Random Pictures From And Ramblings Of A Fool

[Papageno]

I noticed also we are in the same state. I ain't tried yet because I know many growers who will give me clones but ...many shops around sell 2 foot tall clones. 20 bucks guaranteed you can take it home and clone it how you like. Not sure what county you are in but the urban areas all have clones on the shelf for cheap. I think cheap for what you supposedly get.

My buddy wants to bring me clones but I want to grow out my seeds...first world problems.

 

[Dwight Monk]

Think the Dispensary here in town are $30 now for the Baby Clones that are less than two feet tall (think there is one other place now that sells them, most don't or just sell seeds), sometimes they have Monsters for a couple hundred 5 feet tall and not in Flower yet wouldn't work for me unless I put it outside . The Dairy Queen and Deep Purple from my first go round were Clones from the Dispensary, now with my breeding experiments and buying too many (they all sound good) I probably have more than I could grow in the rest of my lifetime, well maybe not quite that bad but definitely years w/o buying any.

 

[Dwight Monk]

My tester plant from the Breeding Experiment 2.0, hoping it's a more dominant trait for those seeds (little 15" plant got me over 100 seeds, don't take much):

005.JPG

• Dwight Monk
• Nov 13, 2018

 

[AngryBird]

Good one monk

 

[Papageno]

Also Dwight, people do this totaly wrong all the time because they solve the wrong problem. You are solving the wrong problem.

I say all the time if you grow in a 5x5 and can't keep up let's chat... so lets chat.


I show off this one plant all the time that I grew that was nice. This one plant was 1 of my legal 4. There were 2 males and another female that was messed up genetics and wouldn't grow for me. I did backflips, flushes you name it and nothing. Grown right next to this awesome plant on the same program another plant that wouldn't work at all... nor would it's clones. Same exact problems so not my medium ...until it went outside. That is a side story.

But like you I didn't know until bloom so I only got 1/4 the tent on that bloom. Sounds familiar? But that one plant yielded this.

12_5

• Papageno
• Mar 5, 2016

Which is enough to get to the next bloom for most. And that is 1/4 of the SCROG.

So...to actually solve your problem...

Grow one guaranteed mother somewhere. And only grown 3 in bloom at a time. The problem isn't that 4 is not enough it is that you are being greedy.

If instead of rolling the dice you grew 3 guaranteed in a scrog and got 4 times the yield above at almost the same time... you would be very happy.

The point is instead of blooming 4 who knows what bloom 3 absolute and veg them 2 weeks longer and you have guaranteed success.

People try to be the fastest grower with the most yield...who cares?

Grow what you need. The way you need it.

I make a ton of mistakes on every grow but I have such a huge cushion because I ain't maxing my skills ever. I ride easy so I can manage. Why push it?

By the way yer plant looks tasty.

 

[Papageno]

Now let's chat about breeding. Where are you at?

Is that an F1?

If not can you outline what your back breeding method was you used? I am rusty as it was in the 90s when I was doing this.

Doing 4 plants at a time it is statistically unreasonable and unrealistic to bring to fruition a true new line. It would take serrious random luck at least 6 but more like 8 times being extremely lucky in a row... or 15 years.

Are you trying to make a strain? Do you know what that means? I am not trying to be an ass just statistically at 4 plants a grow it is very difficult to back breed traits that are hard to find. What is your goal?

 

[Papageno]

Ok I get stuck explaining this one often enough. One of the points of this journal is a place for me to bury random thoughts with links and stuff...my own stickies. So ...

Below is a link I found that does a good job reducing the concept of cross breeding to the most simple explanation I have found.

In short it is fine to do whatever but nothing counts officially if it can't be reproduced. If it has not known traits and can not be distinguished what is it? Even if it is very special if that can not be made again it was just a thing that was.

To become a strain means something. To be entered in the cannabis cup you have to be able to put down 20 seeds and get the same thing up 20 times.

To do that takes years of breeding with a good setup if you know what you are doing.

An F1 is special. An F1 is the first generation, as explained in the link, of a true cross breed. All F1s from all plant species show increased vigor and faster growth and higher yields. That is why so many are sold ... that and breeding them is useless. All you get without properly back crossing is random genetics. Nothing which can be reproduced. Sometimes worse and actually bad stuff. Not often.

But F1s...also...are always identical. So if I make some today and some in a year they are the same.

But after that you have to back breed years to stabalize something. And if you want a recessive trait to become dominant you need lots of grow space.

Even dominate traits take a lot of grow space.

You will want to be able to pop 20 seeds at a time running 4 experiments. Then you can create something in about 4 years.

