Hydro vs Organic

[TWINTURBODOGO]

Thanks TorturedSoul, I run dwc now. But I use Hydroguard and Orca. I do water changes about once a month lol. But my ladies don't complain.
But I'm lazy and don't like doin water changes I'd love to accomplish organic hydro, not in dwc of course.

 

[Semorjh]

Thanks to all for all the info you share.

 

[DontEvenAsk]

I've been debating this for awhile since it's my first grow. This post helped alot.

 

[TorturedSoul]

Thanks TorturedSoul, I run dwc now. But I use Hydroguard and Orca. I do water changes about once a month lol. But my ladies don't complain.

That's the important thing . BtW, still get a kick out of your user name. The eyes aren't great (never were, but they're worse now), and at first glance I see "TWINTURBODODO" . I always picture a rather cute and somewhat clumsy flightless bird - that goes 256 MPH. I sure wish I had my old turbo. It only came from the factory with one, but I eventually fixed that little oversight, lol. Anyway...

I'd love to accomplish organic hydro, not in dwc of course.

You could always add a few little hempy type setups. Either no-veg-time rooted clones in 2-liter bottles, or something larger. After all, that's just hand-watered hydroponics. Sort of run-to-waste with a (minuscule, but significant) reservoir included. You could brew up your own stinky stuff, or use a commercial product line.

 

[Beefybuds17]

Do not you miracle grow it is a all purpose plant food and you will taste it in your bud

 

[PlantWrestler]

Organic

 

[Jack420]

Eny one with alot of experience in dwc

 

[Autolabor1]

I have to respectfully disagree that hydroponics will yield higher than organics. There is a difference between growth rate and the yield. Because something grows faster does not mean it yields more in the same space. If you factor in time for veg growth, hydroponics will have the edge in yield. If you have a separate veg area, that timing issue is irrelevant.

Having greater aromatics is a matter of opinion and relative to growing skill and methods. When done correctly, organics (organic nutrients, soilless mixes) produce buds that smell just as strong as those grown hydroponically. I will concede that hydro-grown plants do have a slightly faster growth rate, but to solidly state that they yield more overall, I believe is misleading.

The reason that I switched to organics was because I didn't see enough difference in either growth or anything else to warrant the need for so much monitoring and expensive meters and nutrients. I think that the only provable plus to hydroponics is growth rate.Whereas the cons are chemical aftertaste in the flavour of buds, extreme susceptibility to over/under fertilization, very high initial investment, many things to break and clog, etc.

If grown in a nice airy organic soil mix and watered with good organic amendments, growth enhancers and beneficial fungi (mycorrhizae), you will easily compete with that of a hydroponic system. Your end result will be full flavored, non-chemical tasting buds. They can be arguably, slightly more potent due to the fact that, as of now, science cannot compete with Mother Nature and naturally occurring elements.

Bottom line - unless you are obsessed with fittings, toys and technology (and many are) organics can grow nearly as fast, just as big (if not bigger), better tasting and IMHO more potent buds. And they do this with very little initial investment, and are very forgiving of newbie mistakes.

Author: glass joe

What about which soil to use?

 

[Icemann420]

Hydro all the way

 

[hydro91]

So I was settled on organic but my local hydro shop convinced me to go coco fiber.

As a general consensus it seems that organic buds taste better but what about the high?

I could only assume both would be different even if it's minor.

Because my grow's are personal use only is it worth growing in soil to get nice buds?

I don't mind the extra work at all. I just want some nice tasting clean buds.

No chemical crap.

Suggestions are welcomed.

 

[TorturedSoul]

No chemical crap.

Suggestions are welcomed.

Stick the plant in a vacuum - because everything in the universe is "chemical." Even pure water is... H₂O . As for "crap," lol, seems like the only real difference between the kinds of things that I (usually) like to feed my plants and what the so-called organic crowd (who should all collectively go read the definition of organic chemistry) like to feed theirs is that I don't need to depend on some lifeforms or other to eat the stuff and sh!t it out in a form that the plants are actually able to use. Well, that and the fact that I've never seen a recall notice on E. coli laden lettuce that was grown with "synthetics."

I read a positive-leaning article on "organic" fertilizers recently on the MSU Extension website, and even it had this to offer:

The fundamental process of nutrient absorption by plants is well established. Irrespective of whether nutrients originate from organic or inorganic sources, plants are only capable of absorbing nutrients in certain forms. For example, nitrogen is only absorbed as nitrate (NO3-) ions or ammonium (NH4+) ions and potassium only as K+ ions. Thus, plants do not differentiate between nutrients derived from organic and inorganic fertilizer sources.

Water soluble inorganic fertilizers readily provide nutrients in these forms. However, when organic forms such as manure or compost are applied to the soil, the organic matter has to be first mineralized, or broken down, by microorganisms and its nutrients released to the soil as ions. This enables plant roots to absorb them. Thus, nutrients derived from organic fertilizer sources are not as readily available to plants compared to nutrients from soluble synthetic fertilizers.

