Indy's 1st DWC: White Widow Photoperiod

[Stltoed]

No sweat man. Move to California so we can hang out!

 

[IndyRacerNick]

So I am at work, and I looked up my pump I got that came with the kit..yeah kit stock usually is bottom line. It is a weak 44gph fpr a 5 gallon res (holding 4 gallons of water). That is probably why my roots are not large and barely growing. I would assume any air stone can handle 100gph or more and it is all dependent on the air pump?

 

[Stltoed]

So I am at work, and I looked up my pump I got that came with the kit..yeah kit stock usually is bottom line. It is a weak 44gph fpr a 5 gallon res (holding 4 gallons of water). That is probably why my roots are not large and barely growing. I would assume any air stone can handle 100gph or more and it is all dependent on the air pump?

My moto is bigger is better when it comes to air. At a certain point, when it completely blows all the water in your system on the floor you may have too much... I haven't seen that yet.

Anyway in all seriousness, i have 50 gallons and use a linear pump that puts out 90 liters a minute ( if i remember correctly) I have 2 12 inch diffuser rings to make the baby bubbles. If you need to work on keeping the sound down linear is really nice, but a bit spendy. If sound isnt s factor an Eco plus 1,2,3,etc. would sort you out nicely. A diffuser is usually more efficient than stones, but usually require larger in lines. I used two 3s for quite a while. Remember water can only absorb so much air. Too much is sometimes just too much.

Now. Is it your pump? If your pump was the issue I would think your plants would either be showing stress or dead. Yours are showing neither. Some strains/seeds are just slow. Some will never get very big while some grow so fast the damn things will follow you out of the room. Considering the size of the system, It may not be your pump. But it wouldn't hurt to go bigger. But don't go nuts. Looking at what you got, i would say youre doing pretty good.

Watch for the smell of a dead rat. If you have that look into peroxide immediately Run an innoculent in your water such as Hydroguard, or other. Low air causes stagnation issues which equals death if not taken care of. That's another post

 

[IndyRacerNick]

My moto is bigger is better when it comes to air. At a certain point, when it completely blows all the water in your system on the floor you may have too much... I haven't seen that yet.

Anyway in all seriousness, i have 50 gallons and use a linear pump that puts out 90 liters a minute ( if i remember correctly) I have 2 12 inch diffuser rings to make the baby bubbles. If you need to work on keeping the sound down linear is really nice, but a bit spendy. If sound isnt s factor an Eco plus 1,2,3,etc. would sort you out nicely. A diffuser is usually more efficient than stones, but usually require larger in lines. I used two 3s for quite a while. Remember water can only absorb so much air. Too much is sometimes just too much.

Now. Is it your pump? If your pump was the issue I would think your plants would either be showing stress or dead. Yours are showing neither. Some strains/seeds are just slow. Some will never get very big while some grow so fast the damn things will follow you out of the room. Considering the size of the system, It may not be your pump. But it wouldn't hurt to go bigger. But don't go nuts. Looking at what you got, i would say youre doing pretty good.

Watch for the smell of a dead rat. If you have that look into peroxide immediately Run an innoculent in your water such as Hydroguard, or other. Low air causes stagnation issues which equals death if not taken care of. That's another post

Starting to consider upgrading my pump for my res. I think the pump is ok, not great. There are bubbles made on the surface but I would love to see more misting of small micro bubbles than large hurricane like movement inside. My pump is not powerful to go crazy. The air stone I have is not a flat one, its round like a cylinder. May look into changing that up to a bigger one to cover more surface area, but that will probably result in less bubbles.

The roots don't look bad, they are just not as large as I was thinking for this stage of growth. I was thinking about double the height of the plant. Again, 1st time on hydro so perhaps I am right on schedule.

Here is a photo taken tonight of the root system. We are almost on week 6 of veg (Monday)



It has been almost a week now since we have topped her. We did a FIM on her about 2 weeks ago and the results look good. Here are the results of the FIM and Topping that have taken place


When I topped her about a week ago, I also trimmed up the bigger fan leaves to allow more light at the growing sites. Here is a photo of the new growth 1 week later (Taken today)

Finally I also trimmed her up again. I remove the huge fan leaves on top, removed some very small sites on the lower end of the main stock, and some leaves in the middle to open her up more


Despite roots being small to me, she is healthy. I was thinking of flipping her to flower next week. The roots do have some brown from nutrients. You can see the whiteness in there, but when I foliar feed with Foliar Essence the runoff hits the roots. No bad smell.

