was calm. After a brisk couple shakes this was all the bubbles I got.

In my world that's the perfect look before going into the fridge to rest overnight. Tomorrow I'll have my favorite brownie doses available again.

 

[Canyon]

I have been doing double duty with the household chores so I have been slow getting the charts workable. Scorpio volunteered to work with the file and look into making it viewable for everyone. I just sent him the last piece about 2 hours ago.

Someone volunteered to borrow a Nova and have a terpene test run after their next harvest. Those results will probably be the deciding factor as to whether I buy one.

We still have some of the NC buds that we have tests on. Is a sealed jar decarb terpene test worth the last freebee?

It is going to be longer than I thought before I make another Albuquerque trip. My wife can have the staples removed locally and the next appointment is in early November.

Has anyone looked into this?
MyDx | A Device for a Better Life
Or search for cdxlife.

I never know

 

[Scientific]

Has anyone looked into this?
MyDx | A Device for a Better Life
Or search for cdxlife.

Wow, it doesn't just give THC levels to two decimal places, it gives terpene levels too. I wonder what the sensor technology is and how accurate it is.

It's $700 and you need a new $70 sensor about every six months, so I think I'll wait for the cheap Chinese clone that will probably appear in a couple of years and sell for $99 (though the My DX info says that the device is "supported by 50 patents," but that "supported" sounds like they don't actually own the patents. Maybe they're licensing them?)

The device uses your smart phone as a display and has a "feelings" screen ("happy" "relaxed" "creative") and med screen ("insomnia" etc.) that set off my BS detector, but I'm sure they will be a hit with the gullible, suggestible Leafly readers.

FWIW, here's some kind of press release thang: MyDx Inc (OTCMKTS:MYDX) Reports Successful Quality Control And Assurance Screening Of MyDx 2.0 Units | MMJ Observer

Overall, it looks kinda cool if it actually works!

You know, Sue, I'll bet if you contacted their marketing person and referenced this thread and your blog, they'd send you an evaluation unit to try in hopes that they would get free publicity here for what is exactly their target market.

 

[Kicknitup1]

For what it's worth (very little I'm guessing), I took the SkunkPharm graph line at 176°F and drew it out as a straight line (with the enormous assumption that it continues as a straight line) and it got to the 15mg/g mark on the chart at 16.35 hours. This is completely rough as it's based on a graph with no marks beyond 27 on the X axis and it's just an image from the web. But without the option to test, I Photoshop!

I don't think it will be a straight line.

 

[Kicknitup1]

I have been doing double duty with the household chores so I have been slow getting the charts workable. Scorpio volunteered to work with the file and look into making it viewable for everyone. I just sent him the last piece about 2 hours ago.

Someone volunteered to borrow a Nova and have a terpene test run after their next harvest. Those results will probably be the deciding factor as to whether I buy one.

We still have some of the NC buds that we have tests on. Is a sealed jar decarb terpene test worth the last freebee?

It is going to be longer than I thought before I make another Albuquerque trip. My wife can have the staples removed locally and the next appointment is in early November.

Has anyone looked into this?
MyDx | A Device for a Better Life
Or search for cdxlife.

I never know

It would be worth it if you could use a really stable oven. The way yours is acting right now, Im afraid you won't know anything. The Nova is almost the same setup as the sealed jar. Im really curious about decarbing in the oil. But I don't think anyone has a time locked down for that.

 

[Kicknitup1]

I have been doing double duty with the household chores so I have been slow getting the charts workable. Scorpio volunteered to work with the file and look into making it viewable for everyone. I just sent him the last piece about 2 hours ago.

Someone volunteered to borrow a Nova and have a terpene test run after their next harvest. Those results will probably be the deciding factor as to whether I buy one.

We still have some of the NC buds that we have tests on. Is a sealed jar decarb terpene test worth the last freebee?

It is going to be longer than I thought before I make another Albuquerque trip. My wife can have the staples removed locally and the next appointment is in early November.

Has anyone looked into this?
MyDx | A Device for a Better Life
Or search for cdxlife.

I never know

I love the concept. $700 with a $70 replacement part every 6 months plus supplies gave me pause. It would be cool to have if it was accurate.

 

[InTheShed]

I don't think it will be a straight line.

Absolutely, but would you be thinking upward curve (decarbed in less time) or flattening (decarbed in god-knows-how-long)?