It uses the terms "organic" and "inorganic" (which, ironically, is still organic), which is kind of annoying, but I'm at a loss of what the two terms should be replaced with. "Natural" and "synthetic" seem to be poor replacements because, when it comes down to it - and assuming that the "organic" stuff has been properly predigested / broken down first - there isn't any difference to the plant.

What do the "organic" farmers do when they need to add phosphorous (something that everyone knows plants require)? They grab the rock phosphate - which, in terms of the chemical formulation, is practically identical to triple superphosphate. Of course, the former, being "natural," is often contaminated with heavy metals that must somehow be removed by the fertilizer company before the "organic" farmer ever gets it (but it's still a "natural" product, because... err... uhh... someone has said so?). . . .

Use what you want, after doing the research. But don't just blindly choose one (or the other ) based on the whole "organic vs. inorganic" noise. Here's an article that was written by Bernard Vanlauwe (International Institute for Tropical Agriculture in Kenya) that I found interesting:
Time to end the false debate of organic vs. mineral fertilizer

 

[hydro91]

Stick the plant in a vacuum - because everything in the universe is "chemical." Even pure water is... H₂O :rolleyes. As for "crap," lol, seems like the only real difference between the kinds of things that I (usually) like to feed my plants and what the so-called organic crowd (who should all collectively go read the definition of organic chemistry) like to feed theirs is that I don't need to depend on some lifeforms or other to eat the stuff and sh!t it out in a form that the plants are actually able to use. Well, that and the fact that I've never seen a recall notice on E. coli laden lettuce... that was grown with synthetics.

I read a positive-leaning article on "organic" fertilizers recently on the MSU Extension website, and even it had this to offer:


It uses the terms "organic" and "inorganic" (which, ironically, is still organic), which is kind of annoying, but I'm at a loss of what the two terms should be replaced with. "Natural" and "synthetic" seem to be poor replacements because, when it comes down to it - and assuming that the "organic" stuff has been properly predigested / broken down first - there isn't any difference to the plant.

What do the "organic" farmers do when they need to add phosphorous (something that everyone knows plants require)? They grab the rock phosphate - which, in terms of the chemical formulation, is practically identical to triple superphosphate. Of course, the former, being "natural," is often contaminated with heavy metals that must somehow be removed by the fertilizer company before the "organic" farmer ever gets it (but it's still a "natural" product, because... err... uhh... someone has said so?). . . .

I probably should have rephrased that statement, Crap wasn't the correct word to use nor was organic vs hydro. When I say chemicals do the words "more natural and less natural" make more sense?

Quite a few users here were claiming the more natural route produces better tasting bud where as the less natural route if not flushed correctly could make your product taste bitter/chemically.

I'm sure the less natural route wouldn't be good for your lungs or body. Not implying in any way smoking cannabis and combusting the dry plant material is good even if you've chose the more natural route of cultivation.

I do know for a fact hydro tomatoes taste less sweet and when they're grown organically they taste much sweeter. The hydro grown tomatoes I've tried always have little to no flavour/sweetness.

 

[TorturedSoul]

I probably should have rephrased that statement, Crap wasn't the correct word to use nor was organic vs hydro.

Yeah, it only provoked a chuckle. But, then when I thought about it, the laughter grew. Unfortunately, it is not always easy to convey such things properly via this medium. I didn't take offense or anything like that, and was just trying to... share the humor? with that portion of my post.

When I say chemicals do the words "more natural and less natural" make more sense?

I know what you mean when you use those terms. I'm not all that comfortable with them, but as I mentioned, I cannot think of more appropriate ones. I've just never been happy about using a word that doesn't truly fit - which has caused me to become upset with myself countless times, upon realizing that I was guilty of doing exactly that. I can think of two "cannabis-related" screwups on my part that still embarrass me when I think about it (using "phototropic" instead of "photoperiodic" and "triploid" instead of "whorled phyllotaxy").

Quite a few users here were claiming the more natural route produces better tasting bud where as the less natural route if not flushed correctly could make your product taste bitter/chemically.

Yeah... Ever wonder how many of the "flushing" crowd are also part of the crowd that follows a nutrient recipe/schedule instead of giving their plants what those plants actually require (which changes over time during said plants' life cycles, of course)? I'm guessing that if you dumped a wheelbarrow full of cow manure, bone meal, blood meal, et cetera onto a tomato plant a couple times per week right up until end, that plant just might encounter issues, too. IDK. I don't think I'm going to try it in order to find out, though, so it'll have to remain guesswork (for me).

I'm sure the less natural route wouldn't be good for your lungs or body. Not implying in any way smoking cannabis and combusting the dry plant material is good even if you've chose the more natural route of cultivation.