The water in the res may look like soap but this is because of the Enzyme I add to the res. I hear roots love extra air and that good foam like this really helps, again..not sure on the truth but this plant seems to agree.

Temp Lo: 20C
Temp Hi: 27C

RH Lo: 45%
RH Hi: 57%

PPM: 610
PH: 5.84

Res Temp: 22.5C

Got me some nice Gorilla Glue #4 here I am gonna smoke, she looks tasty!

 

[EastCoastGhost]

Starting to consider upgrading my pump for my res. I think the pump is ok, not great. There are bubbles made on the surface but I would love to see more misting of small micro bubbles than large hurricane like movement inside. My pump is not powerful to go crazy. The air stone I have is not a flat one, its round like a cylinder. May look into changing that up to a bigger one to cover more surface area, but that will probably result in less bubbles.

The roots don't look bad, they are just not as large as I was thinking for this stage of growth. I was thinking about double the height of the plant. Again, 1st time on hydro so perhaps I am right on schedule.

Here is a photo taken tonight of the root system. We are almost on week 6 of veg (Monday)

It has been almost a week now since we have topped her. We did a FIM on her about 2 weeks ago and the results look good. Here are the results of the FIM and Topping that have taken place

When I topped her about a week ago, I also trimmed up the bigger fan leaves to allow more light at the growing sites. Here is a photo of the new growth 1 week later (Taken today)

Finally I also trimmed her up again. I remove the huge fan leaves on top, removed some very small sites on the lower end of the main stock, and some leaves in the middle to open her up more

Despite roots being small to me, she is healthy. I was thinking of flipping her to flower next week. The roots do have some brown from nutrients. You can see the whiteness in there, but when I foliar feed with Foliar Essence the runoff hits the roots. No bad smell.

The water in the res may look like soap but this is because of the Enzyme I add to the res. I hear roots love extra air and that good foam like this really helps, again..not sure on the truth but this plant seems to agree.

Temp Lo: 20C
Temp Hi: 27C

RH Lo: 45%
RH Hi: 57%

PPM: 610
PH: 8.4

Res Temp: 22.5C

Got me some nice Gorilla Glue #4 here I am gonna smoke, she looks tasty!

 

[Stltoed]

Coming along nicely, you say your pH is 8.4, is that a misprint? ..️

An excellent question. If that isn't a misprint you NEED to take care of that.

As for the roots. Try a root nute. House and Garden Gold is the answer for soil. Won't do you any good in hydro. Unless mutant jellyfish. There is a root Accelerator for hydro but it's super crazy expensive. What I use is Rapid Start from Gen Hydro. While it isn't cheap its substantially better than H and G in price. Picture shows an Alcopulco Gold plant in a rapid rooter. I put it in soil 2 days ago... that's typical of Rapid Start

 

[IndyRacerNick]

Coming along nicely, you say your pH is 8.4, is that a misprint? ..️

Yeah total misprint haha. Gorilla Glue got me all out of sorts

PH 5.84

 

[IndyRacerNick]

An excellent question. If that isn't a misprint you NEED to take care of that.

As for the roots. Try a root nute. House and Garden Gold is the answer for soil. Won't do you any good in hydro. Unless mutant jellyfish. There is a root Accelerator for hydro but it's super crazy expensive. What I use is Rapid Start from Gen Hydro. While it isn't cheap its substantially better than H and G in price. Picture shows an Alcopulco Gold plant in a rapid rooter. I put it in soil 2 days ago... that's typical of Rapid Start

Maybe I will look at a root booster when I do the next run. I'm sure the roots will catch up. Not worried a whole bunch about it. She is growing and been through fim and topping and defoliation the past 3 weeks.

Gonna put her into flower next week and see what we get.

 

[Stltoed]

Maybe I will look at a root booster when I do the next run. I'm sure the roots will catch up. Not worried a whole bunch about it. She is growing and been through fim and topping and defoliation the past 3 weeks.

Gonna put her into flower next week and see what we get.

