Need some info on DWC

[Buds Buddy]

Hey all, I just bought a 3' x 4' x 6' Propagation Tent & since I don't have a mother plant yet to keep in it I was planning to do a 1-Plant (Auto) in a 5 gallon DWC Bucket in it for now. I've never done DWC or any other method of Hydro. All 6 of my past grows were in soil or coco. I just finished building a grow room that I'll be running 3 XL 6.6 gallon Auto Pots in. Never used those yet either. Planning to start this grow around the 1st week of June so prepping for it now while waiting to harvest my current grow. So any info on DWC would sure help.
So far I have 2- 5 gallon Black Buckets (1 to grow & 1 to switch out nutes with), 1- net pot (opening is almost as wide as the 5 gal. bucket) (should I use a smaller size net pot?), a bag of Hydrotron Stones, a 5" x 1" Aquarium Air Stone (Rated @ 1000 cc/min), an Aquarium Air Pump (Rated 1000 cc/min.) & 10' Tubing. Is this all I need ?
Not sure how you start seeds when growing this way as I usually just plant my seeds in soil or coco. Kind of hard to do that in a basket of rocks ...lol. So do I start them in Rock wool ? Do I put the rock wool in a solo cup or straight in the net pot ?
How does this work ? Do I need to buy anything else ?
I'll be growing 1 Auto Flower / DWC / 3' x 3' x 6' grow area / 2000 watt LED's / 4" fan & filter / As much LST as possible.

 

[TorturedSoul]

If you're only going to be growing one autoflowering plant in a 12 ft.² space, you'll not come anywhere near filling it (IMHO). Why not go with a ten-gallon tote, instead of a little five-gallon bucket? You still won't fill your grow space - but your plant might end up a little larger, maybe. And it'd make things a bit easier when the plant has attained a decent size and is transpiring a lot of moisture each day.

Or you could go with a photoperiodic plant instead of an auto, grab a 23-gallon (or thereabouts) tote for a reservoir, extend the growth phase as long as you like, and come a lot closer to filling the available space. I used to be able to end up with a solid eight square foot canopy that way, years ago, when I was selling bud, and had enough "units" going simultaneously to not worry about how sh!tty the "grams per watt per day" numbers are for a single scrog setup. If I had that part of my life to do over again, I'd have stuck with SOG gardens and made more money, lol.

The size/dimensions of your "net pot," that's really up to you. I just used 18-ounce red Solo cups, lol, and put as many ¼" holes in them as I could. Well before harvest time, the plant's roots would destroy the cup - which was not a problem, as my reservoirs ended up full of roots and the "screen" (I used poultry netting, aka "chicken wire") was solidly affixed to the individual grow spaces' walls, so the plants were solidly supported an in place. Used to cut the plants, one at a time, just below the point where the branching started, then have a buddy help me carry a screen into the dining room and plop it down on the table. Then I'd be up all night, take the next day off work (usually), and repeat a week later. For eight weeks, then take some weeks off, and start again.

In addition to your air pumps and air stones, go to your local pet store or ChinaMart, and pick up an aquarium power head. I think I've still got an image of one...

Alligator Gar 1

• TorturedSoul
• May 6, 2010

Alligator gar. The adults weigh at least 200 pounds. The ultimate fishing fight - they will f*ck...

No, wait, that's not it, lol - that's an alligator gar. Let me try again...

Aquarium Powerhead

• TorturedSoul
• May 6, 2010

Inexpensive aquarium powerheads circulate while injecting air.

Yeah, that's the critter. Aquarium power head. Work way better than the usual air stone stuff, IMHO. Constantly pulls solution up from the lower region of the reservoir and pumps it outward (will have a "directional shield... thing" that you can use to help direct the flow, but it's fine if yours doesn't. There's also an air line running from it up out of your reservoir. Venturi effect causes a great deal of air to get sucked in through that air line and injected into the flow of your nutrient solution. They really work a treat, and will produce a great many bubbles that will be constantly bursting at the air:water interface (surface) of your nutrient solution, which is where the bulk of the oxygenation will take place (so don't fill your reservoir completely full).