Best of luck!

Plant and Soil Sciences eLibrary

 

[Papageno]

All right so I have a question for ya'll.


My buddy needs a light. He has a new recreational license and a 45 ft container and bought a bunch of budget cheap LED lights that may not flower well. I sure dont know myself.

I have all in all 1 extra light right now. At first I told him he could borrow my 400W HPS to add some spectrum in the middle of the container.

Now I was just thinking. I wonder if my 2 140W Mars 300 and my 400W HPS would be fine for me and he can have my top of the line setup. I bet I can bloom fine running my 3 lights. Then he can put my 1000W DE that overdrive to 1150 in his place.

My wife is like make him go buy his own. But he is a total miser and went out and bought like 15 of these shit lights I think. He does stuff like this then comes and asks me will it work.

I think I should use my LEDs and my magnetic ballast 400 from 20 years ago. Let my freind use my good stuff.

Am I crazy? I think in could pull decent flower with the 2 LEDs and a 400w HPS.

 

[Dwight Monk]

Now let's chat about breeding. Where are you at?

Is that an F1?

If not can you outline what your back breeding method was you used? I am rusty as it was in the 90s when I was doing this.

Doing 4 plants at a time it is statistically unreasonable and unrealistic to bring to fruition a true new line. It would take serrious random luck at least 6 but more like 8 times being extremely lucky in a row... or 15 years.

Are you trying to make a strain? Do you know what that means? I am not trying to be an ass just statistically at 4 plants a grow it is very difficult to back breed traits that are hard to find. What is your goal?

I'll let you tell me what you would call it probably a F-up .....I just have a hard time culling plants, be it difficult ladies or when I get a male so was experimenting. One above is a Blue Widow Female clone (before that one went stupid as two year old clones of clones of clones etc..) that I crossed with my first experiment which was a Dairy Queen Female clone from a Dispensary clone crossed with a Blueberry Male I had (so that one from first experiment an F-1 right? Not sure that one above is still an F-1 technically or not as I don't quite grasp all that nomenclature yet). F-2 is only if you cross with an original Mother (or Father)? As I have seeds I made from both "strains" as I popped two and got one of each sex, so not sure if that still considered back crossing or if that just an IBL, or it's one of them "kinda sorta not really" things or all out "pollen chucking"

 

[Papageno]

I am all for breeding mutts...I am.

You have to realize though what a mud blood is. As long as you understand what you have... it can not be duplicated and may have some hard to understand recessive problems. You are fine.

I don't look down on farting around but you can create your own problems staying too far.


The best thing to do when you find something you like is to try and establish that trait by breeding it into the mainline creating a strain.

The level of stupid phenos is due to the instability of a line.

It is easier to grow F1s than anything else.

The best thing to go after is cloning a nice F1. But unless you have one of the parents yet screwed after that.

If you want to have fun get 2 lines that are strong with low pheno problems. Then make yourself an F1. All of those seeds will be consistent and grow faster and yield more than the parents.

Most seed banks will tell you on the web site this is an F1 as it is great advertising.

Most of the food we eat comes from F1 stock because of the vigor alone. All corn is F1.

 

[Dwight Monk]

All right so I have a question for ya'll.


My buddy needs a light. He has a new recreational license and a 45 ft container and bought a bunch of budget cheap LED lights that may not flower well. I sure dont know myself.

I have all in all 1 extra light right now. At first I told him he could borrow my 400W HPS to add some spectrum in the middle of the container.

Now I was just thinking. I wonder if my 2 140W Mars 300 and my 400W HPS would be fine for me and he can have my top of the line setup. I bet I can bloom fine running my 3 lights. Then he can put my 1000W DE that overdrive to 1150 in his place.

My wife is like make him go buy his own. But he is a total miser and went out and bought like 15 of these shit lights I think. He does stuff like this then comes and asks me will it work.

I think I should use my LEDs and my magnetic ballast 400 from 20 years ago. Let my freind use my good stuff.

Am I crazy? I think in could pull decent flower with the 2 LEDs and a 400w HPS.

Spend the money on a Rec license (and all the headaches/money involved if you going by their rules to a T), and then go skimpy on the lights? Ouch, that not good. Be different if they hadn't grown 3x + what was consumed last year (and that just estimate based off of "legal grows"), problem with them giving licenses to anyone that wanted to fork out the money. As right now Dispensaries can be pretty picky and if they selling zips for under $100 (price includes the 20% sin tax) they not paying the growers much for a zip.