They're doing pretty good. You can use Rapid Start throughout the grow. It's not just for roots. Love that stuff

 

[IndyRacerNick]

Ok so today I am going to discuss water temps. Seems I just found out after some research that I have the temps wrong all along. Surprised it wasn't spoken of on here, but if you are like me you missed that one pretty easily!

Each day I do check the ppm/ph of my res and I do notice the temps in there are warm. As soon as I lift the top I can almost feel some heat coming out. The res right now was 23.9 when I checked about a hour ago. Sadly, I never had a chance to tend to her today because of my holiday work schedule and I am already back at work for another 12 hours.

When I check I still notice the brownish on the roots. I was honestly thinking this was from the nutrients and from the foliar feeding as it drips onto the pebbles and works its way into the res. But today things look different which made me hit the interwebs. I have had brownish on the roots but it never looked like it was a problem, no growth, no smell, and still to this day even though I see some slime balls on top, there is no foul smell or odor coming from the res.

I changed the res water a day or two ago and when I added the water the temps were reading about 15C. I honestly thought this was too low. I thought the room temp water was ideal and I was wrong. I totally missed this and when I posted my temps nobody has pointed it out until you just did.

I ended up bringing the temps up to about 23C in the res

Today I checked the roots and I see what looks like brown slime balls on the bottom of the basket. Again, I never had time to get a great photo outside the LED room, but I will so the LED color is gone. For now here is the photo I have

This makes me believe that this has to do with the temp of the res. Now I have a slime building up. I added a good dose on enzymes before I left to see if it can help kill the slime that has started.

One thing I am going to do is take a piece of cardboard or other material and cut out the shape of my res and place it on top to make a cover to block off any light that may be getting through the clay stones to the bottom of the res. Just for extra added security for any possible light leaks inside the res. She is sealed off tight outside of that.

At this point where it is so early, should I consider using H2O2 to attempt to stop this before it gets any worse, and get all that brown off the roots and do a new mix of nutes?

As for the temps, I need to figure out a way to bring it down. The air pump is inside the grow room tent which has a temp of about 23C which is good for the plant above the roots, but as I learned today, not so good for the growth in the res.

The room my tent is in has a temp of about 15C so I may take the pump out of the tent and place it in the cooler room on the concrete. Another thing I wasn't thinking about was how the air temp enters the res, its through the pump as it takes in air. If there is warm air being taken by the pump then that warm air goes in the res. That changes tomorrow! If I have to use frozen water bottles then so be it. Can't afford to build or buy anything right now to get this problem solved.

What is the lowest water temp I can have in the res?

That's all I got for now

Smoke em if ya got em!

 

[Scrogdawg]

Good temps range from 18⁰C to 21⁰C.

Sounds to me like your enzymes are shit, or your not applying correctly, they should handle a short burst of 23.9 without a problem and the previous 22.5 should never be a problem. If you can, get some Z7 and use it, problem solved. And lay off the foliar spray all together.

Cover your net pots right to the stem of the plant. No light gets in, none.

 

[IndyRacerNick]

Good temps range from 18⁰C to 21⁰C.

Sounds to me like your enzymes are shit, or your not applying correctly, they should handle a short burst of 23.9 without a problem and the previous 22.5 should never be a problem. If you can, get some Z7 and use it, problem solved. And lay off the foliar spray all together.

Cover your net pots right to the stem of the plant. No light gets in, none.

Thanks scrog

Yeah that's the plan I am going with.. Circular cover with a slit to get the stem covered.

As for the enzyme I apply as directed. 1 cap per 40 liters. Maybe it is shit..but maybe the temps getting near to 25C may have some influence.

I will check that Z7 stuff out. Foliar Feeding won't be happening going further.

I actually flipped the light to 12/12 yesterday and installed the new light today, the first day I see the small slime balls attached to the bottom of the basket. Need to fix this asap before it rots the root.

Will keep y'all updated.

Thanks for swinging by and Merry Christmas

 

[IndyRacerNick]

Good temps range from 18⁰C to 21⁰C.

Sounds to me like your enzymes are shit, or your not applying correctly, they should handle a short burst of 23.9 without a problem and the previous 22.5 should never be a problem. If you can, get some Z7 and use it, problem solved. And lay off the foliar spray all together.

Cover your net pots right to the stem of the plant. No light gets in, none.

