HPS vs LED? Depends on climate

[Fred Fox]

Though a topic widely discussed, I started a new thread because its hard to find the important stuff amidst a lot of reading. And that is, LED and HPS are both excellent, but the choice of light depends on what temperature you are growing in, more than the quality of the light.

As a rough guide, you use LED in summer, and HPS in winter. Or a combo of both. No point using an expensive LED if it's 10 degrees C in your tent. HPS heat is often regarded as a negative, but for me in winter it's generally a positive, something I want.

Recently at the shop I got talked into getting a modern white spectrum 500w LED for my 4x4 with the promise of higher yields and cheaper to run. So I'm keen, but I asked what about temperature, its winter (min 6C max 20C average) so will it give me enough heat ? Sure the shop guy told me, it should be good.

Well it wasn't. It just wouldn't heat up enough. I tried less ventilation time to save the temp, but the plants got air starved and suffered, drooping leaves and yellowing. I put a heater in there, but I cant see the point of all that wattage for heat, defeats the purpose of a low power LED, so may as well use a light.

So I'm back to my HPS (600 and 400W in a 4x4). But I'll use the big LED in the shoulder seasons for sure. I've grown combo LED cob / HPS for years and I like LED, it works, and apparently the new gen white light LED give excellent yield. The extra intensity they're getting these days is impressive.

But HPS heat ain't necessarily a bad thing. And they're so cheap these days with the LED competition. they're both good. So forget the technical analysis nerd stuff, its too complicated for stoners anyway

 

[Emilya Green]

Hi @Fred Fox and welcome to the forum!

I totally agree with you about efficiently using the heat from an HID light to help heat the room during the winter. It dawned on me about 3/4 of the way through winter that instead of running full time 1500w space heaters in the room, I could have been running my big dual HID Raptor hood, using less electricity. I think that I will give this a try when winter comes around again, and thank you for the reminder.

 

[bluter]

a good heater is more efficient and draws less over all in tandem with a proper led rig.

using hid lighting heat to make a winter grow viable is common ground up here in canada. to this day i still don't really grow indoor summer even though i'm all high power led now. fall/winter/spring is the common 2 grows a yr thing as long as i can remember.

hid lighting heat used to be the way to go in poorly or un-insulated attics, basements, and crawl spaces. with some proper insulation, and maybe a bit better ventilation, most of those spaces are now better served with high power led and a small amount of supplemental heating.

i run a dual 750w/1500w heater with 200w of led in a heat challenged space for my seedling/clone/veg room. it has a crude thermostat. i run it on the 750w setting and it is more than adequate. heaters only draw the max watt when they first fire, unless they have no thermostat, which is not efficient.

i prepared the space with simple bubble wrap insulation, which was enough to get it in to range. previous the space ran at about 8c to 13c in winter. not viable for plants. after the simple upgrades it runs a low of 16c - mid winter minus 40 degree blizzard - and a high of 28c - late summer heat wave. i'm usually in the 20c - 22c range.

the space is power challenged enough that i could not run hid.

 

[Phytoplankton]

Never had a problem with the cold, but I do have minor issues with heat (mid-high 80's) on very warm summer days. So for me the LED works well. My garage floor is a slab, so it keeps a pretty constant temperature of around 75 degrees.

 

[Scottxb73]

I find my hps 400w in a 4x4 runs at 3 degrees Celsius above ambient intake temperature, my 320w full spectrum led runs at 4-5 degrees above ambient intake temperature and my CMH with external ballast runs at 6-7 degrees above.. so depending on you cooling system, I run one largest centrifugal fan on the exhaust and a smaller one in the intake so to maintain negative pressure to stop any smell escape.
In winter I wrap my tent in blankets and a tarp, this way it still heats up enough to activate the cooling system and get fresh air about every 15 minutes, even with all lights, it just changes a little between different lights

 

[Scottxb73]

I forgot to mention the temperature zone here so you can gauge it but 4-8 at the coldest and summer 22-35-40, is the problem it's only just possible to grow running at 30c max internal temperature in summer fans flat out all day and night continuesly running, it shuts down automatically when hits 33, it's a real struggle and only just possible, sometimes intake air can be over 30c then it's shut down automatically even with my hps running at 3 degrees Celsius above it's still shutting down at that temperature... Summer is a pest

