My miracle grow experiment

the only reason i used peters is because i found it at the dollar store and i had it for my house plants and they love the stuff, although they seem dependent on it. my house plants are like a jungle though. the front room is almost full of them. plants & a piano, thats it. i'm gonna just try some piss in my well water and see what happens. its my first grow and i figure its about learning and experimenting. its so relaxing just to sit with them and listen to some music.
 
FunkTASTIC said:
I'm growing using miracle grow...
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Cool. How is your grow doing? Go slow with MG. Like all chemical (processed) nutrients it can burn your plants real easily. My best advise to you is for you to get a PPM meter to measure the amount of nutrient you are giving your babies. As you have read through this thread...MG isn't considered the best nutrient. I myself don't think it's "the best" nutrient you could use. I use Pure Blend Pro myself. It's more geared towards MJ than these cheaper nutrients are. These cheaper ones are geared more towards house plants IMO. Maybe some gardens as well. But not really MJ.
 
Urdedpal said:
Piss in your water?
Duuude! OK.
LOL
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Can I use My Urine as a Fertilizer?

Sure you can. In fact Sweden has tested a full scale urine 'recycling' program. Among their findings they have discovered that urine is a complete fertilizer for farm use, lowers the environmental impact of wastewater, improves recirculation of the 3 main nutrients, and that the hygienic risks are negligible if handled properly. Nature has been making use of urine for centuries before humans had even mastered the art of agriculture. Animal wastes contain nutrients that plants needs, and in return they provide us with nutrients we need. It is a circle that has been broken only in recent years, but before you go using your pots as a urinal you will need to be aware of how to use your urine. DO NOT PEE DIRECTLY ON OR AROUND YOUR PLANTS. You will burn them. The following will detail everything that you need to know to be successful.

Use in Soil
Pure concentrated urine will burn your plants; it must first be diluted with water. Typically a ratio of 1 part urine to 10 parts water is effective. Some have gotten away with a slightly higher ratio on unusually hungry girls. It is recommended that you do not exceed 1:10, even though a nutrient burn with urine is rare, the smell can be unpleasant, and salts will build quickly, at higher concentrations. For younger plants start with a ratio of 1:20-1:30 and work your way up. As always do not fertilize germinating seedlings. Wait until the cotyledons (little round leaves) have fallen off before beginning any fertilizer regiment. Also it is not needed every water, every other or every third is sufficient. Let your plant do the talking, if she is a nice dark green then lay off a little, use a weaker solution and lower frequency, if she is getting on the yellow side then step up the strength a bit. Note: Urine can have a high salt content, depending upon your diet. I recommend that when you water with plain water, you allow some run off (approximately 1/8-1/4 volume of your pot) and toss it, this should rid your soil of excess salts.

Use in Hydro
About 8 ounces (1cup) for every 3 gall or reservoir water has been effective (thanks foto) but you should adjust according to your conditions, plant needs, and smell issues. The nitrogen in urine (ammonia and urea) must first be consumed by bacteria as food. The bacteria then store the nitrogen in the bacterial protoplasm. As the Bacteria die, they liberate the stored nitrogen as nitrate, sort of like a time release capsule, to be taken up by the plants. In soil this is no problem but in hydro setups there may not be enough bacteria culture to breakdown the urea and ammonia. Therefore it will be a good idea to drip your Res water through a porous material that can support a bacteria culture such as lava rocks, ceramic bio filter material, foam, sponge. It is up to you; it does not need to be fancy just able to support beneficial bacteria. This step may not be required if your root mass is large enough or if you have a trickle system through a porous medium like rockwool or coco. To get a good start on your bacteria culture you can get some bio-filter booster liquid from any aquarium shop. This liquid contains "good" bacteria that will help you develop a thriving population use as directed (usually a few drops per gal.)

Fermented or Fresh (By Klompen)
Traditionally, urine was kept in a garden in a large barrel. Sweet smellnig flowers were typically planted around this barrel to mask any odors. This fermentation does have some great benefits, such as breaking down the urea into more useable amoniates. Also, it has the benefit of allowing the salts to settle out of it to a large degree. This settling of the salt does take some micronutes out as some of them bind to the salt, but it's a minimal loss. The odor profile of the urine is changed quite a bit by the fermenting process as well. It is not a better smell, but instead a "richer" smell.