Whats your take on adding some Hydrogen peroxide to the mix to rid of the brown roots and try to solve this issue?

All I have is Hydrogen Peroxide 3% I would have to order H2O2 which will take a week to get here and damage may spread by then

Would I add the peroxide in a different res and let her soak a bit or just add it to the current mix I have?

Looking for input on this one if you got it

 

[Stltoed]

Whats your take on adding some Hydrogen peroxide to the mix to rid of the brown roots and try to solve this issue?

All I have is Hydrogen Peroxide 3% I would have to order H2O2 which will take a week to get here and damage may spread by then

Would I add the peroxide in a different res and let her soak a bit or just add it to the current mix I have?

Looking for input on this one if you got it

I have no idea what 23C is. You're plants could be on fire and I don't know what that would be in C
Haha sorry.

Peroxide is magic. 3% is perfect. 30% is scary. Especially if you haven't used it. I've done a quarter cup (OF 3%) to 5 gallons. It doesn't matter here I guess but it will kill everything in your tub, good, bad and ugly. So any beneficial or not. Buy be sure you have a good antibacterial ready after the peroxide. If you chose to use Hydro guard you will want to make sure all of the peroxide is out of the system.

Put the peroxide in the system to disinfect the whole thing

 

[Stltoed]

I have no idea what 23C is. You're plants could be on fire and I don't know what that would be in C
Haha sorry.

Peroxide is magic. 3% is perfect. 30% is scary. Especially if you haven't used it. I've done a quarter cup (OF 3%) to 5 gallons. It doesn't matter here I guess but it will kill everything in your tub, good, bad and ugly. So any beneficial or not. Buy be sure you have a good antibacterial ready after the peroxide. If you chose to use Hydro guard you will want to make sure all of the peroxide is out of the system.

Put the peroxide in the system to disinfect the whole thing

Oh... and Scropdawg is totally on point with the rest of it.

 

[IndyRacerNick]

I have no idea what 23C is. You're plants could be on fire and I don't know what that would be in C
Haha sorry.

Peroxide is magic. 3% is perfect. 30% is scary. Especially if you haven't used it. I've done a quarter cup (OF 3%) to 5 gallons. It doesn't matter here I guess but it will kill everything in your tub, good, bad and ugly. So any beneficial or not. Buy be sure you have a good antibacterial ready after the peroxide. If you chose to use Hydro guard you will want to make sure all of the peroxide is out of the system.

Put the peroxide in the system to disinfect the whole thing

Yeah the 3% is all I got and thats what I will use.

23C is 73.4F and it has reached up to 25C which is 77F. When I talk temps I am talking the actual res water temp.

There are benificial microbes in my nutes and it says not to use H2O2 so I am wondering if I should just use plain water with no nutes and add the H2O2 for a couple days, or let the plant soak in the H2O2 for a few hours then move to nutes.

As for antibacterial I do have some enzymes if that count. I dont think it worked correctly due to the high temps it has been hitting in the res, that and foliar feeding. Foliar feeding is now stopped.

I dont have Hydroguard and I need to resolve this issue asap as you can see from the photo

 

[Stltoed]

Yeah the 3% is all I got and thats what I will use.

23C is 73.4F and it has reached up to 25C which is 77F. When I talk temps I am talking the actual res water temp.

There are benificial microbes in my nutes and it says not to use H2O2 so I am wondering if I should just use plain water with no nutes and add the H2O2 for a couple days, or let the plant soak in the H2O2 for a few hours then move to nutes.

As for antibacterial I do have some enzymes if that count. I dont think it worked correctly due to the high temps it has been hitting in the res, that and foliar feeding. Foliar feeding is now stopped.

I dont have Hydroguard and I need to resolve this issue asap as you can see from the photo

Your system has been taken over. Your nutes are being held hostage by a ultra viral faction of carpet mold. You need to move fast and decisively. Nape the whole area captain. How's THAT for American.

Seriously, write it all off. Peroxide it, honestly don't go over 3% right now. And it's best to use a newer bottle. Run your system for half a day or so, watching them closely. Flush, renute, inoculate, and you're off the the races. When you add the peroxide watch to see if your plants perk up. If they do theres a very good chance they got a bump in Oxygen. I attribute this to not enough oxygen in the water from the air pumps. This is just my thought.