Rockwool SUCKS, LMFAO. And that's assuming you don't mind presoaking it in a 4.5 pH solution before using the stuff (if you do so mind, add an entire row of exclamation points to my previous statement ). You can start your plants as per normal, it's no big deal. You're not leaving them in there until they grow into trees, lol - so they won't have huge root systems. I used to use the standard "soil heavily cut with perlite" stuff. When they were a couple weeks old (or less), I'd gently remove them from the container, stick in a bowl of slightly-above-room-temperature water, and gently spin/swish them around until most of the soil/perlite had come off the roots. Then I'd do the same thing under a gentle stream of water until I tired of the activity. I sometimes used straight perlite. Or a mixture of perlite and vermiculite (and, a few times, perlite/vermiculite/peat). While I don't really recommend it, I've used 100% vermiculite, and that worked, too. Whatever I had available. I even used rockwool twice; both times, I told myself, "Never again." The second time, I wasn't lying .

Regardless, I ended up hand watering, a few times, if there wasn't much in the way of root development. No big deal. One reason I loved using the red Solo cups was that the holes I put in them made it dead easy to slip a root or two through when initially installing the plants. The other reason was that I could get a package of 100 of them for under $5, lol.

Here's a thought:

Hempy Solo Cup Germination: A SweetSue Picture Tutorial

Hempy Solo Cup Germination You’ll need: perlite (I prefer coarse) strainer you’re rinse perlite water for diluted nutrients 2 Solo cups (I like the 16 oz size) lid for Solo cup drip saucer to place under cup I use a leather awl to poke the hole and then cut a circle with scissors. You...

www.420magazine.com

 

[Greenthumbs42019]

I use a 3 inch net pot and have managed to reuse them so far, roots do slowly break them. I recently started using GH Rapid Rooters, much easier than rock wool like torturedsoul said. They hold moisture well and are ph neutral I think.

 

[TorturedSoul]

I thought about mentioning those - and the like/competing product, Root Riots - but I got a package four years ago and the things were covered with whitish mold. If not for that, lol, yeah, they worked great.

And I forgot to mention coco coir. However, if it hasn't been rinsed well in the factory, one will need to do that. And, regardless, it really ought to be presoaked in a weak calcium nitrate solution with a pinch of Epsom salt thrown in (IMHO) before using, so it's not quite the same as using something like perlite. But it works, too.

 

[Scottylikesbud]

I grew mine out in the clay pebbles XD
Takes forever, if I had a little peat starter Or something similar any medium that doesn’t hold nutes. I would seed in those, wait a week or two then transplant once the roots develop a lil more. But I haven’t tried this yet. Will try it next seed drop.
That separate nutrient solution is going to save you so much trouble lol. Nice to have ready to go solution on hand instead of mixing it and waiting a couple days to fully dissolve No crazy ph swings that way. That was so stressful a couple months ago for me. Till I did that one simple thing lol.
You will come across many new hydro people complaing about this ph shift not knowing what to do about it.
I would suggest growing in the smaller bucket maybe a month or couple of weeks. then switching to the larger 5 gal bucket once the roots can reach the 5 gal filled with 2 gal nute solution. And just keep it filled at 2 gallons. I’ve noticed exceptional root health this way. As the main point of hydro is having a portion of roots suspended in air so the roots can freely breath.
having fully submerged roots has always led to root problems in my experience. I am doing just fine now doing these two things for hydro, separate nute bucket with its own air stone.
2 gal of solution to 5 gal bucket for root health.
I kinda stopped doing weekly res changes
two weeks or three weeks ago?
probably going to get an earful of crap why I should do it weekly. But I’ve done that before. I find that with my environment.I have no need for that anymore and doing just fine for now.
I ph to 5.8 now. Used to be 6.2 then 6.0, 5.9 but I find 5.9 good still I just like 5.8 more.
But hydro is so easy once you figure all things out for yourself. My thoughts on the topic get the ph and ec down with the water level and the plant does the rest for you. Once you find your sweet zone it is quite fairly easy to maintain those levels in my experience

 

[multiVortex]

Crack seed in water, put into rapid rooter to sprout. Give them a few days from sprout, and then put the rapid rooter in your net pot once you see roots at the bottom of the rapid rooter.