 

[Dwight Monk]

Yeah I'm just messing around and have no intention of trying to sell them or go into the breeding side of things, as I'm too clueless for that . I had a Black Columbian OG that I tried to reveg (first go round with trying that) and then I had a aphid infestation that messed things up some more. Popped two Ace of Spades and got two Males grrr so I let the healthiest one pollinate that Black as another experiment, as only had bought a 5 pack of those Ace of Spades, and it a discontinued line so I only have 3 left to try again someday (think Subcool lost some of those strains in the fires from what I read). Got a couple of the 1.0 experiment backcross (or whatever it is called ) that I threw into Flower to see what I got there, they only 12-15" tall.

Grow one guaranteed mother somewhere. And only grown 3 in bloom at a time. The problem isn't that 4 is not enough it is that you are being greedy.

Back to that older post w/o quoting the whole thing, hopefully not confusing you or everyone else for that matter . I'm just trying to stay close to their "rules", as I'm my old lady's caregiver and I don't need any flipping headaches/problems, but if I'm not selling it and only give it away to folks over 21 I doubt they going to mess with me really. My adult son still lives here, so he does my yard work and I keep him covered on smoke (10 years in a Lumber Mill and being a blue collar dog for 25+ years my body is thrashed, and doing some yardwork like that make me hurt for weeks and weeks afterwords), so I mostly just smoke to take the edge off of my body pains or to knock me out so I can sleep a few hours, as I need my wits about me taking care of her. So I don't technically need a lot (or at least for me) and it more of a "hobby" as I've been stuck at home 23/7 for quite a few years now. I had two outside ladies this year, and those two put me above the "technical limit" of 8 zips allowed in a residence, so give some away from time to time to try and stay under that (they like my "tips" at the Espresso stand I frequent daily ). My two outside ladies I had this year:

003.JPG

• Dwight Monk
• Oct 9, 2018

005.JPG

• Dwight Monk
• Oct 9, 2018

001.JPG

• Dwight Monk
• Oct 9, 2018

 

[Papageno]

Trust me I know...this is totaly classic actually top of the line hilarity.

I wont do too much detail but this guy is from let's say New York with a few houses in places I wont name. Got backing by people when the laws changed. Came out here and bought hundreds of acres in multiple areas of the state. Put up monster out door grows. And has survived but just barely. He never grew before. This is true.

When I first met him, and we broke that ice and talked about it, he had the most newb questions...and believe you me...if I am talking to you about weed I know very fast how much bull shit you are.

So I explained a bunch and he went away. Fast forward a few years and everything I have told him or shown him for free has been better than the advice his employees who have been growing their whole lives give him. So he comes to me after making glorious mistakes on 200 plants at a time. "I got 200 here fine and 200 right next to them same strain with problems..."

This time he realized after he spent all his money...he has employees and such...that he bought shit lights.

I could help this guy...all the growers in the state probably hate him. He is a cool guy after you get to know him but he is rich. Like real rich I think...possibly related to people I Russia and associated like that...I don't know.

I just help the guy out when he asks like anyone.

Last night we were chatting about no drain soil. This guy here showed him no drain which I used to do. It isnt hard but he sees this guys "grow room"...one of the bigger ones in the state.

He has everything in big totes no holes on compost soil watering like one a werk or something.

I was like yeah I do that in fabric with drains.

He doesn't want any evaporation. He wants low maintenance just send people there once a week.

So he was asking me how many plants he should put in these totes...LOL.

I start explaining well it is about the lights and the space....and that is how we got onto his lights.

Anywho...I probably shouldn't help the outsider who never grew before it was legal and set up here and paid people to make him who he is. But I have to be nice to the guy.

I gain nothing by screwing him over and I have a lot to gain by being the only one in the state really helping him.

He just flew in a guy from the east coast to do his constrution work because he needs people he can trust he tells me. Just a hot mess going on here.

I just win. And dont have to worry about 4 plants being too little.

 

[Papageno]

So...I took a clone from that monster a few years back and reveged it outside just to see what she'd do. I had no cover so she rotted at the first real rain before she was ready but I also had no plans to harvest her, I just liked the purdy flowers.

New_growth_Start

• Papageno
• Jul 12, 2016

reborn

• Papageno
• Jul 21, 2016

New_growth11

• Papageno
• Jul 12, 2016

81_revive

• Papageno
• Jul 29, 2016

inground

• Papageno
• Aug 10, 2016

Rebound9_3big

• Papageno
• Sep 3, 2016

DSCF30413

• Papageno
• May 31, 2017

Which originally bloomed in the tent on a fast turn like this

One_of_em

• Papageno
• Jun 13, 2016

And I was a lollipop clone from this.