I'm not positive, but I seem to remember something about possible radioactive material getting into tobacco due to applications of some "natural" fertilizer component. Potassium or phosphorous, I think.

Think about this: If you make something in a lab, you can - in theory, at least - make exactly what you want. If you just go dig it up, well, you often have to find a way to remove a bunch of things that you don't want. Although those are both general statements, and like all such things, they're only true sometimes .

I do know for a fact hydro tomatoes taste less sweet and when they're grown organically they taste much sweeter. The hydro grown tomatoes I've tried always have little to no flavour/sweetness.

Just out of curiosity, would those have been hydroponic tomatoes that were grown commercially? Or did these come from plants you grew yourself in a DWC reservoir, ebb & flow table, et cetera? And, if the latter, did you mix your nutrients based on what the plant appeared to need, or follow some kind of formula?

I see no reason why the two cannot taste the same, have the same nutritional composition, et cetera. I do think that the "natural" stuff can make things more... one hesitates to use the term "idiot-proof" (and not solely because the universe seems to be capable of constantly producing bigger and better idiots), but something akin to that, something that might not be the best way to go for entities whose primary motivation is profit. Which shouldn't be a surprise; truck farmers have long been more concerned with such "qualities" as the way the fruit/vegetable looks, how long the product will go without spoiling, etc. Whereas the smaller businesses (and hobby growers, of course) probably look at taste as the number one consideration. I know it used to be that way... When I was a kid, we didn't always run a garden because it meant we'd have something to eat, lol - there were a few years when buying all of the food we consumed at a grocery store wouldn't have been any great hardship. But certain things always seemed to taste better. And some things weren't available at the store at all, because they just wouldn't have kept long enough to be harvested, driven to the processing/packaging/etc. facility, placed onto a different truck, got driven to the grocery store, placed onto the shelves, and get purchased by the consumer.

 

[Gadfly]

I have worked at commercial warehouses where we pumped up cannabis with a full line of BG synthetics, PGRs from Humboldt, and stuff from AN that boss was covinced gave him an edge. We all were an odd bunch coming from different walks of life—rich and poor. Lots of jokes about our nuclear nuggets, how disgusting the grow process was, and how horrible our product was. After all, our group goal was weight and movability.

With all that bitching and joking, I always thought, I’d rather tone down the feed and ditch the pgrs, but it wasn’t bad smoke. Looked great, smelled great, and tasted amazing. Plenty of dispensaries had interest or boss couldn’t get the bills paid.

So time goes on as do the jokes. A common statement from workers may go like “I wouldn’t smoke our shit if you paid me” even though it was freely available to all of us at any time. Blah, blah, blah, organic this and that, blah blah blah around the water cooler. Naturally, we’d all bring samples of our own home grows, have pissing contests, and do coworker type shit.

So putting my fellow workers to the test, I would clandestinely roll up our warehouse product and light it up as if it was mine. Everyone, every single time, was all “this tastes really good, what is it?” With a shit eating grin, I would tell them.

With all that said, at the end of the day all those chemically pumped up plants, when treated correctly, fooled everyone. Everyone, from the tree hugging hippy, Wall Street guy, to former/active street scum, no one could tell the difference and we were all “pros.”

I’ve done mostly organic grows in the past for my personal garden, but my impatience always gets the better of me and I usually ended up adding a booster to speed things along. For me, I like the personal challenge of organic growing, so it’s still something I flirt with. I just popped a seed and intend to go full organic this round. I mean it this time, really. I want to see, start to finish what it’s all about. I want to learn more about fungus because that shit excites me and I’m weird. But I’m under no illusion that organic means better other than perception.

 

[TorturedSoul]

It all came from the same sort of place originally anyway (an exploding star).

 

[Isle of Skye]

No Expert her so take it as you find it....
DWC with bubbles for me, everytime… Bubbleponics as I have heard it called.

I went with this after a failed grow in soil..... It was hard to find a reason till I split open the pot to find root rot had set in big time and stunted the growth of the plants.
Obviously the management of this method was not up to scratch my end and probably down to me not taking enough time to pay attention to what was going on.
Anyway, took a hard look at other methods and "Bubbleponics" seemed to be a fairly straightforward way of moving forward with lower time consumption which for various reasons is important for me and fits the life I have.

I like the fact that you can inspect the whole plant very easily including the root system and means that any problems can hopefully be seen and treated in good time.
I use GHE Nutrients, not organic I know, but do a great job as long as you dont feed your plants at the rates GHE recommend.
17Lt Pots, nutrient solution changed weekly
Top feed for first couple of weeks then just let them go....
Lighting was Viparspectra LED
So far had average of 4 oz per plant without SOG, manifolding or any other "Training over 3 grows of 4 plants each.
Next grow will be a little more managed, training will be given to the plants so hoping they are good listeners!! Also a bigger grow room to play with... We will see how that goes.