There are downsides. Chief downside is the fact that you must leave a container of urine sitting around. Guests don't always like finding out what you've got sitting in that mysterious bottle. As mentioned above, a small amount of micronutes are lost from settling. You will also lose a bit of the urine at the bottom of the bottle because it has the settled substances in higher amounts. One other downside is that you will need to have two containers ideally, since you will not want to be putting fresh urine into a bottle full of fermented urine.

Nutrient Levels (approximation, will vary according to diet)
Alanine, total ..... 38 mg/day
Arginine, total ..... 32 mg/day
Ascorbic acid ..... 30 mg/day
Allantoin ..... 12 mg/day
Amino acids, total ..... 2.1 g/day
Bicarbonate ..... 140 mg/day
Biotin ..... 35 mg/day
Calcium ..... 23 mg/day
Creatinine ..... 1.4 mg/day
Cystine ..... 120 mg/day
Dopamine ..... 0.40 mg/day
Epinephrine ..... 0.01 mg/day
Folic acid ..... 4 mg/day
Glucose ..... 100 mg/day
Glutamic acid ..... 308 mg/day
Glycine ..... 455 mg/day
Inositol ..... 14 mg/day
Iodine ..... 0.25 mg/day
Iron ..... 0.5 mg/day
Lysine, total ..... 56 mg/day
Magnesium ..... 100 mg/day
Manganese ..... 0.5 mg/day
Methionine, total ..... 10 mg/day
Nitrogen, total ..... 15 g/day
Ornithine ..... 10 mg/day
Pantothenic acid ..... 3 mg/day
Phenylalanine ..... 21 mg/day
Phosphorus, organic ..... 9 mg/day
Potassium ..... 2.5 mg/day
Proteins, total ..... 5 mg/day
Riboflavin ..... 0.9 mg/day
Tryptophan, total ..... 28 mg/day
Tyrosine, total ..... 50 mg/day
Urea ..... 24.5 mg/day
Vitamin B6 ..... 100 mg/day
Vitamin B12 ..... 0.03 mg/day
Zinc ..... 1.4 mg/day

approx 2 liters is excreted /day.

Human urine is a great source of auxin, in fact one of the most potent auxins can be found in human urine; indol-3-acetic acid or IAA. Among many things auxin is known to stimulate flower growth, promote ethylene production, and stimulate root growth.

I have gone though an entire grow using urine without any deficiencies, but many feel that during flowering your phosphorus levels are too low. If you desire, a bloom fertilizer may be used in tandem during the flowering phase.
A tea made with the Russian comphry plant (3.6-1-10.6) is an excellent organic bloom fertilizer for those of us who do not wish to use chemicals at any step. Also a tea of bone meal, or bone meal in your soil mix is probably the best way to add Phosphorus.

In addition I would, and have, cut back on the amout of urine used in the flower period (both frequency and consentration). There is some evidence that Nitrogen in excess will inhibit flower growth, and increase your 12/12 time.

Your body can only absorb about 10-15% of a multivitamin/mineral pill the rest is flushed out with your urine. Taking a multivitamin/mineral about 3 hours before your urine collection can give you many vital micro nutrients.

A balanced and healthy diet means balanced and healthy urine. Keep fit and eat well and you should have nutrient rich urine and happy plants.

PH
The PH value for human urine can range anywhere from 5 and 8.5 but most often is found between 5.5 and 7.5 in healthy individuals with a balanced diet. A value of 6 is average. High protein diets can lower PH (more acidic) and Vegetarian diets raise PH values (more alkaline). Urinary infection will increase PH value. Test your PH and lower it (coffee, lemon juice, or vinegar are great organic PH downs) if any higher that 6, especially if in a hydro system, or increase your protein consumption. If the soil you are using is fairly acidic, like peat moss you will want to make sure you are not dropping it too low with acidic urine; dolomite lime can help you buffer this up, or increase your vegetable intake and lower your protein.

Pro's

It Works
Tried and true. In my (and a few others) opinion it works as good as commercial fertilizers when used properly. A side by side clone to clone test has not yet been done (to my knowledge), but there is no question that urine produces healthy, frosty, dank nugs, as good as anything out there.

Cheap
You can't beat free can you? Not likely. Weather you are growing for pleasure or profit saving money is something that I think we all desire. If you have no problem with spending the money, then go right ahead. Call it ghetto if you want, I call it natures gift, and I intend to make the best of it.

Available
It's like fertilizer on tap. No hasty visits to the hydro/garden shop. No "I'll have to do without for a while". It's always there when you need it.

