I think I've just figured out where the myth of flushing came from!

[No Pain]

As a long time synthetic grower, I knew that flushing was necessary several times in the grow. Salts build up and need to be flushed out,

In my opinion that's the only reason to flush a medium as that is what you are doing . You are cleaning the plant you are cleaning the medium . I feel that people pick to early and maybe its just me all by my lonesome . But here is why . These plants have a life cycle wether they are auto's or photoperiod the only difference between the two mainly is one needs 12/12 to start to flower . Now once that PHASE is started the countdown begins to the end of their lives which is genetically determined as long as we don't kill them first ..haha

Now the way I look at it is when leaf's start to yellow late in the flowering cycle , im not talking about the lower leafs that aren't getting any light . Im talking about the uppers protruding for those nice fat juicy flowers we are all after . When I see that I figure the plant has two weeks or so before its fully ripe . Now what we are dealing with is a "Vine Ripend Fruit" and well it doesn't get any better than that .
Also at this late stage you should cut down on the amount you feed the plant as it is cutting down on what it is uptaking , its the natural order of things .

so far to date and I have only browsed a dozen or so journals ..I have only seen a handful wait to harvest until sometime after color change and my hat goes off to you @Lowrider72 . I will come straight out and tell you that you wont see it in the only one I have here , but there is a whole nother chapter and topic for that discussion : hint it had to do with the lights I used in that journal that I no longer use .

 

[Barney86]

Right well I'm glad that calmed back down lol.
Notice what you are all saying though.
Both sides of the fence say you need to flush occasionally to get rid of excess nutes from the media. Wether that's at the end, a few weeks before or whenever it is. the point my friends is that if you have excess nutes then you're feeding too strong.

I know soil growing is different from coco/hydro and I did point out that I've no idea what happens in soil. I can understand that there may be a necessity to massively over feed soil when using liquid nutes. Never tried it so know nothing on the subject.
Using liquid nutes kinda defeats the whole purpose of growing in soil though to be fair so don't really get why anyone would.

Organic/ no til type growers are the only ones among us really growing weed properly as nature intended and they can't flush cos they only feed water.
Guys with fields full of weed can't flush them because they only get fed water.

For coco and hydro Just don't feed as strong and you'll get the same result without risking starving the buds.
I did say I cut the nutes in half 3 times towards the end and I also feed correctly untill then so there's never any excess nutes in my coco/hydro plants upto that point iether.

And Again, just to reiterate my original point. Flushing should only really make any odds if you're smoking the sugar leaves which is what everyone done for a very long time. So to them flushing would be an absolute necessity because it would take the nasty flavour out the sugar leaves.
And it's just something that stuck and caused a bit of cognitive dissonance.
Like how millions of people will argue till they choke that you can't top an auto.
They've never tried it but some semi internet famous dude said you can't so it must be true.

Ask anyone that's grown in a 20L reservoir. That's about as sensitive as it gets and you can see really accurately exactly this much nutes the plant is absorbing hour to hour. With a bit of tinkering and some simple maths you can keep the ppm of the feed exactly in line with that the plants absorbing.

Here's my current lot on around 500ppm. 4 of them in a 20L res and 2 in 10L coco pots.
There's the framework for a kilo there if i nail this right. They're day 2 of 12/12 and still being fed less than what most people feed a seedling.

50ppm tap water with yummy added chlorine left in. (Stops bad bacteria growing )
30ppm scillica.
50ppm calmag+(Just added to deal with that iron def)
And 370ish ppm is gt grow.
All happy and healthy in their lovely bleachy, piss week concoction that so many growers will swear must be killing them.

Just don't feed as much and you won't get salts building up in the first place.
Is it not better to avoid the need to fix something before it goes wrong?

 

[Emilya Green]

It's all about the salt buildup in soil, not nutes building up in excess. This is why it is recommended in soil not to give nutes with each watering, but to alternate between nutes and plain water. This gives the nutes in the soil a second shot at being uptaken into the plant so nutes do not build up. If you go with minimum feed you will also get minimum salt buildup, but that is the nature of synthetic nutes, the salts do have to build up and be flushed out.

 

[Sonman]

It's all about the salt buildup in soil, not nutes building up in excess. This is why it is recommended in soil not to give nutes with each watering, but to alternate between nutes and plain water. This gives the nutes in the soil a second shot at being uptaken into the plant so nutes do not build up. If you go with minimum feed you will also get minimum salt buildup, but that is the nature of synthetic nutes, the salts do have to build up and be flushed out.

Yeah, I'm new to soilless mediums any just flushed a few days ago to prep for final swell. I'm sure there was some lockout as it definitely picked up in the last 2 days. I think I was setup wrong and with tent heating up I got water drying out faster the nutes were taken up. I also failed in a simple but a very important detail. This was to feed so you get 5-25% run off. And toss the run off! don't let it soak back into the pot as it will cause a buildup. The 5-25% percent extra flushes out buildup a little Each feeding. I lucked out and caught it. My run off was near 3000ppm but washed out quick because it was all at the bottom from being sucked back in. Going forward I'll cut down nutes and get better overflow trays so overflow can be tossed out easier. Flood tray would be nicer but way overpriced.