RB1

• Papageno
• Feb 27, 2016

Which was an unknown freebie I strongly bieleve to be Rasberry Cough.

 

[Papageno]

I did convince him to go tote in tote with drain holes and rocks in between for drainage...but absolutely no to fabric pots! He tried them outdoors LOL.

That's is what newbs do. They fail at something and whole sale change because now they know something they just learned is better.

 

[Papageno]

You mentioned something about staying legal.

So the real deal is we don't pay enough taxes. Don't be fooled by the proppganda... there are not enough police.

They have shit to do. They dont randomly bang down doors. They need to go after not only criminals but people that are easy to prove with hard evidence on people who matter. They will do a minimal amount of pre break your door down investigation.

If they do any real investigation into me they will not want to waste time comming after me. They have shit to do. If they want to harass me and fine me because I grow well and and show in court i have documented that my green thumb is so good they can all suck my bawllz a judge will laugh this out of court. I cant grow 1 plant by the 8 oz law. So they take me to court and a precedent gets set that you can have 4 pounds until cured and any unopened jar doesn't count toward the 8 open.

This is America and Oregon is on my side.

They have shit to do and criminals to go after. They can request my address any time and come visit.

 

[Dwight Monk]

You mentioned something about staying legal.

So the real deal is we don't pay enough taxes. Don't be fooled by the proppganda... there are not enough police.

They have shit to do. They dont randomly bang down doors. They need to go after not only criminals but people that are easy to prove with hard evidence on people who matter. They will do a minimal amount of pre break your door down investigation.

If they do any real investigation into me they will not want to waste time comming after me. They have shit to do. If they want to harass me and fine me because I grow well and and show in court i have documented that my green thumb is so good they can all suck my bawllz a judge will laugh this out of court. I cant grow 1 plant by the 8 oz law. So they take me to court and a precedent gets set that you can have 4 pounds until cured and any unopened jar doesn't count toward the 8 open.

This is America and Oregon is on my side.

They have shit to do and criminals to go after. They can request my address any time and come visit.

If it was just me I wouldn't worry or give a flying flock, but have to think about the old lady's care (but I can be a worry wart by nature or selective things I can). Did a lot of stupid crap when younger (hindsight as didn't seem so stupid at the time), early 80's drove up to Alaska with a friend to work on his grandma's set net site and we about got hung by our nuts coming into AK from Canada, so yeah odds are if I was going to get popped would have been in the late 70's and 80s . Had a possession charge as a teen in the late 70's, was sweating bullets and the judge said $40, after I saw a guy get fined triple that for throwing a lit cig out the window of car, so I then knew how OR was about these things unless you were dealing then a different ball of wax.

I started in grow cabinets couple years ago and then put insulation/walls/ceiling floor in my shed, and it still gets too cold/hot in the shed sometimes, need to have someone wire it for a bigger breaker as I'm right on the cusp of it kicking out if I add anything. So have a grow cabinet in the spare room/sunroom, do my experiments in there, but have to move the ladies with the rest out in shed once pollinated as the old lady don't like the smell when they start to stink later in flower (she from bible belt and a police family background and all that, but I treat her good and take care of her so she cuts me some slack and knows I use it for pain as I hate pain pills as they put me in a fog that lasts for days, we just have to smoke outside in carport/shed so she don't smell it).

 

[Papageno]

This is sort of funny we got to here on the legal thing...

Because when the law came out honestly...the first thing I thought fk I can't grow one plant out and be legal...WTF!

I accepted very quickly I couldn't be th only one who would be illegal 1/4 through the first grow.

And straight up I thought...8 cant get me to tuesday... that ain't getting me to another grow...this whole thing is a lie and a setup.

So I been waiting for it to happen. Somone is going to get busted because of some Ahole neighbors and they will fight back. The law is set up to make us all criminals still.

I thought this immediately but don't look a gift horse in the mouth.

I concentrate and keep it as small as possible. But they will be rewriting that law when they go after somone like me.

 

[Papageno]

Oh and let's see...I done straight up closet, DIY space, handed down cabinet, personal built cabinets, tent, house, outdoor ... for my spaces.

For indoor I had a house where my bloom space could hold around 50 but I tried to operate around 43ish perpetual. Strain and pheno dependent when they finish. I had a day job at the time. Can only do so much. I was harvesting all weekend long. Shutting that down overnight was one of my biggest losses.

The things you do in yer 20s in California ...

 

[AngryBird]

Hi V. I
I just have to say I enjoy your stories from life.
Why not copy paste them on a document. Write some more around each one and voilà short stories.
You have alot to give to others