Environmentally friendly
Many of us would like to preserve the earth. Well organic fertilizers are the way to go if this is part of your ethos. Chemical fertilizers are produced from petroleum products, natural gas, and coal. Minerals are made more soluble with acids. After the compounds are used by the plant the contaminants left over in the soil can become poisonous and over time can leave the land depleted and 'dead'. Using organic fertilizers closes a cycle of life that has existed for millennia. We feed the plants and they feed us, much like the oxygen and carbon dioxide cycle.

Compost
Urine in your compost pile is probably the best way to get extra Nitrogen into your mix.

Con's

Eww factor
If you are disgusted by this then maybe you should stick to chemical fertilizers. No matter how many times I tell people that urine is sterile in the bladder, and is only dangerous if compromised by fecease or other pathogen carrying substances, some just cannot get over it. People also believe that the urine will somehow end up being 'smoked' yet they have no qualms about 'smoking' the chemicals or other organic ferts. All fertilizers are broken down by the plant, used in chemical reactions and changed. There is no way that you will be 'smoking' your fertalizers, whatever you use, as long as you aren't foliar spraying in flower, but then you wouldn't do that with fish emulsion or chemicals now would you?

Salt content
Human urine will contain various salts. Depending on diet your urine can contain up a max of 2.2% salt, this is because the human kidney cannot concentrate salts to greater than 2.2%. On average salt content will be about 30g/L Total dissolved solids constitute about 5% of urine volume. As previously stated it will be to your benefit to allow some run off when watering and toss it, this will rid your soil of excess salts.

Infections and parasites
Hygienic risks are negligible, unless the urine comes in contact with pathogens after leaving the body. The urine of a healthy person is sterile in the bladder. If you have a urinary tract, or kidney infection your urine will contain bacteria that can infect others. It is quite impossible for the infection to be passed through the plant, bud or smoke. If you are sick the majority of pathogens that can transmit disease will die within 24 hours of leaving the body. Infections will increase both your salt content and PH values, and can contain bacteria that consume nitrates.

Smell
Urine does have a distinctive unpleasant odor. If you mix it properly (1:10-20) then there should be no problems. I have only ever had a smell issue when I mixed it entirely too strong. If you have ever used fish emulsion, blood meal, or guano/manure you should be used to offensive odors and should not have a problem using urine.

Imprecise
Urine fertilizing is not an exact science. Exact nutrient levels and concentrations cannot be accurately established without the proper equipment. Notwithstanding some trial and error is necessary in every fertilizer regiment. Certain strains can have differing tolerances, different growing conditions and methods vary in their ability to deliver nutrients reliably.

:cheesygrinsmiley:
 
RooRman said:
If you were only using Fox Farms Grow Big from start to finish then yes, maybe the MG plants did grow taller. You did not switch to one of the many other choices for organic flowering nutrients including other Fox Farms products like Big Bloom or Tiger Bloom.

While the MG plants may have grown taller or bloomed more, this was not an entirely fair test because you used MG in the plants you used Fox Farms in, killing any beneficial micro-organisms that soil may have contained. Also, you kept a steady dose of phosphorus to the MG plants (MG All Purpose Plant Food, 15-30-15) and while failing to switch from Grow Big (6-4-4) to another organic flowering nutrient, you also deprived these plants of this nutrient thus decreasing your overall yeilds.

Also, by measure of taste, I'm absolutly certain the MG stuff didn't taste so great.

I'm sorry if this seems harsh, but an experiment is only as good as its controls, and this one has way to many variables to be accurate at all.
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your wrong, the bud tasted the same! no difference at all. i can make up a zip of each and il bet you cant taste the differece .if the bud tasted like ass then i wouldnt use it next year.and for bloom i used flora nova bloom for all of them.i only used the growbig for veg
 
droppony said:
your wrong, the bud tasted the same! no difference at all. i can make up a zip of each and il bet you cant taste the differece .if the bud tasted like ass then i wouldnt use it next year.and for bloom i used flora nova bloom for all of them.i only used the growbig for veg
Click to expand...

If your trying to make people think their is no taste difference bewtween organic and chem. grown weed, you have no taste buds.

The taste is the main reason lots of growers switched to organics.
Try eating a chem. grown tomato and an organically grown one. You trying to make me/us believe there's no taste difference?
I no longer believe your 3 lb. mg pot plant story.
 