 

[AKgramma]

Yeah, I'm new to soilless mediums any just flushed a few days ago to prep for final swell. I'm sure there was some lockout as it definitely picked up in the last 2 days. I think I was setup wrong and with tent heating up I got water drying out faster the nutes were taken up. I also failed in a simple but a very important detail. This was to feed so you get 5-25% run off. And toss the run off! don't let it soak back into the pot as it will cause a buildup. The 5-25% percent extra flushes out buildup a little Each feeding. I lucked out and caught it. My run off was near 3000ppm but washed out quick because it was all at the bottom from being sucked back in. Going forward I'll cut down nutes and get better overflow trays so overflow can be tossed out easier. Flood tray would be nicer but way overpriced.

You can pick up a 3 gallon storage bin for around $4 at Walmart. Makes a great overflow tray! And if you let your overflow sit a while, the roots will soak most of it back up again, and the salts will just remain at the bottom of the bin. Gravity and all that. ;-)

 

[Barney86]

It's all about the salt buildup in soil, not nutes building up in excess. This is why it is recommended in soil not to give nutes with each watering, but to alternate between nutes and plain water. This gives the nutes in the soil a second shot at being uptaken into the plant so nutes do not build up. If you go with minimum feed you will also get minimum salt buildup, but that is the nature of synthetic nutes, the salts do have to build up and be flushed out.

Ahhhh so thats why you guys cant just lower the feed and go every time. Makes sense. Everythings ready to be absorbed in coco but in soil it needs time to break down sort of thing?

 

[Emilya Green]

not exactly... its more that the soil will absorb some of the nutrients and things just don't pass through as easily as they do in a water based medium. Soil acts as a buffer whereas water does not.

 

[Barney86]

not exactly... its more that the soil will absorb some of the nutrients and things just don't pass through as easily as they do in a water based medium. Soil acts as a buffer whereas water does not.

I'll get the hang of this funny dirt stuff eventually lol

 

[No Pain]

not exactly... its more that the soil will absorb some of the nutrients and things just don't pass through as easily as they do in a water based medium. Soil acts as a buffer whereas water does not.

its my understanding that soil will hold onto salts simply because of that fact . Which makes it easier to toxify the medium especially if you are an aggressive feeder, not that you have to water consistently with nutrient rich water on a continual basis . I guess you could say Im a hydro guy because Im a feed control freak and I would cook a plant in soil not intentionally or due to carelessness but out of love .

I'll get the hang of this funny dirt stuff eventually lol

You switching to the dirty side of the field Barney ? Us low ppm hydro feeders need to stick together ….don't go !

 

[Sonman]

not exactly... its more that the soil will absorb some of the nutrients and things just don't pass through as easily as they do in a water based medium. Soil acts as a buffer whereas water does not.

That's my exactly how clones get killed when over water drowning or over feed toxicity in real soil. This year alone I think I had to rescue several different sets of friends clones by rinsing them out and moving them to soilless with almost no feed.

 

[Dogwash]

Copied as part of my post from another thread. It explains the journey lol.
No point writing it twice

HOLY FUCK I THINK I'VE JUST SUSSED IT!!!
I THINK I KNOW WHY PEOPLE FLUSH INSTEAD OF CUTTING THE NUTES!!!!!

I was about to go on my usual rant there of why it's bad for them in coco but I've just had an epiphany.

People flush because they think it washes excess nutes out of the buds and gives a smoother smoke.
That's an absolute 100% myth and here's why.

When the leaves start going mental due to the lack of feed. What they're doing is reliquidising the nutes in the leaves and moving them INTO the buds to make sure they have all they need to survive for as long as possible.
That's the plants only thought in life. Do whatever it takes to make those buds last as long as possible for the best chance of reproduction.
They literally eat themselves to feed the buds.

So, now that we've realised that we can't possibly take anything out of the buds, why would people starve them???

Could it be that back in the days you had to flush because you smoked most of the sugar leaves too?
And those will taste fuckin nasty if they're still full of nutes. Wouldn't be able to sell that for top dollar in a month of Sunday's.
They were also mostly soil growers so couldn't possibly have known what hydro growers know today about how nutes work because you just can't measure it in soil.

Ahhhhh...... and even today's growers that swear by it are surely those that don't close trim and leave some of the sugar leaves on! (That bit I just thought of lol)

Wooaaahhh.... that's getting a copy and paste into a thread me thinks

Me personally I leave em on full strength right up to their last week of bloom then give em water for the last week

There's enough leftover nutes in the Coco for them for a week

 

[zeroday]

Stupid question, @Emilya what is TLO?