2 gal of solution to 5 gal bucket for root health.
I kinda stopped doing weekly res changes
two weeks or three weeks ago?
probably going to get an earful of crap why I should do it weekly. But I’ve done that before. I find that with my environment.I have no need for that anymore and doing just fine for now.

I would think that your plants probably drink it in that time anyway, right?

From late veg through flower on a single 5gal res dutch bucket setup I have going, it's been drinking the res dry at least once a week. Mid flower was closer to twice a week. Res holds about 4 gallons. I just been adding new water when it's gone, and it's been doing great. Put a new batch of feed in and filled it all the way up yesterday. Once I get to Wednesday or Thursday, it would be time to add another batch.

 

[Scottylikesbud]

I maintain 2 gallons. Usually fill her back up every day or every other day back to the 2 gallon mark. As they can drink a lil over a quart a day now

 

[Scottylikesbud]

If I just let it dry out, the ph and ec shift would be troublesome I’d imagine as plants drink mostly water, and leave the nutes behind as they only can process a set amount each day. And that is pretty small already.
Like from what IVe read if I recall correctly about 70% of plant growth is from the energy created by photosynthesis. Which is light plus leaf plus co2 and water equals sugars for energy and growth. Notice how nutrients are not part of that equation responsible for photosynthesis responsible for all plant growth.

 

[TorturedSoul]

I would suggest growing in the smaller bucket maybe a month or couple of weeks. then switching to the larger 5 gal bucket once the roots can reach the 5 gal filled with 2 gal nute solution.

Unnecessary. Gardener can hand water until the first root extends into the nutrient solution (won't take long), or raise the level of the nutrient solution to the point at which the plant's roots can reach it.

And just keep it filled at 2 gallons. I’ve noticed exceptional root health this way. As the main point of hydro is having a portion of roots suspended in air so the roots can freely breath.

Well... no. The "main point of hydro"ponics is that it's a more efficient way to provide food, water, and oxygen to your plants, via a highly-oxygenated nutrient solution, in a sterile environment, to facilitate a more rapid growth rate and disease-free plants.

having fully submerged roots has always led to root problems in my experience.

That's a symptom of insufficient level of dissolved oxygen in your nutrient solution. Typically experienced when the gardener uses a simple air pump and air stone setup instead of an aquarium power head (alone or in conjunction with the aforementioned items). Often exacerbated by using a reservoir of only five gallons (or less) per plant. Your workaround is working for you (obviously) - but it is merely a workaround instead of a fix. Like, IDK... Like if the radiator on a guy's car becomes partially clogged, and he notices that the car begins to overheat when he runs its air conditioner - so he turns it off, adjusts his temperature control knob/lever to full hot, sets the fan on high, and sees that the car is no longer overheating. He didn't fix his vehicle's issue, just provided a workaround.

 

[Scottylikesbud]

Typically experienced when the gardener uses a simple air pump and air stone setup instead of an aquarium power head

Yeah I was thinking I’d upgrade my air system next because I was thinking along the same lines but wasn’t 100% sure. I thought it was strange that my roots were getting sick when they should be thriving instead lol.

in a sterile environment,

Like a true sterile environment used to build precision space instruments? There are no truly sterile environments in nature. There plenty of things in the air floating on dust. Spores. There everywhere. Then to the stuff wiggling on the plants like yeast. Yeast is everywhere. So you can forget about 100% sterile anything.
but thanks for bringing that oxygen up.
So an aquarium power head? Will look into those.

 

[TorturedSoul]

I should have placed the word sterile in quotes, lol. Of course it's not a true sterile environment, or there would be no living plant in it. I meant no microorganisms, neither pathogenic nor the ones living in soil "in the wild" that serve to "pre-digest" food and excrete/secrete nutrients that are in a form that the plants can use. That's the typical modern way of hydroponics. Some few people do use "organic" nutrients in hydroponic setups, but it's... somewhat complicated and less than optimum, IMHO. With the highly oxygenated environment, there is the chance for "runaway" microbial growth. That kind of thing should probably be done - if done at all in a hydroponic setup - in a passive setup, such as "hempy," where the level of DO at the root zone is somewhat closer to (but still higher than) a soil grow than an actively-aerated environment. Again, IMHO. Others' opinions may differ, of course.