 

[SweetSue]

Wow, it doesn't just give THC levels to two decimal places, it gives terpene levels too. I wonder what the sensor technology is and how accurate it is.

It's $700 and you need a new $70 sensor about every six months, so I think I'll wait for the cheap Chinese clone that will probably appear in a couple of years and sell for $99 (though the My DX info says that the device is "supported by 50 patents," but that "supported" sounds like they don't actually own the patents. Maybe they're licensing them?)

The device uses your smart phone as a display and has a "feelings" screen ("happy" "relaxed" "creative") and med screen ("insomnia" etc.) that set off my BS detector, but I'm sure they will be a hit with the gullible, suggestible Leafly readers.

FWIW, here's some kind of press release thang: MyDx Inc (OTCMKTS:MYDX) Reports Successful Quality Control And Assurance Screening Of MyDx 2.0 Units | MMJ Observer

Overall, it looks kinda cool if it actually works!

You know, Sue, I'll bet if you contacted their marketing person and referenced this thread and your blog, they'd send you an evaluation unit to try in hopes that they would get free publicity here for what is exactly their target market.

God, I love your twisted sense of humor. Their readers laugh at it the same way we do. Makes you wonder about who handles their editing.

OK.... I hadn't considered the possibility of exploiting my presence and the thread for benefit, but this sounds interesting. If I don't ask they can't say yes, can they? Mind if I consult with you as I go forward with it? Have you proofread the communique and whatever else arises that I might benefit from just by absorbing some of your confidence?

 

[SweetSue]

I just checked and the thread's been up two months and has 20,532 views and 693 posts. Obviously a lot of interest that could be increased with a little product testing. Can we report on it without violating site guidelines? Hmmm..... I'll inquire before I contact any representative.

 

[Canyon]

God, I love your twisted sense of humor. Their readers laugh at it the same way we do. . Makes you wonder about who handles their editing.

OK.... I hadn't considered the possibility of exploiting my presence and the thread for benefit, but this sounds interesting. If I don't ask they can't say yes, can they? Mind if I consult with you as I go forward with it? Have you proofread the communique and whatever else arises that I might benefit from just by absorbing some of your confidence?

ER...I was thinking that the tCheck people owed everyone on the thread one of theirs.

There is a lot going on with these quick check analyzers. The one SH Labs does flowers for around $40 THC,THCA, CBD, CBDA. They are adding oils and extracts next year. Then tCheck is adding a flower option as well as a selection of raw or decarbed.

The Mydx has a replaceable detector. That begs the question of how long the tCheck will last before it has problems? Kicken is the only person I know with one.

While you are asking about the Mydx,you could mention that I would appreciate one as well.

You never know, you know

[;>)

 

[Scientific]

I hadn't considered the possibility of exploiting my presence and the thread for benefit, but this sounds interesting. If I don't ask they can't say yes, can they? Mind if I consult with you as I go forward with it? Have you proofread the communique and whatever else arises that I might benefit from just by absorbing some of your confidence?

Sure I'd be happy to do whatever helps.

 

[Canyon]

Scientific,
I don't know how the detector is set up but the light source for the tCheck is an LED. I have no idea what wave length. That is just from listening to one side of a phone conversation. Apparently they can have varying brightness. They thought that was what caused the problems with Kickn's. When you think about it, the light source would be a critical piece.

 

[Scientific]

Scientific,
I don't know how the detector is set up but the light source for the tCheck is an LED. I have no idea what wave length. That is just from listening to one side of a phone conversation. Apparently they can have varying brightness. They thought that was what caused the problems with Kickn's. When you think about it, the light source would be a critical piece.

That's cool as far as it goes, but I think they gonna need a whole lot more going on in there than just an LED to give levels of a dozen substances to two decimal places. Maybe the technology has made a quantum leap, but what comes to mind here is gas chromatography mass spectrometry, which has a starting price way higher than $700.

But like I said, maybe something miraculous has happened since I got out of the instrument end of the game. (It has been a while...) We have chips that can process DNA samples now, so there have been some amazing advances!

 

[Kicknitup1]

Absolutely, but would you be thinking upward curve (decarbed in less time) or flattening (decarbed in god-knows-how-long)?

The lower the temp, the longer the arc; peaking...somewhere then gently sloping down. It's a first order reaction.