 

[zeroday]

I think someone already said this.... But Flush means many things to many people..... I'm in soil. I usually flush, as in pour water thorugh the plant until I achieve 50% runoff. I do that about 3 weeks before I think they are ready. Then I go and feed 50% strength until the last week, and then switch to only watering them the last week or 1.5 weeks. I know that some folks consider watering 3-4 times as a flush, I don't. I look at a flush as completely saturating the soil as to allow salts to flow away. Watering to me is adding water until there is barely any runoff. Not sure if that is right or wrong, but it seems to work ok.

I have noticed, absolutely, that if I feed normally right up until the end, my distillate is much harder to filter, and still comes out darker than distillate made with pot that I watered the last week. Random thought...….

 

[Emilya Green]

I like how you think @zeroday. For me the term flushing means to move 3x the container size through the soil to flush out all the salts and debris... and that is a lot more than 50% runoff. Your method has to provide great benefit though and I commend you for doing it at exactly the right time. To me, watering any point past initial runoff on a normal run, is watering too much and/or too fast.

 

[zeroday]

I like how you think @zeroday. For me the term flushing means to move 3x the container size through the soil to flush out all the salts and debris... and that is a lot more than 50% runoff. Your method has to provide great benefit though and I commend you for doing it at exactly the right time. To me, watering any point past initial runoff on a normal run, is watering too much and/or too fast.

Yeah, my 50% runoff is because my back is shot, so I need to get lazy and do it with less water.

LOL, talking about how fast you water... Everytime someone else sees me feed/water, they make fun of me, becuase it takes an hour to feed 4-6 plants. Seems some folks just dump it in and let it run down the sides. I pour in a bit at a time, right in teh center, and wait for it to sink all the way in. As I said in another post, I had one batch that I almost destroyed by pouring the water in way to fast, and the seedlings lifted right out of the soil.

 

[Emilya Green]

Watering for me is a ritual that can take hours. There were many points in my last several grow journals where I documented all day watering sessions, just to make absolutely sure that I completely saturated that soil. My partner says that I am famous for running down the basement steps during commercials on tv, just to put a quart on each plant to let soak in till the next commercial, taking all night to properly water the room. Sometimes I just get lost down there for hours, watering some, playing on the computer some, playing on the ham radio some, and then watering some more. I even put a bed down in the grow room so I can relax in the cool oxygenated air while I spend time with my plants. So, I will not make fun of your long watering ritual... an hour is actually pretty quick!

 

[Nunyabiz]

Stupid question, @Emilya what is TLO?

TLO = True Living Organic
Which can be done two ways, a Super Soil with a hot amendment rich soil in the bottom and I prefer a Clackamas Coots soil recipe on top 2/3rds.
Inoculate with mycorrhazae.

Or IMO at least, really the best method and purest True Organic method is a Living Organic Soil No-till grow where you use the Clackamas Coots soil recipe in a large like 25 gallon fabric pot along with a couple hundred worms and Gro-kashi top dress and a cover crop and inoculate with mycorrhazae.

I usually water with a few Sprouted Seed Teas for the enzymes and natural Plant Growth Regulators and hormones.

 

[Emilya Green]

The difference that Nunyabiz is trying to explain is that he grows in a method called LOS, Living Organic Soil, where the soil is actually kept in a living state, much like the forest floor, where microbes are abundant as well as all the minerals and anything else that the plants could possibly need. He uses large containers so that this living ecosystem can sustain itself and remain alive throughout the grow and beyond.
I use a similar method that allows for the use of smaller containers and less trouble maintaining a living soil... I use a good mineralized supersoil that may or may not be actually living, and then I am constantly adding life to it with microbe rich compost teas and I don't really concern myself as to how alive my soil actually is or if it can sustain that life throughout the grow. It really is the same method that Nunyabiz is using, just without all the extra hassle and with smaller containers. This method is referred to as TLO, True Living Organic... but aside from these differences we actually are using much the same methods.

 

[bobrown14]

See bolded: As Autumn approaches in nature outside, does the food in the ground suddenly deplete right on time?

Right after all that rain - then no more nutrients in the soil so everything dies.

Wait I'm just kidding. lol

 

[bobrown14]

I grow in hempy and after a couple weeks nutes or salts seem to build up in the perlite so I “flush” it out with plain water and go then back to normal feedings. Maybe “flush” is the wrong word, but if I don’t do every couple weeks my plants suffer.

You're in a soil-less medium, you know it works there and why you do it.

In soil there's chemistry at work CEC (cation exchange capacity). Nutrients are chemically bonded to soil particles, its not possible to change that chemical bond in soil.

There's a very low CEC in a soil-less medium and why you can rinse out your medium. There's no chemical bonding (or very little) that will hold nutrients in place in soil-less mediums.

Think of it like this. If your soil is very sandy, there's very little SOM (soil organic matter) that nutrients are able to bond to, so those nutrients can be washed out in a sandy soil.