Yeah, I like the aquarium power head devices. No need to toss the air pump and 'stones; while it is "technically possible" to have too much dissolved oxygen in your nutrient solution, the average cannabis gardener is unlikely to ever attain that state.

Last time I bought one, I didn't want to wait on shipping, and the local pet store was closed for the weekend. So I broke down and headed to ChinaMart. Picked up an Aqua Tech brand for around $20. I just looked on Walmart's website (typed aquarium power head into its search box), and they still sell the same model. Price is less than $23. I think it's rated at 170 GPH. It comes with a tube that can be attached to the bottom (liquid intake port). That's meant to connect to an undergravel filter in an actual aquarium, but might be helpful in a DWC reservoir because it means that the nutrient solution is drawn from a point that much lower in the reservoir. <SHRUGS> I tend to attach it. I have used them with reservoir sizes up to 23-gallon. That might be a little large, unless the gardener is growing a "tree," but it definitely supports/encourages a healthy plant - even when you train that plant to produce a solid eight square foot canopy with a method such as SCROG. When plants get sizable like that, they can transpire a (relatively) huge amount of moisture on a daily basis, depending on temperature and airflow. If my reservoirs had only been five-gallon sized, I'd have had to refill them twice a day (and, upon occasion, would have had to do so with a ten-gallon sized one). I routinely added whatever in the way of air pumps and air stone type devices I happened to have on hand, too, and supplemented with up to 15ml of regular 3% strength H₂O₂ for each gallon of liquid that I poured in. Never had a root issue. Probably could have used them as a substitute for spaghetti after harvest, lol, but I never did.

 

[Scottylikesbud]

Yes I was looking some up on the web. And saw a few different models. And was a bit confused by the variety lol especially ones that come with wave generators and further started laughing when someone asked if it was good to have an 800 gph pump for a 10 gallon aquarium.
One of the first answers was something like sure, if you want to make a 10 gallon fish smoothie Oh man I think I’m finally recovering from that bit.
so I started looking at 400 gph models. But you say the 170 is good for 23 gallons. Hmm these pumps sure are a helluva lot more efficient then my 715 gph noise maker. And the submersibles sound super quiet. That’s a plus. Lol if I wanted to put one submersible per my 5 gallon buckets. Which strength would you suggest? As I am planning on germinating a seed once a month in hopes I get harvests once a month 6 months from now lol. And if I were to put a seedling in the same res as a flower. I can’t imagine it would survive. As I typed this I thought I can just grow seedlings separately as I have been then move them lol. Hmm. I was thinking of maybe turning a tote into a bigger res. Maybe just place 4, 5 gallon buckets Into a big enough tote. And like turn the 5 gallon buckets into large net pots by cutting large holes all around it. So when they sit in a tote with a submersible pump. Water is still moving freely through them. But hopefully keeping the separate plant roots separate. So I can take them out and clean or whatever. Is this making sense? Like would this highdea work or Would my roots still suffer from lack of oxygen?

 

[TorturedSoul]

I used a more powerful one - I don't recall exactly, but believe it was something like 240 or 260 GPH - and the plant became a more efficient feeder (IOW, I was able to decrease the nutrient strength with no effects). So the 170 GPH pump isn't the "top" in terms of oxygenation. We're using the aquarium power heads for their oxygenating effect. The pumping is incidental - or, more correctly, merely the mechanism that creates the Venturi effect that draws air in and injects/mixes it with the water flow. But the ratings - such as 170 GPH - are in regards to that flow of liquid, not the amount of air that gets added. Therefore, we've no way to know just how much any given power head adds, or exactly how much more the next larger power head adds. So... not only do I not know what the theoritical upper limit is, I don't have any way of knowing at what rate of flow that upper limit of air injection would be reached. I'm guessing it may well be somewhere north of that "fish puree" setup, lol.