 

[IndyRacerNick]

Your system has been taken over. Your nutes are being held hostage by a ultra viral faction of carpet mold. You need to move fast and decisively. Nape the whole area captain. How's THAT for American.

Seriously, write it all off. Peroxide it, honestly don't go over 3% right now. And it's best to use a newer bottle. Run your system for half a day or so, watching them closely. Flush, renute, inoculate, and you're off the the races. When you add the peroxide watch to see if your plants perk up. If they do theres a very good chance they got a bump in Oxygen. I attribute this to not enough oxygen in the water from the air pumps. This is just my thought.

That was a pretty badass American way of putting it out there hahaha awesome!!

It is funny you say that about not enough oxygen. Remember the conversation last week when I was asking questions regarding another air pump haha I had a feeling I needed more. I will add the H2O2 until I am able to get another pump.

Will update with the results in a few days

 

[Stltoed]

That was a pretty badass American way of putting it out there hahaha awesome!!

It is funny you say that about not enough oxygen. Remember the conversation last week when I was asking questions regarding another air pump haha I had a feeling I needed more. I will add the H2O2 until I am able to get another pump.

Will update with the results in a few days

I remember.

Your running a *possible trifecta of red flags for Deep Water. Possible low O2 in the water. Obvious nutrient heat issues, I'm not sure of the water inoculant, but it's gonna have a hard time in these conditions.

This will be a great lesson in peroxide. Do yourself a favor and look around online to see how others use it and what it can do. You will need it again in this, and other capacities.

Cheers

 

[IndyRacerNick]

Hey everyone!

Have not had any time to get my journal updated between Christmas and Christmas work hours. 100 hours worked in 12 days has me set behind.

So as we know it looks like I had a rot starting, there was slime on the roots and the res was hitting up to 25C

I have added H2O2 to the res which never seemed to help any. Was thinking of just dipping the roots in the H2O2 for a while to see if it helps...never did that yet...not sure if I should...

I took the plant to the tub and I ran water over the roots directly, using my hands that were well sterilized I began to very gently remove the slime. It seems most of the slime is removed from the plants roots, its something I will do again in a few days.

Now...I learned something last night. Maybe it is just luck but here is what happened....

I have been feeding my plants a nutrient solution from Green Planet. You can see it in the video on the 1st post. There was a lot going into the res. I know this caused the browning of my roots, and its organic and its recommended to not use H2O2 with this nutrient solution. I have been monitoring my res temps daily and they have been between 23.5 to 25C. So I started added frozen bottles of water twice a day. This brings the temps down to 21.5 which I am more than happy with.

When it was time to change my res (2 days ago) I decided to NOT use the nutrient solution from Green Planet. I cleaned the res, did the ph thing and I decided this time to go with my 3 part Advanced Nutrients (Micro, Grow, Bloom). As soon as I put the solution in the res I noticed the res mas much clearer and I could actually see the bottom. PH was dialed in at 5.85-5.90 without any ph up/down (its the Perfect PH Technology from AN)

Now for the mind blowing results...the temps of the rest went down and has stayed at 21.5C. It appears that the nutrient solution I was using was causing my res to heat up. I had no idea that this was even possible, but I guess with everything in the res, the reaction causes heat. So I have not added any more of the Green Planet nutes and I went straight with AN. So far, my temps are low and have not spiked any. I have bottles ready just in case.

Have any of you ever experienced this? I had no idea that nutrients can cause temp changes in the res. With AN I am seeing more responsive plants, my roots are still a work in progress but the temps are down and there is no slime as of now. Only slime that may be in the res could be within the growing pebbles. May run some water through her to see if I can push any out without actually removing the pebbles and causing other issues. The tap root touches the bottom of the pot now I am hoping for some root development.

I probably wont see much root development as I switched to flower last week. I am guessing roots don't grow much when in flower...could be wrong but time will tell

Would love your feedback on this and if you ever experienced nutes causing your res to heat up.

Here are a few photos of the grow so far

Even though we had some root issues, the plant does seem pretty healthy and no signs of issues on top.

I did flip the switch to 12/12 on December 25th Christmas Day 10 Days ago - Still no white pistils..but they can appear quickly so not worried yet.

This plant is very short and bushy. I did FIM and Topping on her so when stretch kicks in I look forward to seeing what I have to work with