User said:
i wonder could a person who needs bacteria use something like ridex? its bacteria that you add to a septic system.

i overdosed mine with nutes (peters) and the leaves were doin the seashell pretty bad so i flushed them out. tomorrow will be the first watering since then. they are recovering very nicely. I've not tried MG since reading all the opinions on the boards. but i don't have any extra bucks to spend. probably gonna try the piss thing. i also decided to experiment with the old cd's. i have 4 ft. floro's about 4 inches above the plants. i'm using 5 gallon buckets. my bottom leaves were pretty shaded so i placed 3 cd's in each bucket at a 45 degree angle leaning against the sides in a triangle pattern. it really seems to be making a difference. they are having a growth spurt and starting to get really bushy in just a couple of days. its a little hard to say because of the overdose then flushing etc. but i think it helped and its pretty to look at. i also sit with them 3 or 4 times a day and smoke cig's and blow the smoke on them. sorry , don't wanna steal the thread, i got a case of motor fingers.
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Having light shine from below the plant directed upwards does little or no good because leaves don't have light receptors on the undersides of the leaves.
Blowing smoke on plants is very bad. Smoke clogs pores.

Organic nutrients FEED the beneficial micro-organisms in the soil, chem. nutes don't.
 
andrew199@fro said:
interesting post on urine for fertilizer.I think it would work great outdoors but inside under the lights it might start to smell bad right???
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I've always used urine on my outdoor plants, as an additive.
I fill a 5-gal bucket almost all the way with water, add nute's then whiz in it.
I tried it once inside, in my hydro set up.
The urine reacted with the nutrients in the res. and there was some sort of reaction (like a algae bloom but with piss) and my growspace reeked.
I wouldn't add urine indoors in soil either. It just seems like the build-up over months would be too odiferous.
 
droppony said:
your wrong, the bud tasted the same! no difference at all. i can make up a zip of each and il bet you cant taste the differece .if the bud tasted like ass then i wouldnt use it next year.and for bloom i used flora nova bloom for all of them.i only used the growbig for veg
Click to expand...

See, you didn't clarify that in your first posting. The only organic fert. you mentioned you used Grow Big and I assumed that meant for flowering as well, but, I bet I could in fact taste the difference between the two however suttle it may be.

MG is in fact for begginers, in fact I even started with it years ago, but once I tried out differnet ferts, I realized that MG falls short in many areas compared to other nutrients that are specifically strong in a single particular nutrient, intended for certain stages of the plants growth. I am not saying all chemical ferts are bad (that was a joke), but MG has very limited applications in growing cannabis. It is only because it is availible in every grocery store on the planet that people continue to use it.

MG will get your foot in the door to growing but once you gain more experience better things are to be found and put to good use. Also, I guess because I only grow organics I will always defend them as the best in the end. I have personally seen nothing produce better results than things like fish emulsion, kelp meal, bat guano, and Fox Farms Tiger Bloom.
 
RangerDanger said:
Having light shine from below the plant directed upwards does little or no good because leaves don't have light receptors on the undersides of the leaves.
Blowing smoke on plants is very bad. Smoke clogs pores.

Organic nutrients FEED the beneficial micro-organisms in the soil, chem. nutes don't.
Click to expand...
the cd's aren't directly below the plants they are on a 45 degree angle. so the light is pretty much hitting them from the sides. it also seems like it would reflect back down off of the floro hood. i've gotta believe my eyes bro. it went from shaded lower leaves to lighted up lower leaves and is bushing out like crazy. so unless i see some negative signs i'm leaving them there for now.

as for the piss, same thing. if it starts smelling or i see bad signs i will discontinue the piss. buying nutes and the best of soils might not seem like such a big deal to some people but with my monthly checks and my wifes meager salary its all we can do to get by. a buck here and there makes a big difference in our lives.

i recall reading a post somewhere here that smoke was good for the plants thats why i've been doing it. but i'll stop the practice.

i have been using seltzer water, salt free, and they seem to like that.

i very much respect your opinions and advice but like i said, i gotta believe my eyes. i'm not recommending this stuff to anyone else, its my first time so i wouldn't presume to give anyone grow advise. i'm just sharing what i'm doing. thanks for the feedback. it is appreciated. :cheesygrinsmiley:
 
Akornpatch said:
If you use the wifes pee and she's taking hormone replacements would it make more female tendencies? Hmmm....

How about if I just swiped a couple of her pills and added to my water can?
Click to expand...

I seriously doubt that human sex hormones would affect the sex of plants.
And if it did and you smoked them, it might make you cranky every 28 days.
 
i figure these are forums and are here for open debate, others experiances and opinions all make up the forum, therefore if you dont agree, voice your opinion than look at it from all angles :D
 

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