I just put lots of holes in a big Solo cup, jammed it into the hole I'd already cut in the middle of a tote lid, stuck a little plant in the cup whilst filling it with the expanded clay balls, and that was my setup. The more I think about / discuss DWC, the more I want to get back into it. I might do one starting late this Summer or some time in Autumn, depending on my circumstances at that time. If so, maybe I'll go with a smaller reservoir than the ones I used to use. 13 or 18 gallons, perhaps. I still had one of my old 23-gallon ones in the basement, and dug it out a while back. I liked them because, while the lids were opaque, the actual totes were translucent, nearly clear, which allowed me to see the root mass and nutrient solution level. No, I was never troubled with algal growth. <SHRUGS> I don't know why - maybe the hydrogen peroxide I was adding?

 

[Scottylikesbud]

You know, I might be high. But reading back to that 8 foot canopy man, I thought that might be a great idea. But then I envisioned what it would actually look like. There’s no way I’d have room for that beast lol. How’d you get to the water res for refill and what not lol hack a path with your machete XD the challenges that probably come with something that huge man. Must’ve been different

 

[multiVortex]

Hey TS, I'm curious about the powerheads heating up the water. How did you deal with that?

I definitely agree with a venturi putting out a LOT of air. I have it hooked up on my main circulation pump, and I also have a tiny 12w submersible pump in my res that has one too. I don't use the little one much anymore, unless I'm adding something into the mix (Z7, etc) to kind of mix it around a little bit more before it gets sucked around through the main system. I used to let it run 24/7, but found just that little pump would eventually raise my water temp about 3F over what it would have been.

I can't imagine running more of them without a chiller.

I've run "sterile" reservoirs in the past with SM90, but obviously that isn't an option for the foreseeable future. I've been mulling over the idea of using bleach for the next run of this rig (this fall) to run a sterile res. You don't use much, and have to dose every 3 days or so, but that isn't any different than Z7.

My other thought was to cap my return lines and turn them into spray bars. Come from where the pipe enters the bucket, then follow around the edge and back to where it comes in, cap it, and have holes all the way around.

All the supply lines into the buckets now just come in and then through an elbow to the water. Has some waterfall effect, but I'd like a little more.

I really, really, really don't want to have to run a chiller. This is why I'm going to hold the next run until fall. For the summer I'd have to run a chiller, then you throw in the already consumed 900w or so that the setup pulls when everything is on, and yeah, turning that off keeps the bill about where it is once the AC comes on in the next few weeks.

What would be great would be to put a venturi on each buckets supply line, just inside the bucket before the water comes out and back into the bucket. I've looked into it some, but most diy designs were overly complicated and seemed more trouble than they were worth.

I agree that stones get dirty. I chuck mine after each grow. Other than that, I think they work ok for the most part. I wouldn't miss the noise from the air pump though.


I would say that is one advantage DWC has over RDWC, and that's the ability to take the lid off the bucket, raise the plant, and swap out buckets. Of course if you SCROG, that kind of goes out the window unless you have a room and can put it all on some type of pulley that raises the screen and bucket lids all at once. (Someone here does that, and it's really slick.)

 

[multiVortex]

Thinking further on that, a powerhead where the actual motor sits just up out of the water might work for me.

The one that would really work would be an ecotech vortech, which is magnetically driven and the motor sits outside and is connected to the inside impeller part via magnet. That would be ideal, but not for $300 a pump.

I did find a little 3w powerhead, with venturi, that runs about 120gph. Should be plenty for a 13gal bucket that's only 2/3 full. Plus with about a water level 4"-5" from the top of the bucket, that would leave room for a little powerhead in the void. Might heat up the airspace in the bucket though, so I dunno.

I'm certainly intrigued by the idea, just not sure how feasible it would be for my rig. I sure wouldn't be opposed to ditching the stones if possible.

 

[TorturedSoul]

You know, I might be high. But reading back to that 8 foot canopy man, I thought that might be a great idea. But then I envisioned what it would actually look like. There’s no way I’d have room for that beast lol.