 

[Scottxb73]

I forgot to mention I run cool tube with fan, this is how I get 3 degrees, I change fans as heat of year change, so winter just run a small output axial and in summer a centrifugal ho p that helps

 

[bluter]

I forgot to mention I run cool tube with fan, this is how I get 3 degrees, I change fans as heat of year change, so winter just run a small output axial and in summer a centrifugal ho p that helps

run 600w of led in flower

 

[Scottxb73]

Well I have just removed all my hps light ballast ducting and fan, everything now I'm going to just go the led, everyone reckons there the go. Power is the main issue as thease idiots just keep jacking up the power like it's going to end
Anyways I can save nothing by adding a 480w but I was going to upgrade to 600w after changing to 4x4 from 3x3..
I've just burnt through 3 $70 ge 400w bulbs on super lume in a year so with all the cost and everything I'm just going balls deep and see what happens can't hurt. I could just replace my 400 with 600 but not sure if even a bigger fan on light will help as there's not much degrees to play with in summer, at least led can just be turned down I guess been rattle my brain last few days this shit..
Looks like the 320 Phlizon I got already pretty good but I may just grab this green fingers 4800 it looks great and is to suit 4x4, it's also got UV.. I like the look of it. The price it right at $400 whereas mars is 500 for equivalent.
My Phlizon 320w looks good on paper and not a lot in it really between the 480w green fingers and this it seems but I assume the 480w had got more sting i guess

 

[bluter]

everything LED depends on the component quality, drivers, chipset, and chipset binning. those are the crucial things to compare between rigs of the same or similar wattage.

you can get 2 different 400w rigs, one will grow rock solid in a 3 x 3, and the other will only manage wispy buds. pay close attention to what you are buying.

 

[Scottxb73]

Ok thanks mate I appreciate, they say they have Samsung leds in this Phlizon I have and in the green fingers 4800 but I assume I went the Mars it's a no brainer would that be the best choose you think, I'm kinda thinking the Mars for 100 buks more may be insurance, not a lot of quality options here and heaps of Chinese shit and it's hard to know what's bull in there description ect like this Phlizon I'm sure is overrated

 

[Scottxb73]

 

[Scottxb73]

This is my favourite, anyone recommend this in 4x4 it's suited for it, I heard if you use something like a 650w led in it will just light burn without co2 ... I don't intend using CO2

 

[bluter]

Ok thanks mate I appreciate, they say they have Samsung leds in this Phlizon I have and in the green fingers 4800 but I assume I went the Mars it's a no brainer would that be the best choose you think, I'm kinda thinking the Mars for 100 buks more may be insurance, not a lot of quality options here and heaps of Chinese shit and it's hard to know what's bull in there description ect like this Phlizon I'm sure is overrated

mars often switches out both the chipset and drivers for cheaper components. not a big fan. at least a third of the mars rigs on the board have shipped with unadvertised changes. make sure you get the rig you pay for.

edit : binning is crucial to the chipset as well. pay attention to that.


most of the board sponsors are a good bet. just hold mars to their word hard if you go that way.

 

[Scottxb73]

Ok thanks mate do you have a preference brand of light they may be available at a hydro shop here

 

[bluter]

Ok thanks mate do you have a preference brand of light they may be available at a hydro shop here

i don't wanna shit on the mars because they are good if you get the advertised rig. so you can go that way if you are diligent.

otherwise folk in the board have had good experiences with both philizon and vipar. make sure to order through the board discount for best value.

edit : don't buy through the shop if you can avoid. the sponsors online here give us preferential customer service and the board will back it.

 

[Scottxb73]

I found this on eBay viparspectra $799 must be pretty good I assume lol expensive.. it has no UV I think, it probably has good or and deep red? I don't know if they offer supplements or UV deep red?

 

[Scottxb73]

Seems the Samsung 301H is a good one yeh

 

[Scottxb73]

So mars offer supplements of IR UV DEEP RED
Is this enough to give this system the edge over everything and get something like a combination CMH/hps result? Are thease extra even required... Or is this how you get a proper end product with led

 

[Scottxb73]

I found this on eBay viparspectra $799 must be pretty good I assume lol expensive

No supplements though no UV IR or deep reed