Eight square feet, not eight feet square. Had a bedroom with multiple small (400-watt... ish) HID fixtures. Somehow got the idea that I didn't have enough light for the space (true), and that if I set up several partitions with bright white walls and one HID per, with screens (poultry "netting") attached to 20-23 gallon DWC reservoirs on rollers, that it wouldn't be "that big" of a pain in the arse (far, far from true ). Was a long time ago, back when "surfing the Internet" meant things like Newsgroups, Telnet, and gopher servers (used to be lots of those, now there probably aren't more than two or three hundred in the world), and half the people who accessed the Internet had to do so via their local college's VAX/VMS mainframe computers and the like. Dial-up modems were the norm for home users, private(?) corporate entities like CompuServe still existed (but were probably already on the way out, because there were more options than there were in the '80s), etc. Then... Something or other called the "world wide web" came, a little company called NSCA Mosaic created some kind of software called a "browser" for that in the early '90s, a company called America Online thought it could make a little money by passing out computer disks that allowed everyone with a pulse to get online (Still hate that "Endless September" ), and the Internet turned into a big steaming pile of horseshit, spam, and porn... and, half the time, if you speak plainly to someone and they DON'T get their panties in a wad, it's because it's not a real person . I doubt if very many people even remember the old Alt.Drugs.Pot.Cultivation newsgroup, let alone sharing information across multiple dial-up BBS (bulletin board systems) via FidoNet. I can remember when a friend and myself figured out how to "trick" our 300 baud modems into running at 450 bits per second, which allowed us to transfer files 50% faster (but you could still read text on the screen as fast as it appeared, lol). Now... the last time I watched a show on someone's television, I saw a commercial advertising Internet speeds as fast as 100 megabits per second. Which allows people to do mostly nothing at blazing speeds. The actual average rate of useful information exchange is probably still about the same as it was back then .

Er... I forget the question.

How’d you get to the water res for refill and what not lol hack a path with your machete XD the challenges that probably come with something that huge man. Must’ve been different

Nah, it wasn't that bad. Had little wooden rolling "caddies" for each plastic tote, with the chicken wire screen attached to the top. That raised the reservoirs a few inches off the ground. Could use one of those little hand-siphon kerosene (etc.) transfer gizmos to drain a reservoir or, if I couldn't remember where I put it, just grab a short length of hose, fill it with water, stick one end in a reservoir and the other into the drain pan, and take my thumb off the end and let gravity do the work like siphoning gasoline out of the car that won't start so you can put it in the one that will. I was a lot younger then (and had a regular paycheck). Probably seems a lot bigger than it is. Each setup was slightly smaller than a 3'x3' grow tent - and plenty of people go WAY bigger than that. You could do the same thing only slightly smaller with a 250-watt HPS across five square feet (or a tick smaller) or whatever. Or a comparably-sized LED setup, of course.

 

[TorturedSoul]

Hey TS, I'm curious about the powerheads heating up the water. How did you deal with that?

I didn't, lol. <SHRUGS> They probably warm the nutrient solution a degree or two over time, IDK. But I never placed my hand against a reservoir (or stuck a finger in a sample) and thought, "Gee, that's warm." Having moderately-sized reservoirs probably helped, but... I've read about people sticking frozen water bottles into their reservoirs, or getting something like a 1/10-horsepower chiller, and kind of wonder. I don't live in the tropics, but it gets hot here in the Summer. IDK. Keep the level of oxygenation up, up, UP and you'll probably be fine, too. That's how you keep minnows alive during a hot day of fishing. Put a good oscillating fan on the plant(s) to aid in transpiration (and a decent exhaust setup to move all that humid air to somewhere else) and plants will self-cool. Any plant, not just cannabis - an acre of corn will transpire 3,000 to 4,000 gallons of water per day, and a full-sized oak tree will transpire something like 40,000 gallons per year. And they're just growing in plain old-fashioned soil, LMFAO. High temperatures bother ME far more than they've bothered my plants. I get pretty miserable when it gets above 70F... The colder it gets, you just add more clothes - but when it's 90F, you've already stripped down to... hair, and you're pouring sweat just from the extreme activity of... sitting there, FAWK!

I'm not going to respond to the rest of your post right now. Am having connectivity problems and had to get online by tethering to my cell phone. And it's very much NOT unlimited data . Might get back on the forum tonight, but hopefully someone else will have taken care of you before then.

 

[multiVortex]

Thanks for that. My temps are good, but when it comes to water temp I get a bit freaky over 74F. High water temp, bacteria, blah blah.

Hydroguard and Z7 are a great 1-2 punch against the bad stuff, but still leaves a bit of a mess from the good bacteria culture.

 

[Bobthe420Builder]

Holly crap


Did u guys scare off the OP